OSAS being False Doctrine!

[CadyandZoe]

It's imply a seal of approval, a seal of acceptance.

No, it is more than that. The seal of the H.S. is like a decree, sealed by a king. And the decree stands as written. No one can open it and change the terms or the will of the king.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Oh wow, such strong words against the OSAS crowd. I've retracted strong words before.

Anyone that is mature in the scriptures knows there is support for both OSAS and losing one's salvation. And since both contradict each other in both teachings, both are correct and both are wrong. Another way to perceive the scriptures is necessary. A black and white, one way or the other, is a false teaching.

The truth is that God draws in any he choses and none can snatch them out of his hand. And that means that the devil (the tempter) cannot snatch them nor man can snatch them out of God's hand. But they can still choose to leave God and lose their salvation. And that idea satisfies both doctrines.

How can someone lose what he doesn't have? What is salvation and when does it take place?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nice double speak!

We can sin all we want and still be saved... as long as we don't "live" in sin... gotcha.

So, in your view what happens to the Christian that decides to not quit sinning...???

decides to not stop sinning? Who decides this? I would love to meet these people. I have never met one with your

No, I know people who claim to be Christians... OSAS peoples.... who do sinful things on a regular basis and they think they are still saved cause the false teachers they sit under (like you) tell them they can never ever never never lose their salvation not matter how they live.

I do not tell them that, God tells them that. When he said he would never leave nor forsake them. When he said they will never die. When he said they are sealed with the spirit.. etc etc

People living in sin and claiming to still be saved cause they believe what the false teachers tell them... is a real thing.

once again, A child of God can not live in sin. because he has been born of God..

what part of that do you not get?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Exactly! Those that abide in Christ, baring fruit, and endure until the end of their lives are the ones actually saved.

This is not a hard subject at all... one has to get help from the devil to misunderstand this!




The Lord is forcing you to walk with Him???

Suppose a young Christian guy decides to watch some porn on the internet... that is sinful behavior, so is the Lord going to FORCE that person to not do this to keep them walking with Him?

The fact of the matter is, WE have a part to play in our own salvation because God created us in His Own Image, which mean we have free will.

The Lord is not FORCING anybody to not go off in to sin and turn away from Him! We need to decide are we going to turn from darkness and live for the Lord, or will we choose darkness over the Lord and live after the pleasure of the flesh in this life?

The Lord will let you go either way, so let's choose wisely and walk with Him!

Your argument is based on the free will of man, which is not relevant to salvation. As Paul says, salvation does NOT depend on the will of man.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Brother, I’m confused....I have a friend who is Born Again, she tells me that I should confess my sins daily to the Lord and ask forgiveness?

Now, I know in my heart, when I was birthed in the Spirit, that Jesus took all of my sin and that they are hidden in him..

What’s with all this confessing of sins on a daily basis?

It doesn’t feel right in my Spirit?

I’m praying that the Lord reveals the truth through you to my Spirit?

And God’s Living word says.

1 Peter 2:24​

24 He took our sins on himself, giving his body to be nailed on the tree, so that we, being dead to sin, might have a new life in righteousness, and by his wounds we have been made well.


We have been made anew ,we are a new creation in Christ....that old man died, when we were birthed in the Spirit, were in the new man....

Even though that old man died....we still have this flesh that we are left with?

​

◄ Romans 6:6 ►

​

Verse (Click for Chapter) King James Bible Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. New King James Version knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. American Standard Version knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him , that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin; Berean Study Bible We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. Douay-Rheims Bible Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer.

the reason we confess our sins is we acknowledge them.. If we do not acknowledge them, we are basically hiding them, or trying to run from our sin, and we will have trouble stopping that sin or those sins..


We do not beg forgiveness. Jesus already forgave them. We acknowledge the sin to God (we come to the throne of Grace) and basically name them, and thank God for forgiving us, and asking for his help to overcome..

that is how I do it anyway

 

[Ritajanice]

the reason we confess our sins is we acknowledge them.. If we do not acknowledge them, we are basically hiding them, or trying to run from our sin, and we will have trouble stopping that sin or those sins..


We do not beg forgiveness. Jesus already forgave them. We acknowledge the sin to God (we come to the throne of Grace) and basically name them, and thank God for forgiving us, and asking for his help to overcome..

that is how I do it anyway

When I know I have done wrong..I say sorry to God from my heart.

Then I start over....with the Holy Spirit walking in front of me.

 

[Ritajanice]

the reason we confess our sins is we acknowledge them.. If we do not acknowledge them, we are basically hiding them, or trying to run from our sin, and we will have trouble stopping that sin or those sins..

Yes..I ask the Holy Spirit to help me overcome bad thoughts.

This is when the renewing of our minds come into play..

 

[CadyandZoe]

Er... the whole point of this discussion is that after getting set free from sin when one gets born again, so fall away and go back to living in sin and are no longer free from sin meaning they are no longer in right standing with God because they turned and walked away.

One cannot continue in sin or go back to living in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord. Those that think this is possible are adherents of greasy grace peddling a license to sin.

The Lord tells up to NOT be entangle again in the bondage of sin!

Well said. I agree with everything you said here. But I suspect that you are talking about those who claim to be born again. Those who believe the gospel, become a disciple and follower of Jesus, and are actually born again would never do what you just said. Security is not guaranteed to everyone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Er... all the OSAS peoples

Is this the fault of the doctrine or those who misunderstand and/or misconstrue it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When I know I have done wrong..I say sorry to God from my heart.

Then I start over....with the Holy Spirit walking in front of me.

if you did not do this. what do you think would be the end result?

 

[Ritajanice]

if you did not do this. what do you think would be the end result?

God would start ignoring me....?

As soon as I say I’m sorry , I’m back in fellowship with God.. @Eternally Grateful

I’ve had to learn this, the Holy Spirit has helped me understand it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God would start ignoring me....?

More like you will stop ignoring your sin and keep doing it. and you will eventually either have to start hiding it because you are not healed of it. or you start to ignore the fact it is even sin

 

[Ritajanice]

More like you will stop ignoring your sin and keep doing it. and you will eventually either have to start hiding it because you are not healed of it. or you start to ignore the fact it is even sin

The Holy Spirit won’t allow me to ignore my sin....he gets me to that place of understanding.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Holy Spirit won’t allow me to ignore my sin....he gets me to that place of understanding.

true, But you can become dull to it. if you keep ignoring it.. You will just be chastened and maybe not know why

 

[Ritajanice]

true, But you can become dull to it. if you keep ignoring it.. You will just be chastened and maybe not know why

Yes, I agree...I was in ignorance of it ..and quite honestly Brother...I’ve not long realised how ignorant I was...you see the enemy wanted me to stay in my ignorance.

God had other plans...Praise His Holy Name.

Thank you Lord for speaking to me through EG...

 

[dev553344]

How can someone lose what he doesn't have? What is salvation and when does it take place?

God decides who is saved. Not you are me or anyone else. Keep that in mind, who the authority and judge are. Jesus is Christ.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, it is more than that. The seal of the H.S. is like a decree, sealed by a king. And the decree stands as written. No one can open it and change the terms or the will of the king.

Well then it's all settled then!

Christians can sin all they want and they'll still fo to Heaven... according to you.

God's Word contains warnings to Christians that if they sin, they are no longer abiding IN Christ and are cut off. Jesus says this in John 15 so you can argue with Him about it if you'd like.

decides to not stop sinning? Who decides this?

It's happening all over the place... you got yer "gay christians" who are doing this... you got yer "I like to drink booze christians", the "I like to smoke weed christians".... and according to OSAS doctrine these folks can engage in all the sin they so desire and still be saved and go to Heaven!

You cannot claim to be OSAS and then suddenly say they can't as that is double speak...

The OSAS peoples claim one's actions do not cause them to be unsaved, so to the OSAS people.... it's all good if one wants to be a "gay christian" or a "I like to drink booze christian", or a "I like to smoke weed christian" or even one of those "child molesting christians".... cause it's all good to you people as long as they ever had a moment of faith, their saved! Right?

I do not tell them that, God tells them that. When he said he would never leave nor forsake them. When he said they will never die. When he said they are sealed with the spirit.. etc etc

There ya go again.... accepting just a few happy vereses and ignoring the rest of God's Word.... to turn the grace of God in to lawlessness! Greasy grace changers!

Apparently, the greasy grace OSAS peoples claim Titus is teaching works based salvation in this scripture:

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Titus... being led directly by the Holy Ghost to write these words... is NOT teaching OSAS doctrine!
This is why the OSAS peoples like to ignore this verse among many others since it doesn't fit their eisgesis (preconceived ideas not taught by the Lord's Word)

once again, A child of God can not live in sin. because he has been born of God..

what part of that do you not get?

So your claim is... one somebody gets born again....it's literally impossible for them to sin???

Your argument is based on the free will of man, which is not relevant to salvation. As Paul says, salvation does NOT depend on the will of man.

God says, if a man sows to the flesh they SHALL reap corruption which is to be separated from Him due to their sin.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Security is not guaranteed to everyone.

So you do not believe in eternal security... aka once saved always saved (OSAS)

Security is only applicable to those abiding IN Christ baring fruit unto righteousness.
When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be in right standing with the Lord once again according to His Word.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And sadly all the OSAS peoples always go... blah, blah, blah, nobody can lose their salvation... blah, blah, blah... even if they were to live in sin... blah, blah, blah

Is this the fault of the doctrine

It is the false of the false doctrine of OSAS which is not biblical because it's not based on ALL the Lord said on the subject of salvation.

The OSAS peoples frequently engage in double speak like liberals to the political arena.

One one hand they claim "it's not possible to lose your salvation" and then when someone points out some claiming to be Christians are living in sin, then they say "no man, Christians cannot live in sin and be saved"

The flip flop[ping is quite comical actually.

 

[CadyandZoe]

God decides who is saved. Not you are me or anyone else. Keep that in mind, who the authority and judge are. Jesus is Christ.

I get that and I agree. I raised the question because the timing of salvation is a critical concept to understand and discuss the question.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well then it's all settled then!

Christians can sin all they want and they'll still fo to Heaven... according to you.

According to me? No. And once again you decided not to address the statement I made. I wasn't the only person to describe the meaning and significance of the seal. Would you care to address that point specifically?

The OSAS peoples claim one's actions do not cause them to be unsaved, so to the OSAS people.... it's all good if one wants to be a "gay christian" or a "I like to drink booze christian", or a "I like to smoke weed christian" or even one of those "child molesting christians".... cause it's all good to you people as long as they ever had a moment of faith, their saved! Right?

Not necessarily. OSAS is true. The fact that some people use this truth as an excuse to sin is on them. What people do with a doctrine has no bearing on the veracity of the doctrine.

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness.

The verse you quoted is found in Romans 11. "Repentance" means "change the mind." And so when it says that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, Paul is saying that God will never change his mind about them. If God chooses to save someone he will not change his mind.

So you do not believe in eternal security... aka once saved always saved (OSAS)

I do affirm the doctrine of eternal security.

Security is only applicable to those abiding IN Christ baring fruit unto righteousness.

On the contrary, abiding in Christ is a signal a marker of those whom God is saving. You have reversed cause and effect. The cause is the grace of God and the effect is that one will persevere in faith and abide in Christ.

And sadly all the OSAS peoples always go... blah, blah, blah, nobody can lose their salvation... blah, blah, blah... even if they were to live in sin... blah, blah, blah

Not all of us do that. I think your argument is against hypocrites. Not against those who affirm OSAS.

It is the false of the false doctrine of OSAS which is not biblical because it's not based on ALL the Lord said on the subject of salvation.

Sadly, you are ignoring all the verses on salvation to quote and discuss all the verses pertaining to judgment and damnation.

The OSAS peoples frequently engage in double speak like liberals to the political arena.

Using double-speak is due to a character flaw, which is not a doctrinal issue.

The flip flop[ping is quite comical actually.

Let's stick to the subject matter and try to interact to the points that I and the others are making.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Would you care to address that point specifically?

Why yes... Christians can sin all they want and they'll still fo to Heaven... according to those that believe in OSAS. (there, I took you out of it)

What people do with a doctrine has no bearing on the veracity of the doctrine.

It certainly doers when OSAS peoples go around telling everyone that it's not possible to lose their salvation!

Paul is saying that God will never change his mind about them. If God chooses to save someone he will not change his mind.

Correct... and when Jesus says ion John 15 that those not abiding IN Him will be cut off and cast in to the fire.... He's not changing His mind out that either.

According to Jesus, salvation is conditional upon not living for self, but living for the Lord abiding IN Him baring fruit. It's curtains for those that don't abide in Christ and go back to sin

2 Corinthians 5:15 says….Jesus died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again.

The cause is the grace of God and the effect is that one will persevere in faith and abide in Christ.

And the OSAS peoples claim even if one goes back to living in sin they will be saved.

If they don't say that, then they are admitting that OSAS is false doctrine.

Sadly, you are ignoring all the verses on salvation

No, I see and agree with the verses promising salvation... then unlike the OSAS peoples, I keep reading and I see where God's promises are conditional.... the OSAS peoples don't accept the Whole Counsel of God because they continually claim the rest of God's Word is irrelevant and we don't need the rest of His word... all we need is the few happy verses.

Using double-speak is due to a character flaw, which is not a doctrinal issue.

Than it's settled... ALL that enmbrace OSAS have character flaws because they have chosen to reject all portions of God's Word that does not agree with their false doctrine

Rejecting all of God's Word is actually sin, but feel free to call it a "character flaw" as to not hurt the feelings of the OSAS peoples. They do seem to be quite squishy and sensitive as they get their feelings hurt real easy.

Let's stick to the subject matter and try to interact to the points that I and the others are making.

It's a credible observation.... OSAS peoples be flip floppin as they just can seem to be stoppin the floppin