OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Big Boy Johnson]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

Here's one that most definitely DOES Speak Against the Eternal Security of the believer

Galatians 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Welcome to Christianity Board.
Your topic may garner much heat, stay strong !

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Always! Thanks!

I posted this on another board I'm a part of that has lots of OSAS adherents and it was... crickets!

When I posted a follow-up message asking why none in the OSAS community had any refutation for this they started sayin stuff about me (which I don't care if they do) as diversions but still kept side stepping the points being made.

So, it seems like Gal 6:7,8 is the kryptonite of OSAS doctrine since they can't say we do reap what we sow which indicates OSAS isn't true... or say we don't reap what we so which would be mocking God according to verse 7.

 

[BlessedPeace]

As one wise sister-brother said recently, oh boy, do we have to go through this again?

No.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It's actually a very important topic as OSAS is a major stumbling block for many leading them to believe they can live in sin and still be saved which is not the case.

There are some very simple concepts taught in God's Word that prove it's not a biblical doctrine so it's a very important topic of discussion

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

Here's one that most definitely DOES Speak Against the Eternal Security of the believer

Galatians 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

What do you think "sealed by the Holy Spirit" means? To me, it means it's a done deal. I am in Christ. He transformed me into a new creature. He knows the future and doesn't change His mind.
What does faith mean to you? To me, it is a certainty of things unseen and hoped for, specifically Christ's promise: THAT IF YOU BELIEVE IN HIM, YOU WILL BE SAVED.
How many times did He make that promise? Salvation is by grace through faith and not by works, it is a gift.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. JOHN 10:28


For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom. 8:38-39

This is saying nothing _ not even you _ can separate yourself from the love of God.

Why are YOU NOT persuaded?

And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:25

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 John 5:11

Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
John 6:47

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3:36

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

I guess your faith is weak and questionable, because you don't really know God and believe what He promises.

BTW, concerning Gal. 6:7-8, true Christians do not sow to the flesh, they died to the flesh, it has no power over them. They are led by the SPIRIT, they may backslide at times but as their spiritual maturity grows, they begin to produce fruit. This is all God's doing. He is the AUTHOR of our faith, so the Author does not change His mind. Now seed is thrown on shallow or rocky soil and these people fall away because they never really believed.
ROM. 1:28 is speaking about non-believers, those who do not have faith in God. They know He exists, God has revealed Himslef by the things that have been made and by His invisible attributes, but still they rebel and resist Him. So He lets them go. These are reprobates.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

Yes, the new babes In Christ can get Very Confused [ uncertainly/perplexity ] with false doctrine,
unless taught by some of those "who have been walking With The Lord for a while," these Truths:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update

Having heard and understood the above, then they should next be taught:

God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus, No more Confusion about God's Very Important Truth!

Amen.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What do you think "sealed by the Holy Spirit" means?

It means God has put His claim on you, His mark if you will... similar to the seal they put on Jesus' tomb... does not mean it's impossible to open.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. JOHN 10:28

Yes, no third party (like the devil) can snatch us out of God's Hand... this promise however does not take away our free will that enables man to turn away from God.

nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom. 8:38-39

Everyone that is in hell right now... God never stopped loving them. God loves ALL people so just because He loves someone does not prevent them from going to hell if they turn away from Him and back to living in sin.

1 John 5:11, John 6:47, 1 John 5:13

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

I guess your faith is weak and questionable, because you don't really know God and believe what He promises.

Thanks for the chuckle... but actually, that in in error... the problem here is according to Galatians 6:7,8... you are mocking God by claiming we do NOT reap what we sow.

God's Word is crystal clear as we see in the lives of Adam and Eve... if one sows to the flesh (sin) they shall of the flesh reap corruption. After the Cross, people must repent and turn away from their sin. Your write up makes it OK to go ahead and sin which is not what God's Word teaches.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

Here's one that most definitely DOES Speak Against the Eternal Security of the believer

Galatians 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

So when Jesus says they will never perish but has eternal life. He lied?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Having heard and understood the above, then they should next be taught:

You have no comments of your own???

Are do you outsource what you believe to others?

I typically don't click on links when a discussion is going on since it's best to hear what the person posting thinks for themselves.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So when Jesus says they will never perish but has eternal life. He lied?

So when God's Word says we reap what we sow... He lied???

Sounds like you have been infected with Cherry Pickers Syndrome! (CPS)

That's where one looks at one or two happy verses and claims the rest of God's Word is optional, or even false.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's actually a very important topic as OSAS is a major stumbling block for many leading them to believe they can live in sin and still be saved which is not the case.

There are some very simple concepts taught in God's Word that prove it's not a biblical doctrine so it's a very important topic of discussion

Whats amazing is some people think they can excuse their sin. And earn their way to heaven.

thats even more dangerous

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It means God has put His claim on you, His mark if you will... similar to the seal they put on Jesus' tomb... does not mean it's impossible to open.

so who has the power to break the seal of the HS?

Yes, no third party (like the devil) can snatch us out of God's Hand... this promise however does not take away our free will that enables man to turn away from God.

What part of NO- ONE do you fail to understand?

Everyone that is in hell right now... God never stopped loving them. God loves ALL people so just because He loves someone does not prevent them from going to hell if they turn away from Him and back to living in sin.

John said one born of God can not live in sin.. so who are these people?

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

No, God did no such thing Adam and Eve were given life.. They died when they sinned.. and at that point everyone died, because all are in adam

Thanks for the chuckle... but actually, that in in error... the problem here is according to Galatians 6:7,8... you are mocking God by claiming we do NOT reap what we sow.

we do reap what we sow.

Salvation however is a gift, It can;t be earned, hence by defenition, it c a not be unearned.

God's Word is crystal clear as we see in the lives of Adam and Eve... if one sows to the flesh (sin) they shall of the flesh reap corruption. After the Cross, people must repent and turn away from their sin. Your write up makes it OK to go ahead and sin which is not what God's Word teaches.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

When will you stop looking to self and not God?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Whats amazing is some people think they can excuse their sin. And earn their way to heaven.

thats even more dangerous

We are called to obedience, not trying to earn our way to Heaven

The wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (Colossians 3:6)

 

[rwb]

So when God's Word says we reap what we sow... He lied???

Sounds like you have been infected with Cherry Pickers Syndrome! (CPS)

That's where one looks at one or two happy verses and claims the rest of God's Word is optional, or even false.

What exactly according to Scripture does "reaping what we sow" mean? Does it speak of eternal loss (lose salvation), or material/physical loss in this life? Have you never read: Hebrews 12:6-7 (KJV) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Is not chastening from the Lord reaping what we sow?

 

[rwb]

Whats amazing is some people think they can excuse their sin. And earn their way to heaven.

thats even more dangerous

Whoever would teach we can live as the heathens and be saved according to grace through faith, has not experienced being born again!

 

[rwb]

We are called to obedience, not trying to earn our way to Heaven

The wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (Colossians 3:6)

Ephesians 2:3-9 (KJV) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

so who has the power to break the seal of the HS?

It's imply a seal of approval, a seal of acceptance.

When one turns way from the Lord and sins they reap corruption and are no longer in right standing with the Lord.

To say this is not true is to mock God according to Gal 6:7,8

John said one born of God can not live in sin.. so who are these people?

You have never committed even one sin after being born again???
Say yes so we can all have a good laugh!

No, God did no such thing Adam and Eve were given life.. They died when they sinned.. and at that point everyone died, because all are in adam

Life that comes from God IS eternal (they would have lived for ever had they not sinned)... and if one turns away from God the gift of eternal life is not longer applicable to them because God is not mocked, we reap what we sow... if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption... mocking God creates separation from the mocker and from the Lord as it is sinful.
Jude 1:18
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Surely you don't want to be with these mockers do ya???

Salvation however is a gift, It can;t be earned, hence by defenition, it c a not be unearned.

So you believe Christians can go ahead and live in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord?

When will you stop looking to self and not God?

I'm simply reporting what the Lord says in His Word... those suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) are free to ignore any portion of God's Word that they so desire... it's what cherry pickers do ya know.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Ephesians 2:3-9

If one turns away from the Lord back to sin, none of this is applicable to them any longer... unless they repent as the prodigal son did and come back home to the Father.

In Jesus' teaching on the prodigal son the Father said His son was dead while he was gone but alive again when the son returned.

This is how it is with Christians... which of course is why Jesus gave this teaching

Surely nobody would mock the Lord Jesus and claim He doesn't know what He's talking about... would they???

 

[rwb]

If one turns away from the Lord back to sin, none of this is applicable to them any longer... unless they repent as the prodigal son did and come back home to the Father.

In Jesus' teaching on the prodigal son the Father said His son was dead while he was gone but alive again when the son returned.

This is how it is with Christians... which of course is why Jesus gave this teaching

Surely nobody would mock the Lord Jesus and claim He doesn't know what He's talking about... would they???

This is nice opinion, but where is the Scripture to prove what you assume? Are you now perfect, never choosing to sin? It seems you're saying we are in the Lord, oops we sin, we're not in the Lord, we repent, we're in the Lord again, oops we sin again we're not in the Lord etc etc etc ??? Very confusing doctrine you seem to be espousing here? You charge others with cherry picking verses of Scripture, it seems that description fits you very well.