Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

[MatthewG]

A question might come up and say "If God is faithful" - and even though human beings are not faithful - can He be able to resurrected all people despite their disbelief? Allowing them to live outside of the Kingdom of Heaven, mentioned in Revelation 21-22?

 

[GracePeace]

A question might come up and say "If God is faithful" - and even though human beings are not faithful - can He be able to resurrected all people despite their disbelief? Allowing them to live outside of the Kingdom of Heaven, mentioned in Revelation 21-22?

If the following is the answer for how they will be outside the city (not committing the dirty deeds, but suffering on account of them), I wouldn't want to be there with them.

Isaiah 66
24“Then they will go forth and look
On the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm will not die
And their fire will not be quenched;
And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

I recall that Lazarus was able to look over and see the rich man burning for having committed his sins during his life.

 

[Taken]

Just a technicality, I guess, but what about the generation that sees Christ's return? They won't die, they will be transformed.

An aside, anyway, I guess.

Not directly related to verses in the Bible proving salvation can be lost.

Before Christ Jesus steps one foot on earth, “return”….All eyes shall see Him sitting on a white cloud.

Every physical body MUST Die. God requires it.

People who LOSE their salvation, do so, Because they Never Accepted their salvation.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

Before Christ Jesus steps one foot on earth, “return”….All eyes shall see Him sitting on a white cloud.

Every physical body MUST Die. God requires it.

People who LOSE their salvation, do so, Because they Never Accepted their salvation.


Glory to God,
Taken

1. Paul says "those of us who are alive and remain will be transformed", so, what would you do with that verse?

2. LOL The thread is about people who were saved but who then still fell under God's wrath and did not inherit eternal life.

 

[GracePeace]

1. Paul says "those of us who are alive and remain will be transformed", so, what would you do with that verse?

I mean to say, if I were considering the belief for myself, I'd probably have to find a way to reconcile it with that verse, so, have you considered it? Could it dissuade your belief in it?

 

[GracePeace]

Before Christ Jesus steps one foot on earth, “return”….All eyes shall see Him sitting on a white cloud.

Every physical body MUST Die. God requires it.

People who LOSE their salvation, do so, Because they Never Accepted their salvation.


Glory to God,
Taken

Actually, now that I've taken a second look at the context, I don't think it is possible to believe that everyone will die.

1 Thessalonians 4
16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

So, the "dead" are resurrected first, then those who are alive and remain--these are two different groups, so, not to be argumentative, but I don't know how you will not correct your belief on the idea that all men must die in the face of this.

 

[Taken]

1. Paul says "those of us who are alive and remain will be transformed", so, what would you do with that verse?

2. LOL The thread is about people who were saved but who then still fell under God's wrath and did not inherit eternal life.

Salvation is a bought and paid for GIFT Offering From the Lord God, to any man WHO desires to Receive His Gift Offering.

People can Receive their Gift, (before physical death); called a living sacrifice.
They pledge their physical bodily death expressly and only For the Lord God.
Some people call that, Crucified with Jesus.

People who do NOT Receive their Gift, (before physical death), Receive their Gift at the time of their physical death…
(Pauls’ preaching you mentioned).

No such thing as Having Received the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation, and THEN Losing that Gift.

The LOSS of Salvation is effected, by a person Rejecting /Refusing to receive it.

Have you never been offered a gift, you refused to take?

 

[GracePeace]

Salvation is a bought and paid for GIFT Offering From the Lord God, to any man WHO desires to Receive His Gift Offering.

People can Receive their Gift, (before physical death); called a living sacrifice.
They pledge their physical bodily death expressly and only For the Lord God.
Some people call that, Crucified with Jesus.

People who do NOT Receive their Gift, (before physical death), Receive their Gift at the time of their physical death…
(Pauls’ preaching you mentioned).

No such thing as Having Received the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation, and THEN Losing that Gift.

The LOSS of Salvation is effected, by a person Rejecting /Refusing to receive it.

Have you never been offered a gift, you refused to take?

I don't know if I refused a gift, but I don't understand the idea that "because it's a gift, it can't be lost" lol How are gifts in a category of "unlosable"? If you have a child, and you give him a gift, can he not lose it? I don't understand that logic. Adam received everything as a gift, but suffered great loss as a result of his sin.

Also, the eternal life is "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), so it says eternal life is supplied to those abiding in Him, and that abiding is by obeying the command to 1) believe in the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (1 Jn 3:23,24), so if/when people break these commands (eg, the Galatians, who, by believing a false Gospel, were "deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ", and were "severed from Christ", or the immoral 1 Th 4:8, or those who are "condemned" for the "sin" of doing things they doubt are correct instead of doing only what they have faith to do (Ro 1:5, 16,17, 14:5, 23)), they are not abiding in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), and are not going to keep being supplied with the Spirit/eternal life that is only located in Christ.

 

[Taken]

I don't know if I refused a gift, but I don't understand the idea that "because it's a gift, it can't be lost" lol How are gifts in a category of "unlosable"? If you have a child, and you give him a gift, can he not lose it? I don't understand that logic.


Also, the eternal life is "in His Son", so, it says eternal life is supplied to those abiding in Him, and that abiding is by obeying the command to 1) believe in the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (1 Jn 3:23,24), so if/when people break these commands (eg, the Galatians, who, by believing a false Gospel, were "deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ", and were "severed from Christ", or the immoral 1 Th 4:8, or those who are "condemned" for "sin" by doing things they doubt are correct (Ro 1:5, 16,17, 14:5, 23) are not abiding (1 Jn 2:28), and are not going to keep being supplied with the Spirit/eternal life that is only located in Christ.

Humans can receive a gift, regift it, lose it, throw it away.

Gods gift of Salvation is the saving of ones soul.

While the soul in your body, carries the same identity (Name) as your body, and is a possession IN your body, and is call possessively by you, as “my, mine”, or by an other “yours”….
ALL SOULS belong to God.
And once a soul IS Saved, by, through, of the Power of God.

Guess WHOSE Power Keeps that soul saved?
You? a friend? A family member? No.
Christ, the Power of God that Dwells with-IN a person whose soul is saved.

Nothing to do with Logic or the safe keeping of a tangible gift a person might receive.

 

[GracePeace]

Humans can receive a gift, regift it, lose it, throw it away.

Gods gift of Salvation is the saving of ones soul.

While the soul in your body, carries the same identity (Name) as your body, and is a possession IN your body, and is call possessively by you, as “my, mine”, or by an other “yours”….
ALL SOULS belong to God.
And once a soul IS Saved, by, through, of the Power of God.

Guess WHOSE Power Keeps that soul saved?
You? a friend? A family member? No.
Christ, the Power of God that Dwells with-IN a person whose soul is saved.

Nothing to do with Logic or the safe keeping of a tangible gift a person might receive.

Well, yes, God certainly is at work--and, so, we are told "obey... Work out your salvation with fear and trembling". It's not one or the other, it's both.

I go back to passages like 1 Co 9:26-1 Co 10, which show salvation can be lost. I posted about it here recently.

 

[Taken]

. Adam received everything as a gift, but suffered great loss as a result of his sin.

Adam was offered every tree to eat from in the Garden, and was told to Not eat from ONE specific Tree.

What Adam and Eve wandered about and ate, was not important. What was important the ONE Tree they were told not to eat from, they did. And the ONE Tree Offered For them to eat, ie expressly the Tree of Life, they did not eat from.

The important part is the word “midst”, which means prominate, center, in this case, the Garden. (Not some obscure corner). And each of those two specific Trees expressly mentioned.

Both Trees…of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life were in the midst of the Garden.

What attracted Eve, was that little voice, she focused her attention on, then her eyes looking up the fruit, and then cunningly convinced she would be like God if she reached out took the fruit and ate it. She did, and She obviously liked the taste, and in turn offered the Fruit to Adam, saying it was good for food.

That is a lesson in itself…
In this world, side by side, good and evil and everlasting life is an option people will hear, look at, consider and take or refuse.

Both are Temptations, that men have to choose, If they are willing to receive one or the other and be content with the consequences of their choices. Because every choice Has a consequence, maybe one you like, maybe not.

And BTW, for the clever, who think MAKING No Choice, is a reprieve from negative consequences…
A man who does NOT Choose Life/God, by default is Against God.

And No, Adam did not TAKE that day in the Garden, the Gift Offering of Eternal Life.
As Adam was being escorted out of the Garden, he passed by the Tree of Life, and could have reached out to eat from That tree, but didn’t.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

Adam was offered every tree to eat from in the Garden, and was told to Not eat from ONE specific Tree.

What Adam and Eve wandered about and ate, was not important. What was important the ONE Tree they were told not to eat from, they did. And the ONE Tree Offered For them to eat, ie expressly the Tree of Life, they did not eat from.

The important part is the word “midst”, which means prominate, center, in this case, the Garden. (Not some obscure corner). And each of those two specific Trees expressly mentioned.

Both Trees…of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life were in the midst of the Garden.

What attracted Eve, was that little voice, she focused her attention on, then her eyes looking up the fruit, and then cunningly convinced she would be like God if she reached out took the fruit and ate it. She did, and She obviously liked the taste, and in turn offered the Fruit to Adam, saying it was good for food.

That is a lesson in itself…
In this world, side by side, good and evil and everlasting life is an option people will hear, look at, consider and take or refuse.

Both are Temptations, that men have to choose, If they are willing to receive one or the other and be content with the consequences of their choices. Because every choice Has a consequence, maybe one you like, maybe not.

And BTW, for the clever, who think MAKING No Choice, is a reprieve from negative consequences…
A man who does NOT Choose Life/God, by default is Against God.

And No, Adam did not TAKE that day in the Garden, the Gift Offering of Eternal Life.
As Adam was being escorted out of the Garden, he passed by the Tree of Life, and could have reached out to eat from That tree, but didn’t.

Glory to God,
Taken

Irrespective whether he took eternal life or not, the issue is he was "gifted" with many blessings, and ended up dead (not the state he started in) and cursed (not blessed as he began) as a result of his sin--it wasn't "unlosable" just because it was a gift!

 

[Taken]

Irrespective whether he took eternal life or not, the issue is he was "gifted" with many blessings, and ended up dead (not the state he started in) and cursed (not blessed as he began) as a result of his sin--it wasn't "unlosable" just because it was a gift!

Adam was Offered the Opportunity to RECEIVE his offered Gift RIGHT THEN…
But Didn’t Take it.

For 930 years, despite hardships, Adam remained in Belief to the day of his physical death, and was THEN Saved.

TWICE in history has manKIND been offered to RECEIVE their Gift of salvation, BEFORE their physical Death…
Adam in the Garden…
And some 2,000+ years ago…by, through, of Christ Jesus.

Reject the Offering, and Hope you can (by your own will-power remain in Belief).

Adam had to contend with Satan and one other person (Eve) Tempting him.

Today, Satan, thousands of fallen demonic angels, powerful positioned kings, powerful influential men, employers, news outlets, teachers, neighbors, on and on….are poised, and advocating, promoting, 24-7 AGAINST Christ.

Not new, however the odds of increased anti-Christs world wide, has greatly increased.

 

[GracePeace]

Adam was Offered the Opportunity to RECEIVE his offered Gift RIGHT THEN…
But Didn’t Take it.

For 930 years, despite hardships, Adam remained in Belief to the day of his physical death, and was THEN Saved.

TWICE in history has manKIND been offered to RECEIVE their Gift of salvation, BEFORE their physical Death…
Adam in the Garden…
And some 2,000+ years ago…by, through, of Christ Jesus.

Reject the Offering, and Hope you can (by your own will-power remain in Belief).

Adam had to contend with Satan and one other person (Eve) Tempting him.

Today, Satan, thousands of fallen demonic angels, powerful positioned kings, powerful influential men, employers, news outlets, teachers, neighbors, on and on….are poised, and advocating, promoting, 24-7 AGAINST Christ.

Not new, however the odds of increased anti-Christs world wide, has greatly increased.

Adam's very existence, all he was born in to, was an unearned gift--he ended up "dead" and "cursed" for sinning. He lost what had been gifted to him.

 

[GracePeace]

@Taken I believe the Bible teaches Christians can fall under wrath for sinning. I tried linking you to the post, but I am not sure if you will follow a link, so I'll share it here.

1 Corinthians 9:26-1 Corinthians 10 show that salvation can be jeopardized by sin--that just as the Jews fell under God's wrath and forfeited His promise after having been saved, so, also, Christians can fall under God's wrath and forfeit His promise after being saved.

Some object, "This isn't about salvation, it is about rewards," but
i. Paul says that he may become disqualified, and we know Paul often refers to faith as a "race", so if he became disqualified from the race of faith, that would mean he wouldn't be in the faith (eg, 2 Co 13:5).
ii. Paul warns the Corinthians (1 Co 6), because of their shockingly unrighteous behavior, that the unrighteous will not inherit God's Kingdom, explicitly mentioning the immoral and idolaters, and, in 1 Co 10, Paul mentions both immorality and idolatry--and, by the reckoning of a person who denies this issue (righteous living after salvation) is an issue on which eternal life hinges, what they're saying is they would have no issue with a Christian a) living in sin, b) provoking God to jealousy and falling under God's wrath, and c) forfeiting God's promise.

Therefore, the issue is not "merely about rewards" (as if "rewards" could not encompass "eternal life"--this is just a misunderstanding, anyway, since "God will repay every man according to his deeds... to the one who persists in doing good... eternal life" (Ro 2:6-16), and "My reward is with Me to repay every man according to his deeds" (Rv 22:12)), but that it refers to eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9
25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. So they do it to obtain a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

So, what is the "wreath", which is a "crown", Paul looks to win by living righteously?

James 1
12Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him

Revelation 2
10‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

But what happens to people who do not love God in their deeds? Do they just get a "lesser prize"? Of course not! They're "accursed" (1 Co 16:22).
What happens to people who do not have a "crown of life"? Aren't they dead? Wasn't it sin that first resulted in Adam's death--and isn't 1 Co 10 addressing sin?
So, death is by sin, and Paul says he won't get the crown of life if he lives in sin.

Sin can jeopardize our "in Christ" status (1 Jn 3:23,24)--"life" is located "in Christ" (1 Jn 5:11). Sin is surmised by a command--falling short of it. The command is: i) believe in Christ, and ii) love one another (1 Jn 3:23,24). The "crown of life" Paul wants is by remaining in Christ, where "life" is. Not all believers remain in Christ (1 Jn 2:28; 1 Jn 5:21). There's "no condemnation" for those "in Christ" (Ro 8:1). There's condemnation on a Christian who doesn't walk in faith (Ro 14:23). If there's "no condemnation" for those in Christ, how is a believer condemned? The believer is not remaining in Christ--by not walking in faith, he is not loving others. We remain in Him, and are given Life, by obeying--i) believe in Jesus, ii) love one another. Loving others is another way of saying "walk by faith"--"faith works by love". When are walking in faith, we are walking by love--revealing God's righteousness (Ro 1:5, 16,17). Those who remain in Christ are supplied with the Spirit. The Spirit is the eternal life--the life that is only located "in His Son". There is no sin in Christ. Those who sin are not remaining, and won't get the life. This is the "crown of life" Paul wants. He wants the eternal life located "in Christ", supplied only those who "remain in Christ". It's clear.

 

[Ritajanice]

God’s Living word says it so much better, as it’s said in Spirit and truth...Praise His Mighty Name!!

◄ 1 Thessalonians 5 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ The Day of the Lord (Zephaniah 1:7–18; Malachi 4:1–6; 2 Peter 3:8–13) 1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you.2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not sleep as the others do, but let us remain awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night; and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation. 9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him. 11Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm sorry that's the case

PHI 2:13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

To God be the Glory AMEN.

Notice that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation in Philippians 2:12. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not in order to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. Salvation by works at the back door is not being taught here, as some would suppose.

The idea is to progress to completion in spiritual growth and maturity. This is in reference to our "ongoing sanctification." Paul makes it clear that we are to be active, not passive, in this process. However, though we are active, we are not alone. In verse 13, we read - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. This involves the work of the person, but it's still God working in the believer who has already been justified by faith. Where justification is a legal declaration that is a one-time event (Romans 5:1) ongoing sanctification is a process. (1 Thessalonians 4:3,4)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was just wondering why it was called "the second death" when we already have two deaths (physical and spiritual). LOL

Its the second death to those who were never "made alive" or "born again"

remember, Jesus said he Never knew them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We differ: reading Romans 7, I think it is possible that people are not born spiritually dead, but they are born with the sinful flesh, so, because of the inevitable slavery to sin to which men become subjected by dint of the presence of that sinful flesh, men spiritually die.

It's interesting that Christ says the angels of the children daily behold the face of God. How is that the case if they're spiritually dead?

I don't think it's tenable to say every single last person who dies the second death (including death itself) had once believed in Jesus.

So you think some are born not in Adam? who would these people be?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, you are misunderstanding, they have rejected HIM.

selective listening, or in this case, seeing!