Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[Eternally Grateful]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

You have shortened Jesus' words in John 10:27-28 to:

"My sheep hear My voice and I know them. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand."

Your doctrine leaves out the "and they follow Me."

Following Him = abiding in the Vine. They who hear his voice and follow Him, i.e those who hear His voice and abide in the Vine, shall never ever perish.

Lol

You people love to Falsely accuse others.

I have said ALL this time, Those who are GODS DO FOLLOW HIM. They follow him BECAUSE THEY ARE SAVED. Not TO GET SAVED

lets look at the passage

My sheep. Who are they?

1. They hear his voice
2. The follow him
3. He gives them eternal life. And they shall NEVER PERISH and NO ONE is able to pluck us out of his hands

once again, This proves what I have been saying all along..

I also see @L.A.M.B. has liked this post. She continues to show she did not know me at all.

PS. Your passage actually PROVES my case. It does not negate it. It just adds another eternal life based on GOD and not self to my list of John passages.

Thank you

PS. Before you say I have never said it. Here you go

Typical. You can’t respond. So you deflect.

We abide in christ because we are saved, not to get saved.

But, feel free to try to save yourself..

We abide (follow) Because we are saved it is not a we might abide. It is a we WILL abide..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

You have shortened Jesus' words in John 10:27-28 to:

"My sheep hear My voice and I know them. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand."

Your doctrine leaves out the "and they follow Me."

Following Him = abiding in the Vine. They who hear his voice and follow Him, i.e those who hear His voice and abide in the Vine, shall never ever perish.

Lol

You people love to Falsely accuse others.

I have said ALL this time, Those who are GODS DO FOLLOW HIM. They follow him BECAUSE THEY ARE SAVED. Not TO GET SAVED

I also see @L.A.M.B. has liked this post. She continues to show she did not know me at all.

PS. Your passage actually PROVES my case. It does not negate it. It just adds another eternal life based on GOD and not self to my list of John passages.

Thank you

In reference to ing....
1. a suffix of nouns formed from verbs, expressing the action of the verb or it's RESULTS, ....

Romans 15:13 - Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes

And as John 3 said, If we BELIEVE in him we will NEVER PERISH and Have eternal life.

Its action. You have repented. And you have become poor in spirit. And through being poor in spirit as the tax collector. You call out to God for mercy.

And as Jesus said, You go home justified. You will never perish and you have eternal life. Because you acted

Thats the gospel in a nutshell

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree many want the one and done of their salvation, not wanting to count the cost of self denial in following Christ.
No responsibility does NOT remove the fact there will be accountablility!

Many want to insert their own righteousness in the equation they deny the fact that we will never be good enough to earn salvation. And there is no any work that we can do that will save us.

It is the blood that saves, and it does not partially saves IT COMPLETELY SAVES.

People do not want to accept the fact they can not Help God in saving themselves. Thats why so many do not get it and enter the wide gate

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God said even the demons believe, and tremble.

Um, He said they believe in One God.and tremble. Because even they know they are lost. James is refuting an easy believism gospel that you can just claim to have faith, but your claim is false. As proven by the fact you do not have works. You still act as you did before you claimed to have faith. So your still lost.

God said those who believe in and follow Him will not be lost.

No, He said those who believe will not be lost. Those who believe are his sheep and THEY WILL FOLLOW HIM

You keep taking a characteristic of those who are saved and changed by God and making it a pre-requisite. This is legalism

So give us the verse/s which you believe teaches that God says you cannot be lost, regardless of whether or not you follow Him/abide in the Vine, so we can look at them.

Lol. I gave you all kinds of verses that say we will not be lost BECAUSE we believe, because we looked up to the one hanging on the cross (john 3) Because we asked and recieved the water flowing to eternal life. John 4) Because we heard the word and believed and were given eternal life and WILL NOT COME INTO judgement (john 5) Because we ate the bread from heaven, and drank the blood, so we will never hunger never thirst, live forever, never die, have eternal life and will be raised on he last day (John 6)

Non of these passages say we must keep working or we will lose those things, it says we have them

Those who are born again are new Creatures. THEY ABIDE IN THE VINE. They DO GOOD WORKS they their new creation enabled them to do (eph 2: 8-10)

If you open up and look, you will see what I am saying

those saved are his sheep. They are nto lambs, they follow him (abide in him) because they hear his voice. Even when they wander off. He leaves the flock and goes to find them, and they follow him..

I know. I was a lost sheep prodigal for 5 Years.. so I am not just saying this

 

[mailmandan]

It is in scripture. From the very beginning when Adam did not abide in the Word of God. In the very verse where Jesus says abide in the Vine He says if you don't, you will be cast off as a branch.

There's no OSAS in scripture. Hebrews also tells us about what happens to someone who draws back.

@Eternally Grateful What in your opinion was Jesus saying would happen to someone who does not abide in Him?

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. (Proverbs 27:17)

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off. All genuine believers are fruitful but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no fruit at all were never truly converted.

 

[mailmandan]

It goes to the nature of Spiritual life. If you are alive in the Spirit you will continue to believe.

It's like that verse in Hebrews, You have been made partakers if you continue in the faith. Many interpret that as, you can stop being a partaker if you stop continuing in the faith, but if you know the actual grammar of the passages, it's saying you became a partaker - once and done, that is, perfect tense, if you continue in the faith. If you don't continue, it means you were not made a partaker.

Much love!

Amen! Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as partakers of Christ, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. What about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We do not believe we are worthy. We know Jesus is worthy, and we know He said those who hear His voice and follow Him/abide in the Vine will not perish, and so we follow Him/abide in the Vine because we hear His voice. It's an ongoing, life-long process.

You've been doing the same thing. You just don't know it.

You have to believe you are worthy. Or else you would give it ALL to christ. and not say in effect he will kick you out of his family if you do not obey him..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 John 3
23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, AND love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 And he who keeps His commandment dwells in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us.

QUESTION: According to the above, who dwells in Christ, and in Whom does Jesus abide?

Jesus dwells in the one who keeps His commandment.

What comes after the "AND" in His commandment?

".. AND love one another, as He gave us commandment."​

See you did it again.

Who are his kids (What do they do)
Who does Jesus dwell in (What do they do)

1. They obey
2. They abide
3. They follow.

These are ALL descriptions of those who are saved..

They are not done TO KEEP ONES SALVATION. they are done BECAUSE ONE IS SAVED.

Once again, You keep proving my points

1. You do not know what I believe
2. Because you do not know. You keep making the same mistake by saying or insisting I believe things I do not..
3. Your trying to earn salvation by your works.

Stop being like the pharisee. and become like the tax collector.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Post #866

"However, the grammar doesn't allow that. It would be saying, if your faith doesn't continue, you will stop having been permanently made into a partaker. And that's terrible grammar! It's a self contradictory statement."

The above assertion is a contradiction of the second statement in the same post:

"The true grammar of the passage is telling us, you've been permanently made a partaker if your faith continues."

Something comes after the "IF" in the second statement, contradicting the first assertion.

When you TRUST in something or someone

what causes your trust to falter or to fade away or to stop?

 

[mailmandan]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

You have shortened Jesus' words in John 10:27-28 to:

"My sheep hear My voice and I know them. And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand."

Your doctrine leaves out the "and they follow Me."

Following Him = abiding in the Vine. They who hear his voice and follow Him, i.e those who hear His voice and abide in the Vine, shall never ever perish.

In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)

 

[mailmandan]

God said even the demons believe, and tremble. God said those who believe in and follow Him will not be lost.

So give us the verse/s which you believe teaches that God says you cannot be lost, regardless of whether or not you follow Him/abide in the Vine, so we can look at them.

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God", yet they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why they do not follow Him. In other words, they do not believe on/in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

To abide in Christ simply means to remain, continue, not to depart. Abiding in Christ is the demonstrative evidence of genuine conversion. What about those who depart? (1 John 2:19)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast."

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as partakers of Christ, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. What about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.

Amen.

Not everyone who says Lord Lord.

Even in james, there were people playing Christian but had never met God. and James called them out.

 

[mailmandan]

Are you referring here to Ezekiel 18?

Much love!

In Ezekiel 18:29, we read - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.

*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVES.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God", yet they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation, which explains why they do not follow Him. In other words, they do not believe on/in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

To abide in Christ simply means to remain, continue, not to depart. Abiding in Christ is the demonstrative evidence of genuine conversion. What about those who depart? (1 John 2:19)

Amen

they were never of us.. IF they were. they never would have left.. (departed)

 

[Zao is life]

Lol

You people love to Falsely accuse others.

I have said ALL this time, Those who are GODS DO FOLLOW HIM. They follow him BECAUSE THEY ARE SAVED. Not TO GET SAVED

lets look at the passage

My sheep. Who are they?

1. They hear his voice
2. The follow him
3. He gives them eternal life. And they shall NEVER PERISH and NO ONE is able to pluck us out of his hands

once again, This proves what I have been saying all along..

I also see @L.A.M.B. has liked this post. She continues to show she did not know me at all.

PS. Your passage actually PROVES my case. It does not negate it. It just adds another eternal life based on GOD and not self to my list of John passages.

Thank you

PS. Before you say I have never said it. Here you go

We abide (follow) Because we are saved it is not a we might abide. It is a we WILL abide..

So all your arguments against the OP of this thread are a contradiction of what you said above.

 

[Zao is life]

We abide (follow) Because we are saved it is not a we might abide. It is a we WILL abide..

Maybe you, yes. But you can't speak on behalf of every one of the other billions of saints who were ever saved through faith since the first century till now as though they might abide depends on you.

 

[Zao is life]

Many want to insert their own righteousness in the equation they deny the fact that we will never be good enough to earn salvation.

And if you accuse anyone you have been disagreeing with in this thread of believing or saying they can, then you are falsely accusing them. You should read what people say because you argue with them about things you agree with them about.

And there is no any work that we can do that will save us.

No one you having speaking to in this thread says that. But abiding in Jesus produces fruit that can be seen. If it is not seen, they are not abiding or were abiding and are no longer abiding.

Death is the result. Jesus said so when He said we are to abide in Him. Please don't argue against Jesus.

It is the blood that saves, and it does not partially saves IT COMPLETELY SAVES.

People do not want to accept the fact they can not Help God in saving themselves. Thats why so many do not get it and enter the wide gate

No one you having speaking to in this thread says that anything else is the case.

The only difference is you assert that it does not matter what someone does or does not do after being born again - whether they abide in the Vine or not.

Which is false.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So all your arguments against the OP of this thread are a contradiction of what you said above.

Nope

The OP said abiding in Christ is NECESSARY to eternal life

I say Abiding in christ is THE RESULT of receiving eternal life;.

See the difference?

One is trying to earn eternal life (the op)

I am a new creature who is living out my eternal life.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe you, yes. But you can't speak on behalf of every one of the other billions of saints who were ever saved through faith since the first century till now as though they might abide depends on you.

I am speaking of ALL who are born of God. God said they WILL do his works.. They are new creatures.

Not everyone who says lord lord is saved.

There are many make believers..

why do you deny the power of God to change ALL his people?

 

[Zao is life]

Um, He said they believe in One God.and tremble. Because even they know they are lost. James is refuting an easy believism gospel that you can just claim to have faith, but your claim is false. As proven by the fact you do not have works. You still act as you did before you claimed to have faith. So your still lost.

Which is what everyone who you've been arguing the point with has said.

The difference is you don't seem to believe it's possible to have walked by faith and produced the works produced by faith and then fallen away.