False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[ewq1938]

We know the first beast out of the sea is the antichrist.

No, we know from Daniel that the ten horned beast is a kingdom. The Ac would be the little horn, someone that comes after the introduction of the ten horned beast kingdom. In Rev that would be the FP, who comes after the introduction of the ten horned beast kingdom just like in Daniel.

The false prophet is ANOTHER beast, not the first beast with a different description. It is simple understanding what is plainly written without reinterpreting the words.

If you stayed consistent with what Daniel taught you wouldn't change what the ten horned beast is.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Now you have resorted to judging and punishing me. James 4:11-12

You are a sad case; trapped in your delusions.

Why worry about it since there is no rapture.
Nobody judging you.
You state there is no rapture.
The walk is a walk of faith.
The rapture is the gathering of the bride. The worthy ones.
By thumbing your nose at the bible you have disqualified yourself.
You did that.
I can see what you do.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How is John 17:15 - cherrypicked?
It plainly states Jesus' prayer to God. Will God deny His Son and take His Christian followers out of this world?

The 'rapture to heaven' of the church is never stated in the Bible. It is a Satanic lie, that has fooled millions and it seems that those who have chosen the believe this lie, will be unprepared for what actually will happen,

Btw, you stepped into playing hardball by associating me with devils and lies.
Pushback from me is automatic.
So ironic the bible has multiple raptures but you call anyone that reads it and reports it a liar in bed with the devil.
I can debate concept vs concept, but you chose to go with the name calling and mocking. Then under pushback you fall apart.

 

[Keraz]

I can debate concept vs concept, but you chose to go with the name calling and mocking. Then under pushback you fall apart.

I have yet to see any serious debate, any proof of the 'rapture to heaven ' belief. From you or anyone.
Pushback? Accusations and abuse is all I get from you.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture. or proof of a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have yet to see any serious debate, any proof of the 'rapture to heaven ' belief. From you or anyone.
Pushback? Accusations and abuse is all I get from you.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture. or proof of a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

Anybody that gets on the low road by declaring " you are of satanic lies ad get your info from hell ( what you declared over me) then when pushback comes to your incorrect deal, you call them out.
You are not on very high ground.
You wanna put me in the devils camp...fasten your seatbelt

I love concept vs concept, but if you wanna go ghetto, you will see some pushback before i put you into ignore.
Iow...i let the ones with the venom set their own course.

BTW, Concerning your anti bible stance of no such a thing as a rapture, start a thread on it ,and it will be pure crickets.It is a silly concept.
Now lets see what the bible answers your deal;
Enoch raptured.
Elijah raptured.
The two witnesses raptured.
The church raptured in 1st Thessalonians 4.
Noah gathered up and taken over a mile into the sky.
Revelation 14 we have 144,000 Jews in heaven how did they get there? Rapture
Then also in rev 14 ,right after the first fruits are gathered (possibly raptured), we have Jesus with a sickle on a cloud gathering the rest of the Jews (that would be a rapture)
Paul taken up into heaven.
John taken up into heaven.
The resurrected Jesus in the book of Acts taken up into heaven with the disciples looking on.

All that's just off the top of my head.

so it's just completely silly and ridiculous to say there's no such thing as a rapture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have yet to see any serious debate, any proof of the 'rapture to heaven ' belief. From you or anyone.
Pushback? Accusations and abuse is all I get from you.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture. or proof of a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

your quote; "God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith"

Lol
The BIBLE says all take the mark or die.
So your ASSUMPTION is debunked.
(No christians at the end of the gt.)

Try to void it out.
I will wait.

 

[rebuilder 454]

keraz QUOTE with his ghetto style;

"7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching."


Iow..all believers but you are getting their position from the devil.
Pure desperation.
Nothing left to debate when mocking and name calling is invoked.
It is clear you can not honestly debate.
Start a thread on your declarations.
Let em know what you personally think of anyone challenging your assumptions and omissions.

SMH

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have yet to see any serious debate, any proof of the 'rapture to heaven ' belief. From you or anyone.
Pushback? Accusations and abuse is all I get from you.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture. or proof of a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

Jn 3
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
( your "proof" the ones believing the bible are from hell)


He was not in heaven, so you have no point, unless you are saying the ones previously raptured ( elijah and enoch taken alive into heaven ) are now voided by Jesus words.
We know for a fact they were, so you are proving you can not in your mental assessment understand the bible.
Yes you just proved you can not unpack what Jesus is saying.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you stayed consistent with what Daniel taught you wouldn't change what the ten horned beast is.

Daniel 7:19-25

King James Version

​

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


I am consistent with what Daniel was inspired to write-- the ten horns are ten kings.

It seems you do not understand basic grammar. Have the last word. We do not speak the same language.

 

[Keraz]

I will wait.

Not for long now.
As we see from the turmoil in the Middle East, soon the Lord will send His fiery wrath to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14

THEN, we Christians will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land.
This is our destiny, to be Gods people, His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Going to live in heaven, is a foolish and crazy idea, contrary to the prophetic Word and common sense.

 

[ewq1938]

I am consistent with what Daniel was inspired to write-- the ten horns are ten kings.

It seems you do not understand basic grammar. Have the last word.

You claim the ten horned beast is the AC yet in Daniel it is not the AC. That's called inconsistency.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not for long now.
As we see from the turmoil in the Middle East, soon the Lord will send His fiery wrath to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14

THEN, we Christians will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land.
This is our destiny, to be Gods people, His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Going to live in heaven, is a foolish and crazy idea, contrary to the prophetic Word and common sense.

We are the
Bridse of Jesus. Israel is the people of Jehovah! The bible unambiguously and explicitly declares that the chu8rch will be in heaven, Israel will live in their promised land, the gentiles saved during the trib period (who are not part of the church) will live in the nations and will have to send representatives to offer gifts and sacrifices at the millenial temple or their nation will suffer drought for that season. It is all spelled out in the bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You claim the ten horned beast is the AC yet in Daniel it is not the AC. That's called inconsistency.

Well I will answer you one more time.

IN Daniel 2 and 7 we see the progression of the fourth beast and legs and feet of iron and iron mingled with clay.

We see this in History Babylon, Medeo-Persia, Greece and the fourth kingdom started with rome. Rome split into two empires (two legs) with rome and constantinople as the capitols.

The easter leg stayed in Constantinople until late when it moved to Russia and the rulers were called Czars (Russian cesar)

The Western leg moved from Rome to germany, France, Spain and then the western democracies of the UK and America. (France Germany and spain called their empires the Holy Roman Empire)

The next iteration of the fourth beast of Dan. 7 wil be the one world govt. This will fail or send 10 kings to rule the world.

From these ten kings an eleventh rises up and he will be the AC and the culmination of the fourth beast! He is represented by the beast coming out of the sea as he will have the powers of the first three beasts and the varied strengths of the earlier iterations of the fourth beast.

We have been living under the fourth beast since Rome.

When you compare the beast of Daniel with the beast of REv. 13, they have differences. The beast of Daniel speaks of kings and kingdoms while the beast of revelation speaks of the person who is the epiutomer of the fourth beast.

 

[ewq1938]

When you compare the beast of Daniel with the beast of REv. 13, they have differences. The beast of Daniel speaks of kings and kingdoms while the beast of revelation speaks of the person who is the epiutomer of the fourth beast.

That's untrue. Rev speaks of similar things as Daniel. The beast with ten horns doesn't change into a person. It is still an empire of ten smaller kingdoms. No singular person involved in that until the little horn rises. In Rev instead of an 11th horn on the ten horned beast, there is a second beast who is a person with two little horns ie: little horn 2.0


Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet with two little horns comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

 

[Taken]

False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".
Thread title ^

Eh, nah.

A Replay of Gloomy days of Tribulations , Wrath, Death and Destruction are coming…

Rom 1:
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Seven seals…
Rev. 6:16. Wrath of the Lamb
Seven Trumps…
Rev 12:12 Wrath of the devil
Seven Vials…
Rev 16:1 Wrath of God

Excepted from Wrath…
1 Thes 5:9 Those who Have Received Salvation.

Excepted from Wrath upon the face of the Earth…Raised up to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thes 4:16, 1 Thes 4:17

Excepted from Condemnation…
Rom 8:1 Those “IN” Christ. Christ “IN” them.

It is FALSE teaching that the Lord God has Appointed wrath for those who ARE sanctified.

Those who ARE sanctified, ARE whole;
Body, soul, spirit, new creatures.

It is FALSE teaching that the Lord shall not meet those who are Sanctified In the air.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

We are the
Bridse of Jesus. Israel is the people of Jehovah! The bible unambiguously and explicitly declares that the chu8rch will be in heaven, Israel will live in their promised land, the gentiles saved during the trib period (who are not part of the church) will live in the nations and will have to send representatives to offer gifts and sacrifices at the millenial temple or their nation will suffer drought for that season. It is all spelled out in the bible.

I have to wonder at the mindset of people who see things that are not there.
None of your unsupported opinions above have the proof of explicit, plainly stated Bible verses.

The great multitude of people that John sees in Rev 7:9, are the Christian peoples, not Jews. Proved by how they are from every tribe, race, nation and language. Also proved they are on earth by the first 3 verses of Rev 7, which set an earthly scene.

Our destiny as faithful Christians is the be the people who God always wanted in His holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10 tells the story of our going to and living in all of the holy Land.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's untrue. Rev speaks of similar things as Daniel. The beast with ten horns doesn't change into a person. It is still an empire of ten smaller kingdoms. No singular person involved in that until the little horn rises. In Rev instead of an 11th horn on the ten horned beast, there is a second beast who is a person with two little horns ie: little horn 2.0


Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet with two little horns comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.

Sorry but that beast is given by God third person personal pronouns! that makes that beast a he! Also the dragon is a person and the false prophet is a person, though he is descrbed as a lamb with two horns.

Interesting how you take the ten horns and make them ten kingdoms (when the bible says they are kings) but yet make the eleventh or little horn a person.

And no the two horned beast does not have power over the first beast. You have read this wrong.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

He exercises the power of the first beast when he is in the presence of the first beast!

I also wonder why you do not makew this a kingdom or religious institution. It like the first beast is described as a beast and is given third person personal pronouns but yet you call him a person.

But to show you the fourth beast of Daniel is different than the beast of REv. 13:

Daniel 7:

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

See out of this fourth kingdom- ten kings will arise and an eleventh will follow! That is primary school grammar.

Now revelation13::

Revelation 13

King James Version

​

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

See the difference?

He carries the characteristics of the first three kingdoms of the earth. He has the ten horns of the ten kings. And seven heads and ten crowns and written on his head the names of blasphemy. this is a different beast than Daniel. and just like the dragon and the two horned ram, He is a personal entity and nota kingdom. And the second beast- causes all to worship the beast out of the sea. The antichrist will demand worship, not call people to worshihp a different entity.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have to wonder at the mindset of people who see things that are not there.
None of your unsupported opinions above have the proof of explicit, plainly stated Bible verses.

They are filled with enormous biblical support, which I listred for you on two other threads, that is why I believe it.

You make Israel to be the church now which is impossible accordsing to Scriptures and then have the OT prophecies concerning the nation of Israel apply to the church.

Me thinks tis you who holds to biblically unsupported doctrines.

 

[ewq1938]

Sorry but that beast is given by God third person personal pronouns! that makes that beast a he!

No. You clearly don't have any education in Greek. The noun for beast is neuter gender which in the translation process is usually rendered as masculine but in no way is that evidence that the beast is a person. Daniel says it is a kingdom not a person so that is the same in Rev.

Also the dragon is a person and the false prophet is a person, though he is descrbed as a lamb with two horns.

He is not described as a lamb but having two little horns of a lambkin. Only the symbolic horns are lamb related, nothing else.

Interesting how you take the ten horns and make them ten kingdoms (when the bible says they are kings) but yet make the eleventh or little horn a person.

The bible says they are kings and kings have kingdoms. The little horn is written as a person who will be a king of the entire ten kingdomed beast.

And no the two horned beast does not have power over the first beast. You have read this wrong.

No, that is also wrong.


Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

He exercises the power of the first beast when he is in the presence of the first beast!

It says in the sight of men not in the sight of the beast kingdom.

I also wonder why you do not makew this a kingdom or religious institution. It like the first beast is described as a beast and is given third person personal pronouns but yet you call him a person.

Daniel says the ten horned beast is a kingdom, the last of 4. The little horn is the only singular person in the text, and it is the same with Rev 13 and the two beasts.

See the difference?

No one said there aren't some differences but both ten horned beasts are kingdoms, with someone coming afterward to lead it. In Daniel it's a little horn, in Rev it's a beast with two little horns.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not for long now.
As we see from the turmoil in the Middle East, soon the Lord will send His fiery wrath to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14

THEN, we Christians will be motivated to travel to and live in all of the holy Land.
This is our destiny, to be Gods people, His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Going to live in heaven, is a foolish and crazy idea, contrary to the prophetic Word and common sense.

I said the bible says all take the mark. All take it or die.
A guess it is another component you are not aware of.