False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Hobie]

Many Churches have picked up the false Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture", and give the people the idea that if you are a real Christian you will be caught up in the secret rapture to be with Christ. To arrive at this the Scripture has to be twisted and taken out of context.
Here are some of the texts that have been quoted as referring to the rapture:-

1. The Church will meet Christ in the air - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
2. The Church will be taken to heaven - 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and John 14:3
3. Christ will come for His saints - 2 Thessalonians 2:1
4. The rapture is a mystery - 1 Corinthians 15:51
5. The righteous will be removed - 1 Thessalonians 4:17

The verse, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 used in 1, 2, and 5 has been twisted to make it seem to say the things they claim. Let us look at this verse in context with the verses around it.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
Verse 14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Verse 15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."
Verse 16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
Verse 17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Verse 18 "Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
Verses 13 - 15 says sorrow not for those that are asleep or dead, Jesus died and rose again and so conquered death. When He comes again these people He will raise from the grave as verse 16 explains and then in verse 17 we which are alive and remain will be caught up with those that have been raised from the grave to be ever with the Lord Jesus Christ. This quote can fit nowhere else but the second coming of Jesus - verse 15.

John 14:3 used in this, tells us that after Jesus arose, He told His disciples that He was going to prepare a place for them, referring also to all the righteous, and that he was coming again to receive all the righteous unto Himself. It is refering to the time when Christ comes at His 2nd coming.
John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."
Verse 2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
Verse 3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

2 Thessalonians 2:1 used in number 3 is correct but let us put the correct interpretation to it. Read verses 1, 2, and 3 and the reader will see that verse 1 tells us that Christ is coming again to gather His people to Himself; verse 2 tells us not to be troubled but hold firm; verse 3 tells us not to be deceived for that day shall not come until the man of sin -"The Pope" - is revealed; and verse 4 gives us a description of what the man of sin is like.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"
Verse 2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
Verse 3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Verse 4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

1 Corinthians 15:51 used in number 4 is taken completely out of context. By reading verse 52 also we find that we shall not all sleep, but those that are alive when Christ comes the second time at the end of the seven last plagues, shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. This is the very same meaning as in 1 Thessalonians 13:18 which is talking about the second coming.
1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
Verse 51 "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"
Verse 52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
Verse 53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Its clear what is being said, but evil likes to bring confusion and twist the truth.

 

[Hobie]

So don't be deceived by the false doctrine of the Secret Rapture.The Second Coming will be seen by everyone so its kind of hard to have a "Secret Rapture" with everyone watching. So how will Christ return and how will the Second Coming unfold, well lets start at how he ascended:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'. Acts 1:9-11

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory. Matthew 25:31

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

Jesus return in the clouds will be visible to everyone on earth and will be any kind of secret, or only seen or experience by a select few. Christ also warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

Jesus return in the clouds will great a audible sound so that everyone on earth know of his coming, not just a select few.

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

Jesus will return in the clouds while everyone sees and hears his Second Coming and the faithful, those that had died and those alive will be picked up and meet him in mid-air in the cloud of his angels. The redeemed (elect) will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky, the verses make clear it is not a secret rapture.

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31 NIV

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

The living righteous are changed in moments at the last trumpet. We cannot go to heaven with pain, sickness, disease, we will be transformed in a instance, all these things will be taken away. Our bodies will be changed into the likeness of His, incorruptible, and changed to immortal.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 1 Corinthians 15: 51-54

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body... Philippians 3:20, 21

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him . . and every man that hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure. 1 John 3:2,3

He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it. And it shall be said in that day: 'Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.' Isaiah 25:8,9

 

[GISMYS_7]

The rapture(catching up) of all born-again believers is not the same event as Jesus's return to set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years. Study and learn.

 

[07-07-07]

The Rapture is a theory based on the mystery of the Scriptures, and it's a very valid theory. It makes sense in that the Church is under grace during the current Church age and will be caught up before God turns His attention back to Israel for their final week (seven years) of punishment. Will it hold to be true? Only time will tell.

Jewish dispensation (Spring) ==> Gentile dispensation (Summer) ==> One more week of Jewish dispensation (Fall) ==> Return of Messiah Jesus to execute the winepress of the fierceness of God's wrath (Winter) ==> Millennial Kingdom (New Age)

Was the Gentile Church on earth when Jesus fulfilled the first 4 of the 7 Jewish feasts of the Lord? No (The Gentile Church really began when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius, his friends and family). Jesus fulfilled all the spring feasts, i.e., the Feast of Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Firstfruits, the Feast of the Harvest (Pentecost). There are 3 more feasts to be fulfilled, which are all in the fall, i.e., the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. It seems consistently logical that Jesus will fulfill them too. In God's seasonal calendar, the Gentile Church is in the summer season, and all the end-time signs indicate that we are at the end of the summer season. Fall is soon to begin. Will the Gentile Church be here on earth when Jesus begins to fulfill the last 3 Jewish feasts, beginning with the feast of Trumpets?

1 Thessalonians 4
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Those that deny he rapture will be left behind!!!

 

[marks]

Verses 13 - 15 says sorrow not for those that are asleep or dead, Jesus died and rose again and so conquered death. When He comes again these people He will raise from the grave as verse 16 explains and then in verse 17 we which are alive and remain will be caught up with those that have been raised from the grave to be ever with the Lord Jesus Christ. This quote can fit nowhere else but the second coming of Jesus - verse 15.

If you put the catching up of those "in Christ" at the time of Jesus' coming in power and glory, you will have to deny the plain meaning of other passages. Do you want to explore this together?

I'd begin right there at His coming.

Do you believe the plain sayings of both of these passages in the same way as each other?

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

. . . and . . .

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see both of these as narrative prophecy, foretelling things that will happen as portrayed?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

The rapture(catching up) of all born-again believers is not the same event as Jesus's return to set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years. Study and learn.

The reverse advice applies to you. God's Word reveals Christ's coming to gather His saints happens only ONE TIME on the very LAST DAY of this world, called the "day of the Lord". In Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Lord Jesus declared His coming to gather His saints AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

It is apparent then, that it is YOU that needs to study and learn.

 

[Davy]

The Rapture is a theory based on the mystery of the Scriptures, and it's a very valid theory.

No it is not a valid theory. It's actually a joke on those deceived who buy into it. Do you really think Lord Jesus is going to be pleased with you when He finds out you'd rather listen to men's false doctrines instead of His Word?

You need to face what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 about His future coming to gather His saints AFTER THE TRIBULATION. It may hurt a little today to admit to what He said there for when He comes to gather His faithful, but it will hurt a whole lot more when He does come on the LAST DAY like He showed, and finds you have not waited for Him.

 

[marks]

It seems consistently logical that Jesus will fulfill them too. In God's seasonal calendar, the Gentile Church is in the summer season, and all the end-time signs indicate that we are at the end of the summer season.

I've never thought of this before, it's interesting!

I'm reminded of the place, one of the prophets, of the people saying, The harvest is ended, summer is over, and we are not saved! I've had that verse flagged in my mind for 30 years, wondering about it, I'll have to look where it is . . .

Jeremiah 8:19-22 KJV
19) Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
20) The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
21) For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
22) Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

When I read this, I'm reminded, also from Jeremiah, "it is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it". There is a balm in Gilead, there is a Great Physician who will recover their health.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

If you put the catching up of those "in Christ" at the time of Jesus' coming in power and glory, you will have to deny the plain meaning of other passages. Do yo want to explore this together?

Well that statement is just IGNORANT. God's Word is given by The Holy Spirit, and no Bible Scripture will contradict itself.

So simply ignoring Bible Scripture like Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER THE TRIBULATION, is not going to make that Scripture go away.

I'd begin right there at His coming.

Do you believe the plain sayings of both of these passages in the same way as each other?

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

. . . and . . .

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see both of these as narrative prophecy, foretelling things that will happen as portrayed?

Much love!

The Matthew 25 Scripture is NOT the parallel Scripture to Jesus revealing His coming to gather the Church is AFTER THE TRIBULATION. The Mark 13:24-27 Scripture is the PARALLEL to Matthew 24:29-31.

But nice try though with attempting to bring in Matthew 25, just so you can TRY and cloud up what Jesus said directly about His coming to gather His saints AFTER the tribulation.

 

[marks]

Well that statement is just IGNORANT. God's Word is given by The Holy Spirit, and no Bible Scripture will contradict itself.

So simply ignoring Bible Scripture like Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 where Jesus showed His coming to gather His saints is AFTER THE TRIBULATION, is not going to make that Scripture go away.


The Matthew 25 Scripture is NOT the parallel Scripture to Jesus revealing His coming to gather the Church is AFTER THE TRIBULATION. The Mark 13:24-27 Scripture is the PARALLEL to Matthew 24:29-31.

But nice try though with attempting to bring in Matthew 25, just so you can TRY and cloud up what Jesus said directly about His coming to gather His saints AFTER the tribulation.

I notice that you chose to respond my post to someone else, but you weren't inclined to answer the simple questions I've asked that person.

You've implied that I'm ignorant. You've implied that I ignore passages of Scripture. You've implied that I'm attempting to cloud up what Jesus said, but you didn't answer my very simple question about a couple of passages of Scripture.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I've never thought of this before, it's interesting!

I'm reminded of the place, one of the prophets, of the people saying, The harvest is ended, summer is over, and we are not saved! I've had that verse flagged in my mind for 30 years, wondering about it, I'll have to look where it is . . .

Jeremiah 8:19-22 KJV
19) Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
20) The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
21) For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
22) Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

When I read this, I'm reminded, also from Jeremiah, "it is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it". There is a balm in Gilead, there is a Great Physician who will recover their health.

Much love!

Thank you for that EXAMPLE OF YOUR BIBLICAL ILLITERACY!

I'll bet you are PROUD of how your false Pre-trib Rapture prophets have taught you to study God's Word!

Just so you know...

The Jeremiah 8 Chapter is GOD MOCKING the JEWS at Jerusalem because of their IDOL worship graven images, and FALLING AWAY FROM HIM! It AIN'T about His gathering them at all! Instead, God is getting ready to bring the KING OF BABYLON, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, UPON THEM, AND REMOVE THEM CAPTIVE TO BABYLON!

And you want to try and associate that Jeremiah Scripture with your false Pre-trib Rapture theory beliefs?? That truly is sick.

Jer 8:5-19
5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, 'What have I done?' every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but My people know not the judgment of the LORD.

8 How do ye say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?' Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, 'Peace, peace'; when there is no peace.

12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

13 I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

14 Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.

15 We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!

16 The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.

17 For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.

18 When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me.

19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked Me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
KJV

 

[MatthewG]

I believe Jesus came back to those where watching waiting in that time period and took up is pure, blameless bride of Christ; which established the kingdom of God.

I have no proof. Only faith he wasnt a liar about that generation nor was his apostles liars either, to those group of people written to.

 

[marks]

That truly is sick.

You have a problem.

I'm not presenting that as a rapture verse, just something that's flagged my interest in general. It's like you are frothing at the mouth or something! And again I wasn't posting to you. You jumped in to post . . . this.

Your poor opinions of me seem only equalled by your willingness to share them with others. Very Christ-like I'm sure!

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I notice that you chose to respond my post to someone else, but you weren't inclined to answer the simple questions I've asked that person.

NO, I responded to YOUR post. And you didn't ask me ANY questions, nor did I ask YOU any. But nice try with attempting to change the subject of when Bible Scripture says Lord Jesus comes to gather His elect Church.

You've implied that I'm ignorant. You've implied that I ignore passages of Scripture. You've implied that I'm attempting to cloud up what Jesus said, but you didn't answer my very simple question about a couple of passages of Scripture.

Much love!

You are Biblically ignorant. Didn't you catch what I showed proving your Biblical illiteracy regarding your vain attempt to associate those Jeremiah 8 verses with your false pre-trib rapture?

 

[Davy]

You have a problem.

I'm not presenting that as a rapture verse, just something that's flagged my interest in general. It's like you are frothing at the mouth or something! And again I wasn't posting to you. You jumped in to post . . . this.

Your poor opinions of me seem only equalled by your willingness to share them with others. Very Christ-like I'm sure!

Much love!

No problem on my end. I STAY with what GOD's WORD says, not man's word like you do.

So which is it...

Did Lord Jesus reveal His coming to gather His saints is PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION, or AFTER THE TRIBULATION per the following...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

I mean, you even quoted... that above Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture in one of your posts above, BUT... you didn't even bother to address it! And man, it must really bother... you!

 

[marks]

NO, I responded to YOUR post. And you didn't ask me ANY questions, nor did I ask YOU any.

Try it, see if you want to answer the question asked in that post.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Try it, see if you want to answer the question asked in that post.

Much love!

You first, as I have already... asked you questions you have not even attempted... to respond to.

 

[marks]

And man, it must really bother... you!

Actually I think it's pretty easy to see who is getting bothered in this conversation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You first, as I have already... asked you questions you have not even attempted... to respond to.

You jumped in on something. Put up or shut up, I think is what they say.

Much love!