Misunderstood Concepts--- Atonement

[Ronald Nolette]

Let me give you an example....

Do you understand the concept? It's not learning doctrine from a movie. The movie is an example of the consequences of misunderstanding a concept.

Thank you for providing yet another example of it in living color. Thank you for your service.

and what concept am I misunderstanding in living color!

 

[Mr E]

and what concept am I misunderstanding in living color!

You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of misunderstanding a concept. That's what the movie is about. The misunderstanding of a concept. And now it's time to move past that.

 

[Mr E]

Genesis 1:26 The elohim say- "Let us make adam in our image, after our likeness."

You Bible probably reads- "God said- Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness" -or some version of that.

-and this is the story of the genesis (beginning) of man. No matter which version you are reading, most agree:

God created humankind (man/adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them.

Then God blessed them..........

What happened? Created and blessed by God. This was our first form. With God, or you could say- Immanuel... God with us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of misunderstanding a concept. That's what the movie is about. The misunderstanding of a concept. And now it's time to move past that.

Well as we only have seen a trailer I cannot speak to the content of the movie.

 

[Waiting on him]

God created humankind (man/adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them.

Amen, and we see this in the New Testament in the book of Ephesians.
Ephesians 4:13 KJV
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
So in this book where we have Paul stating that a woman isn’t supposed to teach a man; the woman is not in reference too a biological female rather a spiritually immature Christian.

 

[Waiting on him]

Be ye perfect!

 

[Mr E]

Be ye perfect!

It's another way of saying- be a man. A real man.

The passage you reference is directly related to this concept-- Adam came first, then Eve. And it was the woman who committed the violation. It was her offence that brought about the separation from the Presence of God, and the need for atonement. We lost the intimate relationship with God and that is what must be reconciled and restored.

How? Well, in the same passage, it says that she will be saved through child-bearing.

To grasp the concept, we need to revisit the circumstances, look at the bigger picture and examine the context.

 

[Waiting on him]

It's another way of saying- be a man. A real man.

The passage you reference is directly related to this concept-- Adam came first, then Eve. And it was the woman who committed the violation. It was her offence that brought about the separation from the Presence of God, and the need for atonement. We lost the intimate relationship with God and that is what must be reconciled and restored.

How? Well, in the same passage, it says that she will be saved through child-bearing.

To grasp the concept, we need to revisit the circumstances, look at the bigger picture and examine the context.

May God grant you the wisdom to reveal this truth!

 

[Waiting on him]

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

 

[Mr E]

The first time that the word atonement is used in scripture, is in Genesis 6, where it's introduced as a concept in the context of the great flood, where God instructs Noah to make that box (ark) and to protect all within with a covering of pitch. In it's simplest form, atonement is a coating, or a membrane that forms a barrier between two things that are not compatible. It's the separation between the inner and the outer.

An excellent example of this can be seen here>>>

Galatians 4:19 KJV
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

When a baby is formed in the womb of its mother a temporary, but physical barrier, is formed between mother and child. The amniotic sac envelops the growing babe as a protective covering and in that sac with the baby is the placenta that allows the bloodstream of the child inside to be nourished and supplied with oxygen from the mother's bloodstream, without ever mixing them. The inside person is within (obviously) dependent upon, and yet still independent of that outer person. It's miraculous.

While Genesis 6 is the first time we see this "kaphar/kopher" used-- translated later in scripture as atonement covering, it isn't where the idea is first introduced. To see the first form of the concept we have to revisit the first time an atonement was required and to see that we have to look at what Christians commonly refer to as the original sin. That first transgression that caused the separation between God and man.

The tale is told in Genesis 3 and though it's one of the most familiar in all of scripture, many miss the required atonement and subsequent separation that was formed between the inner (spirit) and the outer (host) of man.

Adam and Eve sinned. A transgression occurred and then--

The LORD God made garments from skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.


And then they were sent away-- separated from His presence.

 

[Waiting on him]

Wow, this is beginning to connect many dots. I’m seeing Jesus’ flesh- the veil as their way too God.

It’s incredible how the Veil is often reduced to a literal curtain hanging in a stone temple.

 

[XFire]

I read thru many of these replies. All talk about the cross. Are we forgetting that the last sin that Christ overcame is death. It is in the ressurection that the atonement gives me hope that I will live again in the heavens with Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

I read thru many of these replies. All talk about the cross. Are we forgetting that the last sin that Christ overcame is death. It is in the ressurection that the atonement gives me hope that I will live again in the heavens with Christ.

What do you see in this passage?
Galatians 1:15 KJV
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Galatians 1:16 KJV
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

 

[Mr E]

Wow, this is beginning to connect many dots. I’m seeing Jesus’ flesh- the veil as their way too God.

It’s incredible how the Veil is often reduced to a literal curtain hanging in a stone temple.

It's another example of what I'm pointing toward. That curtain is as that membrane that separates one side from the other.

The flesh is on one side of it, the spirit on the other and a divider between.

As mentioned, the original atonement was a covering of skin. From this first form, the idea of blood sacrifice was born.

Sigh..... it all went downhill from there.

 

[Waiting on him]

It's another example of what I'm pointing toward. That curtain is as that membrane that separates one side from the other.

The flesh is on one side of it, the spirit on the other and a divider between.

As mentioned, the original atonement was a covering of skin. From this first form, the idea of blood sacrifice was born.

Sigh..... it all went downhill from there.

I’m still processing all of the scripture that’s related to what your stating.

 

[Waiting on him]

It's another example of what I'm pointing toward. That curtain is as that membrane that separates one side from the other.

The flesh is on one side of it, the spirit on the other and a divider between.

As mentioned, the original atonement was a covering of skin. From this first form, the idea of blood sacrifice was born.

Sigh..... it all went downhill from there.

It’s only as if recent that I’ve realized what the woman is in Ephesians, that is telling to be silent. I guess it has to be God that has revealed this very important understanding.

I’m beginning to see that I should just be quiet for a while.

 

[Waiting on him]

The flesh is on one side of it, the spirit on the other and a divider between.

Like this?
Ephesians 2:14 KJV
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

 

[Mr E]

Like this?
Ephesians 2:14 KJV
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Yes, just like that. It's easy to see Jesus as the man in the middle on that cross. The cross (Jesus on that cross) becomes the membrane that both divides and bridges between two worlds. He is the dividing line. And that is the reconciliation as well as the atonement. That the earthly is shed like a garment left behind and that the spirit is reunited with the Father.

 

[Wick Stick]

@Mr E

So is the covering a good thing, or a bad thing?

I was always taught that having my sins covered was good. But you seem to be suggesting that the covering is a barrier between God and man, in a bad way. Have I misunderstood?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think people try to take a basic occurace (atonement) and make it difficult

Atonement in the OT occurred once a year

On that day the high priest made atonement for himself, his family, the temple and the people
If Israel

Animals shed their blood for this atonement

The issue was this method was flawed. It could
Not remove the sin issue. Because we continued to sin so year after year the high priest had to rinse and repeat

True atonement was made on the cross by God himself who died once and sits by the right hand of God making intercession

The sin issue was resolved. The difference is he will not just give it to us. He wants us to freely receive. Those who do in faith have passed from death to life and will never perish but will live forever

This is atonement 101.