After you acknowledge my standing as a Christian. Not before.
If you are unwilling to do so, frankly any conversation with you is a waste of my time falling of deaf ears.
Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries
- Thread starter The Learner
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Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If you are unwilling to do so, frankly any conversation with you is a waste of my time falling of deaf ears.
2 Peter 2
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 Timothy 4:1
A Warning About False Teachers
The Spirit clearly says that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe. They will obey spirits that tell lies. And they will follow the teachings of demons.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 Timothy 4:1
A Warning About False Teachers
The Spirit clearly says that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe. They will obey spirits that tell lies. And they will follow the teachings of demons.
- 2 Peter 2:1
False Teachers
In the past there were false prophets among God’s people. It is the same now. You will have some false teachers in your group. They will teach things that are wrong—ideas that will cause people to be lost. And they will teach in a way that will be hard for you to see that they are wrong. They will even refuse to follow the Master who bought their freedom. And so they will quickly destroy themselves.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:3
These false teachers only want your money. So they will use you by telling you things that are not true. But the judgment against these false teachers has been ready for a long time. And they will not escape God who will destroy them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:10
That punishment is for those who are always doing the evil that their sinful selves want to do. It is for those who hate the Lord’s authority. These false teachers do whatever they want, and they are so proud of themselves. They are not afraid even to say bad things against the glorious ones.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:12
But these false teachers speak evil against what they don’t understand. They are like animals that do things without really thinking—like wild animals that are born to be caught and killed. And, like wild animals, they will be destroyed.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:15
These false teachers left the right way and went the wrong way. They followed the same way that the prophet Balaam went. He was the son of Beor, who loved being paid for doing wrong.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:17
These false teachers are like springs that have no water. They are like clouds that are blown by a storm. A place in the deepest darkness has been kept for them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 Peter 2:19
These false teachers promise those people freedom, but they themselves are not free. They are slaves to a mind that has been ruined by sin. Yes, people are slaves to anything that controls them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 1 John 4:1
John Warns Against False Teachers
My dear friends, many falseprophets are in the world now. So don’t believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 2 John 1:7
Many false teachers are in the world now. They refuse to say that Jesus Christ came to earth and became a man. Anyone who refuses to accept this fact is a false teacherand the enemy of Christ.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
While you are trapped in LDS teachings, I can not call you a Historical Christian. I can call you friend.
I have zero desire to be a Creedal Christian. But I am a Christian.
And friends take the time to listen to what to e other days. You have no treated me like that. You have continually ignored and scorned me. Many of these supposed “Christian” sites you mindlessly keep spamming are as truthful and loving as the KKk.
I will not tolerate this abusive behavior and hateful behavior. Especially from another person claiming to also love Christ and be my brother in Him.
FALSE PROPHETS DO NOT LIKE TO LISTEN TO ANYONE; THEY BELIEVE THAT GOD TELLS THEM EVERYTHING. (ahh cap locks were on, sorry, not yelling.) lol
False prophets view correction as persecution.
Teachings and testimonies that do not fit with the gospel are in darkness. They have no truth.
Teachings and testimonies that do not fit the gospel have no light because they leave out “the light of the world,” Jesus (John 8:12, ESV).
Does the message mix truth with lies?
Do their proclamations come true?
“But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’—when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:20–21, ESV
false prophets to be ignored (Deut 13:1-5; 18:21-22; Neh 6:12-13; Jer 23:25-28; Matt 7:15; 24:24; Acts 13:6; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 John 4:1-3; Rev 2:20)
“You shall have no other gods before Me” (Deut 5:7), Isa 43:10 wipes out the possiblity of becoming or being exhaulted as a god.
windowwalker.podbean.com
Must Harmonize with Scripture
Prophecies must come to pass --- one prophecy that does not come to pass disqualifies those like JS.
Good list of Bible texts on testing a prophet at What Does the Bible Say About Test Prophets?
According to Deut. 18:20-22:
1. He must speak in the name of the Lord, not some other god.
2. His message must be in accord with God’s revealed truth in Scripture.
3. His predictions of future events must come true exactly as predicted.
I. The Tests of a Genuine Prophet
A. The Test of Agreement With Prior Revelation
Isaiah 8:20 : "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
1. The test :
a. The teachings of alleged new prophets must not contradict the teachings of old, validated, established prophets.
b. Each succeeding new prophet's utterance must agree with cumulative messages of all the preceding prophets.
c. A modern-day prophet's message must agree with Scripture.
B. The Test of Fulfillment of Prophecy
Jeremiah 28:9 : "When the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet know that the Lord has truly sent him."
Deuteronomy 18:22 : "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."
1. The test :
a. Fulfillment of predictions concerning future events.
Jane, I stuck only to Biblical Teachers.
False prophets view correction as persecution.
Teachings and testimonies that do not fit with the gospel are in darkness. They have no truth.
Teachings and testimonies that do not fit the gospel have no light because they leave out “the light of the world,” Jesus (John 8:12, ESV).
Does the message mix truth with lies?
Do their proclamations come true?
“But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’—when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:20–21, ESV
false prophets to be ignored (Deut 13:1-5; 18:21-22; Neh 6:12-13; Jer 23:25-28; Matt 7:15; 24:24; Acts 13:6; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 John 4:1-3; Rev 2:20)
“You shall have no other gods before Me” (Deut 5:7), Isa 43:10 wipes out the possiblity of becoming or being exhaulted as a god.
How to Test a Prophet | Thinking on Scripture with Dr. Steven R. Cook
The word prophet translates the Hebrew word נָבִיא nabi (Grk. προφήτης prophetes), which means “speaker, herald, preacher,”[1] and refers to one who served as the spokesman for another. For example, נָבִיא nabi was used of Aaron who was the spokesman for Moses (Ex 7:1-2). When called of God, the...
windowwalker.podbean.com
Must Harmonize with Scripture
Prophecies must come to pass --- one prophecy that does not come to pass disqualifies those like JS.
Good list of Bible texts on testing a prophet at What Does the Bible Say About Test Prophets?
According to Deut. 18:20-22:
1. He must speak in the name of the Lord, not some other god.
2. His message must be in accord with God’s revealed truth in Scripture.
3. His predictions of future events must come true exactly as predicted.
I. The Tests of a Genuine Prophet
A. The Test of Agreement With Prior Revelation
Isaiah 8:20 : "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
1. The test :
a. The teachings of alleged new prophets must not contradict the teachings of old, validated, established prophets.
b. Each succeeding new prophet's utterance must agree with cumulative messages of all the preceding prophets.
c. A modern-day prophet's message must agree with Scripture.
B. The Test of Fulfillment of Prophecy
Jeremiah 28:9 : "When the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet know that the Lord has truly sent him."
Deuteronomy 18:22 : "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him."
1. The test :
a. Fulfillment of predictions concerning future events.
Jane, I stuck only to Biblical Teachers.
Nothing like making false acusations Jane. I forgive you. Also, my last posts were not from the kkk, nor anti-lds sites.
Not false. I'm sorry that you refuse to see that and act in a Christ-like fashion. I'm done being abused by another sinner (yourself) in the name of Christ.
Good bye.
On the evening of Sept. 21 and the morning of Sept. 22, 1823, the angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith, teaching him and revealing the nearby location of an ancient record written on gold plates — the Book of Mormon. He quoted scripture about the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gathering of Israel.
www.thechurchnews.com
It was an angel who appeared to JS.
2 Corinthians 11:14
That does not surprise us, because even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light.
200th anniversary of angel Moroni’s first visits to Joseph Smith
The Church News podcast features Church Historian and Recorder, Elder Kyle S. McKay, and Keith A. Erekson of the Church History Department. They discuss the restoration and the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.
www.thechurchnews.com
It was an angel who appeared to JS.
2 Corinthians 11:14
That does not surprise us, because even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light.
I am not abusing you friend. I am only posting the truth. Thanks for the false accustation again.
I'm going to try this one last time.
I've spoken repeatedly about how Jesus Christ is divine Son of God. He is God. He has a have a spirit (a divine one) which dwells in a physical body (was mortal and flawed, now ressucected and glorified).
Is there a single part of this that you disagree with? Please keep your response short, just addressing this, and using your just own words.
I've spoken repeatedly about how Jesus Christ is divine Son of God. He is God. He has a have a spirit (a divine one) which dwells in a physical body (was mortal and flawed, now ressucected and glorified).
Is there a single part of this that you disagree with? Please keep your response short, just addressing this, and using your just own words.
Make Yourselves Gods - Reading Religion
From the perspective of Protestant America, nineteenth-century Mormons were the victims of a peculiar zealotry, a population deranged--socially, sexually, ev...
readingreligion.org
Historical Events, Notable Doctrines: Mormonism Overview
Timothy Oliver, Rick Branch, and James Walker
1805 Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, is born in Sharon, Vermont.
1820 In response to his first uttered prayer, Joseph Smith purportedly has First Vision of God the Father and Jesus (Pearl of Great Price, "Joseph Smith - History" vv. 3, 17-19). (See 1832a, 1834d, 1835a, b, 1840b, 1842a, 1855a, 1879a.)
1827 Angel Moroni gives Smith the Golden Plates which will become the Book of Mormon (Ibid., v. 59).
1830 (a) Smith finishes translation of the Golden Plates and publishes Book of Mormon (BoM). This book contains two very interesting doctrines which would become pivotal in later years. First, only one God in the Godhead (Alma 11:22-35; cf. 1842a, 1844a, c, d.) Second, David's and Solomon's polygamy was an abomination to God (Jacob 2:24-35; cf. Doctrine &Covenants, 132:38-39). (See 1838c cross dates.)
(b) April 6, church founded - Name: The Church of Christ (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 73). (See 1834b, 1838d.)
1832 (a) First Vision account recorded for the first time. Joseph Smith says he was "in the 16th year of my age," and "I saw the Lord ... (who) was crucifyed for the world." No mention of the Father (Joseph Smith's 1832 Diary). (See 1820 cross-dates.)
(b) Joseph Smith gives prophecy of temple to be built at Independence, in Jackson County, Missouri. "A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith ... to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem ... in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri ... beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord..." (D&C, 84:1-5) This proved to be a false prophecy (see 1833b, 1871, 1996b).
1833 (a) First 65 revelations printed in Book of Commandments. (See 1835c.)
(b) Mormons are driven out of Jackson County, Missouri. (See 1832b, 1871, 1996b).
1834 (a) Lectures on Faith first published for "School of the Elders" (Church News, 7 January, 1989, p. 4). (See 1835c, 1842a.)
(b) Name of church changed to "The Church of the Latter Day Saints" (Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 73). (See 1830, 1838d.)
(c) February 24, Smith receives revelation explaining persecution of Mormons in Jackson County, Missouri, wherein Independence, and the appointed temple lot are located. They are promised, "I have decreed a decree which my people shall realize, inasmuch as they hearken from this very hour unto the counsel which I, the Lord their God, shall give unto them. Behold they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour. And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given to the saints, to possess it forever" (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:5-7). This, too, proved to be a false prophecy (see 1841). (See also 1838b, 1839b, 1840a.)
(d) New First Vision information on Joseph Smith's age. "I shall, therefore, pass over that, till I come to the 15th year of his life" (Messenger and Advocate, Dec. 1834, Vol. 1, p. 42). (See 1820 cross-dates.)
(b) Mormons are driven out of Jackson County, Missouri. (See 1832b, 1871, 1996b).
1834 (a) Lectures on Faith first published for "School of the Elders" (Church News, 7 January, 1989, p. 4). (See 1835c, 1842a.)
(b) Name of church changed to "The Church of the Latter Day Saints" (Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, p. 73). (See 1830, 1838d.)
(c) February 24, Smith receives revelation explaining persecution of Mormons in Jackson County, Missouri, wherein Independence, and the appointed temple lot are located. They are promised, "I have decreed a decree which my people shall realize, inasmuch as they hearken from this very hour unto the counsel which I, the Lord their God, shall give unto them. Behold they shall, for I have decreed it, begin to prevail against mine enemies from this very hour. And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given to the saints, to possess it forever" (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:5-7). This, too, proved to be a false prophecy (see 1841). (See also 1838b, 1839b, 1840a.)
(d) New First Vision information on Joseph Smith's age. "I shall, therefore, pass over that, till I come to the 15th year of his life" (Messenger and Advocate, Dec. 1834, Vol. 1, p. 42). (See 1820 cross-dates.)
1835 (a) New First Vision information on Smith's age in Mormon newspaper, Messenger and Advocate. "You will recollect that I mentioned the time of a religious excitement, in Palmyra and vicinity to have been in the 15th year of our brother J. Smith Jr.'s, age - that was an error in type - it should have been in the 17th" (Ibid., Feb. 1835, Vol. 1, p. 76). (See 1820 cross dates.)
(b) New First Vision account. Joseph Smith writes in his diary, "...a personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame...another personage soon appeared like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testifyed unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and I saw many angels in this vision when I was about 14 years old when I received this first communication" (1835 Diary, Nov. 9). (See 1820 cross dates.)
(c) The Doctrine &Covenants, containing the Lectures on Faith (see 1842a) and the purported revelations of Joseph Smith up to this date, is published. This is a major revision of the Book of Commandments. Hundreds of words are changed from the original revelations (see 1833a). A new section on marriage (101), contains: "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. (See 1838c cross-dates.)
(d) Church purchases Egyptian papyrus manuscripts from Michael H. Chandler. Joseph Smith claims to translate them by revelation, says they were actually written by Abraham of the Bible (making them thousands of years older than any extant manuscript of the Bible). Carbon-14 and most of the sophisticated dating methods known to modern science are still unknown. Study of ancient Egyptian language is an infant science and Joseph has no contemporaries who can disprove his translation. (See 1851, 1912b, 1966a, 1967.)
(b) New First Vision account. Joseph Smith writes in his diary, "...a personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame...another personage soon appeared like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testifyed unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and I saw many angels in this vision when I was about 14 years old when I received this first communication" (1835 Diary, Nov. 9). (See 1820 cross dates.)
(c) The Doctrine &Covenants, containing the Lectures on Faith (see 1842a) and the purported revelations of Joseph Smith up to this date, is published. This is a major revision of the Book of Commandments. Hundreds of words are changed from the original revelations (see 1833a). A new section on marriage (101), contains: "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. (See 1838c cross-dates.)
(d) Church purchases Egyptian papyrus manuscripts from Michael H. Chandler. Joseph Smith claims to translate them by revelation, says they were actually written by Abraham of the Bible (making them thousands of years older than any extant manuscript of the Bible). Carbon-14 and most of the sophisticated dating methods known to modern science are still unknown. Study of ancient Egyptian language is an infant science and Joseph has no contemporaries who can disprove his translation. (See 1851, 1912b, 1966a, 1967.)
1836 First Mormon Temple is built in Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith would later claim to see Jesus, Moses, Elijah and Elias in this temple (Deseret News Church Almanac, 1979, p. 47).
1838 (a) April 17, Joseph Smith receives revelation to send David W. Patton on a mission "next spring" (1839) "in company with" other Mormon Twelve Apostles (D&C,;sec. 114; see also sec. 118). However, in October David W. Patton is shot and killed in mob action (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 171). (See 1839a.)
(b) April 26, Smith receives another revelation, wherein the people are commanded to "build a house" unto the Lord at Far West, Missouri. They were to "recommence laying the foundation of my house" one year later, 26 April, 1839, and were to "labor diligently" on it "from that time forth...until it shall be finished, from the cornerstone thereof unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished" (D&C,115:8-12). (See 1839b, 1840a, 1841, 1996b.)
(c) Church publicly denies belief in polygamy. In questions and answers prepared for and printed in The Elder's Journal, Joseph Smith writes: Q: "Do the Mormons believe in having more wives than one?" A: "No, not at the same time" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 28). (See 1829, 1835c, 1838c, 1843b, 1844b, c, 1852b, 1853, 1854c, 1855b, 1856c, 1866b, c, 1876, 1879b, 1887a, 1890a, b, 1898b, 1906, 1963.)
(d) Name of the Church changes again. "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (D&C,115:4). (See 1830, 1834b.)
(e) July 4, In a carefully prepared speech approved by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon declares, "...that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us,...one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed" (Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, p. 441). (See 1838f, 1840a.)
1838 (a) April 17, Joseph Smith receives revelation to send David W. Patton on a mission "next spring" (1839) "in company with" other Mormon Twelve Apostles (D&C,;sec. 114; see also sec. 118). However, in October David W. Patton is shot and killed in mob action (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 171). (See 1839a.)
(b) April 26, Smith receives another revelation, wherein the people are commanded to "build a house" unto the Lord at Far West, Missouri. They were to "recommence laying the foundation of my house" one year later, 26 April, 1839, and were to "labor diligently" on it "from that time forth...until it shall be finished, from the cornerstone thereof unto the top thereof, until there shall not anything remain that is not finished" (D&C,115:8-12). (See 1839b, 1840a, 1841, 1996b.)
(c) Church publicly denies belief in polygamy. In questions and answers prepared for and printed in The Elder's Journal, Joseph Smith writes: Q: "Do the Mormons believe in having more wives than one?" A: "No, not at the same time" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 28). (See 1829, 1835c, 1838c, 1843b, 1844b, c, 1852b, 1853, 1854c, 1855b, 1856c, 1866b, c, 1876, 1879b, 1887a, 1890a, b, 1898b, 1906, 1963.)
(d) Name of the Church changes again. "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (D&C,115:4). (See 1830, 1834b.)
(e) July 4, In a carefully prepared speech approved by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon declares, "...that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us,...one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed" (Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, p. 441). (See 1838f, 1840a.)
(f) October 27, Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs issues orders to militia Major-General John Clark, "...The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated, or driven from the state, if necessary for the public peace" (Document 61, LDS church Historical Department, quoted in Richard Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon, A Portrait of Religious Excess, p. 236). (See 1838e, 1840a).
1839 (a) Sometime between midnight and dawn of April 26, seven Mormon Apostles (two of them ordained on the spot) "officially" take their leave of "the saints" - eighteen of them present - for their mission to England. However, their vain attempt to fulfill Joseph Smith's prophecies of the previous year fails. David W. Patton is dead and unable to go with them as called and prophesied. Neither is there a full Quorum of Twelve in existence at the time, able to depart "in company with" each other as prophesied. Two of those in the Quorum at this time are temporarily dropped from it just eight days later. And not even all of the seven present actually go on their mission "over the waters." Of those who do, none leaves that spring as prophesied, but not until late August and September following. Frequently touted by Mormons as a "fulfilled prophecy," this "event" is in fact a complete failure (History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 336-39; Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 531-32; Vol. 2, pp. 22-24; Deseret News 1993-1994 Church Almanac, pp. 44, 46, 47, 52-54). (See 1838a.)
(b) Another cornerstone of the "Lord's House" in Far West is laid in an attempt to also fulfill Doctrine &Covenants section 115 (see 1838b). However, this also fails as the Mormons do not labor diligently from this time forward to complete the building until it is finished. They can not. The forced Mormon exodus from Missouri is in full progress. (See also 1841, 1996b.)
1840 (a)Fully routed from Missouri and settling in Commerce, Illinois, the Mormons rename it, Nauvoo.
1839 (a) Sometime between midnight and dawn of April 26, seven Mormon Apostles (two of them ordained on the spot) "officially" take their leave of "the saints" - eighteen of them present - for their mission to England. However, their vain attempt to fulfill Joseph Smith's prophecies of the previous year fails. David W. Patton is dead and unable to go with them as called and prophesied. Neither is there a full Quorum of Twelve in existence at the time, able to depart "in company with" each other as prophesied. Two of those in the Quorum at this time are temporarily dropped from it just eight days later. And not even all of the seven present actually go on their mission "over the waters." Of those who do, none leaves that spring as prophesied, but not until late August and September following. Frequently touted by Mormons as a "fulfilled prophecy," this "event" is in fact a complete failure (History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 336-39; Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 531-32; Vol. 2, pp. 22-24; Deseret News 1993-1994 Church Almanac, pp. 44, 46, 47, 52-54). (See 1838a.)
(b) Another cornerstone of the "Lord's House" in Far West is laid in an attempt to also fulfill Doctrine &Covenants section 115 (see 1838b). However, this also fails as the Mormons do not labor diligently from this time forward to complete the building until it is finished. They can not. The forced Mormon exodus from Missouri is in full progress. (See also 1841, 1996b.)
1840 (a)Fully routed from Missouri and settling in Commerce, Illinois, the Mormons rename it, Nauvoo.
@The Learner, I ask you a VERY specific question:
You totally ignored it, addresses a completely different area, and spammed many posts of links.
This is literally a straw man: rather than addressing what I say, you go off an argue against some other point. You aren't talking to me, your "friend", you're spamming at some imaginary doll you named "Jane". That's not how actual conversations work.
You totally ignored it, addresses a completely different area, and spammed many posts of links.
This is literally a straw man: rather than addressing what I say, you go off an argue against some other point. You aren't talking to me, your "friend", you're spamming at some imaginary doll you named "Jane". That's not how actual conversations work.
(b) New First Vision information. "You will recollect that I informed you, in my letter published in the first No. of the Messenger and Advocate, that this history would necessarily embrace the life and character of our esteemed friend and brother J. Smith...I shall, therefore, pass over that, till I come to the thirteenth year of this life" (Times and Seasons, Dec. 1, 1840, p. 1). (See 1820 cross-dates.)
(c) Lorenzo Snow, who will become fifth prophet of the Mormon Church, receives the following "revelation" according to his own words. "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." This is explicitly confirmed by Joseph Smith in 1843 (Ensign, Feb. 1982, pp. 39-40).
1841 January 19: in a revelation requiring the saints to build both a boarding house and a temple in Nauvoo, Smith finds it necessary to allay concerns over previous failed prophecies and commands to build temples (see 1832b, 1833b, 1838b, 1839b). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept their offering....Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God" (D&C, 124:49, 51). By thus acknowledging both their diligence to obey and their failure to succeed due to their enemies, Smith inadvertantly contradicts promise of revelation given seven years previous (see 1834c), that if the saints diligently obeyed they would from that time forth always prevail over their enemies.
1842 (a) Section 130 is added to the Doctrine &Covenants, in which God the Father is declared to have "a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," and the Holy Spirit is said to be "a personage of Spirit." Official First Vision account also finally published. This is the account found today in the Mormon Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, in which God the Father and Jesus appear to Joseph Smith in separate physical bodies. (See 1820 cross-dates.) These two additions conflict with former teachings contained in the Lectures on Faith, which from 1835 have been the "Doctrine" part of the Mormon scripture, Doctrine &Covenants (see Preface, "Lecture First" and "Section 1," D&C,;1835 ed.). The Lectures on Faith describe not the Holy Ghost, but God the Father as a "personage of spirit." They call the Holy Ghost the Holy Spirit, and include the Holy Spirit in the Godhead. However there are only two personages in the Godhead, the Father and the Son (cf. 1829, 1844a, d). The Holy Spirit is described as merely the mind shared by the Father and the Son (N.B. Lundwall, comp., Lectures on Faith, Lec. 5, pp. 48-53). Publication of all these conflicting teachings together in the same volume of scripture for many years (see 1921) inevitably leads to unbiblical Momon distinction between Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost.
(c) Lorenzo Snow, who will become fifth prophet of the Mormon Church, receives the following "revelation" according to his own words. "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." This is explicitly confirmed by Joseph Smith in 1843 (Ensign, Feb. 1982, pp. 39-40).
1841 January 19: in a revelation requiring the saints to build both a boarding house and a temple in Nauvoo, Smith finds it necessary to allay concerns over previous failed prophecies and commands to build temples (see 1832b, 1833b, 1838b, 1839b). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept their offering....Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God" (D&C, 124:49, 51). By thus acknowledging both their diligence to obey and their failure to succeed due to their enemies, Smith inadvertantly contradicts promise of revelation given seven years previous (see 1834c), that if the saints diligently obeyed they would from that time forth always prevail over their enemies.
1842 (a) Section 130 is added to the Doctrine &Covenants, in which God the Father is declared to have "a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," and the Holy Spirit is said to be "a personage of Spirit." Official First Vision account also finally published. This is the account found today in the Mormon Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, in which God the Father and Jesus appear to Joseph Smith in separate physical bodies. (See 1820 cross-dates.) These two additions conflict with former teachings contained in the Lectures on Faith, which from 1835 have been the "Doctrine" part of the Mormon scripture, Doctrine &Covenants (see Preface, "Lecture First" and "Section 1," D&C,;1835 ed.). The Lectures on Faith describe not the Holy Ghost, but God the Father as a "personage of spirit." They call the Holy Ghost the Holy Spirit, and include the Holy Spirit in the Godhead. However there are only two personages in the Godhead, the Father and the Son (cf. 1829, 1844a, d). The Holy Spirit is described as merely the mind shared by the Father and the Son (N.B. Lundwall, comp., Lectures on Faith, Lec. 5, pp. 48-53). Publication of all these conflicting teachings together in the same volume of scripture for many years (see 1921) inevitably leads to unbiblical Momon distinction between Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost.
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