What is the gospel?

[Episkopos]

Are you familiar with the wording in that passage, the use of ergon, complared to katergadzomai? That we work out what He works into us (keeping in mind the difference in those words), this to you indicates an incomplete salvation which we must make complete? That we aren't really saved until we've finished our life, and "won the race of faith"?

We can be saved from sin right now by entering into Christ to put on His perfection...in truth, power and reality...not in a religious dogmatic scheme that has no power over the flesh.

The race must be run to the end to INHERIT life...into eternity. Read what God says about justification in Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33. It's not how we begin a race, it's about how we finish it. (And of course how we run, according to the rules or not)

When we believe, and receive Jesus, we are immersed into Him, but that's not something we do for ourselves. God does that. Are we agreed on that? You aren't talking about something like "believing our way into Christ", if you know what I'm saying?

Who's the "we"? Many will falsely claim to be Christ's. What I find is that those who ignore Jesus' teachings will never allow Him to speak...rather they generalize according to a religious dogmatic scheme that has zero effect in truth and reality. But judgment is coming...where all will be revealed.

To answer your question, no, that we work out (do the performing of) what He works into us (doing a work), does not in the least sound strange to me. But the idea that our contribution an any wise resembles Jesus' contribution, that is very strange to me. Jesus is the Author AND finisher of our faith. I do not believe in a cooperative effort and process over the course of my life that garners salvation to me, where without my ongoing contribution it won't happen.

We need to go to God personally to enter into Christ in order to get the FULL MEASURE of His grace...which is the finishing of our faith. From there we walk in the faith OF Christ. Have you been to the throne of grace?

I believe that Jesus Christ completed the work of salvation in His death and resurrection, and that having believed, and received, God has immersed me into Jesus, and I have been co-crucified with Him, co-raised with Him, to live a new life, being in Him. I believe that being in Him results in regeneration, resurrection of a living spirit, united forever to God by His Spirit.

Either we are baptized into Christ, and are regenerated, united to God, "saved", or we are not.

I'll be happy to supply the Scriptures for all of these statements should you wish.

Regeneration is the first step in a race of faith. Go to God for the full measure. A baby remains helpless until some maturity is experienced. Go to God to receive the strength to walk as Jesus walked.

No, again, the false dichotomy I'm seeing is when you are presenting your view, that we must successfully complete our race of faith in order to complete our salvation, and if we aren't doing that, then we are just making a false claim of something we have no right to.

You had written:

The false dichotomy here is in offering either an unfinished salvation which you must finish, or a finished salvation which is nothing more than a name it claim it scheme. But a third alternative is a finished salvation that is real. And this the Bible teaches.

And it's right that it should be that way, as all who glory, let them glory in the Lord.


Romans 4:1-8 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Your statement that I've underlined is at odds with Romans 4. God justifies the ungodly, counting their faith, not their works, or their efforts, but their faith for righteousness.

When I say that the ungodly in the world can still be justified by God...being ungodly in their lack of power...some will say that I'm an inclusivist. Are you claiming to be ungodly for the sake of justification?

I fully agree with you, empty professions, naming and claiming, blab and grab (I always liked that one), don't matter. However, believing on Him Who justifies the ungodly, that matters. Being forgiven, being regenerated, these are what matter.

It's a start.

And Paul tells us very plainly these do not come because we've done things to earn them, or make them happen, God has to do these for us. And He does, when we believe, and receive. He makes it simple. Not easy, simple. All who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.

yes, the Lord delivers us from evil when we call upon Him. But make no mistake, the ones who looked at the brazen serpent in the wilderness were indeed saved that day...but they ultimately perished because of unbelief.

Without a love for the truth, what's the point? We've both seen plenty of posts that should never have been written, I'm certain!

Much love!

I have read your posts...so I agree with you. ;)

 

[Lizbeth]

The difficulty in receiving the gospel nowadays and my commentary on this ....lies in the fact that religious institutions have attempted to reverse engineer the biblical narrative to arrive at a place that they already are. There is no race of faith for these. No, it's all a done deal...it is finished. Just name it and claim it. You can claim to be justified for agreeing with a set of dogmatic beliefs. Is that why Jesus had to die?

The truth is so much more wonderful and glorious. But it must be received as a child, not a human reasoning that by long practice has abandoned the way of faith. Who now believes that they can do all things through Christ...or that with God nothing is impossible? All who are of the truth hear His voice.

This is what you seem to have difficulty understanding, because it can only be received and perceived by the Holy Spirit....spiritually discerned. Salvation is both a done deal as well as a race to be run. BOTH at the same time. A kind of paradox. We have both already been saved but also must work out our salvation. Go figure.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think you might be right brother. That would explain those off-the-wall false assumptions and accusations about us....from wrongly assuming we are the same as he once was. Makes sense.

Those who believe Jesus came to bring unity and world peace had better read what He said about coming not to bring peace but a sword. And that sword DIVIDES sheep from goats and SEPARATES believers from the world. There is unity of the HOLY Spirit and there is a false unity under the spirit of the WORLD which masquerades as being true, but which as you said can be DISCERNED. But we who believe have not received the spirit of the world, rather we received the Holy Spirit which SEPARATES us from the spirit of the world by His double edged sword, which again DIVIDES soul from spirit. CHOP! My, that almost sounds, what, DIVISIVE?? Dirty word in today's politically correct, aka spirit of the world, mindset. LOL!

The problem , the very core problem of this inclusive love religoin .
Epi and others are now doing all to teach certain points , teachings of JESUS CHRIST
and yet omit the DIRE NEED to have BELIEVED ON HIM .
Inclusivists simply believe the aspect of teaching certain things JESUS said, thinking this is what will save the world .
Meaning teaching things like the golden rule , BUT teaching it to all relgioins .
You see the created their own religoin . THEY think and believe if you can simply teach aspects
about the cross , about Jesus about some of his teachings , YET omit the fundamental truths which also include
the dire need to have beleived on HIM , that this is the gospel plan . AKA its the social gospel .
THis too is how they are linking all religoins to come together as one . They found certain things in the relgions
that aligned with certain things JESUS said . THEN try and also plant its these certain ideals
like doing good works or loving your neighbor as yourself , That prove that GOD was in all religoins
but man brought into these religoins his own fundamental beliefs . Thus in essence
they teach there is TRUTH in every religoin , we just need to focus on that common love . ITS ALL A LIE of course .
BUT they really do believe GOD is fine with whatever relgion one follows , so long as they have the common love etc .
THEY DONT REALIZE satan always used certain teachings of JESUS all the while under the guise of a false god or religoin .
YOU SEE works save none , SATAN knows that . SO his real goal was to have CHRISTANITY itself
to cease with the TRUE GOSPEL that does save and rather just find common ground under a lie he calls love . Its working
on many . But not on the lambs it dont . WE GONNA preach to the end the ONLY GOSPEL that saves .
THE BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST . but mark my words , SOON this will be seen as HATE and DIVISIVE and in the way .
OH WAIT it already is beginning to be seen like that . Yep . a strong delusion to believe a lie that unites the world as one
HAS BEGAN , they call it love . only IT AINT LOVE and IT AINT OF GOD EITHER

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I pray that you will one day understand the God of mercy.

I pray one day you will understand, So you can share gods mercy with us

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We can be saved from sin right now by entering into Christ to put on His perfection...in truth, power and reality...not in a religious dogmatic scheme that has no power over the flesh.

what good is being saved from future sin, when your guilty of past sin and will be more guilty from future sin?

the penalty of sin is death, saving you from future sin will nto make you alive

 

[marks]

I have read your posts...so I agree with you.

Try as we might to have a serious discussion, you just can't seem to help yourself, and that's too bad! In the past, once you begin this course, it only becomes worse, and quickly. So I've learned it's not healthy for you that I should continue.

I'm hoping you can receive this, not another word need be said on it if you'll let go that behavior.

With love and sadness!

 

[amigo de christo]

what good is being saved from future sin, when your guilty of past sin and will be more guilty from future sin?

the penalty of sin is death, saving you from future sin will nto make you alive

WHAT GOOD is it to have never BEEN SAVED to BEGIN WITH . i mean some folks can preach
all day about aspects of the cross , some of JESUS teachings and yet
if they think muslims , athiest and any other who dont believe HE is the CHRIST are saved
and can pick up their own cross . WELL what a grand lie that is .
Cause what was it JESUS said the HOLY SPIRIT would do
CONVICT the WORLD of SIN , OF SIN because what .......................THEY BELEIEVE NOT ON ME .
SO what use is anything this man teaches gonna do anyone any good if they dont even know that or teach it .
Its like i been saying all along . Its like a man that knows aspects of truth . SO HE knows he needs a horse
a cart and wheels . ONLY problem HE PUTS THE HORSE IN THE CART and ties the wheels on his back
and HE TRIES to then pull the HORSE in the cart . THAT AINT GONNA WORK . NOW IS IT .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Try as we might to have a serious discussion, you just can't seem to help yourself, and that's too bad! In the past, once you begin this course, it only becomes worse, and quickly. So I've learned it's not healthy for you that I should continue.

I'm wondering, do you do this hoping I'll go away, and not respond? Or is it just ingrained in you to belittle others?

I'm hoping you can receive this, not another word need be said on it if you'll let go that behavior.

With love and sadness!

I was actually glad people stopped responding. I thought finally people just let it Go, (I think we all know by now. He will not change his tune or his actions)

sadly. My hopes were dashed.

 

[Lizbeth]

I pray that you will one day understand the God of mercy.

I think in terms of God being a Person.....and like any person He has more than one gear and more than one character trait. Sometimes He shows mercy, sometimes He demonstrates His righteous justice and the scriptures are full of examples that we might learn and give Him the fear that is rightfully due Him. We are to "behold both the goodness and severity of God."

So you want to talk about God's mercy. And how does one obtain His mercy? The Lord has only provided one way. Mercy is only found in Christ, for that is how the Father chose to ordain it. Receive Christ, receive mercy. He IS our mercy. There is no going boldly to the throne of grace without Him...we have to first be sanctified by His blood. That's why the priests had to be washed and purified and offer blood before entering the Holy of Holies.....otherwise they would die in there and have to be dragged out by the rope tied to their ankle. If any try to enter the sheepfold by any other way..... well we know what Jesus said about that, they would likewise be expelled and subject to wrath. How about those who try to enter the wedding feast without being properly clothed in wedding garments? And Jesus is our wedding garment, we receive and put Him on, the new man Christ, His Spirit. Need to be ensconced in the cleft of the rock or likewise die. The scriptures are full of these truths....how can anyone not see it? If they can't see it it's because they are blinded by the god of this world.....spiritually deceived.

But why did God do it this way? Seems one reason is because it tests hearts. Jesus is a stumbling block and offense to many....ordained for foreknown to be so by God in order to test hearts. Maybe we could say in a way God didn't make this easy on purpose. To receive Him is by yielding and submitting to Him, allowing Him IN to now rule our personal "territory"...allowing Him to annex us into His kingdom so to speak. Nobody gets to be part of a kingdom without being in submission to the King of that kingdom.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think in terms of God being a Person.....and like any person He has more than one gear and more than one character trait. Sometimes He shows mercy, sometimes He demonstrates His righteous justice and the scriptures are full of examples that we might learn and give Him the fear that is rightfully due Him. We are to "behold both the goodness and severity of God."

So you want to talk about God's mercy. And how does one obtain His mercy? The Lord has only provided one way. Mercy is only found in Christ, for that is how the Father chose to ordain it. Receive Christ, receive mercy. He IS our mercy. There is no going boldly to the throne of grace without Him...we have to first be sanctified by His blood. That's why the priests had to be washed and purified and offer blood before entering the Holy of Holies.....otherwise they would die in there and have to be dragged out by the rope tied to their ankle. If any try to enter the sheepfold by any other way..... well we know what Jesus said about that, they would likewise be expelled and subject to wrath. How about those who try to enter the wedding feast without being properly clothed in wedding garments? And Jesus is our wedding garment, we receive and put Him on, the new man Christ, His Spirit. Need to be ensconced in the cleft of the rock or likewise die. The scriptures are full of these truths....how can anyone not see it? If they can't see it it's because they are blinded by the god of this world.....spiritually deceived.

But why did God do it this way? Seems one reason is because it tests hearts. Jesus is a stumbling block and offense to many....ordained for foreknown to be so by God in order to test hearts. Maybe we could say in a way God didn't make this easy on purpose. To receive Him is by yielding and submitting to Him, allowing Him IN to now rule our personal "territory"...allowing Him to annex us into His kingdom so to speak. Nobody gets to be part of a kingdom without being in submission to the King of that kingdom.

The man knows nothing of the mercy OF GOD . IF HE DID he would have PREACHED THE DIRE NEED to HAVE BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST
and not this Cart before the HORSE approach he has been teaching . IF a man does not stress
the DIRE NEED to have to FIRST BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST , then no matter if they do teach certains truths or not
ITS ALL VAIN . NO MERCY . ONLY JUDGMENT . JESUS CHRIST IS THE MERCY OF GOD given unto the world
so that all who do beleive would not PERISh but rather have ever lasting life .
Inclusivism and its co workes KNOW NOTHING of the LOVE or MERCY of GOD . HAD they , they would have fast repented
of the judgment of damnation they be preaching to the world as they offer up a false hope under the guise
of what they THINK is love , to the world . TIME WE PREACH JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED
and not be as epi who preaches rather , Mans ability to crucify himself , WITHOUT having to had believed on JESUS CHRIST .
IF you look at what he teaches this sums it up . ITS a man made religoin that omits the FACT of the DIRE NEED TO HAVE
to believe on JESUS CHRIST and rather says , BELIEVE YE IN YOURSELF , YE have the power WITHIN YOU
to CRUCIFY YOURSELF , SAVE YOURSELF ,
Ye are gods.......................DO THAT SOUND FAMILIAR .