gay christians?

[Arthur81]

No - you won't

The Catholic Church has NEVER done an about-face onn a SINGLE doctrinal matte in 2000 years - unlike viurtuakky EVERY Protestant faction has.

How do you like them apples?

You may find the following of interest as to the RCC ever changing doctrine in 2000 years.

Which Roman Catholic Church are we referring to? In which century, and with what new invention. The list starts on page 3: https://www.tlchrist.info/keithgreen/boettner_romancatholocism.pdf

I have done research on some of these inventions in other reference works and found this to be accurate, as far as I checked.

SOME ROMAN CATHOLIC HERESIES AND INVENTIONS
and the dates of their adoption over a period of 1,650 years
1. Prayers for the dead: began about A.D. 300.
2. Making the sign of the cross: A.D. 300.
3. Wax candles: about A.D. 320.
4. Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images: A.D. 375.
5. The Mass, as a daily celebration: A.D. 394.
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary, the term “Mother of God” first applied to her by
the Council of Ephesus: A.D. 431.
7. Priests began to dress differently from laymen: A.D. 500.
8. Extreme Unction: A.D. 526.
9. The doctrine of Purgatory, established by Gregory I: A.D. 593.
10. Latin language, used in prayer and worship, imposed by Gregory I: A.D. 600.
11. Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints, and angels: about A.D. 600.
12. Title of pope, or universal bishop, given to Boniface III by emperor Phocas: A.D. 607
13. Kissing the pope’s foot, began with Pope Constantine: A.D. 709.
14. Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin, king of the Franks: A.D. 750.
15. Worship of the cross, images, and relics: authorized in A.D. 786.
16. Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest: A.D. 850.
17. Worship of St. Joseph: A.D. 890.
18. College of Cardinals established: A.D. 927.
19. Baptism of bells, instituted by pope John XIII: A.D. 965.
20. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV: A.D. 995.
21. Fasting on Fridays and during Lent: A.D. 998.
22. The Mass, developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatory in the 11
th
century.
23. Celibacy of the priesthood, decreed by pope Gregory VII (Hildebrand): A.D. 1079.
24. The Rosary, mechanical praying with beads, invented by Peter the Hermit: A.D. 1090.
25. The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona: A.D. 1184.
26. Sale of Indulgences: A.D. 1190.
27. Transubstantiation, proclaimed by Pope Innocent III: A.D. 1215.
28. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest instead of to God, instituted by Pope Innocent
III, in Lateran Council: A.D. 1215.
29. Adoration of the wafer (Host), decreed by Pope Honorius III: A.D. 1220.
30. Bible forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council of
Toulouse: A.D. 1229.
31. The Scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk: A.D. 1251.
32. Cup forbidden to the people at communion by Council of Constance: A.D. 1414.
33. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of Florence: A.D. 1439.
34. The doctrine of Seven Sacraments affirmed: A.D. 1439.
35. The Ave Maria (part of the last half was completed 50 years later and approved by
Pope Sixtus V at the end of the 16
th
century): A.D. 1508.
36. Jesuit order founded by Loyola: A.D. 1534.
37. Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D.
1545.
38. Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D. 1546.
39. Creed of pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed: A.D. 1560.
40. Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX: A.D. 1854.
41. Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified by the Vatican Council;
condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries
which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the pope’s temporal authority over
all civil rulers: A.D. 1864.
42. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican
Council: A.D. 1870.
43. Public Schools condemned by Pope Pius XI: A.D. 1930.
44. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death),
proclaimed by Pope Pius XII: A.D. 1950.
45. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI: A.D. 1965.
Add to these many others: monks, nuns, monasteries, convents, forty days Lent, holy
week, Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, All Saints day, Candlemas day, fish day, meat
days, incense, holy oil, holy palms, Christopher medals, charms, novenas, and still others.

 

[marks]

Wow Dan, good job ......you not only degrade your own family on a public site.......which is embarrassing for you and shows your poor character.....you also degrade the members of that same public site. You are a real sweetheart to be around, aren't you now?

You say they are dead. The Bible teaches that they are alive, in Christ, and in heaven! Your theory is that my sin filled soul here on earth can pray for you but a soul in heaven with no sin and with God already can't pray for you? Hmmmmm......your theory needs some tweeks!

Scripture speaks of the prayers of the faithful living on earth going thru saints in heaven to God! But I already know that you are not truly interested in having a discussion and I am just another freaky catholic soooooo why waste my time teaching you Scripture?

This entirely avoided answering this direct question.

In fact the Bible prohibits attempting to communicate with those who have passed from this world to the next.

Much love!

 

[Illuminator]

You may find the following of interest as to the RCC ever changing doctrine in 2000 years.

Which Roman Catholic Church are we referring to? In which century, and with what new invention. The list starts on page 3: https://www.tlchrist.info/keithgreen/boettner_romancatholocism.pdf

I have done research on some of these inventions in other reference works and found this to be accurate, as far as I checked.

SOME ROMAN CATHOLIC HERESIES AND INVENTIONS
and the dates of their adoption over a period of 1,650 years
1. Prayers for the dead: began about A.D. 300.
2. Making the sign of the cross: A.D. 300.
3. Wax candles: about A.D. 320.
4. Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images: A.D. 375.
5. The Mass, as a daily celebration: A.D. 394.
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary, the term “Mother of God” first applied to her by
the Council of Ephesus: A.D. 431.
7. Priests began to dress differently from laymen: A.D. 500.
8. Extreme Unction: A.D. 526.
9. The doctrine of Purgatory, established by Gregory I: A.D. 593.
10. Latin language, used in prayer and worship, imposed by Gregory I: A.D. 600.
11. Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints, and angels: about A.D. 600.
12. Title of pope, or universal bishop, given to Boniface III by emperor Phocas: A.D. 607
13. Kissing the pope’s foot, began with Pope Constantine: A.D. 709.
14. Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin, king of the Franks: A.D. 750.
15. Worship of the cross, images, and relics: authorized in A.D. 786.
16. Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest: A.D. 850.
17. Worship of St. Joseph: A.D. 890.
18. College of Cardinals established: A.D. 927.
19. Baptism of bells, instituted by pope John XIII: A.D. 965.
20. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV: A.D. 995.
21. Fasting on Fridays and during Lent: A.D. 998.
22. The Mass, developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatory in the 11
th
century.
23. Celibacy of the priesthood, decreed by pope Gregory VII (Hildebrand): A.D. 1079.
24. The Rosary, mechanical praying with beads, invented by Peter the Hermit: A.D. 1090.
25. The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona: A.D. 1184.
26. Sale of Indulgences: A.D. 1190.
27. Transubstantiation, proclaimed by Pope Innocent III: A.D. 1215.
28. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest instead of to God, instituted by Pope Innocent
III, in Lateran Council: A.D. 1215.
29. Adoration of the wafer (Host), decreed by Pope Honorius III: A.D. 1220.
30. Bible forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council of
Toulouse: A.D. 1229.
31. The Scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk: A.D. 1251.
32. Cup forbidden to the people at communion by Council of Constance: A.D. 1414.
33. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of Florence: A.D. 1439.
34. The doctrine of Seven Sacraments affirmed: A.D. 1439.
35. The Ave Maria (part of the last half was completed 50 years later and approved by
Pope Sixtus V at the end of the 16
th
century): A.D. 1508.
36. Jesuit order founded by Loyola: A.D. 1534.
37. Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D.
1545.
38. Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D. 1546.
39. Creed of pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed: A.D. 1560.
40. Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX: A.D. 1854.
41. Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified by the Vatican Council;
condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries
which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the pope’s temporal authority over
all civil rulers: A.D. 1864.
42. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican
Council: A.D. 1870.
43. Public Schools condemned by Pope Pius XI: A.D. 1930.
44. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death),
proclaimed by Pope Pius XII: A.D. 1950.
45. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI: A.D. 1965.
Add to these many others: monks, nuns, monasteries, convents, forty days Lent, holy
week, Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, All Saints day, Candlemas day, fish day, meat
days, incense, holy oil, holy palms, Christopher medals, charms, novenas, and still others.

Lorraine Boettner??? Seriously? You call that "research"?

When one reads enough of this material, one becomes aware they all fall back on one source, Loraine Boettner’s work, Roman Catholicism, published in 1962 by Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company of Philadelphia and reprinted many times since.
This book is the origin of much of what professional anti-Catholics distribute. It can be called the “bible” of the anti-Catholic movement.
At first glance Roman Catholicism seems impressive. Its 460 large pages of text are closely packed with quotations. The table of contents is broken down into dozens of categories, and the indices, though skimpy, at least are there. But a careful reading makes it clear that the author’s antagonism toward the Catholic Church has gravely compromised his intellectual objectivity.

Boettner accepts at face value virtually any claim made by an opponent of the Church. Even when verification of a charge is easy, he does not bother to check it out. If he finds something unflattering to Catholicism, he prints it.

The Anti-Catholic Bible

Loraine Boettner’s work, Roman Catholicism, is the source of many modern anti-Catholic claims, but the book is fraught with problems.

www.catholic.com

 

[marks]

Lorraine Boettner??? Seriously? You call that "research"?

When one reads enough of this material, one becomes aware they all fall back on one source, Loraine Boettner’s work, Roman Catholicism, published in 1962 by Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company of Philadelphia and reprinted many times since.
This book is the origin of much of what professional anti-Catholics distribute. It can be called the “bible” of the anti-Catholic movement.
At first glance Roman Catholicism seems impressive. Its 460 large pages of text are closely packed with quotations. The table of contents is broken down into dozens of categories, and the indices, though skimpy, at least are there. But a careful reading makes it clear that the author’s antagonism toward the Catholic Church has gravely compromised his intellectual objectivity.

Boettner accepts at face value virtually any claim made by an opponent of the Church. Even when verification of a charge is easy, he does not bother to check it out. If he finds something unflattering to Catholicism, he prints it.

The Anti-Catholic Bible

Loraine Boettner’s work, Roman Catholicism, is the source of many modern anti-Catholic claims, but the book is fraught with problems.

www.catholic.com

You attack the source/author on a personal level, but you didn't refute any of the claims.

Huh? What kind of response it that? Are the claims true then?

Much love!

 

[Illuminator]

This entirely avoided answering this direct question.

In fact the Bible prohibits attempting to communicate with those who have passed from this world to the next.

Much love!

A gross misrepresentation? with "Much love"? The doctrine of the Communion of Saints has been explained 1000 times, it has nothing to do with the sin of necromancy. It's another stupid canard based on ignorance, prejudice and biblical illiteracy.

Dialogue On The Rich Man Praying To Abraham (Luke 16)

Reply regarding my use of the story of Lazarus & the rich man (Lk 16:19-31), & the latter praying to Abraham, in defense of the intercession of the saints.

www.patheos.com

 

[amigo de christo]

Aren't you glad that the Christian churches are filling up with these wonderful Christians?

REPENTANT SINNERS . that be the KEY .
You have fallen for a ruse my friend . IF You believe , as i once did , that folks who embrace and honor their sins
truly KNOW GOD OR CHRIST . I ought to know i was worst o many of them .
GOD leads us to REPENTANCE , NOT ACCEPTANCE and JUSTIFICATION OF OUR SINS , but REPENTANCE FROM OUR SINS .
DO KEEP THAT IN MIND the next time these lovey do baffoons try and stand up to justify and to honor ANY SIN in any CHURCH .

 

[amigo de christo]

I guess for the same reason it doesn't matter what you think about "Christian homosexuals.
But I did not ask you if it mattered I asked you for your opinion as them being your brothers in Christ?

any who is called brother or sister , WHAT DID PAUL write for the church to do .
HE said BUT IF ANY be called a brother is covteous , etc , that do include praticing homosexuality
YA DONT EVEN EAT WITH SUCH A ONE . YEAH TRY TO REMEMBER THAT .
ALL SIN , no matter THE SIN , MUST BE CORRECTED WITHIN THE CHURCH . Dont be as i once was
cause though i thought i too knew CHRIST and GOD , I SERVED THE DEVIL and his agenda . DONT BE LIKE I ONCE WAS .
TIME WE GOT IN THE BIBLE DUDE , get busy learning THAT DOCTRINE

 

[Mink57]

You attack the source/author on a personal level, but you didn't refute any of the claims.

Huh? What kind of response it that? Are the claims true then?

Much love!

Probably because the "source"/author didn't provide any verifiable reliable sources for his claims. Until a verifiable reliable source is provided, his claims remain only as opinion and not fact.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think it doesn't matter what I think about "Christian homosexuals."

Welcome to the forum (I think).

Why are you anxious for people to know you are a racist?

.

define racist please . I would like to know what YOU SEE racists as being . cause sadly most folks think
if ya warn the church against the SIN of HOMOSEXUALITY , somehow that is racism . IT AINT .
SEE the SKIN COLOR we are born is NOT SIN . BUT HOMOSEXUALITY , NOW that IS SIN .

 

[marks]

Probably because the "source"/author didn't provide any verifiable reliable sources for his claims. Until a verifiable reliable source is provided, his claims remain only as opinion and not fact.

I just can't help but notice the discussion style, for me, it speaks for itself. You can refute the information, but just attack the source, and we can see the result of that choice.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Probably because the "source"/author didn't provide any verifiable reliable sources for his claims. Until a verifiable reliable source is provided, his claims remain only as opinion and not fact.

Let us always remember , ITS NOT the COLOR OF OUR SKIN that is sin . But homosexuality IS STILL SIN TO GOD .
being born black , white , or any other ethnicity is not the sin . BUT SIN IS SIN . and man with man and woman with woman
IS STILL SEEN as SIN IN THE EYES OF GOD . THUS , it like any other sin , MUST be corrected WITHIN THE CHURCH .
NOT BLESSED , not overlooked and given a free pass , BUT CORRECTED . lest ye think
we ought to also start celebrating the sin of murder too . DONT JUDGE , if you give the sin of homsexuality a pass
THEN ye may as well open up your church , put up pictures of murdered people and simply say
HEY WE WELCOME ALL . EXactly . WE DONT PANDER TO SIN TO WIN . WE PREACH JESUS CHRIST to win
and we DO USE the law for correction on those who behave ungodly . OOPS , yeah that is in the bible too . paul knew
they all knew . BUT TODAYS all inclusive HELL TRAIN dont know as it dont know SQUAT .

 

[Illuminator]

You attack the source/author on a personal level, but you didn't refute any of the claims.

I'm not going to flood the thread with plenty of refutations that Arthur refuses to read. Lorraine Boettner is a proven liar.

Huh? What kind of response it that? Are the claims true then?

Much love!

Your claim (which amounts to necromancy) is stupid and insulting, which is automatic with anti-Catholics, as proven by my links that you and Arthur refuse to deal with.

 

[marks]

A gross misrepresentation? with "Much love"? The doctrine of the Communion of Saints has been explained 1000 times, it has nothing to do with the sin of necromancy. It's another stupid canard based on ignorance, prejudice and biblical illiteracy.

Dialogue On The Rich Man Praying To Abraham (Luke 16)

Reply regarding my use of the story of Lazarus & the rich man (Lk 16:19-31), & the latter praying to Abraham, in defense of the intercession of the saints.

www.patheos.com

So you are saying that the Bible approves when we attempt to communicate with the dead? We must be reading different Bibles. I can show my POV from Scripture in a single passage, I can even select from different ones.

Will you require 5 pages of sophisty to show that we really are OK to communicate with our dead relatives, or the ancients? Because I don't see it in the Bible.

I find truth to be simple and clear, and your personal attacks speak another simple and clear truth. Or don't you think so?'

BTW . . . your example of the rich man and Lazarus? Apples and Oranges. I'd think any one could see that. Is it meant to mislead?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm not going to flood the thread with plenty of refutations that you refuse to read.

Don't put this on me. If you don't want to, you don't have to, but that's your choice and you could own it, should you wish.

More poor discussion!

Much love!

 

[Taken]

YOU have proven it in your writings.

Learn the difference between an accusation and evidence of proof.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

here is the question: "Does the Messiah there come to save he gentiles from their sins? Or the Jews?"

How does this:

It is too little, he says, for you to be my servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and restore the survivors of Israel; I will make you a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.

not answer it?

I'll say this and then that's it. Christians have not been taught about Judaism,our faiths supposed roots,in a proper manner.

The Tanakh is not our Old Testament. And our Old Testament is not the Tanakh.

No.

Thank you.Then you have no valid issue with my prior statement. You are Catholic.Not Christian.
Catholics follow Christs teachings through the vehicle and authority of their church.
There is no salvation outside that church.

I know many actual Catholics. When asked , are you a Christian?
They answer, no, I'm a Catholic.
Actual Catholics know the difference.
Christians are saved by grace through faith. This is the gift of God. Not of our own doing,work,so that we cannot boast.

 

[Taken]

So you are saying that the Bible approves when we attempt to communicate with the dead? We must be reading different Bibles. I can show my POV from Scripture in a single passage, I can even select from different ones.

Will you require 5 pages of sophisty to show that we really are OK to communicate with our dead relatives, or the ancients? Because I don't see it in the Bible.

I find truth to be simple and clear, and your personal attacks speak another simple and clear truth. Or don't you think so?'

BTW . . . your example of the rich man and Lazarus? Apples and Oranges. I'd think any one could see that. Is it meant to mislead?

Much love!

You know the ideology….for every claim that is not true, back-tracking, is built upon a claim that is not true…

Speaking to the dead, is NOT Gods Teaching. Oh…then claim speaking to Mary is okay, Because she is not dead. See how that works?

Except that; Mary Had a natural born Earthly Body, Naturally Born in sin and her Body IS Bodily Dead, buried, and returning to Dust, just as Scripture teaches IS required for Every Earthly Body.

 

[marks]

You know the ideology….for every claim that is not true, back-tracking, is built upon a claim that is not true…

Speaking to the dead, is NOT Gods Teaching. Oh…then claim speaking to Mary is okay, Because she is not dead. See how that works?

Except that; Mary Had a natural born Earthly Body, Naturally Born in sin and her Body IS Bodily Dead, buried, and returning to Dust, just as Scripture teaches IS required for Every Earthly Body.

He shows the rich man and Lazarus speaking within the same realm as it that gives tacit approval to those in this realm speaking to those in that realm.

And through it all . . . Jesus told His disciples that they wouldn't even ask HIM for things, but that they would address the Heavenly Father directly. If they weren't going to direct their prayers to Jesus, why would they direct their prayers to Mary? Or another Christian?

Would you insist, after the Master has told you to speak directly with Him, would you spit on that by insisting to speak to someone else, thinking they will be your emissary who will be received while you are not?

How would you feel if your spouse insisted an calling the neighbor to pass along their messages to you? What kind of relationship is that?

Much love!

 

[Mink57]

You know the ideology….for every claim that is not true, back-tracking, is built upon a claim that is not true…

Speaking to the dead, is NOT Gods Teaching. Oh…then claim speaking to Mary is okay, Because she is not dead. See how that works?

Except that; Mary Had a natural born Earthly Body, Naturally Born in sin and her Body IS Bodily Dead, buried, and returning to Dust, just as Scripture teaches IS required for Every Earthly Body.

Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah. Both of the them had "natural born Earthly Bodies."

Did Jesus sin?

 

[Mr E]

It's a ridiculous game of make-believe that catholics play. They want you to play along.

"Our doctrines have never changed!" --- they've developed. And though what they are now, has no resemblance to what they once were, they pretend that understanding and interpreting and practicing certain beliefs that are quite contrary to the earlier doctrines-- this doesn't constitute "change."

It's laughable. And you would have to pinch your nose, and hold your breath to avoid retching to accept this mantra, never mind support such theological theatrics, yet many here are more than willing.

It's like saying you have a two-thousand-year-old baby, that's never changed. I know my "kid" doesn't look the same at the age of 30 that he did at the age of three, but Catholics would argue-- "It's the same person! Never changed!"

It's pretty clear even in just this one thread. Folks are fed up with Catholic nonsense.