gay christians?
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Illuminator
Well-Known Member
The rich man prayed to Abraham, who is not God. Get over it.
The parable does not mention God or Jesus or Mary. You're obfuscating.
The abolishment of all human intercession is a man made tradition, sparked by 15th century politics. We pray directly to Jesus all the time.
Your scenario is ridiculous, reflecting blindness to all explanations. It is because Jesus is the sole mediator He allows for subordinate mediators, a truth denied by so called reformers with man made traditions having a rather LATE start.
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Apples . . . and . . . oranges.
You are not to speak to the dead. Apparently the dead can speak with each other. But this crossing over between realms . . . forbidden!
You are the one who believes you can pray to people who have died. I believe in praying to God as we have been instructed to do.
You are the one who tries to bolster their argument by becoming childish in your personal comments to others.
When I pray to Jesus, I'm praying to God, at least, I believe Jesus to be God. If you believe Jesus to be a mere man, personally I think you've got a greater issue than whom to pray to.
Abolishment of human intercession . . . another orange, when we are talking about apples.
We pray for each other all the time. But we don't pray to the dead. To humans who have died in this world, and are in the next realm. God forbids it, and I don't do it.
Much love!
The rich man did not speak to Lazarus.
The disembodied “unsaved” Living soul of the Rich man AND the disembodied “saved” Living soul of Abraham had a conversation.
Body’s of humans DIE, and return to dust.
Living men typically BURY the stinking Dead bodies.
Living souls DEPART dead bodies and continue LIVING….until the day of Judgement.
Saved souls thereafter SHALL continue Living, and unSaved souls SHALL have LIFE departed from that soul (that LIFE return to God), and that lifeless BODY and lifeless SOUL destroyed and remembered no more.
Never does Scripture teach for LIVING MEN to CALL OUT TO disembodied souls or disembodied spirits of human men.
And oops….why the LIE of teaching Mary’s body did not die.
That is a spouse MAKING a neighbor an ADVOCATE.
God MADE Jesus God’s ADVOCATE….
Jesus REVEALED once a man HAS (according to Gods WAY), established a Relationship WITH GOD….the AdVOCATE is no longer necessary…Direct communication between A man and the “Lord God Almighty” is direct one on one….
WHICH should have ALSO become understood….
The Lord (Jesus), God (Father), Almighty (Christ)…..by whatever name called IS ONE.
And “IF” one HAS a relationship WITH HIM…it is with the WHOLE of Him, and FOREVER.
Glory to God,
Taken
BINGO!
Pray in the spirit ONLY “TO” the Lord God Almighty.
Pray in the spirit “FOR” the Living.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
No, it is not. And you won't investigate the matter so there is little point in explaining it to you.
Did Mary Die?
Did the Virgin mary die before she was assumed into heaven? Click here and find out what the Catholic Church teaches about this central dogma of the Faith.
You seem to have a difficult with personal responsibility. Why is it, do you suppose, that you have difficulty owning your own stuff?
Again . . . if you don't want to, that's your choice, but don't . . . again . . . don't put that off on me. Own your own choices.
Much love!
Thank you for your answer. Does everyone agree, Mary died just like all men die?
Much love!
Philip James
Well-Known Member
The Traditional source for the Church's OT is the Septuagint
The two are synonomous, for to be Christian is to be one with Christ, and Christ and His Church are one..
You too! Gabriel, are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God
haha, garbage..
Amen!
Merry Christmas!
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Liar.
We do not play 'make believe', we LIVE the Faith in union with 2000 years of our brethren who have gone before us.
You too, Mr. E, when you're ready to humble yourself and repent; are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!
Merry Christmas!
Pope Pius XII formally defined the dogma of the Assumption in his apostolic constitution Munificentissimus Deus on November 1, 1950: "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory".
Seems to depend on the era, and who is pope at any given time, for what any individual catholics believe…
One things appears a constant teaching…
That Mary was not herself naturally born in sin from her mother’s womb….and “sometimes” Mary is taught to never have bodily died, and other times is taught to have bodily died, but was quickly (I guess before the rotting began), “soul” and “bodily” risen up to Heaven, sits as Queen (I guess on a throne) and “through” “HER” is the souls of men saved!
“ As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.”
The citation of Saint Modestus repeated by Pope Pius XII
YET Catholic scholars have for eons debated and argued over WHERE Mary bodily died and was buried…and their pope by his authority claiming her BODY was risen up to Heaven, and there sits, being the “mother of God”, and “through” her is a man to PRAY TO HER for Forgiveness, Blessings and Salvation.
Actually, it's the indwelling Holy Spirit Who gives us unity, not our association with this or that institution. If you suppose that membership in your institution is the same as whether the Spirit lives me or not, well, that's not the right way to understand what God is doing in man as He saves us. It's not about, "I'm of Paul", "I'm of Apollos", "I'm of this or that pope . . ."
It never ceases to amaze me what people come up with when they go beyond Scripture, thinking themselves so wise.
Much love!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Well, if they are not Christians, wouldn't they think it was a purely human invention?
Much love!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Why? Because we reject the unworkable man made tradition of sola scriptura? You demand proof text for every single authentic practice, (that the bible doesn't demand) and when we give you scripture, scripture, scripture, you run off with more misrepresentations, and false caricatures of Catholic teaching. Taken does the same thing.
1) Jesus couldn’t possibly teach doctrinal error by means of the story. (Luke 16)
2) Abraham’s refusal to answer the prayer does not prove that he shouldn’t have been prayed to in the first place. Prayers can be refused. He never said, “You can’t pray to me!!!!! Pray only to God!” Protestants say we can’t pray to anyone but God. We can’t ask dead people to intercede to God for us. Jesus goes against both of those things by endorsing this story. He can’t teach falsehood in it. The rich man makes a petitionary prayer to Abraham, not God, in order to get a request. He doesn’t even ask him to go to God. He thinks that Abraham can himself answer it.
If indeed it were true that no one could ever pray to a creature rather than God, then Jesus couldn’t possibly have told this story. And Abraham would have certainly rebuked the rich man and would have told him to pray to God alone; and would have chided him for going to him instead of God. It’s irrelevant to the issue that the rich man was dead, because it remains wrong to pray to someone (alive or dead) other than God, in Protestantism. It wouldn’t suddenly become right (with an essential change of principle) just because he died. Therefore, the rich man would have violated that.
3) Abraham didn’t say, “I don’t have the power to send Lazarus and it’s blasphemous for you to think so.” He said, rather, that if he did send him, it wouldn’t make any difference as to the result Abraham hoped for. Thus, Abraham is presupposing that he has the power to answer a prayer request, but simply chooses not to, and explains to the rich man why.
4) Had Abraham fulfilled the request it would also be another instance of permitted communication between those in heaven or the afterlife (in this case, Hades) and those on earth, since the dead Lazarus would have returned to earth, to talk to the five brothers. Protestants tell us this is unbiblical and against God’s will (and is the equivalent of necromancy), yet there it is, right in Scripture, from Jesus.
5) If someone asks why we would even think of doing this in the first place, rather than going right to God, I address that, too (highlighting James 5:16: “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects”.
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How exactly does the recorded conversation taking place within a given realm give permission to communcate between realms when this is forbidden?
Apples . . . Oranges.
Much love!
No, because you claim things against Scripture as if your church leaders are authorative over Scripture. For myself I've concluded that I should believe the plain sayings of the Bible regardless of what some men teach.
Much love!
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