Questions for Sabbatarians

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Wrangler

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Well of course if one does not observe Saturday sabbath... they are in error and living in rebellion to the Lord, right?
rolleyes3.gif
Wait a minute!

You did not just ...

Are you saying following the will of God - as expressed by the 10 Commandments - is rebellion to the Lord?!

Bless your heart!!
 
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Wrangler

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I understand the New Covenant is based on better promises... consequently the rest provided to God's people under the New Covenant is far superior than what was provided under the old covenant because of the peace Jesus provides to those abiding IN Him.
A human invention and rationalization to disregard the Sabbath.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Are you saying following the will of God - as expressed by the 10 Commandments - is rebellion to the Lord?!

No, you sound as though your claim is... those who do not observe Saturday sabbath are living in sin.

The Law of Christ is what Christians live under now... 9 of the 10 Commandments are given again in the New Testament under the Law of Christ... but Saturday sabbath is not. Weird!
 

Ziggy

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All Sabbaths belong to the Lord.
Everyday belongs to the Lord.
If you choose to make one day more special for the purpose of celebrating God through faith, what difference does it matter which day?
Do we even know what day it is..spiritually speaking.
Because while God created a material world for man to live in, God himself lives in the spiritual realm.
Heaven is his throne and the earth is his footstool.
The earth is not higher than God but is under his feet.
Anything we do on earth is miniscule to what is done in heaven.
God gave the commandment to keep one day for him and him alone. So that man would not forget God who gave them their rest.
But they didn't want to listen even to the physical application. How would they understand the spiritual application?
Today that same tradition is in the Jewish community and a lot of others as well.
How many Jews still today keep the Sabbath? All of them? I don't think so.
So even they don't have the physical to remind them of God.
They become like the rest of the world, tied up in commerce and daily transactions.
I respect those that keep the Sabbath in this world. Because at least one day is better than no days.
And if it is just this one day that keeps them connected to God, then Halaleuia! We should be praising God that not everyone has fallen from his Grace. Even those who are of the physical law.

You know how difficult it is to keep the Sabbath in today's society?
We see it as a burden. But to those that keep it, it is a day of celebration.
It's not for us to judge others. It's up to us to judge ourselves.
If you want to keep it, keep it. If I choose another way, then I judge myself that how I keep it, I keep it.
Most of Christendom say they keep it, but do they really?
Do they spend every waking moment walking in the spirit of the Lord, doing all things his way? Everyday?
I doubt it. But we profess we do.
I think christians understand the concept of spiritually being in the Sabbath everyday. But many people's works don't show it.
It's not about staying home or going to work. It's about not being "knit" to the world and it's ways anyday of the week.
We have to live in the world, we have to work in the world, but we don't have to go along with the world and it's judgment of others.
We should be above that.

There is a verse that Paul wrote that sticks in my mind all the time:
1Co 12:31
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

What is this "more excellent way" ?

Charity.

1Co 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

What is charity and how do we apply it?
This is what we should be concentrating on. Because nothing profits any man more than charity.
Not this day or that day, or this way or that way.
Love is the answer to everything.

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Big Boy Johnson

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Some sabbatarians out there teach that those who do not observe Saturday sabbath are living in sin and on their way to hell and claim to be authority on what the 7th day adventist religions teaches.

They also believe in annihilationism which is not biblical
 

BarneyFife

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They also believe in annihilationism which is not biblical

Going for a pile-on, eh?

Nice

Appeal to Polyester Man. Some who claim to be SDA do teach this.

Appeal to Sweatshop Denim Man

Some who claim to be Buddhist believe that Santa Claus is married to the Easter Bunny.

So what?

Couldn't you think of anything lower on the food chain of Genetic Fallacy?

I don't blame all non-Sabbatarians for anything some goofball who does or doesn't keep the Sabbath believes.

You are exhibiting quite some desperation.

:hearteyes:
.
 
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BarneyFife

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Sabbatarians cannot show where observing Saturday sabbath was taught by Jesus, His Apostles, or that any corrections were given to anyone for not observing Saturday sabbath, or even any encouragement was given that Christians should observe Saturday sabbath, not to mention the Counsel at Jerusalem's findings that did not tell is Christians should observe Saturday sabbath.

So all of this points to Saturday sabbath as not being something Christians do. I don't see why sabbatarians would be upset when others question the practice of observing Saturday sabbath seeing this is not a New Testament teaching.




Well sabbatarians have no proof from the New Testament that points to Saturday sabbath as being something Christians do, so you folks are arguing for something that is non existent in the New Covenant that Jesus Christ presides over..

Sabbatarians would be much better off just saying "we just prefer to have church and rest on Saturday" and leave it at that rather than claiming this is a New Testament practice when there is no teaching in the New Testament that shows that.

Speaking of endless, double-down, cannon fodder:

Here, in a single post, after the utterly bizarre act of quoting my claim that you are doing so, you repeat the "no NT command, teaching, or practice" claim no less than SIX TIMES.

IN-CREDIBLE

Luk 23:56 KJV And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

(NT practice)

So really, there's not much of a debate at all.
disagree.gif

You're doing an awful lot of trumpeting on "not much of a debate at all."

Sabbatarians would be much better off just saying "we just prefer to have church and rest on Saturday" and leave it at that

Well, then, it's clear you're not above encouraging others to trample the 9th commandment, either. Because that's not what Sabbatarians believe. How big of a web of deceit do you intend to place on the shoulders of our crucified LORD, anyway?

Mat 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

If you're not going to pay for it, He has to.

And I'm sure Sabbatarians everywhere will be thrilled to discover that you've solved your imaginary problem with a bogus, prepared belief statement for them.

I don't see why sabbatarians would be upset when others question the practice of observing Saturday sabbath...

No, NOT upset—BORED, remember? But we still have to refute your exhausting drive-by assaults on truth.

:hearteyes:
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Ziggy

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Some sabbatarians out there teach that those who do not observe Saturday sabbath are living in sin and on their way to hell and claim to be authority on what the 7th day adventist religions teaches.

They also believe in annihilationism which is not biblical
That's their problem. Their the ones doing the judging. They will be judged themselves.
That's not your problem or my problem. We have already judged ourselves.
But if we judge them like they judge us, then we will ALL be judged the same.
So worry about you and not what they say. Do what you do and not what they do.
It's not about THEM, it's about YOU.
Hugs
 

BarneyFife

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That's their problem. Their the ones doing the judging. They will be judged themselves.
That's not your problem or my problem. We have already judged ourselves.
But if we judge them like they judge us, then we will ALL be judged the same.
So worry about you and not what they say. Do what you do and not what they do.
It's not about THEM, it's about YOU.
Hugs

Who are "they?"

How does one judge another person? What's the criteria?

If "it's not about them," why all the "us and them" talk?

I just want to understand.

If I were ignorantly stealing from someone and you warned me not to break the 8th commandment, would you think yourself ill-treated if I said you were judging me?

Are these questions unreasonable?

:hearteyes:
.
 

Ziggy

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Who are "they?"

How does one judge another person? What's the criteria?

If "it's not about them," why all the "us and them" talk?

I just want to understand.

If I were ignorantly stealing from someone and you warned me not to break the 8th commandment, would you think yourself ill-treated if I said you were judging me?

Are these questions unreasonable?

:hearteyes:
.
Labels.. they are hard to get away from aren't they.

We're not supposed to be judging other people period.
If you were ignorantly stealing from someone and I told you that stealing was a sin. I would not be judging your character as a thief, I would be instructing you as to the law.
Now once you know the law, it's up to you to keep it or not.
From there on in it's not me that judges you, but the law.

Hugs
 

Ziggy

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So bringing it back to the Sabbath Day.

If you profess to keep the sabbath day as holy to the Lord.
And you break the sabbath even in ignorance,
then if one is under the law to keep it, they will be judges by the law if they break it.

There are those that believe are freed from the law. We are under no condemnation for not keeping it.
We won't be stoned or hanged or judged for not keeping a particular Sabbath Day.
However, with freedom comes responsibility. And if not keeping the particular day is the choice, then the obligation of worshipping God everyday is installed.

I find it is more responsibilty to serve God and keep his Sabbath daily, to walk in the Spirit always without leaning to the left or to the right,
a bigger challenge then choosing just one day to rest in Him and let him do his work through me, and not putting my hands to my own works.

My own works are selfish. They are focused on me. I want to go shopping, I want to go see a game, I want to watch tv, I want sleep all day.
God's works flow through us. They are focused on others. What can I do for you today. Which is everyday.
Therefore our own works have ended, we no longer want to serve ourselves as shown by harvesting 6 days a week.
But everyday we want to rest in the provisions God provides us with daily.
And the provisions God gives us is one of generosity and a willingness to serve others and not ourselves. Everyday.

Luk 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

This is a commandment of the Lord.
Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

There is a young man who comes to Jesus and says, I have kept all God's commandments. What must I do to be saved.
Jesus looked at him, loving him, said. Give.

Mar 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

God gave man the Sabbath. He gave us rest. It is our job then, Christ working through us, to give rest to others.

Isa 58:5
Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8
Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9
Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10
And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11
And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Jhn 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Hugs
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Going for a pile-on, eh?

Nice

Those that believe in annihilationism should own it, right?


I don't blame all non-Sabbatarians for anything some goofball who does or doesn't keep the Sabbath believes.

You are exhibiting quite some desperation.

Just pointing out the facts.

These are people from your religion, so maybe you should find these folks thru their online sites and correct them if they are teaching wrongly about SDA?


NT practice

And yet... there are NO instructions given to Christians saying "and thou too shall observe Saturday sabbath"

And no corrections from Paul to Christians saying "Thou doest error by not observing Saturday sabbath and the Lord is quit UN-pleased with thou!"

This is how we know either Saturday sabbath is not something Christians are expected to observe by the Lord... or the Lord maybe just totally forgot to put this in His Word... I'm not a big fan of believing Jesus forgets stuff sometime, but apparently some are.


Well, then, it's clear you're not above encouraging others to trample the 9th commandment, either. Because that's not what Sabbatarians believe. How big of a web of deceit do you intend to place on the shoulders of our crucified LORD, anyway?

Mat 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

The burden of proof is on those claiming Christians are commanded to observe Saturday sabbath

My words are not idle at all... I'm saying there is no proof of this because there isn't!

And, it's not my fault that some of the SDA people go around claiming those that don't observe Saturday sabbath are going to hell. That's a problem for your religion and maybe you folks should correct these folks if they are speaking wrongly about your religious beliefs.


No, NOT upset—BORED, remember? But we still have to refute your exhausting drive-by assaults on truth.

Yeah, "truth" that you have NO proof from the New Testament of any instructions given that Christians are told to observe Saturday sabbath... and no corrections for those no doing Saturday sabbath that they are in error.

Ultimately the Saturday sabbath observance is of private interpretation seeing it's not taught in the New Testament.

It's what you folks believe but not what the Lord taught Himself or thru His Apostles.


And it begs the question of why is he so desperate to reject the gift from God? It's so odd!

I have the rest the comes as one who is a New Creature in Christ Jesus receiving the peace that only He can give.

I have a gift that is far superior to Saturday sabbath which is what they had under the old covenant... which has been taken away by Jesus according to Hebrews 10:9 and Hebrews 7:12

So, the "gift" you are referring to is obsolete under the New Covenant so I'm not missing out on anything other than the supposed requirement of the SDA religion which I'm not a part of so I have no obligation to bow the knee to SDA teachings. Thanks for thinking of me though!
 

Big Boy Johnson

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If I were ignorantly stealing from someone and you warned me not to break the 8th commandment, would you think yourself ill-treated if I said you were judging me?

9 of the 10 commandants can be found in the New Testament... but the command to observe Saturday is not.


10 Commandments Repeated in the New Testament

#1 - Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (Matthew 22:37)

#2 - Dear children, keep yourself from idols (1 John 5:21)

#3 - Do not swear – not by heaven or by earth or by anything else (James 5:12)

#4 - Not Commanded in the New Testament (sorry bout that SDA peoples!)

#5 - Honor your father and mother (Matthew 19:16-21)

#6 - You shall not murder (Matthew 19:16-21)

#7 - You shall not commit adultery (Matthew 19:16-21)

#8 - You shall not steal (Matthew 19:16-21)

#9 - You shall not give false testimony (Matthew 19:16-21)

#10 - Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry (Colossians 3:5)
 

Wrangler

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I find it is more responsibilty to serve God and keep his Sabbath daily
Not practical. Sabbath excludes normal work.

As I’ve matured in Christ, I realize no matter what we do, we are to do it in Christ.

Yet, this is an aside from the gift of the Sabbath, which is akin to saying grace before eating a meal. BBJ does not get that we are not required to eat under the New Covenant to be saved - yet we still do it.

We still eat and rest and live daily for God. This is practical.
 

Ziggy

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Not practical. Sabbath excludes normal work.
exactly.
When we go to work, we serve the boss, If we are self-emplyed we serve the customer.
Our wages serve our family and the community we contribute to.
Everything we do we do out of charity and generosity.
In the wilderness, God provided every member of a family a certain measure of manna.
No one had more or less than they needed.
There were no poor among them, no hungry among them.

God even provided enough for 2 days for when he would not be present with them on the last day.
God would enter into his rest and the people would enter into theirs.

Jesus is the manna God sent from heaven. He walked with man in his day. It was the Sabbath day. All 33 and 1/2 years.
What he gave us and left us of his word, his bread, his manna. Will hold us over for two days until he returns.

In the meantime, there are many poor and many hungry who have not this manna, this bread, this doctrine.
And we are to feed them with the bread we have been given until he returns.
And we don't know when that will be, but he has supplied us with enough to last during however long this Sabbath, this Age of grace shall last.

This is how I understand Isaiah chapter 58 above.

It is not our works, but he who works through us.
We are not here to serve ourselves but to serve others.
Always.

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Big Boy Johnson

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BBJ does not get that we are not required to eat under the New Covenant to be saved

And we are not required to observe Saturday sabbath under the New Covenant to be saved either.

So, the SDA claim that observing Saturday sabbath under the New Covenant is "truth" is not actually supporting by New Covenant teachings and is nothing more than the opinions of SDA peoples based on the private interpretations of Ellen G White who does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a teacher or church leader in the Body of Christ.

Not to mention the numerous false predictions Ellen G White said the Lord gave her... things that did not come true which proves she was not hearing from the Lord which further disqualifies her from being the "prophetess" she claimed to be.

When one looks at all these things, it's easy to see why SDA is considered to be unorthodox to the rest of the Body of Christ... and of course SDA peoples claim everyone else is wrong but them.