Where does the Pope get his authority?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Stumpmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2009
2,106
1,430
113
69
Hamilton, New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
It is Early Church Father commentaries on Matt. 16:18, either for or against the identification of Peter the man as the Rock, that I am interested in. Has anyone done the survey?
No survey is needed.

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

1Co 3:9-11
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. (10) According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. (11) For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,952
7,801
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

From his followers. They give it to him. No followers, no authority.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Brakelite

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,577
994
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

From his followers. They give it to him. No followers, no authority.
And many others, as he impresses and they wonder...
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, sorry Christ is the Rock and it is shown all through the Bible.
Simon bar Johnna's new name, ROCK, is shown through the Bible as Cephas, a word of Aramaic origin. Get over it.

Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon “Kepha” in Aramaic which literally means “rock.” This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because “rock” was not even a name in Jesus’ time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the apostles. When God changes a person’s name, He changes their status.

Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 – for example, in these verses, we see that God changes the following people’s names and, as a result, they become special agents of God: Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

For the hundredth time, Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church,
All your fiery darts attacking Catholicism, a sick obsession of the SDA, have been refuted repeatedly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
And many others, as he impresses and they wonder...
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
I'm still waiting for you to admit who killed the first 27+ popes in the first 2+ centuries of the Church. You can't or won't because the historical facts makes mincemeat of your Catholic bashing theories.
Furthermore, you refuse to name ONE martyr in the post-biblical era, because they were all Catholics. I'd be happy to provide a list, starting with Ignatius of Antioch. Until you come up with ONE name of a martyr, you have no business making reference to "the blood of the martyrs." in Revelation, because your cult is divorced from the early church. That's why fabricating history is what you do best.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,937
2,572
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The pope gets his authority from the same place that the SDA's JW's and other denominations get their authorities from.

Somehow, I do not think that their authority has come from God but it does come from the influence of beastly angels.

The real question is Have they discovered God's truth yet. Many claim that they have, but is that so?
 
Last edited:

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The pope would have no authority if the catholic church didn't give it to him. But they do, they revere him even.
Wrong. The Pope gets his authority from the prerogatives Jesus gave to Peter. (Rock)

 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada

OFFICE OF POPE IN THE BIBLE

Isaiah 22:19-25
New King James Version​

19 So I will drive you out of your office, And from your position [a]he will pull you down.
20 ‘Then it shall be in that day, That I will call My servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah;
21 I will clothe him with your robe, And strengthen him with your belt; I will commit your responsibility into his hand.
He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
22 The key of the house of David I will lay on his shoulder; so he shall open, and no one shall shut;
And he shall shut, and no one shall open.
23 I will fasten him as a peg in a secure place,
And he will become a glorious throne to his father’s house.

Isa. 22: 19
Shebna is described as having an "office" and a "station." An office, in order for it to be an office, has successors. In order for an earthly kingdom to last, a succession of representatives is required.

This was the case in the Old Covenant kingdom, and it is the case in the New Covenant kingdom which fulfills the Old Covenant. Jesus our King is in heaven, but He has appointed a chief steward over His household with a plan for a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:20

In the old Davidic kingdom, Eliakim succeeds Shebna as the chief steward of the household of God. The kingdom employs a mechanism of dynastic succession. King David was dead for centuries, but his kingdom is preserved through a succession of representatives.

Isa. 22:21

Eliakim is called “father” or “papa” of God's people. The word Pope used by Catholics to describe the chief steward of the earthly kingdom simply means papa or father in Italian. This is why Catholics call the leader of the Church "Pope." The Pope is the father of God's people, the chief steward of the earthly kingdom and Christ's representative on earth.

Isa. 22:22

We see that the keys of the kingdom pass from Shebna to Eliakim. Thus, the keys are used not only as a symbol of authority, but also to facilitate succession. The keys of Christ's kingdom have passed from Peter to Linus all the way to our current Pope with an unbroken lineage for almost 2,000 years.

Rev. 1:18; Rev. 3:7 ; Rev. 9:1 ; Rev. 20:1

Jesus' "keys" undeniably represent authority.
By using the word "keys," Jesus gives Peter authority on earth over the new Davidic kingdom, and this was not seriously questioned by anyone until the Protestant revolt 1,500 years later after Peter’s investiture.

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: `The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens. Almost the same wording is used in Matthew 16:19

Matt. 16:190


Whatever Peter binds or looses on earth is bound or loosed in heaven / when the Prime Minister to the King opens, no one shuts. This "binding and loosing" authority, a rabbinical term, allows the keeper of the keys to establish "halakah," or rules of conduct for the members of the kingdom he serves.

Jer. 33:17 “For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel;

Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall [a]break in pieces and [b]consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The pope gets his authority from the same place that the SDA's JW's and other denominations get their authorities from.
Must you be so insulting?
Somehow, I do not think that their authority has come from God but it does come from the influence of beastly angels.

The real question is Have the discovered God's truth yet. Many claim that they have, but is that so?
Why not listen to some folks who have PhD's in the Bible, etc., some of whom taught in Protestant seminaries? These folks, through their study of the Bible and Christianity, became Catholic.

Dr. Doug Beaumont:


Dr. Scott Hahn:

Dr. Jason Reed:

Dr. Tory Baucum:

Dr. Benjamin Lewis:

If you need more, I can provide you with many more.


My observation is that people who leave the Catholic Church did so through ignorance. They didn't know what the Catholic Church taught. They were convinced by someone else whom they allowed to influence them through their ignorance. They couldn't answer the questions posed to them.

Those people who come into the Catholic Church, like the ones listed above, come in because they entered a deep, intellectual study of the Bible, theology, the teachings of the Church, the history of Christianity, etc. They didn't enter through ignorance, but because they discovered the fullness of truth taught by Christ's Church.

post #264
 
Last edited:

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
As at best he only has a claim to be a bishop elected by a city as nowhere does Scripture state that the authority the Pope claims was passed on to him. Well, the authority of the Pope is not from scripture, but can be shown to be from another origin and authority. The College of Cardinals, with the Pope given authority at its head, is just the counterpart of the Pagan College of Pontiffs, with its "Pontifex Maximus," or "Sovereign Pontiff," which had existed in Rome from the earliest times, and which is known to have been framed on the model of the grand original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon.

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon, was then established in ancient Rome and the Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest pontiff") again established as the high priest of the pagan religion. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion as it had been in Babylon.

One of the things history show about the ascendancy of the papacy is that the church of Rome promotes the pope as the "Pontifex Maximus" or, Supreme Pontiff. The title Pontifex Maximus is mentioned numerous times by the early church fathers (particularly by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Christian bishop. The early church fathers say that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom", the high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. The Pontifex Maximus was an imperial office, usually held by the Emperor himself, which made one the "chief priest" of the Roman "state cult."

It's nice that you refer to the early church fathers. What most of them thought of the papacy is well documented in post #11, that you seemed to have skipped over. You wrote "(particularly by Tertullian)"

“Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the church should be built,’ who also obtained ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven…’”
Tertullian, On the Prescription Against the Heretics, 22 (c. A.D. 200).

“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,–in the reign of Antoninus (Ad 138 to 161) for the most part,–and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.”
Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).

“And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail…”
Origen, Commentary on John, 5:3 (A.D. 232).

“By this Spirit Peter spake that blessed word, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ By this Spirit the rock of the Church was established.”
Hippolytus, Discourse on the Holy Theophany, 9 (ante A.D. 235).

“’…thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church’ … It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church’s) oneness…If a man does not fast to this oneness of Peter, does he still imagine that he still holds the faith. If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church?”
Cyprian, De Unitate Ecclesiae (Primacy text), 4 (A.D. 251).

In 63 B.C., Julius Caesar had himself elected Supreme Pontiff blah, blah, blah......
The transfer of a title does not prove transfer of function. Pontifex Maximus was originally a title for the pagan emperor who had temporal and spiritual jurisdiction. The title does not give the pope authority over paganism, but you have to blurr the lines to support your "Catholic Imperial Cult Roman Pagan Church" theory which is biblically and historically stupid and absurd.

Constantine eventually supported Christianity very strongly. The Latin term pontifex means “bridge builder.” In ancient Roman religion, the head priest was called the pontifex maximus (the greatest bridge builder). Julius Caesar held this title more than 40 years before Jesus was born.

After Christianity was legalized under the Emperor Constantine (313), it became the state religion within 100 years. Adopting a title coming from Roman paganism became feasible then. Applying this title to the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter, seemed appropriate. It doesn't prove the pope adopted paganism..
***

Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews.

The nineteenth century witnessed a flowering of this “pagan influence fallacy.” Publications such as The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop (the classic English text charging the Catholic Church with paganism) paved the way for generations of antagonism toward the Church. During this time, entire new sects were created (Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses)—all considering traditional Catholicism and Protestantism as polluted by paganism. This era also saw atheistic “freethinkers” such as Robert Ingersoll writing books attacking Christianity and Judaism as pagan.

The pagan influence fallacy has not gone away in the twentieth century, but newer archaeology and more mature scholarship have diminished its influence. Yet there are still many committing it. In rabid anti-Catholic circles, numerous works have continued to popularize the claims of Alexander Hislop, most notably the comic books of Jack Chick and the book Babylon Mystery Religion by the young Ralph Woodrow (later Woodrow realized its flaws and wrote The Babylon Connection? repudiating it and refuting Hislop). Other Christian and quasi-Christian sects have continued to charge mainstream Christianity with paganism, and many atheists have continued to repeat—unquestioned—the charges of paganism leveled by their forebears.

 
Last edited:

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,952
7,801
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Those people who come into the Catholic Church, like the ones listed above, come in because they entered a deep, intellectual study of the Bible, theology, the teachings of the Church, the history of Christianity, etc. They didn't enter through ignorance, but because they discovered the fullness of truth taught by Christ's Church.
but did they know Jesus?
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,937
2,572
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Why not listen to some folks who have PhD's in the Bible, etc., some of whom taught in Protestant seminaries? These folks, through their study of the Bible and Christianity, became Catholic.

Just because someone has a PHD in divinity does not mean that they have any understanding. It only means that those who supervised their PHDs just happened to agree that the PHD student gave the supervisors what they wanted to hear and asked for during their supervision.

The pope gets his authority from the same place that the SDA's JW's and other denominations get their authorities from.

Meaning that the source of the respective denominational leaders' authority to "rule" over others comes from the same source or place as each other. Their peers.

Your response was: -

Must you be so insulting?

It is obvious that you have not heard or considered what I have posts in other threads re the collective church.

There are members on this forum who have a great dislike for the RCC and Catholic people as a whole. I noticed that you linked to one such member. I on the other hand have pointed that we are all of one body in Christ even if we have disagreements on the interpretation of certain Scriptures. The justification that Peter became the "first Pope" of the church based on Christ's statement that on this rock, I will build this church is a reference back to Daniel 2:35 where the rock that is to come down from heaven in around 20 years' time, will be the basis for religion/mountain that will become the greatest religion in all of the earth. The foundation that Christ was telling us that the foundational understanding is that He, Christ, is the Son of the living God. My understanding is very different to the understanding that you have adopted. But this difference in interpretation of this one verse should not divide us if we both give homage to the Son of God and demonstrate this dependence on Christ for our salvation in the way we live our lives.

We all have blind spots in our understanding of the religion that God intends to honour when we are judged at the end of the Seventh Age. Not everyone who believes that they are a Christian and righteous will be blessed at the time of the judgement. We will be judged on where we sent our roots down into to draw nourishment from God during our lives in worshipping Him.

What should bring us all together is worship all of the Saints of God shown in the way we bless the people who live around us.

I can honour the Pope for being the leader of the RCC, even with all of His shortcomings, just as you should honour the other denominational people who hold to some small differences of interpretation. We should not let those difference drive a wedge between all of God's Saints.

I really think that it is time for the opposing waring participants to put down their religious weaponised rhetoric against each other and learn to come together in the common harmony that is found in Christ alone.

Shalom
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Just because someone has a PHD in divinity does not mean that they have any understanding. It only means that those who supervised their PHDs just happened to agree that the PHD student gave the supervisors what they wanted to hear and asked for during their supervision.
You missed the point entirely.
Meaning that the source of the respective denominational leaders' authority to "rule" over others comes from the same source or place as each other. Their peers.
That is NOT the basis of the papacy, its the basis for relativism.
Your response was: -

It is obvious that you have not heard or considered what I have posts in other threads re the collective church.

There are members on this forum who have a great dislike for the RCC and Catholic people as a whole.
And when these people post something truthful, I click "like" for the content, ignoring who wrote it. I dislike the lies posted by ignorant bigots with their Ku Klux Klan theology.
I noticed that you linked to one such member. I on the other hand have pointed that we are all of one body in Christ even if we have disagreements on the interpretation of certain Scriptures. The justification that Peter became the "first Pope" of the church based on Christ's statement that on this rock, I will build this church is a reference back to Daniel 2:35 where the rock that is to come down from heaven in around 20 years' time, will be the basis for religion/mountain that will become the greatest religion in all of the earth. The foundation that Christ was telling us that the foundational understanding is that He, Christ, is the Son of the living God. My understanding is very different to the understanding that you have adopted. But this difference in interpretation of this one verse should not divide us if we both give homage to the Son of God and demonstrate this dependence on Christ for our salvation in the way we live our lives.
Agreed. I prefer a both/and approach. Peter's confession and Peter himself is the Rock...Why can't it be both and avoid gouging each others eyes out? Can we meet half way?
We all have blind spots in our understanding of the religion that God intends to honour when we are judged at the end of the Seventh Age. Not everyone who believes that they are a Christian and righteous will be blessed at the time of the judgement. We will be judged on where we sent our roots down into to draw nourishment from God during our lives in worshipping Him.
We will be judged by how we lived our lives.
What should bring us all together is worship all of the Saints of God shown in the way we bless the people who live around us.

I can honour the Pope for being the leader of the RCC, even with all of His shortcomings, just as you should honour the other denominational people who hold to some small differences of interpretation. We should not let those difference drive a wedge between all of God's Saints.
Agreed, but don't expect me to be silent in the face of bigotry, lies and insults. I do my best to be civil, but the rabid anti-Catholics in here have mental problems. They are a minority within a minority. Most Protestants I have met face to face are good Christians, but this forum has turned into a snake pit since the new owners took over. Banning "Trinity" discussion is a mistake. In the old days, the Nicene Creed was an accepted standard for this forum. It isn't anymore.
I really think that it is time for the opposing waring participants to put down their religious weaponised rhetoric against each other and learn to come together in the common harmony that is found in Christ alone.
Tell that to the SDA members that flood threads with Catholic bashing rhetoric in order to fulfil false prophecies. Every tid bit of history, every snippet of any document, is interpreted through this warped lens. It's a form of mind control.
 
Last edited:

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This signified a real claim to control the church as well as the state, and Constantine chaired the critical Church Council of Nicaea in 325.
Constantine was present as a civil ruler, not a church leader. He had no say in the formulation of the canons at the Council of Nicaea, which you reject in the first place.
It was not until the Empire split in two, with the Western Empire going to Emperor Gratian in 360 AD, that he was persuaded to give up the position of the pagan high priest and return it to the bishop of Rome who was given the title Pontifex Maximus. Thus the title Pontifex Maximus can be traced in an unbroken line all the way to Babylon and its system of worship.
Pope Damasus I, the first to receive a title from the emporer, (/ˈdæməsəs/; c. 305 – 11 December 384), known as Damasus of Rome,[1] was the bishop of Rome from October 366 to his death. He presided over the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon or official list of sacred scripture.[2] He spoke out against major heresies (including Apollinarianism and Macedonianism), thus solidifying the faith of the Catholic Church, and encouraged production of the Vulgate Bible with his support for Jerome. He helped reconcile the relations between the Church of Rome and the Church of Antioch, and encouraged the veneration of martyrs. (Hobie can't name any)

The Emperor Galasius legally owned the title Pontificus Maximus, and gave it to Pope Damasus to signify universal spiritual jurisdiction for the Church, not Roman paganism. The emperor knew who was in charge, or he would have clung to a title that was redundant in his position.

Pope Damasus I presided over the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon or official list of sacred scripture.[2] according to the non-Catholic Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. I wonder if Hobie thinks this dictionary is pagan, or written by Jesuit infiltrators .

According to Hobie, a pagan pope presided over the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon or official list of sacred scripture. Using Hobie's logic, all scripture has pagan roots because the pope who ratified the canon of Scripture is a pagan.
Hobie can find pagans in a box of cereal.
 
Last edited:

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,640
13,027
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where does the Pope get his authority?

From men who call themselves Catholic.

God is the Heavenly Father.
God Appointed Abraham as father of many Nations.
God added a Caveat…

Rabbi, Father, Master are terms Used to “CALL” to another, when those terms EXPRESSLY are to be reserved to “CALL” to Christ the Lord God….NOT HUMAN MEN.

Human men are subjectively brethren ‘Under’ the Father, Rabbi,, Master.

Matt 23:
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,962
3,410
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where does the Pope get his authority?

From men who call themselves Catholic.

God is the Heavenly Father.
God Appointed Abraham as father of many Nations.
God added a Caveat…

Rabbi, Father, Master are terms Used to “CALL” to another, when those terms EXPRESSLY are to be reserved to “CALL” to Christ the Lord God….NOT HUMAN MEN.

Human men are subjectively brethren ‘Under’ the Father, Rabbi,, Master.
Hierarchy in the Church was established by Jesus and the Apostles.

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Cor. 12:28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, FIRST, apostles; SECOND, prophets; THIRD, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

Matt 23:
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken
This is one of the most misrepresented and misunderstood Biblical passages used by anti-Catholics.

Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually BE fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT.

He is saying that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.” (Matt 23:6-7).

The Bible disagrees with you:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- "For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).

- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,962
3,410
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, but this is only the church of Rome, not the early or true church which it persecuted and then raised up its bishop saying he was above all others. Not so...
So, the Catholic Church persecuted ITSELF??
Please show me the historical evidence for this.
 

Big Boy Johnson

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2023
3,561
1,447
113
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My observation is that people who leave the Catholic Church did so through ignorance.

Your "observation" is faulty!

The true Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ... has never once led anybody to pray to mary (rosary) which is necromancy (witchcraft) disagree.gif



Matt 23:
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Exactly!

I hope nobody ever introduces me to a catholic priest saying "I'd like you to meet father so and so"

The first thing I'm going to say to the guy is that Jesus specifically said to NOT call any man father. disagree.gif