Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Taken]

Hierarchy in the Church was established by Jesus and the Apostles.

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Cor. 12:28
Some people God has designated in the church to be, FIRST, apostles; SECOND, prophets; THIRD, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

This is one of the most misrepresented and misunderstood Biblical passages used by anti-Catholics.

Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually BE fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT.

He is saying that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.” (Matt 23:6-7).

The Bible disagrees with you:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- "For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
- "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

God IN Heaven is the Father.

Jesus came to accomplish many specific things.
One thing Jesus came to DO was to SERVE
“THE FATHER GOD” and TEACH others to DO the SAME.

Anti-catholic….LOL still on the same old and silly mantra!!

Anti-Christ …. Is the ONLY “anti” that means anything of importance!

Speaking “OF” A Father is wholly different than “CALLING” a person FATHER.

I already know you have difficulty distinguishing the meaning of simple words, such as “is, as, of, in, and apparently; a Person “referencing or calling” another is a conundrum for you, as you have revealed in your comment.

Matt 20

[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[Illuminator]

So, the Catholic Church persecuted ITSELF??

Yes, blood thirsty Catholics, while determining the canon of Scripture, spent their lunch breaks slaughtering mythical "true believers", and even killed their own popes. SDA revisionism appeals to the ignorant who are predisposed to irrational hostility and drink E.G. White's Koolaid.

Please show me the historical evidence for this.

The SDA have been inventing historical evidence since 1860 to force it to fulfil false prophecies. False prophecies demand false evidence. Reputable Protestant historians are the enemy of anti-Catholics.

not a Catholic source:

7 False Predictions from Ellen G. White – Seventh Day Adventist – answering-seventhdayadventist.com

 

[Illuminator]

God IN Heaven is the Father.

Jesus came to accomplish many specific things.
One thing Jesus came to DO was to SERVE
“THE FATHER GOD” and TEACH others to DO the SAME.

Anti-catholic….LOL still on the same old and silly mantra!!

Anti-Christ …. Is the ONLY “anti” that means anything of importance!

Speaking “OF” A Father is wholly different than “CALLING” a person FATHER.

I already know you have difficulty distinguishing the meaning of simple words, such as “is, as, of, in, and apparently; a Person “referencing or calling” another is a conundrum for you, as you have revealed in your comment.

Matt 20

[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

"Father's Day" is a cultural celebration on June 16 this year.
People who think calling priests "father" is the same as calling them "God" have mental problems.
One of the titles for the pope is "Servant of the Servants of God", taken from Jesus who told Peter to strengthen his brothers, so Taken rants nonsense.
Taken is forced to demonize the biblical title of spiritual "father" because he has no earthly spiritual fathers.

Matt. 23:9 – Jesus says, “call no man father.” But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.” This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. Taken twists Scripture.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either. "Doctor" means "teacher" so according to Taken, it's wrong to call your doctor "doctor".

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example. Taken has a Bible and doesn't need an earthly/spiritual father.....sad.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why doesn't Taken call his pastor “father?” Because he doesn't have one?

1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.” Taken needs to correct Paul.

THE PRIESTHOOD - FATHERS, CELIBACY & WOMEN'S ORDINATION - Scripture Catholic

Contents1 I. The Elders of the Church are Called “Fathers” and the Faithful “Children”2 II. The Lord, Mary, the Apostles and Others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as “Fathers”3 III. Other Examples Where Jesus Uses the Word “Father” When Teaching4 IV. Celibacy is Church Practice, Not Dogma5 V. Women...

www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[quietthinker]

Hierarchy in the Church was established by Jesus and the Apostles.

yes, the greatest is to be the servant, not the one robed in finery and waited on; a hierarchy which inverts man's idea and practice.

 

[Taken]

"Father's Day" is a cultural celebration on June 16 this year.
People who think calling priests "father" is the same as calling them "God" have mental problems.

People who MAKE UP comments which were NOT said and IMPLY another did say that….ARE DECEIVING GASLIGHTERS!

Taken is forced to demonize the biblical title of spiritual "father" because he has no earthly spiritual fathers.

Gaslighter.

Matt. 23:9 – Jesus says, “call no man father.”

Yet Catholics do exactly what Jesus says NOT TO DO.

But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.”

Fascinating Protestants agree with Scripture and Catholics are confounded!

In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites.

Failed effort to explain Jesus’ reasoning…
“Call NO man father”, is pretty plain…
NO man, without regard to identifying, a scribe, a Pharisee, a pope, a preacher, a priest, blah, blah, blah.

Taken twists Scripture.

False accusation.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either. "Doctor" means "teacher" so according to Taken, it's wrong to call your doctor "doctor".

I did’t mention “teacher”.
Yet again your GASLIGHTING is shining!

Matt 23:
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together.

Fatherhood is the state of being a father.
Don’t you comprehend the difference between a “description” and “calling” someone “father”?

Yipes in your “comprehension” skills. SAD!

Taken has a Bible and doesn't need an earthly/spiritual father.....sad.

Really sad is your own merit is so lacking you feel compelled to GASLIGHT, as if such deception makes your nonsense plausible.
Where ya been? That trickery is so old and worn it is the punchline of jokes.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why doesn't Taken call his pastor “father?” Because he doesn't have one?

I would suppose you stand face to face with your priest and CALL him “Father” and likely ask “him” to forgive you for your cause of harm to other men.

I don’t HAVE..(or own, lol) a pastor. I have a Heavenly Father who HAS Forgiven me, Hears me CALLING HIM, Blesses me, Reveals to me His Understanding, Accepts my Bowing and Worshiping Him Only.

1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.” Taken needs to correct Paul.

No. Paul requires no correction. Paul was an Expressly APPOINTED (by the Lord) instructor IN Christ, THROUGH the Gospel.

1 Cor 4:
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[Illuminator]

People who MAKE UP comments which were NOT said and IMPLY another did say that….ARE DECEIVING GASLIGHTERS!



Gaslighter.



Yet Catholics do exactly what Jesus says NOT TO DO.



Fascinating Protestants agree with Scripture and Catholics are confounded!



Failed effort to explain Jesus’ reasoning…
“Call NO man father”, is pretty plain…

Why is it "pretty plain" to a minority within a minority? There is no way you can claim to speak for all non-Catholic Christians. Most good Christian Protestants have better manners than rabid anti-Catholics and will properly address a priest as "Fr." Soandso because they are civilized. Some priests tell their family and friends to drop the title. It's only an issue for a small group of vociferous frothing-at-mouth radical anti-Catholics, a subset of a larger faction who have little in common with orthodox Protestants. This minority within a minority have common characteristics, such as the fundamentalist approach to interpretation not used by mainline Protestants, and anti-institutionalism.

Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology. In many denominations—and especially in non-denominational churches—there is no hierarchy of churches responsible to a central head, no accountability beyond the local congregation, no fellowship beyond the local assembly, no missional emphasis that gains support from hundreds of congregations, and no superiors to whom a local pastor must submit for doctrinal or ethical fidelity.​

Daniel Baird Wallace is an American professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary.

The Problem with Protestant Ecclesiology

I am unashamedly a Protestant. I believe in sola scriptura, sola fidei, solus Christus, and the rest. I am convinced that Luther was on to something when he articulated his view of justification su…

danielbwallace.com

NO man, without regard to identifying, a scribe, a Pharisee, a pope, a preacher, a priest, blah, blah, blah.

False accusation.

I did’t mention “teacher”.
Yet again your GASLIGHTING is shining!

Matt 23:
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Fatherhood is the state of being a father.
Don’t you comprehend the difference between a “description” and “calling” someone “father”?

Calling someone "Fr." is a biblical title for the ordained. You profane Matthew 3 with your extreme literalism that most Protestants would reject. You made no reply or quote from post 43 because you are too angry to follow a discussion.

I don’t HAVE..(or own, lol) a pastor.

At least you are honest enough to admit you are an authority unto yourself.

No. Paul requires no correction. Paul was an Expressly APPOINTED (by the Lord) instructor IN Christ, THROUGH the Gospel.

1 Cor 4:
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

It must bother you that Paul calls himself a father. Your trying to justify the abolishment of the New Testament Priesthood with scripture and making a fool of yourself in the process.

 

[Illuminator]

The biblical texts seemed so clear to me. For example, Hebrews 7:22–25 says:

“This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant. The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them” (emphasis added).

Doesn’t this text eliminate the possibility of there being priests who are “many in number” as we see in Catholicism? Moreover, this text tells us that Christ is our intercessor before the Father. Coupled with 1 Timothy 2:5, which says, “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” I could not see how anyone could say there could be priests in the New Covenant. A priest, by definition, is a mediator between God and men. As I interpreted the above texts, Christ would be our one, unique priest and intercessor, excluding the possibility of a ministerial priesthood. (Intercessor and mediator are synonymous in the New Testament.)​

​

The Catholic Response​

First, we need to dispel the notion that there cannot be “many priests” in the New Covenant. First Peter 2:5–9 tells us, “Like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. . . . But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people.” The fact that all baptized Christians are referred to as priests in the New Testament necessarily means it is not a contradiction to say that Christ is our unique priest/mediator/intercessor while affirming the biblical truth that Christians can act as priests/mediators/intercessors as well.

The key is to understand properly the nature of the body of Christ. Christians do not usurp or diminish the unique priesthood of Christ when they are referred to as priests; they participate in that unique priesthood. So intimate is the union of the baptized with Christ that Paul describes this mystical union as a body (cf. 1 Cor. 12:12–27; Rom. 12:5) with Christ as its head (cf. Eph. 1:22–23). What can be attributed to a hand in the body does not somehow take away from the head. The fact that Christians are priests does not usurp the priesthood of Christ because it is Christ who empowers them to participate in his own priesthood. Indeed, it is Christ (and his priesthood) living in them (cf. Gal. 2:20).

Further, it is obvious that Hebrews 7:22–25 and 1 Timothy 2:5 are not saying that Christians cannot act as mediators or intercessors in any sense. Paul says, “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions” (1 Tim. 2:1–2). This text urges Christians to act as mediators or intercessors. When we understand that Christians can intercede only because they are in the one true mediator/intercessor and that they act as members of his body,
the difficulty goes away. Simple enough.

Why We Have a Ministerial Priesthood

The Catholic belief in and great emphasis upon the p...

www.catholic.com

 

[BlessedPeace]

From where?
I'd say from the over 1 billion people who haven't bothered to read a Bible not approved by the Vatican.

 

[Taken]

Why is it "pretty plain" to a minority within a minority?

Not complicated. “Pretty plain”…
Pretty reveals the beauty of Gods Word.
Plain reveals the preciseness of Gods Word.

There is no way you can claim to speak for all non-Catholic Christians.

But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.”

^^ You brought up Protestants and Catholics, I responded.
Did you speak for ALL? I didn’t say ALL.
Why make another false claim? gaslighter..

Most good Christian Protestants have better manners than rabid anti-Catholics

Opening….”good Christian Protestants”
Catholic punchline…”rabid anti-Catholics”
Reaction…
Woolf, Woolf, Woolf

and will properly address a priest as "Fr."

because they are civilized.

A person calling another person “Fr”, makes a person civilized?

Some priests tell their family and friends to drop the title.

Good one…
LOL…hey family, stop calling me FIR..

It's only an issue for a small group of vociferous frothing-at-mouth radical anti-Catholics…

Noting “forked-tongue” to your “gaslighter” reputation.

a subset of a larger faction who have little in common with orthodox Protestants. This minority within a minority have common characteristics, such as the fundamentalist approach to interpretation not used by mainline Protestants, and anti-institutionalism.

While Catholic “FIR’S” may have taught you how to express yourself as a forked-tongue gaslighter…
I highly doubt you are an expert to speak FOR any Protestant.

Calling someone "Fr." is a biblical title for the ordained. You profane Matthew 3 with your extreme literalism that most Protestants would reject. You made no reply or quote from post 43 because you are too angry to follow a discussion.

Calling someone FIR is not biblical. LOL
Laughing is not a display of anger. LOL.
Opening your mouth with a forked tongue and gaslighting is not engaging in a discussion. LOL

Attempting to elevate rejection of Catholic taught nonsense as anti-Catholic, implying a parallel to ANTI-CHRIST, is on the same level of deception of homosexuals pridefully waving a banner of Gods Rainbow implying a FALSE approval of God.

At least you are honest enough to admit you are an authority unto yourself.

False accuser, I said no such thing.

It must bother you that Paul calls himself a father.

Paul did not call himself a father.
Paul was MADE “IN Christ” and Chosen and Appointed by the Lord God to INSTRUCT other men IN THE TRUE WORD of God….
Rather than some string of man-made nonsense as you advocate, promote and have a forked tongued unleashing when people do not fall for “your” nonsense.

Your trying to justify the abolishment of the New Testament Priesthood with scripture and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Yet…Another false accusation.
Priesthood, was not challenged by me.

The CLERGY “IN CHRIST” are “BROTHERS OF their parishioners”….not to be CALLED “fathers”!!

Matt 23:
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

NOT a mystery!

 

[Taken]

Where does the Pope get his authority?

“The Pope”….gets his “AUTHORITY” from men….from his Titles, to his pseudo royal throne, pseudo royal guards, to his crowns, to his ring, to his long robes, to his residence, to his elevated high tower, blah, blah, blah…from men.

 

[BreadOfLife]

God IN Heaven is the Father.

Jesus came to accomplish many specific things.
One thing Jesus came to DO was to SERVE
“THE FATHER GOD” and TEACH others to DO the SAME.

Anti-catholic….LOL still on the same old and silly mantra!!

Anti-Christ …. Is the ONLY “anti” that means anything of importance!

Speaking “OF” A Father is wholly different than “CALLING” a person FATHER.

I already know you have difficulty distinguishing the meaning of simple words, such as “is, as, of, in, and apparently; a Person “referencing or calling” another is a conundrum for you, as you have revealed in your comment.

Matt 20
[27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

yes, the greatest is to be the servant, not the one robed in finery and waited on; a hierarchy which inverts man's idea and practice.

And that's why the Pope's official title is, "The Servant of the Servants of God."

 

[BreadOfLife]

From where?
I'd say from the over 1 billion people who haven't bothered to read a Bible not approved by the Vatican.

That's not true.
Manu of us have read your incomplete, 66-Book Protestant Bible.

I have an NIV and a KJV at home that I use for cross-referencing and debating

 

[Mr E]

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

When I was a kid, Cornflakes packets used to have toys inside. Perhaps authorities are more popular now?

I was thinking the same thing--- Cracker Jack's box? Secret decoder Ring?

 

[Mr E]

I have an NIV and a KJV at home that I use for cross-referencing and debating

You should use them for deprogramming.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You should use them for deprogramming.

No thanks.
I only study from the complete, 72-Book Bible that was compiled and declared by the Church in 382 AD.

Do you know WHY your Bible is thinner?
I'll bet you don't . . .

 

[Mr E]

No thanks.
I only study from the complete, 72-Book Bible that was compiled and declared by the Church in 382 AD.

Do you know WHY your Bible is thinner?
I'll bet you don't . . .

Protein diet. Cut the carbs.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Protein diet. Cut the carbs.

Is that what you're going to tell God when He asks you why you rejected His Word?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Protein diet. Cut the carbs.

And only eat fish on Friday!

I only study from the complete, 72-Book Bible

Those extra books conflict with the original 66 books because these extra books are not part of the Lord's canon and it was the Lord Himself that lead people to take the extra books out.

Those that do not believe this are accusing Jesus of not having the authority or power to control exactly what goes in to His canon and as such those people have created strife between themselves and the Lord and are not being led by the true Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Those extra books conflict with the original 66 books because these extra books are not part of the Lord's canon and it was the Lord Himself that lead people to take the extra books out.

Those that do not believe this are accusing Jesus of not having the authority or power to control exactly what goes in to His canon and as such those people have created strife between themselves and the Lord and are not being led by the true Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.

WOW - talk about your whoppers . . .

It’s always interesting to hear how Protestant traditions are born.
Now, it’s time for a History Lesson . . .

First of all – Jesus and the Apostles studied from the 46-Book Old Testament. This is evident from the almost 200 New Testament references to the 7 Deuterocanonical Books that Protestants reject.

After the destruction of Jerusalem, a group of Rabbis established a rabbinical school in the Jewish city of at Jabneh (or Jamnia). It became center for Jewish political and religious political thought. Because the Temple had been destroyed in 70 AD – this school led by Rabbi Akiba ben Joseph (A.D. 37-137) redefined certain aspects of Judaism until the Temple could be restored.

One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) by early Christians.

They decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt were “uninspired”. They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ. According to historical sources, the rabbinical gathering at Jabneh was not even an "official" council with binding authority to make such a decision. It can be clearly shown that Jesus and the Apostles studied and quoted from these 7 Books. In the New Testament, we see almost 200 references to them.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiba, who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD). It was during THIS time that the Jewish Canon had still been an OPEN Canon during the life of Christ was closed.

So, the Protestant Fathers chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet (Akiva) who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ” (Kokhba).

 

[Augustin56]

The Pope gets his authority from Jesus Christ. Authority is always "given" not "taken." And, authority also implies responsibility. the level of authority is always in equal proportion to the level of responsibility to whom the authority is given.

Matt. 16:19 - Jesus said to Peter, the first Pope, "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This is Jesus (God) giving His godly authority to Peter to govern and sanctify His Church here on earth.