Ah yes!, the training of a saint. Wesley remarked that he knew a man who lost and regained holiness 5 times before he learned how to keep it.
Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?
- Thread starter Episkopos
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
I don't believe you can keep it purposely. I tried. Neither do I think that Wesley got that far. The ECF's would not agree. There seems to be training that only God will decide if it is done and then one will no longer go in and out.Ah yes!, the training of a saint. Wesley remarked that he knew a man who lost and regained holiness 5 times before he learned how to keep it.
When you were out of the Spirit?
How can you be out of the Spirit if you have been Born Again of imperishable seed?
Who abideth and liveth forever?
Hi Rita it is as epi has said; it has to do with the higher walk when one is not just crucified with Christ as a legal position but is as reality. When one has been though it one knows exactly what it was like - usually horrible as you lose the presence of God and it feels like the heavens are as brass. But when you try to find Him He is not to be found even begging Him to show you your sin.
Much has been written about this and Job went through it. It usually comes when a believer begins to feel they are not worthy of Christ as they let Him down. A person who is satisfied with his/her walk is not on this path.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Yes there is! and it's talked about in scripture I think. Something about being ankle deep in the Spirit, and then knee deep, then waist deep, and finally over your head deep where you actually must swim in the Spirit. (I forget the refrence but it's there).
I think that when people choose to believe and accept Jesus as their Savior that they get born again and go home ankle deep in the Spirit of the Lord. This is scriptural Promise. But then we can't go back home and continue to be conformed to the world and we need a renewing of our mind Like in:
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God....KJV
It tells us right there how to do it, to go deeper with God. First thing, don't conform to the world at all anymore. The old man is dead and all things are new. Transform yourselves by the renewing of your mind. This is part of the sanctification process and you do it by immersing yourself into the Word of God. Your Bible. Read it cover to cover all the way through, read it, meditate on it, think about it...Saturate your mind with the word of God (prayerfully) and you will be taken by surprise one day with a reward for your obedience and diligence in seeking everything you can about Him. When the cup of your mind (and your heart) is full of the word of God it will begin to overflow and has the effect of purging the bad things out of your heart that you stil held preciously.
It almost felt like being promoted to me. It happened to me and I firmly believe that I have been baptised in the Holy Spirit. I don't feel like I am swimming yet. I have further to go for that. But after you apply yourself to transforming your mind through the the word of God diligently enough you get a surprise is how it felt to me. And He blesses you some way and lets you know, this is who I Am, good job and a blessing. When I got baptised in the Spirit it made me feel knee deep maybe or shin deep.
I was appliying myself very much because I was in a state of great appreciation for Him and I want to grow in Him, the higher walk, and the Lord helped with me with a 4 word prayer and saved my life at one time. When He does those things for you not only do you grow but your faith is encouraged. So you begin acting out in faith more and when you act out in faith, that puts the ball in the Lord's Court and the Lord does not miss responding to faith in action, that's what He does! It's in His job description!
For instance one time, I was self employed and in my slow season and I ran out of coffee just as a Friend was going to come over. I like being the host that does hook them with a lousy cup of coffee at least when they grace my doorstep!I like coffe it is kind of a big thing, lol. I didnt have any money to run up and buy some real quick. I thought about praying to the Lord and putting it in His hands, but I remembered the scripture that says we don't have to worry about what we will eat or drink or wear for the Lord knows our needs before we even pray, remember? I did. So I did not pray for more money or work to buy some or anything. I fugured it says dont be worried about it so I didn't worry about it. I am positive that I did not pray that prayer!
I didn't realize it at the time but I had acted in Faith by not saying the prayer and standing on the word of God and what it says. I stood on the word! But I wouldn't have coffee this time for my guest that was coming. Oh well, those things happen sometimes, no big deal.
30 minutes later my friend knocks on the door and as he enters I see has has something in his hand. It is bag of coffee beans and he is handing it to me! Somehow, he got the urge to stop and get your friend some coffee as a present so he did. He brought me a 2 LB bag of some sort of delicious Hawaiian coffee some gourmet stuff, it was good! Much better than Folgers, lol!
To sum it up: The Almighty Creator of the Universe, God had delivered to me coffee right when I needed it...in less than 30 minutes from when I decided to not pray for money or coffee, lol! And He did that for me because that's what He does. Have faith in Him which is what I did so the Lord wanted to be nice to me about it. Big bad Almighty God! Who'da knew? He is outrageously nice guy!
He answered a prayer that I didn't make, because I didn't make it. That is a new one on me! But it was an act of faith. So the more we exercise our faith the more miracles we get to see. What kind of God of the Universe delivers coffee to His peon servant at home? When that hit me I went (TILT) like a pinball machine..it changed my perspective a wee bit! Praise the Lord, He is so good and has done so many things for me that I have easily maybe 20 30 Testimonies of things that were supernatural in nature. It's awesome and I'm only shin deep at best, lol. So it became clear to me that in a way it is transactional. When you act in faith, you are walking in faith. Nothing may happen if you do not act in Faith. Remember Peter in scripture? He had to act in faith to get out of the boat and committ his weight to the water before he was able to walk on the water and you can bet his eyes were on Jesus! He didnt start sinking until he took his eyes off of Jesus! Lord help our unbelief!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what Satan wants a believer to see.. To feel we are not worthy and because of it. We can not find God.
The Fact is, we are not worthy. None of us are.. But we should not look to that. we should look to Christ. sitting at the right hand of God making intercession for us.
We should know we have eternal life. and based on this knowledge we can continue to have faith. because we are continually looking to him. the founder of our faith. and not to our self..
Anyone who looks to self and think they are worthy. has not found God or his or her truth
As stated, it is the higher walk and unrelated to the lower level where men are seeing through the eyes of the flesh and know nothing about the crisis of faith which comes when conviction as seen before revivals, brings men and that is believers to their knees with faces in the dust when their pride and arrogance are revealed to them.
Blessings Hepzibah! You can not keep it purposely. It is as The Lord wills. When I am in The Spirit I can not, for an example, close a register. This takes my thinking to do. When I am in The Spirit, that is The Lord(The Holy Spirit) coming forward. When I laid down my life I give The Lord permission to use me as He wishes. I am no longer my own, but His, to do as He wishes. One must be willing to be the least of the breathern, to be of no account, to be humble as The Lord is humble. We are to be constantly clean(repented up) so as to be a useful vessel unto honor and not dishonor. And yes there is a training that would not be believed and yet it is so. And lastly The Lord must be everything to us and must come before everything else, as He deserves to be. All Glory Honor and Praise belong to Him and Him alone.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You did not get this from the word of God.
The higher walk is living out your identity of being in Christ.
the lower walk is living out your flesh..
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
yet all inclusive love LOOKS TO SELF and NOT TO CHRIST .
yeah satan can preach another love and make a very broad road indeed . BUT THIS LAMB wont be heeding him
or his all inclusive men either .
There is a much higher walk in faith....we start out as new babes...
For me the higher walk of Faith is putting my complete trust in God for everything.....that takes time to establish and understand.
Coming out of the flesh and into the Spirit is pretty mind blowing in itself....a whole new nature have we just received..I must say I don’t understand a lot of what Epi teaches nor of his followers...
Not my concern, I’m on my own journey with the Lord, that’s good enough for me....he reveals to my heart what he chooses to reveal....through focusing on his Living word..the Bible....that’s how we get to know him.
For me the higher walk of Faith is putting my complete trust in God for everything.....that takes time to establish and understand.
Coming out of the flesh and into the Spirit is pretty mind blowing in itself....a whole new nature have we just received..I must say I don’t understand a lot of what Epi teaches nor of his followers...
Not my concern, I’m on my own journey with the Lord, that’s good enough for me....he reveals to my heart what he chooses to reveal....through focusing on his Living word..the Bible....that’s how we get to know him.
A believer is such by having faith in God...not just agree to a religious scheme or assent to some religious dogma. Many will claim to be believers but also many will be rejected on that day. Many will say Lord, Lord and be rejected. That should cause fear in the people who are honest. It causes anger in those who don't fear the Lord.
The gospel is not about looking to Christ. That is too easy to do from self...self-preservation. The gospel is about entering INTO Christ to abide in Him...to be found IN Him. Your idea of looking to Christ is not a biblical one. Jesus is precisely invisible to us because of such schemes. People only think they are looking to Christ whereas it is the imagination at work so often. Why are you so set against seeking God and His kingdom? Is it because you think it is impossible? What about doing all things through Christ? What about with God all things are possible? But then we come back to a believer needing to have faith.
That is backward...and is based on religious beliefs. Faith actually knows God in truth...not speculation. Who said you have eternal life? You will say the bible told you so. The bible is also telling you about your blindness to the truth.
It's funny you speak of finding God...as if you believe that seeking Him wasn't of the flesh, or of the devil. Your world is upside down.
Last edited:
I believe it is both, because we are to work out our salvation....and it is hard even for the righteous to be saved....so we need to run the race wholeheartedly so as to win it. Maybe we could say there are two sides to this coin, but not sure I have a good grasp of it. In the language of scripture it is indeed called a "hope" and we are to "hope to the end"......I get a sense that we are not to take salvation for granted but walk humbly and circumspectly before our God. That is what our heart attitude should be...there is often too much self-assurance and smugness in Christendom which people need to grow out of, but don't always. I think that has to do with how much our flesh is being crucified...how much we have died to. And there is not just milk of the word to take in, but we need to go on to the harder to digest meat of the word in order to grow. It's just like maturing and growing in real life.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I think that a lot of new Christians that get born again tend to remain babes in Christ. If you ask someone about if they have any testimonies of what the Lord has done for them, They are like, oh Yeah Brother. When I was saved this happened and that happened, I'll never forget that day in 1984...
And thats good and these are our Brothers & Sisters that we will have in heaven. But if listens to the word and begins applying it to their life then they start receiving more and more blessings from the Lord because the Lord rewards obedience and this is where the deeper walk takes place. In stricter obedience to the Lord. Give the Lord more of your time and resources to show that you believe in Him first.
The way I figure it, I want to be promoted within His kingdom. (I don't want to be the plumber again, lol!) so I want to do what scripture says for my benefit and it says to build up our treasures in heaven. how to do this is easy, the closer you can get your life to living what is on every single page of the Bible the better and deeper will be your relationship with the Lord.
christians should not be saying, God moved!!! (back in 1988). what did He do for you this week? If you can't think of anything then you need to apply yourself more and become more diligent with your time, reading, praying and good deeds to others in need.
Remember this too, God will put you to the test! He will create situations where you (if you choose wisely) can do a good thing...or to do a better thing. An example:
Have you ever gave a homeless guy $5 so he could get something to eat? Have you ever walked away feeling bad that it was only $5 which really isnt enough to eat with anymore. It should have been a $20 I thought. You cant get any fast food meals for $5 anymore.
But you cant out give the Lord. I know a guy and he got an avalanch of bills over some property deal somehow, his house I think. And they was said some mistake had been made and merry christmas but you owe us like a couple or few thousand dollars or something like that and so he had been praying about it cuz not paying this on time would kick in a lot of penalties and all that which they didnt want.
And something miraculous happend, he got a windfall of cash somehow like one week before the deadline! Praise the Lord! Him and his wife were ecstatic and praising the Lord, for He is Good! He answered our Prayers!
They got up the next morning, the wife went to work. Before the daddy went to work the telephone rings. Very close old friend, in dire need of help. He needs almost as much as windfall was of course! Please help me Brother! He said he had to pray about it and would call him back. He prayed it about it, Lord what is thy will in this? Then went home and discussed it with his wife. He told his wife that he feels like the Lord wants him to help that man with the windfall money instead of paying the back taxes...and she of course hit the roof! No! Nein! That put him in a tight spot. Obey his Wife who he has to live with, or obey God? He told me the Lord clearly told him to give them all the money they just got by windfall even though what the guy asked for was slightly less!
So my good friend and Brother in Christ, did dis-obey his Wife and she was very wroth!! He gave away a few thousand dollars because "God told him to" over his Wife's reasonable desire to get caught up on all bills. Nothing wrong with that.
One thing I remember I had to learn the hard way and that is, be very sure that you really want what you wish for and pray for because you might just get it. But! To more who is given, more will be required so don't go in blind like I did, Consider the cost! Some things come with a cost.
I prayed for the Lord to increase my faith. Sounds like an admirable request, right? After all, I was on a roll for the Lord! Praise Jesus! It is real! He is real! Lord increase my faith...
It started the very next day. I went into such a terrible season of difficulty and tribulations non stop for like 2 or 3 weeks. I recognized it for an answer to my prayer. I had regret that I prayed for that then. I wasnt ready for that. But I did live through it thank God and so I had my faith increased some. And I've never prayed that prayer again since that time. Oh I did come out of it ok but everything was collapsing all around me. Nothing uncommon to man just all at once, lol! Not fun! Not fun!
And thats good and these are our Brothers & Sisters that we will have in heaven. But if listens to the word and begins applying it to their life then they start receiving more and more blessings from the Lord because the Lord rewards obedience and this is where the deeper walk takes place. In stricter obedience to the Lord. Give the Lord more of your time and resources to show that you believe in Him first.
The way I figure it, I want to be promoted within His kingdom. (I don't want to be the plumber again, lol!) so I want to do what scripture says for my benefit and it says to build up our treasures in heaven. how to do this is easy, the closer you can get your life to living what is on every single page of the Bible the better and deeper will be your relationship with the Lord.
christians should not be saying, God moved!!! (back in 1988). what did He do for you this week? If you can't think of anything then you need to apply yourself more and become more diligent with your time, reading, praying and good deeds to others in need.
Remember this too, God will put you to the test! He will create situations where you (if you choose wisely) can do a good thing...or to do a better thing. An example:
Have you ever gave a homeless guy $5 so he could get something to eat? Have you ever walked away feeling bad that it was only $5 which really isnt enough to eat with anymore. It should have been a $20 I thought. You cant get any fast food meals for $5 anymore.
But you cant out give the Lord. I know a guy and he got an avalanch of bills over some property deal somehow, his house I think. And they was said some mistake had been made and merry christmas but you owe us like a couple or few thousand dollars or something like that and so he had been praying about it cuz not paying this on time would kick in a lot of penalties and all that which they didnt want.
And something miraculous happend, he got a windfall of cash somehow like one week before the deadline! Praise the Lord! Him and his wife were ecstatic and praising the Lord, for He is Good! He answered our Prayers!
They got up the next morning, the wife went to work. Before the daddy went to work the telephone rings. Very close old friend, in dire need of help. He needs almost as much as windfall was of course! Please help me Brother! He said he had to pray about it and would call him back. He prayed it about it, Lord what is thy will in this? Then went home and discussed it with his wife. He told his wife that he feels like the Lord wants him to help that man with the windfall money instead of paying the back taxes...and she of course hit the roof! No! Nein! That put him in a tight spot. Obey his Wife who he has to live with, or obey God? He told me the Lord clearly told him to give them all the money they just got by windfall even though what the guy asked for was slightly less!
So my good friend and Brother in Christ, did dis-obey his Wife and she was very wroth!! He gave away a few thousand dollars because "God told him to" over his Wife's reasonable desire to get caught up on all bills. Nothing wrong with that.
One thing I remember I had to learn the hard way and that is, be very sure that you really want what you wish for and pray for because you might just get it. But! To more who is given, more will be required so don't go in blind like I did, Consider the cost! Some things come with a cost.
I prayed for the Lord to increase my faith. Sounds like an admirable request, right? After all, I was on a roll for the Lord! Praise Jesus! It is real! He is real! Lord increase my faith...
It started the very next day. I went into such a terrible season of difficulty and tribulations non stop for like 2 or 3 weeks. I recognized it for an answer to my prayer. I had regret that I prayed for that then. I wasnt ready for that. But I did live through it thank God and so I had my faith increased some. And I've never prayed that prayer again since that time. Oh I did come out of it ok but everything was collapsing all around me. Nothing uncommon to man just all at once, lol! Not fun! Not fun!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
so we have to work to keep ourselves saved?
That would put us under law not under grace.
lets set aside our self righteousness. And praise God for so great a salvation that we could never earn
We obey the Lord mostly because we know Him and love Him and thus love what is righteous and true. But also fear of the Lord also works for our good from time to time when we especially need it.
What I've noticed is that sometimes our carnal mind asks what are actually carnal questions that can't really be answered in a carnal way. I just try to take in everything that the bible says, and if some things don't make complete sense to me, well I just believe and receive it anyhow and wait for spiritual understanding to come later.
Bless you precious brother, and thank your for your testimony.
It is encouraging. God is so good, praise His name! Sorry to be so late responding, I have trouble keeping up. I know what you mean, the Lord sometimes doesnt' answer prayers the way we would like....we ask for something without realizing yet what the cost would be. Nevertheless He is faithful to lead us through and all we have to do sometimes is hold on to Him and wait it out until the Lord proves Himself so to speak, and that is how we grow in faith. It's like how do we learn to trust in God's provision when we already have money in the bank....first we need to be in need of money and then we will see Him provide.Yes, I know that scripture you're talking about, of going deeper in the river of God (His Spirit) until it is over our heads! Amen! Think it was Elijah if my memory is working, which it isn't always. Yep, you were in over your head for a while there, lol. But God came through. ( Might be more than one way to understand those verses..?)
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Bless you precious brother, and thank your for your testimony.
Yes, I know that scripture you're talking about, of going deeper in the river of God (His Spirit) until it is over our heads! Amen! Think it was Elijah if my memory is working, which it isn't always. Yep, you were in over your head for a while there, lol. But God came through. ( Might be more than one way to understand those verses..?)
I agree with that. we prove ourselves first though, and accept Him as our Lord and give our life to Him, right? Then it becomes a back and forth thing. Lord can I walk on water too? Yes you can but you have to get up and out of the boat first! So it's like, building a resume of trust with the Lord. WHen we draw closer to Him, then He draws closer to us. and that's when miracles happen and blessings flow. And you know what? My idiotic carnal mind still tries to argue with me about things that we all were present for when it happened! The Lord has proven Himself to me many times. So I tell my carnal mind to shut up, lol.
Sorry, I forgot the end of my friend and his wife's testimony. He gave away all of his cash to the man that God told Him too. His Wife did get mad. The Lord gave them 24 hours to work through it for a test. And the next day early an old bussiness partner of his shows up and is cutting ties with that city and moving to a different state and can't take everything. so he gave him like two wharehouses full of equipment and materials and all sorts of stuff that was immediately valuable. So they easily paid their taxes and had some left over. Praise God! I bet that encouraged his Wife!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
always remember this simple truth .
Those who are OF GOD would hear us ,
those who are not of GOD do not hear us .
NEVER let them trick you into believing other religoins know GOD just cause they might do them some good works .
Ye hear me not , SAID JESUS to the UNBELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST jews ,
YE hear me not FOR YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP .
HE who denies JESUS is the CHRIST
is anti christ . that dont sound LIKE THEY OF GOD OR EVEN KNOW GOD now do it .
Yet we got us a man on this site who be a teaching inclusivism
which says OTHERWISE to what JESUS and later the apostles taught about FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
I dont care if the man can speak parital truths , HE BE BANKRUPT of the truth
if hims thinks muslims and other religions can pick up their cross EVEN without havig to repent and believe on JESUS CHRIST .
You all better watch out . one who has long preached another gospel is at work as are many others .
What on earth does it matter , IF ONE BELIEVES NOT ON JESUS CHRIST .
I mean even the top man of good works and prayers and alms , SO much good that his works and prayers were made mention of
by an angel , YET STILL had to hear and believe the gospel to be saved . IF EVEN CORNELIOUS
had to believe , WHAT ON EARTH makes us think OTHER RELIGOINS DONT . BINGO . DONT let them pluck
the true gospel from our hearts . THEIR lies have made sad the heart of the lambs . THESE PEOPLE
preach nohting but a means of doing good , and even try and teach the cross
and yet SEEM to omit the fact YE MUST BELIEVE ON HE who was FIRST CRUCIFIED on said cross .
DONT fall for it . We must preach the dire need to beleive on CHRIST
then EXHORT and remind THE BELIEVERS to heed the SPIRIT to do good works , to die daily and etc .
BUT ALL is futile if one believes NOT or even tries to say its not necessary to HAVE TO BELIEVE on JESUS CHRIST .
SEVERE damanation awaits all WHO TROD the DIRE NEED to have to had believed ON JESUS THE CHRIST . just a friendly reminder .
- Status
Similar threads
