Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?

[Ritajanice]

From what I read, scriptures teach a concept of growth - that we are to grow in what we have been given. Apprehending more of that for which we were apprehended by Christ. Yet, like Paul, in humility not considering that we have yet apprehended. Eye has not seen nor ear has heard what God has laid up for us. But we are to keep seeking and reaching for it/Him.

We walk in Faith and trust God...to bring us to fully understand his word, he does it via his Spirit...I was in total confusion for a long time...I walked in Faith believing God would bring me out of that terrible confusion...it was truly a nightmare..the enemy sent me barmy ....God had other plans..he set me free from that confusion...the enemy will confuse and that’s where he wants us to stay.

God is not a God of confusion....hard lesson learnt...regarding confusion...Praise God Always.

 

[Lizbeth]

We have access into the kingdom realm...not a guarantee. Most have no idea about what the gospel is about...thinking it is a way to save the flesh and sinful humanity IN their sins.

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access to the Father and the heavenly kingdom realm by faith. Jesus said that even among those who tried very few would be able to pass through. You can extrapolate that to people who don't even try.

Not so fast. There is no "positional" spiritualization that is biblical. That would be like every bride taking the "positional" position that they are already pregnant...because they are now married. Being married and being pregnant are two separate things. Having a deposit of grace and being filled with the Spirit are very different. (I've even given them different colours to prove my point! )

A seed and a plant are related...but they are not the same thing. A seed potentially becomes a plant IF the conditions are met. In the hard ground of this world very few seeds become plants.

To my understanding the imagery/allegories of scripture need to be taken as God intended, not literally, or necessarily in a linear way, but as spiritual language, which can be multi-dimensional so to speak. We are married to Him, because as believers we have received His seed in us. That is what marriage is, the two becoming one. And having His seed in us spiritually means we are pregnant. Our task now is to grow/gestate that seed and give birth to the Son (in us) as it were. (Mary being a type/shadow/allegory of the church.) Spirit giving birth to spirit. And every time we are in the spirit or God does something in or through us, we are in fact giving birth to Him. AKA manifesting Christ. And this can at different times be in a less deep/high or more deep/high way. Though in an overall way we are on or should be on, a growth trajectory. Sometimes the Lord may do something utterly amazing, and sometimes He may do things that are wonderful but not as deep/high. Sometimes He may not be doing much at all that can be seen on a given day...just like life......there is a time/season to everything under heaven. I don't see this as being a one and done linear one-dimensional thing. And I wonder if our growth is not the only factor, surely His will plays a part too. Think I've mentioned this as an example before, but even though Paul was taken up to the third heaven, God didn't keep him there at that time.

 

[Lizbeth]

Works based, No better than the jews..

Its all about me, not about Christ.

If people can not see this,, Well. I feel sorry for them

Dear brother, I believe it's faith and works together, as taught in James. The first 'work' we do after being saved, yes by faith alone, is confessing with our mouth, and that kind of seals the deal. Confession is made unto salvation. A little "work" right there from the get-go:

Rom 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But it's not a matter of trying to establish our own righteousness, like the Jews under Law, but rather if we abide in the Vine, fruit will be produced in a more natural way by obeying/submitting to Christ, His righteousness in us. And even then our fruit is being brought to perfection.....and also even our fruitful branches get pruned from time to time to become even more abundant. (Can't seem to get away from the idea of growth and increase, in scripture.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus said that out of our bellies would flow rivers of living water. Like a cup that has a hidden source that causes it to overflow... the continuous outpouring overflows to those around us. Can any impurities be added to such a cup? Doesn't a river take away any impurities we throw into it as it flows? There is a keeping power to God's grace once we receive it in it's FULL MEASURE. But to get that full measure we need to take our deposit of grace and with boldness seek the Lord at His throne for more grace. Of course that level of grace demands that we give all to God...seeking Him with a whole heart.

May grace be multiplied to you who love the Lord and the truth.

I believe even our seeking needs to be in humility and led by the Lord. Sometimes He gives people what they ask for, in order to teach them something about themselves.

 

[Episkopos]

We can still have darkness in us. A born-again person in the faith of Christ Jesus will be lured to the things of the world and can still do the same things people who are lost in the world do. It's a battle between the old man/woman and new man/woman.

That is...until one is crucified to be joined with Christ in His resurrection life. There is a full victory in the higher walk. We can learn and improve...and become more and more surrendered to Christ. But we will never walk as He walked until we go to the throne of grace for the full measure of what Jesus won for us at Calvary.

The higher walk is the best kept secret in the world...and the church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dear brother, I believe it's faith and works together, as taught in James. The first 'work' we do after being saved, yes by faith alone, is confessing with our mouth, and that kind of seals the deal. Confession is made unto salvation. A little "work" right there from the get-go:

Rom 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But it's not a matter of trying to establish our own righteousness, like the Jews under Law, but rather if we abide in the Vine, fruit will be produced in a more natural way by obeying/submitting to Christ, His righteousness in us. And even then our fruit is being brought to perfection.....and also even our fruitful branches get pruned from time to time to become even more abundant. (Can't seem to get away from the idea of growth and increase, in scripture.)

No one deny's there will be growth.

What is in discussion here is how we are saved.

Is salvation an instant as the apostle John in his gospel shows so many times and so many places.

Or are we on a journey and hope we arrive to the end to go to heaven?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No But our reward is: Hay stubble Gold silver etc. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

Yes, true

But if you listen. the OP is saying our salvation is dependent..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no sin possible in the Spirit. You have probably bought into the sinful holiness ploy that so many teach these days. Yes, walking in the Spirit is the higher walk...walking in the light as He is in the light. Abiding in Christ...in Him is no sin.


Yes...for two extended periods. The first time at conversion...where I lasted a few days...until I couldn't take it anymore. And then for 2.5 years the second time 18 years later. That time came to an end over 20 years ago now.

The whole point of being here is to learn, to grow, to come to a deeper understanding of God and His will.


Of course not. I don't count myself as worthy of anything...quite the contrary as I failed the Lord twice now...in a big way (Of course in multitudes of smaller ways too). I don't look at truth as something to benefit from. Truth just is. Whether I am acceptable to God or not is up to Him. The race isn't over. And I do get His visitational touches from time to time. It's all part of the training.

The last time I was on my bike...late last summer...and I was surrounded by an inexpressible love...an eternal peace...without seeing anything or hearing anything. This lasted about 10-15 minutes. I felt I was transported to an eternal place...although I heard nothing and saw nothing. A brief touch from God. Just learning different facets of God and His expressions of love. But being empowered to walk in resurrection life??? Not for decades.

I rest my case

 

[Lizbeth]

No one deny's there will be growth.

What is in discussion here is how we are saved.

Is salvation an instant as the apostle John in his gospel shows so many times and so many places.

Or are we on a journey and hope we arrive to the end to go to heaven?

Yes I know you believe in the concept of growth, amen, I just threw that in there.

But I don't believe we are to take salvation for granted. For one example, Jesus even said we are to pray to be accounted worthy, and "if it is hard even for the righteous to be saved....". Anyway I don't know if this might be going off topic a bit, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Ritajanice]

Well, I’m glad to see that no one is attacking Epi, for his belief system....I think this is also very pleasing to the Lord...imo.

 

[marks]

To my understanding the imagery/allegories of scripture need to be taken as God intended, not literally, or necessarily in a linear way, but as spiritual language, which can be multi-dimensional so to speak. We are married to Him, because as believers we have received His seed in us. That is what marriage is, the two becoming one. And having His seed in us spiritually means we are pregnant. Our task now is to grow/gestate that seed and give birth to the Son (in us) as it were. (Mary being a type/shadow/allegory of the church.) Spirit giving birth to spirit. And every time we are in the spirit or God does something in or through us, we are in fact giving birth to Him. AKA manifesting Christ. And this can at different times be in a less deep/high or more deep/high way. Though in an overall way we are on or should be on, a growth trajectory. Sometimes the Lord may do something utterly amazing, and sometimes He may do things that are wonderful but not as deep/high. Sometimes He may not be doing much at all that can be seen on a given day...just like life......there is a time/season to everything under heaven. I don't see this as being a one and done linear one-dimensional thing. And I wonder if our growth is not the only factor, surely His will plays a part too. Think I've mentioned this as an example before, but even though Paul was taken up to the third heaven, God didn't keep him there at that time.

Well said!!!

I'll add, God understands us in ways we do not, and sometimes we may think He's doing something for a certain reason, but that may have nothing to do with it. I've seen seeds planted by God in my life that took decades to sprout and bear their intended fruit.

Your words remind me of,

2 Corinthians 4:7-11 KJV
7) But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8) We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9) Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10) Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11) For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Bearing in our body the dying of the Lord Jesus.

According to Romans 6, we've been crucified with Him. Now, Paul speaks of bearing in our body Jesus' dying. We were crucified with Him in a mystical and spiritual way, now we are to bring that spiritual crucifixion into our bodies. Bearing in our body His dying.

Til Christ be formed in you.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

That is...until one is crucified to be joined with Christ in His resurrection life. There is a full victory in the higher walk. We can learn and improve...and become more and more surrendered to Christ. But we will never walk as He walked until we go to the throne of grace for the full measure of what Jesus won for us at Calvary.

The higher walk is the best kept secret in the world...and the church.

Yes, a Born Again has already been crucified with Christ, and yes I understand the resurrection life...we have been resurrected in our spirit , it been brought to life by the imperishable seed of God...we too will have resurrected bodies when we leave this earth,.,,at the moment it’s our spirit that has become Spiritually Alive in Christ...

Luke 24:6-7​

Luke 24:6-7 KJV​

He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Romans 8:11​

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King James Version​

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11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

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Galatians 2:20 ►

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Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. New Living Translation My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. English Standard Version I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Berean Standard Bible I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. Berean Literal Bible I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.

 

[Azim]

Amen Azim. Yes, the deeper walk is to be immersed in the Spirit...totally immersed in His eternal embrace. The keeping power of God I liken to a fridge magnet. As long as we don't let the world and the cares of the world come between us and the Lord the "magnetic force" of God's Spirit at that level keeps us in His holy presence where there is no spot or wrinkle of sin. When the cares or sins we have and do come between the magnet of God's love and ourselves then the keeping power is overcome and we fall back into our human limitations.

But in Christ we go both in and out....whether present or absent.

Run to win.

I like your explanation of using a magnet. I was thinking of my experience before, and likened it to grasping onto God's leg tightly, like a little child. But to let go is a full conscious decision or reasoning on our part. You can not easily enter out of it on a whim. I think it makes the matter worse, once we realize we are the ones who choose to leave the walk.

 

[Episkopos]

I like your explanation of using a magnet. I was thinking of my experience before, and likened it to grasping onto God's leg tightly, like a little child. But to let go is a full conscious decision or reasoning on our part. You can not easily enter out of it on a whim. I think it makes the matter worse, once we realize we are the ones who choose to leave the walk.

Hey Azim. Good to hear your comments. What makes this so difficult to convey to others...without always assuming that we are always to be sinners in this world....is that there are two levels of walk. When I hear so many deny this....I know they have not experienced the higher walk. It's like the difference between firing blanks and firing live rounds. When you speak of the recoil of a heavier caliber gun...the ones who have only fired blanks all their lives will protest and think you are making things up. As in..."what??? there's no recoil...no projectiles...it's just positional and mystical spiritualized shooting"). All this to identify themselves as blank shooters.

The magnet analogy works on those two levels. When I say shooting blanks I mean that the one who is attracted to Christ...or drawn to Christ, has not necessarily experienced the eternal kind of life yet. And that is why I get so much opposition, when I try relating the actual life that entails through a true entrance into Christ.

That's why I use the terms the lower walk of faith (our faith) and the higher walk of Faith ...the faith OF Christ. "From faith INTO faith", as Paul says. Both are good. But it behooves us to not confuse them. Firing blanks is a good thing as long as you aren't claiming to be shooting live rounds. (In reality the danger is the opposite, thinking you are firing blanks when in actuality there are live rounds in the gun...like that movie incident where a producer was killed on set. )

What kills us is to name and claim things that are not true. (I'm not saying you are doing this, but we must define our terms).

So then we can draw near to God in our morning seeking/bible reading/meditation/prayers. Like collecting the DEW of the morning. And that is both good and necessary. But compared to the kingdom walk in the Spirit, we are firing blanks still. Jesus said that the LEAST in the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist. And John was VERY zealous in his seeking. I'm sure a LOT more zealous than those who gather the morning dew in their devotions. So we have to understand the scale of the gospel.

There's dew but there's also the rain that falls from heaven. That is something that we can experience in a revival, whether personal or corporate. And even here I'm not talking about the outward signs and wonders that are produced by this...but the LIFE, the eternal life that is experienced by those who are translated into the kingdom realm to walk as Jesus walked.

To be present with the Lord means we are walking in the Spirit (not physically dead as the spiritually dead attest). To be present with the Lord means we are WHERE He is...in the abode of heaven. Holiness is about location, location, location. The real estate is the field that contains the treasure. We buy the field as we surrender our own lives...with its devotions and seekings...in order to be fully possessed of Christ. I say that with meaning...being possessed. They who BELONG to Christ have been crucified...no longer walking by a human standard at all...but a divine one. People claim they have all these things as if it was all taking place in an imaginary way. These think of spiritual things in terms of the imagination...naming and claiming things that aren't true of themselves. It is no wonder that Jesus will reject so many on that day. (Our Western privilege, with its underlying arrogance, has caused multitudes to claim to be rich even in their wretched state.)

God tested the faith of the Israelites in the wilderness...which they failed. But we are failing the exact same way they did. We are NOT entering into the kingdom realm, instead claiming that an initial gift of grace is sufficient for our version of salvation. But who is seeking the standard of God? Are we born from above to be smug with one step into the race? Or will we be like Caleb and Joshua who defied the status quo and trusted in God to do the impossible?

When the Son of Man returns will He find Faith on the Earth?

That's not to disparage the lower walk. It's just that we need to not esteem ourselves higher than we ought to...and rather fear the Lord in humility even as we thank Him for what we are clearly not understanding fully yet.

 

[Episkopos]

Hey Azim. Good to hear your comments. What makes this so difficult to convey to others...without always assuming that we are always to be sinners in this world....is that there are two levels of walk. When I hear so many deny this....I know they have not experienced the higher walk. It's like the difference between firing blanks and firing live rounds. When you speak of the recoil of a heavier caliber gun...the ones who have only fired blanks all their lives will protest and think you are making things up. As in..."what??? there's no recoil...no projectiles...it's just positional and mystical spiritualized shooting"). All this to identify themselves as blank shooters.

The magnet analogy works on those two levels. When I say shooting blanks I mean that the one who is attracted to Christ...or drawn to Christ, has not necessarily experienced the eternal kind of life yet. And that is why I get so much opposition, when I try relating the actual life that entails through a true entrance into Christ.

That's why I use the terms the lower walk of faith (our faith) and the higher walk of Faith ...the faith OF Christ. "From faith INTO faith", as Paul says. Both are good. But it behooves us to not confuse them. Firing blanks is a good thing as long as you aren't claiming to be shooting live rounds. (In reality the danger is the opposite, thinking you are firing blanks when in actuality there are live rounds in the gun...like that movie incident where a producer was killed on set. )

What kills us is to name and claim things that are not true. (I'm not saying you are doing this, but we must define our terms).

So then we can draw near to God in our morning seeking/bible reading/meditation/prayers. Like collecting the DEW of the morning. And that is both good and necessary. But compared to the kingdom walk in the Spirit, we are firing blanks still. Jesus said that the LEAST in the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist. And John was VERY zealous in his seeking. I'm sure a LOT more zealous than those who gather the morning dew in their devotions. So we have to understand the scale of the gospel.

There's dew but there's also the rain that falls from heaven. That is something that we can experience in a revival, whether personal or corporate. And even here I'm not talking about the outward signs and wonders that are produced by this...but the LIFE, the eternal life that is experienced by those who are translated into the kingdom realm to walk as Jesus walked.

To be present with the Lord means we are walking in the Spirit (not physically dead as the spiritually dead attest). To be present with the Lord means we are WHERE He is...in the abode of heaven. Holiness is about location, location, location. The real estate is the field that contains the treasure. We buy the field as we surrender our own lives...with its devotions and seekings...in order to be fully possessed of Christ. I say that with meaning...being possessed. They who BELONG to Christ have been crucified...no longer walking by a human standard at all...but a divine one. People claim they have all these things as if it was all taking place in an imaginary way. These think of spiritual things in terms of the imagination...naming and claiming things that aren't true of themselves. It is no wonder that Jesus will reject so many on that day. (Our Western privilege, with its underlying arrogance, has caused multitudes to claim to be rich even in their wretched state.)

God tested the faith of the Israelites in the wilderness...which they failed. But we are failing the exact same way they did. We are NOT entering into the kingdom realm, instead claiming that an initial gift of grace is sufficient for our version of salvation. But who is seeking the standard of God? Are we born from above to be smug with one step into the race? Or will we be like Caleb and Joshua who defied the status quo and trusted in God to do the impossible?

When the Son of Man returns will He find Faith on the Earth?

That's not to disparage the lower walk. It's just that we need to not esteem ourselves higher than we ought to...and rather fear the Lord in humility even as we thank Him for what we are clearly not understanding fully yet.

I realize that many will find my post offensive to their sensibilities. As in...how dare I consider that most of us, if not all, are only walking in the "lower walk" of faith....the faith of humans. This will strike many as being offensive. However, we have God to consider. Can we stand up to His judgments?

It was Charles Spurgeon who said "Christ offends men because His gospel is intolerant of sin."

 

[Ritajanice]

We grow in faith....we go from faith the size of a mustard seed, to much higher walk in faith, where I know God is in control of my life, .there is SO much to learn and understand regarding faith in God.

Epi, this has been a great thought provoking topic, ....I understand when you say...there is a much higher walk in faith...I agree ....

Faith is the most precious gift anyone can receive from God.....my trust “ NOW” is in God and there is “ NOTHING “ he can’t do, his thoughts and ways are much ,much higher than ours.

I had an incident yesterday, I won’t bore you with the details...anyway, I said at the time, over to You Lord, I can’t fix this problem..and it was a huge problem....he fixed it, sent the right person who came out of nowhere, that stranger fixed a huge problem....I know that was all of God...when these sort of things happen....it just strengthens my faith even more....just my opinion and thoughts.

Edit to add, please don’t expect God to act straight away, he doesn’t always....that’s when we keep walking the walk of Faith trusting in him and only him....he meets my every need, he’s even helped me manage money problems...the enemy wants me to spend and get into debt , God had other plans...it was a long journey getting me to this place of being debt free..,,Praise Almighty God.....

 

[Lizbeth]

Hey Azim. Good to hear your comments. What makes this so difficult to convey to others...without always assuming that we are always to be sinners in this world....is that there are two levels of walk. When I hear so many deny this....I know they have not experienced the higher walk. It's like the difference between firing blanks and firing live rounds. When you speak of the recoil of a heavier caliber gun...the ones who have only fired blanks all their lives will protest and think you are making things up. As in..."what??? there's no recoil...no projectiles...it's just positional and mystical spiritualized shooting"). All this to identify themselves as blank shooters.

The magnet analogy works on those two levels. When I say shooting blanks I mean that the one who is attracted to Christ...or drawn to Christ, has not necessarily experienced the eternal kind of life yet. And that is why I get so much opposition, when I try relating the actual life that entails through a true entrance into Christ.

That's why I use the terms the lower walk of faith (our faith) and the higher walk of Faith ...the faith OF Christ. "From faith INTO faith", as Paul says. Both are good. But it behooves us to not confuse them. Firing blanks is a good thing as long as you aren't claiming to be shooting live rounds. (In reality the danger is the opposite, thinking you are firing blanks when in actuality there are live rounds in the gun...like that movie incident where a producer was killed on set. )

What kills us is to name and claim things that are not true. (I'm not saying you are doing this, but we must define our terms).

So then we can draw near to God in our morning seeking/bible reading/meditation/prayers. Like collecting the DEW of the morning. And that is both good and necessary. But compared to the kingdom walk in the Spirit, we are firing blanks still. Jesus said that the LEAST in the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist. And John was VERY zealous in his seeking. I'm sure a LOT more zealous than those who gather the morning dew in their devotions. So we have to understand the scale of the gospel.

There's dew but there's also the rain that falls from heaven. That is something that we can experience in a revival, whether personal or corporate. And even here I'm not talking about the outward signs and wonders that are produced by this...but the LIFE, the eternal life that is experienced by those who are translated into the kingdom realm to walk as Jesus walked.

To be present with the Lord means we are walking in the Spirit (not physically dead as the spiritually dead attest). To be present with the Lord means we are WHERE He is...in the abode of heaven. Holiness is about location, location, location. The real estate is the field that contains the treasure. We buy the field as we surrender our own lives...with its devotions and seekings...in order to be fully possessed of Christ. I say that with meaning...being possessed. They who BELONG to Christ have been crucified...no longer walking by a human standard at all...but a divine one. People claim they have all these things as if it was all taking place in an imaginary way. These think of spiritual things in terms of the imagination...naming and claiming things that aren't true of themselves. It is no wonder that Jesus will reject so many on that day. (Our Western privilege, with its underlying arrogance, has caused multitudes to claim to be rich even in their wretched state.)

God tested the faith of the Israelites in the wilderness...which they failed. But we are failing the exact same way they did. We are NOT entering into the kingdom realm, instead claiming that an initial gift of grace is sufficient for our version of salvation. But who is seeking the standard of God? Are we born from above to be smug with one step into the race? Or will we be like Caleb and Joshua who defied the status quo and trusted in God to do the impossible?

When the Son of Man returns will He find Faith on the Earth?

That's not to disparage the lower walk. It's just that we need to not esteem ourselves higher than we ought to...and rather fear the Lord in humility even as we thank Him for what we are clearly not understanding fully yet.

And yet "shooting blanks" and "imaginary" definitely are disparaging terms. Are we to take it that you are shooting blanks from your own imagination at the moment since you are not walking in the Spirit the way you were those two times? Fair question, I'm not trying to be funny.

Putting on Christ and walking in the Spirit are instructions and admonitions to everyone in the body of Christ. And Jesus said His commands are not burdensome. These things are not far away or out of reach for anyone who is born again and has the Holy Spirit. Or perhaps the baptism in the Holy Spirit is needed as well, at least for a stronger walk. But people need at least to be maturing in order to learn how to walk in the Spirit. If someone is in a situation that tempts them in the flesh in some way, when they simply make a decision to yield to Christ in them instead of yielding to their flesh, they are in the spirit. Sitting and reading your bible 'prayerfully' is being in the spirit. Praying itself is being in the spirit, in varying degrees, if our heart is praying and not just our mouth. And it does seem there are varying ways or depths of being and walking in the Spirit. You can be in the spirit while functioning normally in this world and at the other end of the scale you can also be in the spirit to a depth that kind of takes you out of this world to the point of the body being inert and not functioning here.

Those blessed times when a believer is in the Spirit and unable to function in this world are not meant to be permanent until after death for most of us I believe (Enoch and Elijah being exceptions). I consider those to be just "tastes of the powers of the world to come" that scripture talks about. Like Paul going to the third heaven. He got to taste that, in the will of the Lord, but didn't remain there. (I'm guessing it was both to reward and to strengthen and encourage him since his life was on the line for the sake of the gospel every day.) As far as I can tell, those who are suffering more for the Lord seem to experience more of Him too. But I can't say what your experiences were or whether you are understanding them correctly......we can experience things in the Lord without fully understanding them.

Just plunking these thoughts on the table......don't doubt for a minute that I need more understanding, but up to now this whole subject doesn't seem cut and dried to me.

 

[Episkopos]

And yet "shooting blanks" and "imaginary" definitely are disparaging terms. Are we to take it that you are shooting blanks from your own imagination at the moment since you are not walking in the Spirit the way you were those two times? Fair question, I'm not trying to be funny.

Only if you are still claiming to be walking in the Spirit when you are not. Running out of bullets causes most people to put the gun down. But in today's religious environment people are conditioned to pretend they are firing real bullets while unloaded. I'm using a kind of imagery that is not described directly in the bible (like oil for lamps rather than bullets for guns) since the depth of indoctrination is that bad.

Putting on Christ and walking in the Spirit are instructions and admonitions to everyone in the body of Christ. And Jesus said His commands are not burdensome. These things are not far away or out of reach for anyone who is born again and has the Holy Spirit.

God is near. but we are combating other obstacles in the modern churches. On the social front we are spoiled and rich...used to commercials vying for our attention and being catered to in more ways than we can count. We have no needs, just desires. So we are rich. That HAS to be factored in...since Jesus wanted His gospel to be preached to the poor...not the rich. Then there is the religious environment. The deep fake of Reformist theology has made everyone to be sinful saints. It's play time, pretend time, name and claim it time.

Or perhaps the baptism in the Holy Spirit is needed as well, at least for a stronger walk. But people need at least to be maturing in order to learn how to walk in the Spirit.

Actually we are to learn how to remain in the Spirit. But since no one has the experience of even getting there..or rather so few as to be negligible, there is no ministry in that regard. You can see how the ego reacts to an actual ministry by how people respond to my call to seek the Lord while He may be found. It's like herding cats...it's like calling out to the naked emperor that he needs to get dressed.

If someone is in a situation that tempts them in the flesh in some way, when they simply make a decision to yield to Christ in them instead of yielding to their flesh, they are in the spirit.

False. There is a BIG decision and there are many smaller decisions. Entrance into the kingdom walk negates the need for the smaller decisions. One is possessed of Christ...or one is free to make one's own way. Either as a follower of Christ or else as one who is dead in Christ. I am NOT against following Christ at all. I encourage any kind of following...from whatever distance one feels comfortable with. BUT, to claim that one is abiding in Christ when one isn't is bearing a false witness. Basically lying. And there is a tremendous judgment against that...there are so many warnings...but smug people have no fear of God.

Sitting and reading your bible 'prayerfully' is being in the spirit.

False. Wrong level. Muslims can also pray...all the religions do this. And God is not against this. It's the lack of humility He hates. God gives grace to the HUMBLE. So then people of other religions who are humble are far ahead of Christians who lie about their true state. God's wisdom is beyond the reach of religious enthusiasts even if their beliefs are "correct." There is a hard judgment against those who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Praying itself is being in the spirit, in varying degrees, if our heart is praying and not just our mouth.

No. Any effort we make comes from us. Do you see any difference between swimming (effort) and being in a boat? God's wisdom confounds the religious ones. You can't fly by any human effort...but the law of flight causes people to defy gravity by simply abiding in an aircraft. Likewise those who are IN Christ don't sin..they are in a heavenly place. In Him is no sin.

And it does seem there are varying ways or depths of being and walking in the Spirit.

True. But even at the lowest level (the least in the kingdom) there is no sin there. The lowest level is still a place of rest...divine love, peace, joy...although no spiritual faculties are being experienced....not seeing or hearing...just perceiving. A deeper level of the Spirit is to see light...the divine light. It is to see as Jesus saw...with the light of His love emanating from the eyes. All who see such a person can be said to be encountering Christ.

You can be in the spirit while functioning normally in this world and at the other end of the scale you can also be in the spirit to a depth that kind of takes you out of this world to the point of the body being inert and not functioning here.

When I walked in the Spirit the second time...I also worked at a job. Much of my time was spent speaking to people about the kingdom...yet my work never lacked. I was there to bring people to Christ....and I did so. My dreams were prophetic...my speech always in the love of God.

Those blessed times when a believer is in the Spirit and unable to function in this world are not meant to be permanent until after death for most of us I believe (Enoch and Elijah being exceptions). I consider those to be just "tastes of the powers of the world to come" that scripture talks about. Like Paul going to the third heaven.

That is different. A visit is not the same as taking up residence. When you visit someone do you claim to live there? There is a higher place than Zion, where we are called to walk IN Christ and WITH God,. ...and that is ....the throne room of God.

He got to taste that, in the will of the Lord, but didn't remain there. (I'm guessing it was both to reward and to strengthen and encourage him since his life was on the line for the sake of the gospel every day.) As far as I can tell, those who are suffering more for the Lord seem to experience more of Him too. But I can't say what your experiences were or whether you are understanding them correctly......we can experience things in the Lord without fully understanding them.

Just plunking these thoughts on the table......don't doubt for a minute that I need more understanding, but up to now this whole subject doesn't seem cut and dried to me.

I once also visited the upper place...as I was praying in my bed. And I wasn't in the Spirit at the time. I was just very focused in my prayer. I was taken up to the throne room where there was someone standing next to another person seated on a single throne. I felt like I was interrupting something. I was fearful and had my face down on the ground. It was a very big room. I was asked what I wanted. I asked for the soul of my room-mate to be saved. After a pause...the voice said, It shall be as you have asked. Two years later that man became a believer, and then a pastor. (That was because the system got him.)

 

[Ritajanice]

A visit is not the same as taking up residence.

Amen!!!..spot on..In Jesus Name!!..

 

[Hepzibah]

A deeper level of the Spirit is to see light...the divine light. It is to see as Jesus saw...

Yes. The early church called it the heavenly vision as at the Transfiguration.

Epi, when I was out of the Spirit and really feeling desperate, I read William Booth on the subject (can't remember which one) and he said that it can be regained when one does the same as when one first enters in and just believe it has occurred. The witness will follow maybe a day or two later.

Later when studying the ECF's they said that once Enlightened or having entered into His rest, the blessing of Theosis will occur at God's will - whenever. That really took the pressure off me as I waited. The ECF's taught that it could be lost and regained.