Sabbath

[Mungo]

"You are still trying to split the Law into two parts. It was not. It was one. They were all God’s laws to the Jews. And they were a mixture of what were referred to variously as commandments, ordinances and statutes, all mixed up. They were not neatly separated."

It is in two parts. You remember, how you stated that "God's Eternal Law was before the Old Covenant," as I stated as well? God's Eternal Law, was written in stone. The 10 Commandments, His perfect law, IS His Eternal Law. This Law, remains in Heaven, and shall be obeyed throughout eternity. God did give certain laws to the Jews, but just because He gave them the 10 Commandments, doesn't mean this was only for the Jews. Can you search the scriptures, and find all 10 Commandments explicitly stated before written down in stone? Can you find "Thou shalt not steal" or "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain"? But we know these things are wrong to do, and are contained within God's 10 Commandments.

Sorry but your analysis is wrong.

Yes, the Eternal Law existed before God gave it to the Jews, but that does not mean that when God gave the Law to the Jews he gave them two sets of laws.

God gave them one Law. It included his Eternal moral law, ceremonial laws, decrees, statutes etc. When a country revises it’s constitutions, or implements a new one it will incorporate laws from a previous one plus new ones. That does not mean the country has two sets of laws. The origin of the laws does not stop there being one law for that country. People just refer to the Law, just as the Jews referred to the Law, meaning all of it. There are more (Eternal) moral laws than are in the 10 Commandments, for example sodomy, fraud and fornication.

Jesus refers to Moses giving the law:
“Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother” (Mt 7:10) – one of the Ten Commandments.
Also
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?” (Jn 7:19)
Jesus here refers to one of the 10 Commandments as the law given by Moses.

"And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses" (1Kg 2:3).
God’s commandments are written in the book of Moses.

You are trying to make a distinction between God’s Laws and Moses’ Laws, between the 10 Commandments and other of God’s commandments that are not made in scripture.


Another indication that the Sabbath Day is not part of the Eternal Law is given in Mt 12;5:
“Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?”
If the Sabbath were an Eternal moral law the priests could not be blameless.

Before Moses re-listed the Ten Commandments in Deut 5 referred to them as statutes and judgements:
“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day” (vs 1)

Moreover in verse 2&3 (remember this is before he lists the !0 Commandments) Moses says:

The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

If God did not make this covenant with the 10 Commandments with their forefather how could Noah, Abraham etc. know about the Sabbath day?

However, you can find the Creator, resting the Sabbath Day in creation week. Now, there being more evidence that this commandment was kept in Genesis, how can we assume this commandment was never kept until Israel?

God did not rest on the Sabbath Day. He rested on the 7th day – that particular 7th day. There is no record that he rested every 7th day or that he called it the Sabbath Day. That is an invention of Sabbatarians. There is no record that he asked anyone to rest every 7th day before he gave those instructions to Moses.

"Firstly, the Jews did not divide the Law up into two parts. It was ONE"

That's not what Leviticus 23:23-38 says. In Leviticus 23:37, Moses says "These are the feasts..." When explaining the 5 annual sabbaths they were to keep. Then Moses says in verse 38, that those annual sabbaths are "besides the Sabbaths of the Lord". So yes, the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, was different, than the yearly sabbaths Israel was to keep. The "Sabbath of the Lord thy God" points back to creation week. It points back to the Creator. The annual sabbaths pointed forward, to the cross.

Leviticus 23 is not dividing up the Law. It is explaining and expanding it.

Note that chapter 23 of Leviticus is introduced as concerning “the feasts of the Lord” (vs 2 & 4). All the feasts are feasts of the Lord

“Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.” (vs 39).

There were many Sabbaths – all feasts of the Lord.

"Thirdly James does not mention the Ten Commandments or call them the “law of liberty”. How you arrive at that I cannot imagine."

James says the Royal Law according to scripture is "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself". Jesus also says this is one of the two great commandments on which the law and the prophets hang. But what's it mean to love thy neighbor as thyself? Romans 13:9 - [sup] [/sup]For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself is a brief comprehension of the COMMANDMENTS. The 10 commandments - Thou shalt not commit adultary, nor steal, nor kill, nor covet, nor bear false witness - and if there is ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is comprehended as mainly "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself".
James 2:8,10,11,12 - If ye fulful the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said Do not commit adultery (A commandment), said also, Do not kill (Another Commandment). Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James calls the Royal Law, the 10 commandments, the LAW OF LIBERTY.

James does not call the 10 Commandments the Royal Law. He calls “love they neighbour as thyself” the “Royal Law – and that is from Leviticus 19 not the 10 Commandments.

"You will find all the other commandments clearly “restated” in the New Testament...But nowhere in the NT are we instructed to keep the Sabbath."

Yes, you will, in Hebrews 4:4-9. It says God spake of the seventh day on this wise. It then reminds us, of how God kept the seventh day Sabbath.

Sorry, but that is an invention. The word Sabbath is not used. God rested on the seventh day of creation. Nowhere does it say that day was called a Sabbath day.

Interestingly the KJV which you uses does not use the word sabbath in Heb 4 at all!!!!!

Other translations only use it in Heb 4:9, and then only as Sabbath rest not Sabbath day

It also says "he limiteth a certain day." Then verse 8 asks, "For if Jesus had given them rest, wouldn't he not afterward have spoken of another day." All Christians I come across will openly declare, that YES Jesus DOES in fact give us rest. So then, would he not have afterward spoken of another day? No person, can find Jesus teaching a Sunday Sabbath, or an "everyday Sabbath". Jesus quite boldly taught His brethern how to keep the Sabbath correctly. He also kept the Sabbath. By His life's perfect example, NEVER did he indicate in the Sabbath being done away with. Remember not a jot or tittle would change. And also, in Matthew 24:20 Jesus says pray that you won't have to take flight on the sabbath DAY. So, back to Hebrews, in verse 9 says there REMAINETH (which gives an indication that there is STILL IN PLACE) a rest to the people of God.

You misconstrue this possibly because the syntax of the KJV is difficult to follow.

He is making the point that the people of the OT did not enter his rest because of unbelief (vs 2).

But he says (vs 3) “we which have believed do enter into rest”. Of course we do because Jesus promised “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest”, and I believe Jesus keeps his promises.

However this rest is not the final rest because we are still on this fallen earth. The final rest, the one yet to come is our rest with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in heaven.

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” (Rev 21:4).

It is that rest that Hebrews refers to in Heb 4:9

But let's look at the underlined word rest - In Strong's exhaustive Concordance, that word rest is originally the Greek word SABBATISMOS - which means, a keeping Sabbath. So yes, quite clearly, and boldly, specifically laying out the 7th Day, as the Day of rest, and laying out that it is LIMITED to a certain day, Paul then says there REMAINS (still in place) a SABBATH KEEPING REST to God's children.

It says nothing clearly and boldly.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
From a derivative of sabbaton; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) -- rest.


Thayer’s Greek Lexicon
1. a keeping sabbath.
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age

No translation that I have consulted (and I have looked at many) translate sabbatismos as a “keeping sabbath”.

The word sabbatismos does not come from sabbaton, but from sabbatiamoe (the former being neuter and the latter masculine). The English sabbath always comes from sabbaton. Sabbatismos is therefore a different kind of rest to the sabbath rest. It is the heavenly rest that we are all labouring to enter.

You still haven't replied to the scriptures I quoted about us no longer being under the law


"In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter." (Rom 7:6-6)

We are put to death to the Law

We are released from the Law


"Before faith came, we were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian." (Gal 3:23-25).

We are not under the Law


"When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well." (Heb 7:12)

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah." (Heb 8:7-8)

"When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing" (Heb 8:13)

"He takes away the first to establish the second" (Heb 10:9)

We are now living under the New Law of the New Covenant. This New Law is written on our hearts. Hebrews 8:8-10 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-33:

Remember:
“Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.” (Gal 3:10).

If you put yourself back under the law then you are putting yourself under a curse if you disobey even on part of the law.

 

[Raeneske]

"If the Sabbath were an Eternal moral law the priests could not be blameless."

That's like saying, If "thou shalt not kill" was an eternal law, those that were sent off to war to kill, would not be blameless. But is thou shalt not kill eternal? Of course it is.

"God did not rest on the Sabbath Day. He rested on the 7th day – that particular 7th day. There is no record that he rested every 7th day or that he called it the Sabbath Day. That is an invention of Sabbatarians. There is no record that he asked anyone to rest every 7th day before he gave those instructions to Moses"

You did not find for me not taking the Lord's name in vain, and stealing in the Old Testament before it was written in stone, like I asked. And yet, we know these are eternal Moral Commands. And my Bible says otherwise.

Exodus 20:11 - For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Genesis 2:2-3 - And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Seems like the Lord blessed the Sabbath Day – Which is the Seventh Day. See, God sanctified the Seventh Day, so what’s that mean?
Sanctify –

1. Set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.
2. Make legitimate or binding by religious sanction

So what does hallowed mean?
Hallow –

1. Honor as holy.
2. Make holy; consecrate.

Seems like God made the Seventh Day Holy, IN CREATION WEEK. The Sabbath Day was part of the Holy Commandments of God, the 10 Divine Precepts. Sorry, but saying 9/10 are the only “moral” commandments of God, is to be teaching “We may break one point”, and my Bible is clear about breaking one point.

“Leviticus 23 is not dividing up the Law. It is explaining and expanding it.”

Really? Find me the annual Sabbaths written in the 10 Commandment Law. Leviticus 23 divided it perfectly. Verses 23:23-37 explained all the Sabbaths, feast days towards the Lord. And then Verse 38 clearly divides the Sabbath up by saying “Besides the Sabbaths of the Lord thy God”. Those annual feast days, were to be kept besides the Sabbaths of the Lord thy God – besides the 7[sup]th[/sup] day Sabbath. So yes, Leviticus does make that distinction between the Sabbaths.

“You misconstrue this possibly because the syntax of the KJV is difficult to follow.”

Excuse me, but I think this is clear, let me post that it DOES say Sabbatismos for you.

“Strong's G4520 – sabbatismos”

1. a keeping Sabbath

I don’t think I “misconstrue” at all. Hebrews 4:4, God spake on the Seventh Day of this wise. Hebrews 4:8 – If Jesus had given them rest, wouldn’t he have also spoken of another day? Hebrews 4:9 – There remaineth therefore a “Sabbatismos” to the people of God.

“You still haven't replied to the scriptures I quoted about us no longer being under the law”

As for being under the law – you are only under it when you break it (and I answered this in one of my previous posts actually). To be under the law, means to be under the curse of the law. Daniel 9:11 shows that when you BREAK IT, THAT’S when the curse is poured out upon you. Christ redeemed you from the curse (Galatians 3:13), not from being obedient. What is the curse of the law? DEATH! For the wages of sin (transgressing the Law of God) is death. That’s what Christ redeemed us from. When he died, he became the curse for us, the curse that was supposed to be poured out upon us. So, since we are not under the curse of the law, can you go and murder your neighbor, or commit adultery plainly, without repentance, and gain heaven? Galatians 3:10 says you are CURSED if you DO NOT do these things, it does not say you are cursed if you do them. The law is not of faith, but the man that does them shall LIVE. Galatians 4:21 – Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, Do you not hear the law? See, truly, you are only under the law, when you BREAK IT, NOT when you keep it. Because not the HEARERS OF THE LAW are just before God, but DOERS of the Law. Doing the Law does not put you under it. But breaking it does!
If you keep Gods commandments and believe in Jesus you are one of His Saints (rev 14:12), and those that keep the commandments can eat from the tree of life (rev 22:14).

 

[Mungo]

"If the Sabbath were an Eternal moral law the priests could not be blameless."

That's like saying, If "thou shalt not kill" was an eternal law, those that were sent off to war to kill, would not be blameless. But is thou shalt not kill eternal? Of course it is.

It is generally agreed that the correct translation is “thou shalt not murder”. No-one is sent off to war to murder.

"God did not rest on the Sabbath Day. He rested on the 7th day – that particular 7th day. There is no record that he rested every 7th day or that he called it the Sabbath Day. That is an invention of Sabbatarians. There is no record that he asked anyone to rest every 7th day before he gave those instructions to Moses"

You did not find for me not taking the Lord's name in vain, and stealing in the Old Testament before it was written in stone, like I asked. And yet, we know these are eternal Moral Commands.

But we can find it in the NT
in Eph 4:29
No foul language should come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for needed edification, that it may impart grace to those who hear.

and inMt 5:33-37
“Again you have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Do not take a false oath, but make good to the Lord all that you vow.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all; not by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Do not swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. Let your ‘Yes’ mean ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ mean ‘No.’ Anything more is from the evil one.

We can find stealing in the NT as well
in Eph 4:28
The thief must no longer steal, but rather labour, doing honest work with his (own) hands

But we don’t find a Sabbath keeping command in the NT

And my Bible says otherwise.

Exodus 20:11 - For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Genesis 2:2-3 - And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Seems like the Lord blessed the Sabbath Day – Which is the Seventh Day. See, God sanctified the Seventh Day, so what’s that mean?
Sanctify –

1. Set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.
   
2. Make legitimate or binding by religious sanction

So what does hallowed mean?
Hallow –

1. Honor as holy.
   
2. Make holy; consecrate.

Seems like God made the Seventh Day Holy, IN CREATION WEEK. The Sabbath Day was part of the Holy Commandments of God, the 10 Divine Precepts. Sorry, but saying 9/10 are the only “moral” commandments of God, is to be teaching “We may break one point”, and my Bible is clear about breaking one point.

When did God bless the seventh day of creation? Moses is writing about something that happened 2500 years previously (or more), when God had made the seventh day of the week holy and set apart for the Jews. There is nothing to indicate that it was set apart at the time of creation.

When he told Adam to subdue the earth and have dominion over it he didn’t mention keeping the seventh day Sabbath.

When he told Adam ““Cursed be the ground because of you! In toil shall you eat its yield all the days of your life. Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to you, as you eat of the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face shall you get bread to eat” he didn’t mention resting on the Sabbath day.

It became holy when God set it apart for the Jews as a sign of their Covenant.

I’ve made this point before and you ignored it, but the placing of the Sabbath command in the Ten Commandments was because it was a sign of their covenant. It was important they were constantly reminded of the Covenant.

But it is not our Covenant. It is not our sign.

Take this from Ez 20:10-20
"So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. I gave them my statutes and showed them my ordinances, by whose observance man shall live. Moreover I gave them my sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I the Lord sanctify them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness; they did not walk in my statutes but rejected my ordinances, by whose observance man shall live; and my sabbaths they greatly profaned. "Then I thought I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them. But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out. Moreover I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands, because they rejected my ordinances and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols. Nevertheless my eye spared them, and I did not destroy them or make a full end of them in the wilderness. "And I said to their children in the wilderness, Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their ordinances, nor defile yourselves with their idols. I the Lord am your God; walk in my statutes, and be careful to observe my ordinances, and hallow my sabbaths that they may be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I the Lord am your God."

God is clearly saying he gave his Sabbaths to the Jews as sign between him and them. Not a sign between God and all mankind. It was for the Jews only, not for us.

“Leviticus 23 is not dividing up the Law. It is explaining and expanding it.”

Really? Find me the annual Sabbaths written in the 10 Commandment Law. Leviticus 23 divided it perfectly. Verses 23:23-37 explained all the Sabbaths, feast days towards the Lord. And then Verse 38 clearly divides the Sabbath up by saying “Besides the Sabbaths of the Lord thy God”. Those annual feast days, were to be kept besides the Sabbaths of the Lord thy God – besides the 7[sup]th[/sup] day Sabbath. So yes, Leviticus does make that distinction between the Sabbaths.

The distinction is because they were different occasions as Leviticus makes clear, not because they were different in kind.

They were all abolished
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. (Col 2:16-17).

Festival = yearly
New moon= monthly
Sabbath = weekly Sabbath
They were all shadows of what is fulfilled in Christ.

“You misconstrue this possibly because the syntax of the KJV is difficult to follow.”

Excuse me, but I think this is clear, let me post that it DOES say Sabbatismos for you.

“Strong's G4520 – sabbatismos”

1. a keeping Sabbath

I don’t think I “misconstrue” at all. Hebrews 4:4, God spake on the Seventh Day of this wise. Hebrews 4:8 – If Jesus had given them rest, wouldn’t he have also spoken of another day? Hebrews 4:9 – There remaineth therefore a “Sabbatismos” to the people of God.

As you have ignored all I said on this I shall repeat it.

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
From a derivative of sabbaton; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) -- rest.


Thayer’s Greek Lexicon
1. a keeping sabbath.
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age

No translation that I have consulted (and I have looked at many) translate sabbatismos as a “keeping sabbath”.

The word sabbatismos does not come from sabbaton, but from sabbatiamoe (the former being neuter and the latter masculine). The English sabbath always comes from sabbaton. Sabbatismos is therefore a different kind of rest to the sabbath rest. It is the heavenly rest that we are all labouring to enter.

“You still haven't replied to the scriptures I quoted about us no longer being under the law”

As for being under the law – you are only under it when you break it (and I answered this in one of my previous posts actually). To be under the law, means to be under the curse of the law. Daniel 9:11 shows that when you BREAK IT, THAT’S when the curse is poured out upon you. Christ redeemed you from the curse (Galatians 3:13), not from being obedient. What is the curse of the law? DEATH! For the wages of sin (transgressing the Law of God) is death. That’s what Christ redeemed us from. When he died, he became the curse for us, the curse that was supposed to be poured out upon us. So, since we are not under the curse of the law, can you go and murder your neighbor, or commit adultery plainly, without repentance, and gain heaven? Galatians 3:10 says you are CURSED if you DO NOT do these things, it does not say you are cursed if you do them. The law is not of faith, but the man that does them shall LIVE. Galatians 4:21 – Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, Do you not hear the law? See, truly, you are only under the law, when you BREAK IT, NOT when you keep it. Because not the HEARERS OF THE LAW are just before God, but DOERS of the Law. Doing the Law does not put you under it. But breaking it does!
If you keep Gods commandments and believe in Jesus you are one of His Saints (rev 14:12), and those that keep the commandments can eat from the tree of life (rev 22:14).

The idea that the law doesn’t apply to me unless I break it and then it does apply to me is illogical.

I’ve never heard such an illogical argument. We are all under laws, the laws of God, the laws of the country we live in, the “laws” (i.e. rules) of this forum.

We cannot break a law that is not applicable to us.


All the laws that God gave to Moses are part of the Old Covenant. Exodus 20-23 is a list of commandments. All are part of the Law of the Covenant.

In Ex 24 the Covenant is ratified
When Moses came to the people and related all the words and ordinances of the Lord, they all answered with one voice, “We will do everything that the Lord has told us.” Moses then wrote down all the words of the Lord and, rising early the next day, he erected at the foot of the mountain an altar and twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. Then, having sent certain young men of the Israelites to offer holocausts and sacrifice young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord, Moses took half of the blood and put it in large bowls; the other half he splashed on the altar. Taking the book of the covenant, he read it aloud to the people, who answered, “All that the Lord has said, we will heed and do.” Then he took the blood and sprinkled it on the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words of his.”

That is everything that was listed in Ex 20-23. It was all one law and it was the Old Covenant Law. We are under the New Covenant.

The New Covenant has it’s laws but Sabbath keeping is not one of them.


I note that you have not replied to the bulk of the first part of my previous post. Replying to just one tiny part is not replying to all the points I made,

Just to remind you, here it the rest of it.



Yes, the Eternal Law existed before God gave it to the Jews, but that does not mean that when God gave the Law to the Jews he gave them two sets of laws.

God gave them one Law. It included his Eternal moral law, ceremonial laws, decrees, statutes etc. When a country revises it’s constitutions, or implements a new one it will incorporate laws from a previous one plus new ones. That does not mean the country has two sets of laws. The origin of the laws does not stop there being one law for that country. People just refer to the Law, just as the Jews referred to the Law, meaning all of it. There are more (Eternal) moral laws than are in the 10 Commandments, for example sodomy, fraud and fornication.

Jesus refers to Moses giving the law:
“Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother” (Mt 7:10) – one of the Ten Commandments.
Also
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?” (Jn 7:19)
Jesus here refers to one of the 10 Commandments as the law given by Moses.

"And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses" (1Kg 2:3).
God’s commandments are written in the book of Moses.

You are trying to make a distinction between God’s Laws and Moses’ Laws, between the 10 Commandments and other of God’s commandments that are not made in scripture.


Before Moses re-listed the Ten Commandments in Deut 5 referred to them as statutes and judgements:
“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day” (vs 1)

Moreover in verse 2&3 (remember this is before he lists the !0 Commandments) Moses says:

The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

If God did not make this covenant with the 10 Commandments with their forefathers how could Noah, Abraham etc. know about the Sabbath day?

 

[Raeneske]

"But we can find it in the NT"

That's not what I said. I said, find those Moral Laws before Sinai in the OT.

But let's look at what you said. You have found it in the NT, yet not where I asked. And I asked you to find it before Sinai. And you could not. Am I thus to conclude that such commandments are not eternal? Since, by following your reasoning, am I thus to conclude "This commandment is not eternal"? Since you thoroughly believe in the NT it is not stated (I find it odd though, that when God spake according to the seventh day, and that Jesus had given them rest wouldn't he have spoken of another day - and the fact that there REMAINETH a rest to the people of God, doesn't mean the day at all, according to you), how can you believe the others were part of the eternal Moral Law? You can find in the Old and New Covenant all the laws which you spake. But I can find before the Old Covenant the Sabbath being set apart for Holy use, in the Old Covenant, and in the New Covenant, and yet, I am not to doubt the eternal realities of the other commandments. What did Jesus mean, "pray ye that your flight be not in winter, nor on the sabbath DAY" (Matthew 24:20)?

And there is more evidence God set apart the Seventh Day for Holy use in GENESIS.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:2, 3 KJV)

God BLESSED the Seventh Day, and SANCTIFIED IT - God blessed the 7th Day and Set it apart for Holy use in GENESIS. Sanctify means to set apart for Holy Use, so yes, God DID make it holy and bless it in Creation Week.

"When he told Adam..."

Did he also tell Adam thou shalt not kill? Did he say "Thoushalt not bear false witness"? Did he say "Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain"? And yes these are Commandments. Are any of those written for specifically Adam?

"A sign for the Jews"

It's not just a sign for the Jews. It was a sign for ALL of Israel. There were many people that became Israelites, coming into their faith. When Israel people left Egypt, people joined along. And as usual, throughout the years, many people converted and became part of Israel. This is why God is no respector of persons. This is why there is neither "Jew nor Greek". When you worship the God of Israel, there is a sign that proves you Worship Him.

We ARE Israel. Those of Abraham's seed are of Israel. But according to my Bible :

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:26-29 KJV)

We who are of Christ, are now the children of Abraham. Who are Abraham's children? Israel!

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28, 29 KJV)

He is NOT a jew which is one outwardly, one by "nature" born and circumcized. Who then is a Jew? A Jew, is one that is shown inwardly, where the heart is circumcized, in the Spirit. Like when God said he would put His law in our HEARTS.

What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. (Mark 12:9 KJV)

In speaking of the Vineyard, and the Parable against the Jews, Jesus shows that he will give the vineyard to others. What is the Vineyard.

For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. (Isaiah 5:7 KJV)

The vineyard of the Lord of Hosts is Israel. So God is giving Israel, to US. We are now Israel.

And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. (Genesis 35:10 KJV)

Like Jacob of old, after his sincrere repentance, his name was no more Jacob, but Israel. Christians today, after sincere repentance, are likewise following the same manner. We become Israel.

And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God. (Hosea 2:23 KJV)

As prophecied, we which were not Israel are now His people, and He is now our God. So, we, Israel, still have the sign between us, that He is our Creator. The Seventh Day Sabbath, a memorial to creation week, a perpetual sign between His children.

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. (Galatians 4:21-31 KJV)

We are the children of Promise, we are Abraham's seed, though we be of Christ's seed. That born of the bondwoman was Israel, but those born of the free, are STILL of Abraham. We became grafted into God's chosen Israel.

As for being under the law, I will try it this way.

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. (Deuteronomy 11:26-28 KJV)

A blessing for obediance, a curse for disobediance. To be under the law, means to be under the curse of the law. What's the curse? Death.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23 KJV)

We are cursed with death, when we sin against that Law. When we sin, that puts us under the law (under the curse of the law). To be obediant does not mean to be "under the law". So, did Christ redeem us from ever having to keep the 10 Commandments, or yet from the curse?

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: (Galatians 3:13 KJV)

Christ became this curse for us. Christ died the death we should've died. Christ freed us from the curse so we are no longer "under the law" which means to be under the curse of the law. We are still required to be obediant to the Decalogue.

Distinctions Made in the Word:

Moses law contained in ordiances (A) Called "Law of Moses" Luke 2:22

God's Law, Royal Law (B): Called "The law of the Lord" Isaiah 5:24

(A) : Called "Law contained in ordinances" Ephesians 2:15

(B) : Called "The royal law" James 2:8

(A) : Written by Moses in a book. 2Chronicals 35:12

(B) : Written by God in stone. Exodus 31:18; 32:16

(A) : Placed beside the Ark. Deuteronomy 31:26

(B) : Placed inside the ark. Exodus 40:20

(A) : Ended at the cross. Ephesians 2:15

(B) : Will stand forever. Luke 16:17

(A) : Added because of sin. Galatians 3:19

(B) : Points out sin. Romans 7:7; 3:20

(A) : Contrary to us, against us. Colossians 2:14-16

(B) : Not grievous. 1John 5:3

(A) : Carnal. Hebrews 7:16

(B) : Spiritual. Romans 7:14

(A) : Made nothing perfect. Hebrews 7:19

(B) : Perfect. Psalm 19:7

(A) : Judges no one. Colossians 2:14-16

(B) : Judges all people. James 2:10-12

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12 KJV)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

 

[Mungo]

Raeneske,

You are ignoring most of the points I make and you are saying nothing new that I have not covered in one way or another before.

I'm not going round and round in circles, so I will leave this thread.

Thank you for an interesting discussion

God bless

Mungo

 

[Axehead]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he
rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had
rested from all his work which God created and made.

Well, you say that the Sabbath is not Mosaic and it is not under the system of laws that God gave to the Jews, but it is something that God founded in the very beginning. Does your Bible say that God founded the Sabbath for Himself here, or for man? Does your Bible say that man rested or that God rested?

There is no record of God giving Adam a commandment to rest on the seventh day. All we are told is that God rested. There is no record or statement at all that God revealed this to Adam at that time.

In Exodus 31:14, we find this:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall be called a bad Christian.

Is that what it said??? No, that is not what it said.

What does it say?

Ye shall be put to death!

Exo 31:14-17 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Who does the Bible say that God is talking to? The Children of Israel? That is correct.

Is this a covenant forever with the Jews or the Gentiles?

Yes, with the Jews and there is no passing away of this covenant. (If you are a Jew and take the Torah, seriously)

Does the Bible say that it is a sign between God and the nation of Israel, forever? Yes.

In other words there is not going to be a future dispensation that nullifies Sabbath Keeping for the nation of Israel.

That means today in Israel and today in New York, the Jews should be keeping the Sabbath holy. It is their obligation to do so. And if they do work sometime after sundown on Friday night, then the other Jews according to God should pick up bricks and come down and bash their brains out. That is the Word of God! If they do not do that, then they are in violation of the Word of God. That is a commandment to the nation of Israel that has not passed away, has not changed.

Some people would like to make the penalty pass away but keep the law. But think hard about this. Do you have a law if you have no penalty? No! You cannot have a law without a penalty. The very nature of law is that it comes with a penalty.

I hear people dividing the law in what is referred to as the “moral commandments” and the “ceremonial commandments”. And they tell us that the ceremonial part has passed away but the moral part is not and they try to make Sabbath Keeping part of the “moral” part which has remained but the penalty part of it we are no longer under. Christ is supposed to have lifted that.

So they say that when Christ died, we are no longer punished for keeping the Sabbath but we are suppose to keep it, regardless. What?

I submit unto you that when God gave this law and it was perpetual, the penalty was part of it and the penalty cannot pass away unless the law passes away. And for the nation of Israel, the law of Sabbath keeping cannot pass away.

Looking at Exodus 31:14 again, there are those that try to tell us that the Sabbath was kept prior to this. They say that when God says to “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy”, that what it means is that, they have been keeping it and to remember what I told you. Keep remembering what your duty is, to keep the Sabbath and keep on doing what you know you should be doing.

That is a bit stretching the text there in Exodus 20:8.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

If you take the whole book of Genesis, the Bible talks about Abraham being a righteous man and it describes in detail, going to places and worshipping. It describes in detail, time and again, his offering of sacrifices and his falling down and praying and it talked of his righteousness, but it never mentioned him keeping the Sabbath. That is very strange. The Bible mentions his tithing, but it never mentions his Sabbath keeping. Then we have Isaac, who was also a righteous man and no mention of the Sabbath. Then we have Jacob and all his trials that he goes through with God and God teaching him and yet no mention of the Sabbath or Sabbath keeping. Then we have the 12 sons of Jacob and we have their devotion to God and Joseph going down to Egypt, and the Bible makes a big point of Joseph’s faithfulness to God. Down in Egypt, he worships God, he prays and they try to find some fault in him and yet, no mention of him ever keeping the Sabbath.

And then we come to Moses and we see Moses fleeing Egypt and then coming back but yet again no mention of Moses keeping the Sabbath. You find Moses dealing with the Jews for over a year and plagues coming but you find no mention of them ever keeping the Sabbath. And then when Moses tells Pharoah that he wants to take the people and go 3 days journey and worship, he never says that they want to go keep the Sabbath. Moses never said that they want to keep the Sabbath holy unto God. If they kept the Sabbath, this would be the place to say it!

There is a conspicuous absence of any Patriarch keeping the Sabbath until Moses receives it as a commandment from God. This is irrefutable from the KJV Bible and even other Bibles.

So, to tell us that God instituted Sabbath Keeping from the book of Genesis is absolutely false! He instituted nothing of the kind. The Bible tells us that He rested. That was His business! And when He got ready to reveal it, He revealed it to the nation of Israel and it was a sign between Him and the nation of Israel. Not between anyone else. A sign of a covenant. A covenant that he made with the nation of Israel. He never made that covenant with the nations of Gentiles. And the Gentiles have not entered into that covenant. The covenant that the Gentiles have entered into is the covenant that God made with Abraham to bless the world through his seed. Abraham was a Gentile not a Jew, not an Israelite and he did not keep the Sabbath.

When God made a covenant with the nation of Israel, He made it with the Jews, with the Israelites, not with Abraham and the Bible never speaks of us, the Church, as being the seed of Jacob (Israel) or the seed of Isaac. It speaks of us being the seed of Abraham by faith and that has nothing to do with the nation of Israel. We are the seed of a Gentile that did not keep the Sabbath, not the seed of an Israelite or a Jew who was commanded to keep the Sabbath. This is powerful!! This is extremely significant.

Now what is the first mention of Sabbath keeping in Exodus 20:8? Let’s look at it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not
do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them
is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,
and hallowed it.

Now God commands this to the Jews and says not their menservants, thy maidservants and not their cattle, in other words, on the Sabbath, they could not hitch up their buggy and go to worship. The cows and horses couldn’t work. On the Sabbath they could not kindle a fire or carry any kind of load.

In Nehemiah 9:13 we have an interesting statement about the Sabbath.

Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Now verse 14 is the key: Look at this very closely.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

What did Moses do?

When he came down on mount Sinai, he made known unto them the Holy Sabbath. Meaning they did not know about it before Moses knew about it.

So the Word of God tells us that this is when God made known unto the Children of Israel, the Jews, His Holy Sabbath. No one from Adam knew about the Sabbath or were ever commanded to observe it. How could they observe what they never knew about? And that is why we never see a record of Sabbath keeping before Moses.

God did not make known to them just one Sabbath. He made known to them many Sabbaths. And yet, most of the people today just keep one Sabbath, one weekly Sabbath.

One of the Sabbaths involved keeping 7 days of unleavened bread and another Sabbath that involved the 7th year and there was a Sabbath that involved the 7th month. And there were certain ways that the Sabbaths were to be kept in fastings and what they could eat and could not eat and the blowing of trumpets. And if you are going to keep a Sabbath you have to keep all of the Sabbaths. You can’t go and cut them in half and say, “Ok, God instituted this but I am going to observe part of it and I’m going to do it the way our church does it.” You are going to have to do it the way God commanded.

And then in Ezekiel 20:12, He says:
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifieth them.

Did the Word just say Sabbaths? Plural, right? So there are multiple Sabbath keepings.

We can talk about those, later.

Axehead

 

[Rex]

LOL in the language of the secular. This is just to weird I just finished googling sabbath keepers not more than a minute ago.
Refreshed the screen and wala, this thread is at the top of the page

God bless Axehead
Very nice

 

[Axehead]

LOL in the language of the secular. This is just to weird I just finished googling sabbath keepers not more than a minute ago.
Refreshed the screen and wala, this thread is at the top of the page

God bless Axehead
Very nice

That is amazing.

God bless you too, Rex.

 

[Raeneske]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he
rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had
rested from all his work which God created and made.

Well, you say that the Sabbath is not Mosaic and it is not under the system of laws that God gave to the Jews, but it is something that God founded in the very beginning. Does your Bible say that God founded the Sabbath for Himself here, or for man? Does your Bible say that man rested or that God rested?

There is no record of God giving Adam a commandment to rest on the seventh day. All we are told is that God rested. There is no record or statement at all that God revealed this to Adam at that time.

In Exodus 31:14, we find this:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall be called a bad Christian.

Is that what it said??? No, that is not what it said.

What does it say?

Ye shall be put to death!

Exo 31:14-17 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Who does the Bible say that God is talking to? The Children of Israel? That is correct.

Is this a covenant forever with the Jews or the Gentiles?

Yes, with the Jews and there is no passing away of this covenant. (If you are a Jew and take the Torah, seriously)

Does the Bible say that it is a sign between God and the nation of Israel, forever? Yes.

In other words there is not going to be a future dispensation that nullifies Sabbath Keeping for the nation of Israel.

That means today in Israel and today in New York, the Jews should be keeping the Sabbath holy. It is their obligation to do so. And if they do work sometime after sundown on Friday night, then the other Jews according to God should pick up bricks and come down and bash their brains out. That is the Word of God! If they do not do that, then they are in violation of the Word of God. That is a commandment to the nation of Israel that has not passed away, has not changed.

Some people would like to make the penalty pass away but keep the law. But think hard about this. Do you have a law if you have no penalty? No! You cannot have a law without a penalty. The very nature of law is that it comes with a penalty.

I hear people dividing the law in what is referred to as the “moral commandments” and the “ceremonial commandments”. And they tell us that the ceremonial part has passed away but the moral part is not and they try to make Sabbath Keeping part of the “moral” part which has remained but the penalty part of it we are no longer under. Christ is supposed to have lifted that.

So they say that when Christ died, we are no longer punished for keeping the Sabbath but we are suppose to keep it, regardless. What?

I submit unto you that when God gave this law and it was perpetual, the penalty was part of it and the penalty cannot pass away unless the law passes away. And for the nation of Israel, the law of Sabbath keeping cannot pass away.

Looking at Exodus 31:14 again, there are those that try to tell us that the Sabbath was kept prior to this. They say that when God says to “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy”, that what it means is that, they have been keeping it and to remember what I told you. Keep remembering what your duty is, to keep the Sabbath and keep on doing what you know you should be doing.

That is a bit stretching the text there in Exodus 20:8.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

If you take the whole book of Genesis, the Bible talks about Abraham being a righteous man and it describes in detail, going to places and worshipping. It describes in detail, time and again, his offering of sacrifices and his falling down and praying and it talked of his righteousness, but it never mentioned him keeping the Sabbath. That is very strange. The Bible mentions his tithing, but it never mentions his Sabbath keeping. Then we have Isaac, who was also a righteous man and no mention of the Sabbath. Then we have Jacob and all his trials that he goes through with God and God teaching him and yet no mention of the Sabbath or Sabbath keeping. Then we have the 12 sons of Jacob and we have their devotion to God and Joseph going down to Egypt, and the Bible makes a big point of Joseph’s faithfulness to God. Down in Egypt, he worships God, he prays and they try to find some fault in him and yet, no mention of him ever keeping the Sabbath.

And then we come to Moses and we see Moses fleeing Egypt and then coming back but yet again no mention of Moses keeping the Sabbath. You find Moses dealing with the Jews for over a year and plagues coming but you find no mention of them ever keeping the Sabbath. And then when Moses tells Pharoah that he wants to take the people and go 3 days journey and worship, he never says that they want to go keep the Sabbath. Moses never said that they want to keep the Sabbath holy unto God. If they kept the Sabbath, this would be the place to say it!

There is a conspicuous absence of any Patriarch keeping the Sabbath until Moses receives it as a commandment from God. This is irrefutable from the KJV Bible and even other Bibles.

So, to tell us that God instituted Sabbath Keeping from the book of Genesis is absolutely false! He instituted nothing of the kind. The Bible tells us that He rested. That was His business! And when He got ready to reveal it, He revealed it to the nation of Israel and it was a sign between Him and the nation of Israel. Not between anyone else. A sign of a covenant. A covenant that he made with the nation of Israel. He never made that covenant with the nations of Gentiles. And the Gentiles have not entered into that covenant. The covenant that the Gentiles have entered into is the covenant that God made with Abraham to bless the world through his seed. Abraham was a Gentile not a Jew, not an Israelite and he did not keep the Sabbath.

When God made a covenant with the nation of Israel, He made it with the Jews, with the Israelites, not with Abraham and the Bible never speaks of us, the Church, as being the seed of Jacob (Israel) or the seed of Isaac. It speaks of us being the seed of Abraham by faith and that has nothing to do with the nation of Israel. We are the seed of a Gentile that did not keep the Sabbath, not the seed of an Israelite or a Jew who was commanded to keep the Sabbath. This is powerful!! This is extremely significant.

Now what is the first mention of Sabbath keeping in Exodus 20:8? Let’s look at it.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not
do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them
is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,
and hallowed it.

Now God commands this to the Jews and says not their menservants, thy maidservants and not their cattle, in other words, on the Sabbath, they could not hitch up their buggy and go to worship. The cows and horses couldn’t work. On the Sabbath they could not kindle a fire or carry any kind of load.

In Nehemiah 9:13 we have an interesting statement about the Sabbath.

Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Now verse 14 is the key: Look at this very closely.

Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

What did Moses do?

When he came down on mount Sinai, he made known unto them the Holy Sabbath. Meaning they did not know about it before Moses knew about it.

So the Word of God tells us that this is when God made known unto the Children of Israel, the Jews, His Holy Sabbath. No one from Adam knew about the Sabbath or were ever commanded to observe it. How could they observe what they never knew about? And that is why we never see a record of Sabbath keeping before Moses.

God did not make known to them just one Sabbath. He made known to them many Sabbaths. And yet, most of the people today just keep one Sabbath, one weekly Sabbath.

One of the Sabbaths involved keeping 7 days of unleavened bread and another Sabbath that involved the 7th year and there was a Sabbath that involved the 7th month. And there were certain ways that the Sabbaths were to be kept in fastings and what they could eat and could not eat and the blowing of trumpets. And if you are going to keep a Sabbath you have to keep all of the Sabbaths. You can’t go and cut them in half and say, “Ok, God instituted this but I am going to observe part of it and I’m going to do it the way our church does it.” You are going to have to do it the way God commanded.

And then in Ezekiel 20:12, He says:
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifieth them.

Did the Word just say Sabbaths? Plural, right? So there are multiple Sabbath keepings.

We can talk about those, later.

Axehead

God rested the Seventh Day. But did God rest because he was tired? Or did he make that day for man as the scriptures say the Sabbath was made for? Yes, God rested. But we are made in the image of God. We are to mimic the divine, in character, and in works. In this case – even in rest.

Of course the person who does not keep the Sabbath, shall be put to death. The wages of sin is death. We are still put to death, the wicked shall still be put to death for their sins shall they not be? Is it because that those who are disobedient are not immediately stoned in our day, does this mean that if they continue in that way, they shall not be put to death?

Leviticus 20:10 - And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

What about this verse on adultery? Shall not those who commit adultery surely be put to death? Yes. Yet, where are the stones, that should come flying upon every single one of us? Stoning, being IMMEDIATELY put to death as was in the Jewish time, has been done away with. If not, we would see Christians still stoning adulterers. But we know that that is not the case.

Please find the record of God telling Adam not to take his name in vain. And yet this is a commandment, and we know that it is sin to break this commandment. So, you cannot find the record of “Remember the Sabbath Day” plainly kept out. It is assumed that they kept the commandments of God. And yet, there is more evidence for the Sabbath in Genesis, than taking the Lord’s name in vain, and the Sabbath commandment is heartily rejected by Christians.

There is also the assumption, that we are not Israel. We as Christians, are grafted into Israel. Romans 11:16-24 shows that the root is holy. This is Israel. So are the branches, whereof Israel is supposed to be holy. The Natural branches however, were broken off, and we the gentiles, are being put into Israel. We are wild olive branches, grafted into natural Israel. And as Galatians 3:29 says, if you are Jesus Christ’s, then you are Abrahams. We know Abraham’s seed is Israel. This was the pride of Israel, being directly related to Abraham. But now we are shown that we Christians are related to Abraham too, through Jesus Christ. And finally, as Hosea 2:23 shows, we which were not his people of Israel, became His people, and He became our God.

The Sabbath Commandment also appeared in Exodus 16, before it was placed in stone, on Mount Sinai.

Moses did make known unto them the Sabbath day. But how is this an argument for something not having been instituted beforehand? Before gentiles were Christians, they were off worshipping idols. The Commandment still existed beforehand. But when God sent His Apostles to teach them about their dumb idols, was it only then that the Idolatry commandment existed? Or did it exist beforehand?

Also, if you read Leviticus 23, you will see in it’s entirety the differences between the annual sabbaths and the weekly Sabbath. Before speaking of the yearly sabbaths, Moses points out the 7[sup]th[/sup] day Sabbath. And after the yearly sabbaths in Leviticus 23:38, Moses shows they shall be keeping the yearly sabbaths now as well as the 7[sup]th[/sup] Day Sabbath. They are two different things. Also, the feast days were a shadow of things to come, which were added because of sin. The 7[sup]th[/sup] Day Sabbath was added before sin, in the Garden of Eden. The 7[sup]th[/sup] Day Sabbath could not have been a shadow of things to come. It points back to creation week, when God rested. It did not point forward, to what God would do on the cross.

 

[Axehead]

Of course the person who does not keep the Sabbath, shall be put to death. The wages of sin is death. We are still put to death, the wicked shall still be put to death for their sins shall they not be? Is it because that those who are disobedient are not immediately stoned in our day, does this mean that if they continue in that way, they shall not be put to death?

So, Raeneske, how do you "Keep the Sabbath" so that you do not join the "wicked" and are put to death. I assume you are implying "end up in hell".

 

[Raeneske]

So, Raeneske, how do you "Keep the Sabbath" so that you do not join the "wicked" and are put to death. I assume you are implying "end up in hell".

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. (Isaiah 58:13, 14 KJV)

Not doing my own pleasure, nor speaking my own words. This is a day to spend with our Father in Heaven, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything that is Sabbath-related is acceptable.

And I mean, put to death. The doctrine of hell that is taught states eternal conscious life in fire, not death.

I do not direct this entirely at you, but direct it at everyone. Why fight the Sabbath commandment? Do we fight our bosses when he tells us to take a day off? Do we fight our parents when they tell us to stop doing homework? Do we fight our loved ones when we're given an entire day to spend with them?

Of course, following the Sabbath means disrupting your normal routine. But so what? Isn't spending a day with our Father, and worrying about nothing else worth it? Isn't obediance, better than disobediance? Won't eternal life, be worth giving up every inch of self?

It is just simple obediance. Not trying to save yourself, not trying to work your way to Heaven, but obediance. Just like not taking the Lord's name in vain. It's obediance, that comes from loving your Heavenly Father.

 

[Axehead]

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. (Isaiah 58:13, 14 KJV)

Not doing my own pleasure, nor speaking my own words. This is a day to spend with our Father in Heaven, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything that is Sabbath-related is acceptable.

And I mean, put to death. The doctrine of hell that is taught states eternal conscious life in fire, not death.

I do not direct this entirely at you, but direct it at everyone. Why fight the Sabbath commandment? Do we fight our bosses when he tells us to take a day off? Do we fight our parents when they tell us to stop doing homework? Do we fight our loved ones when we're given an entire day to spend with them?

Of course, following the Sabbath means disrupting your normal routine. But so what? Isn't spending a day with our Father, and worrying about nothing else worth it? Isn't obediance, better than disobediance? Won't eternal life, be worth giving up every inch of self?

It is just simple obediance. Not trying to save yourself, not trying to work your way to Heaven, but obediance. Just like not taking the Lord's name in vain. It's obediance, that comes from loving your Heavenly Father.

Ok, Raeneske, I think I'm tracking with you. And you are tracking meticulously with the words of God in the OT. So, let me take it further for you.

How was the Sabbath observed? Exodus_16: 5-23 tells us that there was no cooking of food or preparation of food. You can’t use the microwave, you cannot boil a roast. You cannot cook your food, between sundown Friday (if that is the Sabbath) and sundown Saturday (if that is the Sabbath). I am not convinced that is the Sabbath. But if it is, if that is when the 7th day is, I mean it could be Tuesday or it could be Thursday. I have no proof that what we call Saturday, today is the Sabbath. No matter, just pick a day, right? The principle is that you rest on 1 day of the week. God won't hold it against you if you rest on the wrong day, will He?

And then Exodus_16:29, “let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

In other words they did not go and have a big church meeting on the Sabbath. They did not travel. They were to stay home and rest. Sabbath was about resting. They were commanded to stay home. No one is to go to meetings on that day. I'm just wondering how that would go over, today. Probably not too well. You know going to church meetings is a lot of work and then many are asked to work while they are at the church meetings (ministries).

Exodus_20:10 – No one is to work. Not the son or daughter or the cattle. Nothing!

Exodus_23:12 – The ox and the ass are to rest also.

Exodus_35:3 – They are to kindle no fire. If you get’s cold you just stay cold.

Numbers_15:32 – Gather no firewood. They could not pick up a stick of firewood on the Sabbath.

They just had to lay down and relax on the Sabbath. They could not lift a finger to go somewhere or to build a fire or to do anything.

Isaiah_58:13 – Says they are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.

Isaiah_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn’t get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

You couldn’t “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath.

And if they violated this in anyway, the penalty was death.

Any disagreement, so far Raeneske? Are you onboard with all of this?

Axehead

 

[Raeneske]

Ok, Raeneske, I think I'm tracking with you. And you are tracking meticulously with the words of God in the OT. So, let me take it further for you.

How was the Sabbath observed? Exodus_16: 5-23 tells us that there was no cooking of food or preparation of food. You can’t use the microwave, you cannot boil a roast. You cannot cook your food, between sundown Friday (if that is the Sabbath) and sundown Saturday (if that is the Sabbath). I am not convinced that is the Sabbath. But if it is, if that is when the 7th day is, I mean it could be Tuesday or it could be Thursday. I have no proof that what we call Saturday, today is the Sabbath. No matter, just pick a day, right? The principle is that you rest on 1 day of the week. God won't hold it against you if you rest on the wrong day, will He?

And then Exodus_16:29, “let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”

In other words they did not go and have a big church meeting on the Sabbath. They did not travel. They were to stay home and rest. Sabbath was about resting. They were commanded to stay home. No one is to go to meetings on that day. I'm just wondering how that would go over, today. Probably not too well. You know going to church meetings is a lot of work and then many are asked to work while they are at the church meetings (ministries).

Exodus_20:10 – No one is to work. Not the son or daughter or the cattle. Nothing!

Exodus_23:12 – The ox and the ass are to rest also.

Exodus_35:3 – They are to kindle no fire. If you get’s cold you just stay cold.

Numbers_15:32 – Gather no firewood. They could not pick up a stick of firewood on the Sabbath.

They just had to lay down and relax on the Sabbath. They could not lift a finger to go somewhere or to build a fire or to do anything.

Isaiah_58:13 – Says they are not to do their own ways, or do their own pleasures or speak their own words.

Isaiah_58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

In other words, you can’t sit around and talk about the good times. You cannot talk about fishing or hunting or sports or organic gardening or making bread. You can’t talk about your new building project or what the kids have been doing that week and how funny it was. You couldn’t get together with the family and friends and laugh and have a good time on the Sabbath.

You couldn’t “speak your own words”. The Sabbath was the time to speak only the words of God. So picture this, everyone is staying at home, no one is going in or out, no one is carrying a load, no one cooking anything. Everyone in a state of total relaxation, just praying, singing and speaking the words of God for the 24 hours. That is the way they kept the Sabbath.

And if they violated this in anyway, the penalty was death.

Any disagreement, so far Raeneske? Are you onboard with all of this?

Axehead

We are not to cook or prepare food on the Sabbath, that is correct. Food is to be prepared the day before. This does not of course, mean that you must eat the food previously cooked, completely cold. Warming food is completely fine. Nothing new is made, and it is not work with the technology, to flip a switch on your stove, or turn a knob.

As for the Sabbath day, no, we are not to pick anyday we want. Israel could never pick which day was the Sabbath, and we as Christians cannot do so either. It must be the Seventh Day Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath when God wants us to.

Also, about them not going out of their dwellings, such is true for the time being. But notice, it was not breaking the Sabbath for Christ to go into the synagogue on the Sabbath day. He did not live there, and he had to leave His dwelling to do attend a church service.

God is glorified on the Sabbath. There is nothing wrong with laughing, or a quick question. The Sabbath is generally a fun day. We glorify God, when we talk about what He did for us that week, and what things He helped us through. We glorify God, when we do Bible studies, and pray for one another. No, we don't do things that would be considered secular, or "just plain ol havin a good time". Those 24 hours are Sacred. We glorify God when we talk about ways to spread the work, contemplate ways to save souls. The Sabbath is also a remembrance, a pointing back to creation. It is a perfect day to do some studying on nature, the things which God created, and to sync them with the scriptures. You can sit down, relax, and dwell on the Almighty, and His creation. This is a rest day, a blessed day that God has given us.

Yes, you, nor your animals, nor you children, none. None are to do any work, whatsoever.

And no, they could not kindle fires because of the intensive work it requires, to gather the wood, and try to start a fire. There would be nothing wrong with preventing hypothermia. This is to be a blessed day, not a burden. However, if you needed a fire for the next day, gather wood for the two days as God commanded you to be completely prepared for the Sabbath day. Simple human needs are taken care of on the Sabbath.

I just want to be clear on something: I don't know if you're asking to show me up, or if you really want to know - But be careful of taking one verse specifically to immense extremes. That is how we become like the Pharisees, who set limits on how far you could walk, how much you could carry on the Sabbath day, etc, how much would you can have, how high a fire to keep warm could go, etc, and get doctrines out of context, like when Christ told the rich man, specifically, to sell all that he had, though some Christians will twist it, and say it means all of us have to.

It would not be work, for a fire to already be started, and to place another block of wood in the fire. Yes, we aren't to work, but we aren't to be unreasonable either. If such was the case, you wouldn't even be able to lift up a spoon or fork to eat, for fear of "work" on the Sabbath.

So to sunmarize, we are to do no work on the Sabbath. We are not to cook, buy, nor sell. We can warm food, and if someone drops down sick, then head to a health food store for something to restore them. Our conversations are controlled to the things of God, and His glorification. You can have prayers, or list praises, and talk about the praises you have for that week.

Edit: I just realized your violation comment. If adultery happened, it was condemned with death. But we are not in the time, where we are to immediatly kill someone. But yes, ALL unrepentant violaters, with full knowledge, and know the truth, shall be die. They are reserved unto the day of Judgement, as God says.

Does this help?

 

[Axehead]

We are not to cook or prepare food on the Sabbath, that is correct. Food is to be prepared the day before. This does not of course, mean that you must eat the food previously cooked, completely cold. Warming food is completely fine. Nothing new is made, and it is not work with the technology, to flip a switch on your stove, or turn a knob.

But what about people that live in a cabin or village in Africa and actually have to kindle a fire to cook their food because it is raw and they don't have any refrigeration?

As for the Sabbath day, no, we are not to pick any day we want. Israel could never pick which day was the Sabbath, and we as Christians cannot do so either. It must be the Seventh Day Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath when God wants us to.

Ok, so which day is the Seventh day? The Jewish Calendar was lost for awhile so how did they get back on track? How can you be absolutely 100% sure that you are "resting" on THE Seventh Day?

Also, about them not going out of their dwellings, such is true for the time being. But notice, it was not breaking the Sabbath for Christ to go into the synagogue on the Sabbath day. He did not live there, and he had to leave His dwelling to do attend a church service.

Ok, so I guess the principle that you are putting forth is whatever Christ did on the Sabbath, we can do, right? Does that also apply to the Apostles? Whatever they did on the Sabbath we can do, too?

God is glorified on the Sabbath. There is nothing wrong with laughing, or a quick question. The Sabbath is generally a fun day. We glorify God, when we talk about what He did for us that week, and what things He helped us through. We glorify God, when we do Bible studies, and pray for one another. No, we don't do things that would be considered secular, or "just plain ol havin a good time". Those 24 hours are Sacred. We glorify God when we talk about ways to spread the work, contemplate ways to save souls. The Sabbath is also a remembrance, a pointing back to creation. It is a perfect day to do some studying on nature, the things which God created, and to sync them with the scriptures. You can sit down, relax, and dwell on the Almighty, and His creation. This is a rest day, a blessed day that God has given us.

Yes, you, nor your animals, nor you children, none. None are to do any work, whatsoever.

Ok, but any wholesome talk even it if is not spiritual in nature you are saying that we need to refrain from, right? For instance, if my daughter is asking me to help her on one of her homework assignments for her class on the 1st day of the week, I should tell her that it is forbidden on the Sabbath to talk about secular things? Or, say my son has to work at a secular business on the Seventh Day, he should tell his employer that he cannot do that, right?

If my other son was a firefighter, should he fight fires on the Seventh Day? Well, just thinking about that, I guess it is ok for him to do that since Jesus healed on the Seventh Day. Would you agree? Also, since Jesus allowed the disciples to gather corn on the Sabbath, I suppose my other son could go to work if it was needed to provide food for him and his family. Would that not be the same application as the disciples working in the corn fields to gather food?

And no, they could not kindle fires because of the intensive work it requires, to gather the wood, and try to start a fire. T

here would be nothing wrong with preventing hypothermia. This is to be a blessed day, not a burden.

So, only people in developed countries with push button stoves and refrigerators could eat. What would be your advice to those who live in villages and hunt and gather daily?

Well, there was a man in the OT that went out to gather wood and he was caught and stoned. He and his family obviously needed it or else he would not have taken such a risky chance, don't you think?

However, if you needed a fire for the next day, gather wood for the two days as God commanded you to be completely prepared for the Sabbath day. Simple human needs are taken care of on the Sabbath.

I just want to be clear on something: I don't know if you're asking to show me up, or if you really want to know - But be careful of taking one verse specifically to immense extremes. That is how we become like the Pharisees, who set limits on how far you could walk, how much you could carry on the Sabbath day, etc, how much would you can have, how high a fire to keep warm could go, etc, and get doctrines out of context, like when Christ told the rich man, specifically, to sell all that he had, though some Christians will twist it, and say it means all of us have to.

I am trying to understand how you think the Sabbath day should be observed.

It would not be work, for a fire to already be started, and to place another block of wood in the fire. Yes, we aren't to work, but we aren't to be unreasonable either. If such was the case, you wouldn't even be able to lift up a spoon or fork to eat, for fear of "work" on the Sabbath.

I know, but I am just trying to understand how far you take the OT commandments of the Sabbath and where you relax some of the commandments. Also, how do you know how much you can relax a specific Sabbath commandment? In matters of justice, mercy and love, would you relax the Sabbath commandment? My point is, how do you know how much you can relax the commandment? What would you base it on? You can give me examples if you want to.

So to summarize, we are to do no work on the Sabbath. We are not to cook, buy, nor sell. We can warm food, and if someone drops down sick, then head to a health food store for something to restore them. Our conversations are controlled to the things of God, and His glorification. You can have prayers, or list praises, and talk about the praises you have for that week.

Edit: I just realized your violation comment. If adultery happened, it was condemned with death. But we are not in the time, where we are to immediatly kill someone. But yes, ALL unrepentant violaters, with full knowledge, and know the truth, shall be die. They are reserved unto the day of Judgement, as God says.

My only question here would be is there any place for repentance? Even if someone had full, premeditated knowledge of the sin they were going to commit, is there still a place for repentance in their lives? Can they turn away from sin and towards the Lord or is that an impossibility and would the Lord not receive them?

Does this help?

Well, it helps quite a bit, but as you can tell, I still have questions. Thank you for being gracious enough to share how you believe about the Sabbath. I'm not here to ridicule you. Sometimes when people say, "Keep the Sabbath", they never really tell you what they mean but you have been gracious enough to do so. May I inquire if you attend a specific denomination or Christian religion and what is it? Are you a Messianic Jew, or maybe Seventh Day Adventist. The reason I ask is it is not typically "mainstream Christianity" that is practicing the Sabbath as close as they did in the OT.

Thank you,
Axehead

 

[Raeneske]

[/color]

But what about people that live in a cabin or village in Africa and actually have to kindle a fire to cook their food because it is raw and they don't have any refrigeration?



Ok, so which day is the Seventh day? The Jewish Calendar was lost for awhile so how did they get back on track? How can you be absolutely 100% sure that you are "resting" on THE Seventh Day?



Ok, so I guess the principle that you are putting forth is whatever Christ did on the Sabbath, we can do, right? Does that also apply to the Apostles? Whatever they did on the Sabbath we can do, too?



Ok, but any wholesome talk even it if is not spiritual in nature you are saying that we need to refrain from, right? For instance, if my daughter is asking me to help her on one of her homework assignments for her class on the 1st day of the week, I should tell her that it is forbidden on the Sabbath to talk about secular things? Or, say my son has to work at a secular business on the Seventh Day, he should tell his employer that he cannot do that, right?

If my other son was a firefighter, should he fight fires on the Seventh Day? Well, just thinking about that, I guess it is ok for him to do that since Jesus healed on the Seventh Day. Would you agree? Also, since Jesus allowed the disciples to gather corn on the Sabbath, I suppose my other son could go to work if it was needed to provide food for him and his family. Would that not be the same application as the disciples working in the corn fields to gather food?





So, only people in developed countries with push button stoves and refrigerators could eat. What would be your advice to those who live in villages and hunt and gather daily?

Well, there was a man in the OT that went out to gather wood and he was caught and stoned. He and his family obviously needed it or else he would not have taken such a risky chance, don't you think?





I am trying to understand how you think the Sabbath day should be observed.



I know, but I am just trying to understand how far you take the OT commandments of the Sabbath and where you relax some of the commandments. Also, how do you know how much you can relax a specific Sabbath commandment? In matters of justice, mercy and love, would you relax the Sabbath commandment? My point is, how do you know how much you can relax the commandment? What would you base it on? You can give me examples if you want to.



My only question here would be is there any place for repentance? Even if someone had full, premeditated knowledge of the sin they were going to commit, is there still a place for repentance in their lives? Can they turn away from sin and towards the Lord or is that an impossibility and would the Lord not receive them?



Well, it helps quite a bit, but as you can tell, I still have questions. Thank you for being gracious enough to share how you believe about the Sabbath. I'm not here to ridicule you. Sometimes when people say, "Keep the Sabbath", they never really tell you what they mean but you have been gracious enough to do so. May I inquire if you attend a specific denomination or Christian religion and what is it? Are you a Messianic Jew, or maybe Seventh Day Adventist. The reason I ask is it is not typically "mainstream Christianity" that is practicing the Sabbath as close as they did in the OT.

Thank you,
Axehead

In Africa, They'll prepare their food, the day before the Sabbath day, and warm it the next day. About refrigeration, the cool thing about our God, is he'll actually preserve the food. We have that proof in Exodus. He preserved the bread for the Sabbath day that they gathered. Some tried to go out and gather food on the Sabbath, but could not. Everyday if they didn't eat their food, it was horrid the next day, except for the Sabbath Day, when God preserved the food overnight. I have no idea how He does it, it's just one of those insane miracles that He continuously supplied them with.

This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating. And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning. Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them. (Exodus 16:16-20 KJV)

See, when they gathered more than for that day, their food went bad. They could only gather enough for that one day, except when gathering for the Sabbath Day.

And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. (Exodus 16:22-26 KJV)

None in Israel could deny it, and it remains mind-boggling to this day how God did this, but He did.

As for the Seventh Day Sabbath, the weekly schedule had never been broken up. We have had more days to the years, and have gone through calender changes. But regardles of whether the calender went from Tuesday the 4th, to Wednesday the 15th. The weekly schedule is conpletely intact. Thus, we know that the Sabbath day is still Saturday, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

Now, there are some who are still serving God to the best of their ability, absolutely unknowing of the Sabbath Day truth. God accepts their sincerity, even Sunday keepers who are unawares, and think Sunday is the Sabbath. But as with anything God commands, they, upon learning the full truth, in the light, will take their stand in keeping the Commadments of God.

Yes, we are able to do what Christ and the Apostles did on the Sabbath - so long as there aren't Apostles breaking the Sabbath. I know Christ didn't, and I'm pretty sure there aren't instances of the Apostles breaking the Sabbath Day.

We should refrain from unwholesome talk on the Sabbath. Homework should be done before the Sabbath if possible. If not, then after sunset, they still have valid time to get their homework. Where I am right now, the sun goes down around 5:40ish. This would give ample time to finish an assignment, if needs be turned in on Sunday. I had an online class, where I turned assignments in after the Sabbath Day, or beforehand to avoid breaking it. And as for businesses, yes, we tell our employers that we are not able to work on that day.

It's interesting, there is a family that runs a business taking care of children with special needs. They will work everyday, except the Sabbath. No employee is to work on Sabbath. If they do want to come in, it is unpaid, and they do not allow certain things to go on and happen on the Sabbath Day. So, the employees would basically be volunteering at their job. This is in harmony with the Sabbath completely, as they remove all work that would be done, and none are hired to work that day.

No, I would not say absolutely scheduling work on the day, even as a firefighter is acceptable. Now, if there was a huge blaze and they needed His help, by all means, go in and assist to put that fire out. There is nothing against emergencies. And as for picking corn, they grabbed corn to satisfy their hunger. If they were employed farmers, it would be sin to do so, as they had all week to pick that corn. But Jesus and His disciples picking corn are the equivalent of taking a nature walk on Sabbath Day, with your family, discussing creation, etc, and picking an apple off the tree. There is no sin in doing this, so long as you are not gathering hundreds of apples to bring back to the house.

For those who hunt and gather daily, I would tell them to gather double of what they do, including the wood. Having everything prepared, that when they need to wam up food for eating, they do not have to go through intense anount of steps, just to get a fire. God wants them to do their best. Yes, unfortunatly, it seems others have harder work than us. But when the time comes, when Christians are on the run, we will be doing the same things. We will be gathering for Sabbath, and getting food, and cooking everything before the Sabbath.

My understanding was not that he needed the wood or rather, he WOULDN'T have needed the wood. My understanding was he deliberatly did not gather enough wood, and did as the Israelites first did, as I posted in this comment about Exodus 16.

As for "relaxing the commandment" it's all the basis on work. As much as needed, we are to prepare for the Sabbath. God was not trying to tell them to freeze to death on the Sabbath, nor was he telling them never to warm their food. He emphasized as much as possible preparing for the Sabbath Day, because He does not want us doing what we could've done on the preparation day, on the Sabbath.

Example: Starting a fire back then, required way more work than now. Now we can just strike a match, or flick a switch to start a fire. There is absolutely no work require there. Before however, they had to actually go an searchfor wood, gather enough wood (maybe more than one trip was needed) and then try to start a fire, and prepare the area to start it. God wanted to stop them from doing this on the Sabbath. He would not allow fires where they would start fully cooking meals. He wanted them fully cooked beforehand.

Yes, there is place for repentance. Just like Israel of old, everyone did not immediatly die for their sins, else we would have some serious issues. Yes, they were supposed to kill them, but God still allowed them space of repetance, unrepentant, deliberate sinners though... Let's just say their lives wouldn't end well.

As for Sabbath keeping, some people actually try to keep Sunday Holy. I am not a Messianic (sp?) Jew, nor am I a Seventh Day Adventist. I did start learning from Seventh Day Adventists about a year ago, and noticed that they were right about a lot of things. But they however have entered into the realm of apostasy. But that is no surprise, as Ellen White made it plain that that religion would change, and start doing the same things as other churches around the world, even reverting back to Sunday. It's a sad ordeal, but what can you expect? With Satan here, and seeing how much Israel apostasized, is it any wonder even Christians apostasize?

I am a Seventh Day Remnant. I know it sounds close to adventists, and we are really close to them. We're just not okay with their blatant apostasy, and accepting doctrines from the Catholic Church.

Well, I do hope this helps!

 

[epostle1]

How do we live out Sabbath rest in the NT era?

We go to church, and spend time with our families or have fun that is not self-destructive.

 

[Axehead]

In Africa, They'll prepare their food, the day before the Sabbath day, and warm it the next day. About refrigeration, the cool thing about our God, is he'll actually preserve the food. We have that proof in Exodus. He preserved the bread for the Sabbath day that they gathered. Some tried to go out and gather food on the Sabbath, but could not. Everyday if they didn't eat their food, it was horrid the next day, except for the Sabbath Day, when God preserved the food overnight. I have no idea how He does it, it's just one of those insane miracles that He continuously supplied them with.

This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating. And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning. Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them. (Exodus 16:16-20 KJV)

See, when they gathered more than for that day, their food went bad. They could only gather enough for that one day, except when gathering for the Sabbath Day.

And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. (Exodus 16:22-26 KJV)

None in Israel could deny it, and it remains mind-boggling to this day how God did this, but He did.

As for the Seventh Day Sabbath, the weekly schedule had never been broken up. We have had more days to the years, and have gone through calender changes. But regardles of whether the calender went from Tuesday the 4th, to Wednesday the 15th. The weekly schedule is conpletely intact. Thus, we know that the Sabbath day is still Saturday, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

Now, there are some who are still serving God to the best of their ability, absolutely unknowing of the Sabbath Day truth. God accepts their sincerity, even Sunday keepers who are unawares, and think Sunday is the Sabbath. But as with anything God commands, they, upon learning the full truth, in the light, will take their stand in keeping the Commadments of God.

Yes, we are able to do what Christ and the Apostles did on the Sabbath - so long as there aren't Apostles breaking the Sabbath. I know Christ didn't, and I'm pretty sure there aren't instances of the Apostles breaking the Sabbath Day.

We should refrain from unwholesome talk on the Sabbath. Homework should be done before the Sabbath if possible. If not, then after sunset, they still have valid time to get their homework. Where I am right now, the sun goes down around 5:40ish. This would give ample time to finish an assignment, if needs be turned in on Sunday. I had an online class, where I turned assignments in after the Sabbath Day, or beforehand to avoid breaking it. And as for businesses, yes, we tell our employers that we are not able to work on that day.

It's interesting, there is a family that runs a business taking care of children with special needs. They will work everyday, except the Sabbath. No employee is to work on Sabbath. If they do want to come in, it is unpaid, and they do not allow certain things to go on and happen on the Sabbath Day. So, the employees would basically be volunteering at their job. This is in harmony with the Sabbath completely, as they remove all work that would be done, and none are hired to work that day.

No, I would not say absolutely scheduling work on the day, even as a firefighter is acceptable. Now, if there was a huge blaze and they needed His help, by all means, go in and assist to put that fire out. There is nothing against emergencies. And as for picking corn, they grabbed corn to satisfy their hunger. If they were employed farmers, it would be sin to do so, as they had all week to pick that corn. But Jesus and His disciples picking corn are the equivalent of taking a nature walk on Sabbath Day, with your family, discussing creation, etc, and picking an apple off the tree. There is no sin in doing this, so long as you are not gathering hundreds of apples to bring back to the house.

For those who hunt and gather daily, I would tell them to gather double of what they do, including the wood. Having everything prepared, that when they need to wam up food for eating, they do not have to go through intense anount of steps, just to get a fire. God wants them to do their best. Yes, unfortunatly, it seems others have harder work than us. But when the time comes, when Christians are on the run, we will be doing the same things. We will be gathering for Sabbath, and getting food, and cooking everything before the Sabbath.

My understanding was not that he needed the wood or rather, he WOULDN'T have needed the wood. My understanding was he deliberatly did not gather enough wood, and did as the Israelites first did, as I posted in this comment about Exodus 16.

As for "relaxing the commandment" it's all the basis on work. As much as needed, we are to prepare for the Sabbath. God was not trying to tell them to freeze to death on the Sabbath, nor was he telling them never to warm their food. He emphasized as much as possible preparing for the Sabbath Day, because He does not want us doing what we could've done on the preparation day, on the Sabbath.

Example: Starting a fire back then, required way more work than now. Now we can just strike a match, or flick a switch to start a fire. There is absolutely no work require there. Before however, they had to actually go an searchfor wood, gather enough wood (maybe more than one trip was needed) and then try to start a fire, and prepare the area to start it. God wanted to stop them from doing this on the Sabbath. He would not allow fires where they would start fully cooking meals. He wanted them fully cooked beforehand.

Yes, there is place for repentance. Just like Israel of old, everyone did not immediatly die for their sins, else we would have some serious issues. Yes, they were supposed to kill them, but God still allowed them space of repetance, unrepentant, deliberate sinners though... Let's just say their lives wouldn't end well.

As for Sabbath keeping, some people actually try to keep Sunday Holy. I am not a Messianic (sp?) Jew, nor am I a Seventh Day Adventist. I did start learning from Seventh Day Adventists about a year ago, and noticed that they were right about a lot of things. But they however have entered into the realm of apostasy. But that is no surprise, as Ellen White made it plain that that religion would change, and start doing the same things as other churches around the world, even reverting back to Sunday. It's a sad ordeal, but what can you expect? With Satan here, and seeing how much Israel apostasized, is it any wonder even Christians apostasize?

I am a Seventh Day Remnant. I know it sounds close to adventists, and we are really close to them. We're just not okay with their blatant apostasy, and accepting doctrines from the Catholic Church.

Well, I do hope this helps!

Seventh Day Remnant Church, OK. I just briefly looked over the website. So, it is a hybrid of Seventh Day Adventism, then. Did you guys go through some kind of split with them over beliefs or conduct? What happened?

Getting back to the Sabbaths -
God made known to Israel many Sabbaths, right? And yet, most people today just keep one Sabbath, one weekly Sabbath.

One of the Sabbaths involved keeping 7 days of unleavened bread and another Sabbath that involved the 7th year and there was a Sabbath that involved the 7th month. And there were certain ways that the Sabbaths were to be kept in fastings and what they could eat and could not eat and the blowing of trumpets, etc, etc. Don't you think if you are going to keep a Sabbath you have to keep all of the Sabbaths? How can you adhere to the Scriptures on the weekly Sabbath but not the other Sabbaths, or do you also keep the other Sabbaths? If you don't keep all the different kinds of Sabbaths how do you justify "picking and choosing". Or do you not think that Jesus kept all the Sabbaths and how would you know?

And then in Ezekiel_20:12, He says:
Eze_20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifieth them.

By the way, I don't think there was any place for repentance for the father that was collecting wood in the OT on the Sabbath.

In Numbers_15:32-36, the children of Israel found a man that was gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, and they brought him unto Moses and Aaron and the congregation. God had just given them this law and they found a father who was out picking up sticks so he could bring them back to build up the fire to cook a little manna to eat.

Let’s see what happened.

Num_15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num_15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num_15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num_15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num_15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

They waited until after the Sabbath because they could not lift stones on the Sabbath. So they put him in jail (in a ward) until the Sabbath was over. All the congregation had to bash their neighbor in the head with stones as the wives and kids stood by and watched him die. Why? He violated the Sabbath.

So, what is interesting is today, is if someone violates the Sabbath, you are saying that THERE IS a place for repentance which is contrary to the story in Numbers 15. What about just forgiveness or is there no forgiveness without repentance? Do you think other people are saved who are not part of the Seventh Day Remnant and don't subscribe to your view of Sabbath Keeping?


Axehead

 

[Raeneske]

Seventh Day Remnant Church, OK. I just briefly looked over the website. So, it is a hybrid of Seventh Day Adventism, then. Did you guys go through some kind of split with them over beliefs or conduct? What happened?

Getting back to the Sabbaths -
God made known to Israel many Sabbaths, right? And yet, most people today just keep one Sabbath, one weekly Sabbath.

One of the Sabbaths involved keeping 7 days of unleavened bread and another Sabbath that involved the 7th year and there was a Sabbath that involved the 7th month. And there were certain ways that the Sabbaths were to be kept in fastings and what they could eat and could not eat and the blowing of trumpets, etc, etc. Don't you think if you are going to keep a Sabbath you have to keep all of the Sabbaths? How can you adhere to the Scriptures on the weekly Sabbath but not the other Sabbaths, or do you also keep the other Sabbaths? If you don't keep all the different kinds of Sabbaths how do you justify "picking and choosing". Or do you not think that Jesus kept all the Sabbaths and how would you know?

And then in Ezekiel_20:12, He says:
Eze_20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctifieth them.

By the way, I don't think there was any place for repentance for the father that was collecting wood in the OT on the Sabbath.

In Numbers_15:32-36, the children of Israel found a man that was gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, and they brought him unto Moses and Aaron and the congregation. God had just given them this law and they found a father who was out picking up sticks so he could bring them back to build up the fire to cook a little manna to eat.

Let’s see what happened.

Num_15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num_15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num_15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num_15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num_15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

They waited until after the Sabbath because they could not lift stones on the Sabbath. So they put him in jail (in a ward) until the Sabbath was over. All the congregation had to bash their neighbor in the head with stones as the wives and kids stood by and watched him die. Why? He violated the Sabbath.

So, what is interesting is today, is if someone violates the Sabbath, you are saying that THERE IS a place for repentance which is contrary to the story in Numbers 15. What about just forgiveness or is there no forgiveness without repentance? Do you think other people are saved who are not part of the Seventh Day Remnant and don't subscribe to your view of Sabbath Keeping?


Axehead

The Seventh Day Adventist Church did exactly as Ellen White sais they would. They allowed the world to enter into the church and did not, "be ye seperate". To avoid being labeled a cult as well, they accepted the Roman Catholic Trinity around the 1980's which caused a MASS exodus of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Sadly, though, this blatant apostasy isn't affecting a lot of them. They believe that even when the church is in apostasy, they should not leave. This is a dangerous mind-set. We know the Bible calls us out of churches in apostasy, so why would this one be any different? Some will quote Ellen White out of context to support their theories, wherein the SDA church had not yet apostasized. She has quotes where she says, "God has not given you this message... The SDA Church is not Babylon... Messages will come claiming to be from God..." Truth is, in that day, the church was not in apostasy. They were spreading the angel's messages. They didn't accept unbiblical doctrines. In that time, someone was spreading leaflets called "The Loud Cry", in which they were calling a Church in apostasy, that wasn't. Now, however, they have changed, as Ellen White said it would. That quote however, if often ignored. When a church isn't Biblical, and is going downhill, somehow we're supposed to believe that you should stay in that church.

Moving on…

Yes, God made many. There is the weekly Sabbath, and there is the annual sabbaths. Most people do keep one, even those that believe that Sunday is actually the Sabbath - unknowingly of course.

Now about the weekly Sabbath and the annual sabbaths, there is a great difference. The weekly Sabbath was instituted before mankind fell into sin. This is important to pay attention to, because of this verse:

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19 KJV)

Was the weekly Sabbath added because of transgressions, or was it added before the fall? It was added before the fall, God rested the Seventh Day, and made the Sabbath for mankind. Even in the happy and holy state, mankind needed the Sabbath to remind them of their Creator. It's kind of like the same way Adam needed Eve. Adam could not have been perfectly happy, and blessed in every possible if he did not have a companion of the same flesh to love. So, the Sabbath was made for mankind to rest, and to keep them close to their Creator, for worshipping and resting the whole day.

What about the annual sabbaths? These were added because of transgression. And why were these added? We know as Christians, that the annual sabbaths pointed to Jesus, as the scriptures say, "til the seed should come". They were added to bring to the forefront of Israel's mind, their redeemer. All the annual sabbaths were a shadow of things to come. It was to proclaim what Christ would do for them. Christ would not have had to come, if we didn't transgress. Christ came and died, and resurrected because of man's transgression. For example, the passover on the 14th; Christ died on Friday the 14th. The feast of unleavened bread the 15th, and on the 16th the firstfruits harvest. That Sunday, Christ became the firstfruits of them that would rise again.

Now, the difference between the two is made in Moses speech in Israel as well.

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. (Leviticus 23:1-5 KJV)

After the Lord tells them they have feasts they must be keeping, he briefly reminds them "6 days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is the sabbath of rest." Then, in verse 4, he starts speaking of the feasts. Now, after all the feasts, he mentions they shall be keeping those annual sabbaths besides the Sabbath of the Lord, meaning, as well as the Lord's Sabbath.

These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord. (Leviticus 23:37, 38 KJV)

As you can see, they were to do those annual sabbaths as well as the weekly Sabbath, their gifts, their vows, and freewill offerings.

As for the man who gathered, I think an extreme example was placed to show what would happen to those who worked on the Sabbath Day. We also know the Pharisees sought to kill Jesus on the Sabbath Day. We know they were adamant about stoning people for transgressing laws. What i'm trying to say is, we know Israel apostasized many times, and there is no way that while remaining in idolatry, not a single person did not do things worthy of death. They did, but they were allowed space for repentance, as the Lord wanted to save them. However, while not in apostasy, or not deceived, it is a bold move to decide to transgress the Sabbath day - one that could cost you your life - and your eternal life.

Now, I must show you a verse, you are going a little far, with this immediatly being put to death business.

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 KJV)

Does this mean, that Christians who commit adultary shall be put to death immediatly in this day and age? And remember, Jesus said even looking at someone with lust is adultary.

The obvious answer, is no, we do not do that. The same thing is said for the Sabbath day. No, we do not immediatly kill someone who transgresses the law. All we do is try to forgive them, and allow them to repent, that Jesus can say to them "Go, and sin no more."

However, will transgressers be put to death? When will tbey be put to death?

They are worthy of death for sinning, because remember, the wages of sin is death, but also the wicked are now reserved unto the day of the Lord. A completely known, unrepentant sin, is worthy of death. This is why, those who transgress God's law, knowingly and willingly, and unrepentantly, shall be put to death.

As for those saved, of course there are people saved outside the Seventh Day Remnant Church. There are those who are serving God to the best of their known ability. God accepts their sincerity. However upon completely knowing the truth, we do have to make the decision.

It's like a Christian who doesn't have a Bible but is serving the living God to the best of their ability. And say, they currently do not understand correctly about taking the Lord's name in vain. They are doing their very best, and God accepts their sincerity. They are not forsaken. But upon learning about this commandment, the truth contained in it, they must then make a choice. Continue living the life they are living - or - give up their sinful ways, and have a closer walk with Jesus. All must make these types of decisions in their life, including you and I. I had to make my decision about the Sabbath about a year ago. It took me 3 weeks to a month to make it, but I made the decision.

With Respect,
Raeneske

 

[John_8:32]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The seventh day Sabbath and the annual Sabbaths are shadows of things yet to occur, remember this was written 20 some years after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The Sabbath is a shadow of the Millenium after six days of man's work (human disobedience and misrule on the earth).

I don't believe Josh is asking us how do we assemble each week but how do we live out the Sabbath Rest of Christ each day.

Would that be correct, Josh or do you think the "Sabbath Rest" has to do with Day(s) of the week rather than with Christ's rest?

Here are some more scriptures:


Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Where in scripture is God's law called elements of the world?

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

The subject here is not the law of God, but being in subjection to false gods.

Where in scripture is observance of days, months, times and years given?

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

There are no "holy months" in scripture nor years.

Paul is referring to returning here to false religion.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14 is not about the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats at all, it is about eating meat...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

The subject in verses 1-3 is vegetarianism. The subject of verses 5-6 is fasting...

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Paul is showing here that it is better not to eat or drink anything in the sight of your brother that may cause him to stumble. Remember verse 1...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Axehead

You left out...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Which is not the greatest translation. The word for rest here is not katapausis as is found in the other verses, the word is...

G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
sab-bat-is-mos'
From a derivative of G4521; a “sabbatism”, that is, (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven): - rest.

which is dervied from...

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

A better translation would be a keeping of a Sabbath. In fact, you will find this in the margin of many Bibles.

 

[marksman]

The original question was about the Sabbath rest, not about the Sabbath day. They are two different things. The sabbath rest is something the believer experiences all day every day. The Sabbath day is once a week on Saturday.

In Hebrews it talks about those that enter into rest cease from their own works, just as God did with his 4:10.

Strangely it says in v11 that we have to make an effort to enter into that rest, so we are in essence resting but at the same time striving to enter into rest so it seems that it is not a foregone conclusion.

To not enter into rest is a sign of unbelief so to enter into rest requires belief in the finished work of God. In other words, I cannot earn my salvation so I place my total dependence on him both for salvation and for the life I live as a believer. In other words...take no thought for tomorrow.

Regarding the Sabbath day which is once a week on Saturday, I will clarify a couple of things. In the old Testament you have 10 commandments that came from God and then there are 236 ordinances, which are not commandments. What passed away at the cross were the ordinances, not the commandments which if you think about it, is quite logical.

If you say, we don't have to keep the Sabbath (the fourth commandment) because Jesus did away with them at the cross, you have to say then that it is OK to murder, it is OK to covet, it is OK to commit adultery. Nowhere does the scripture suggest that commandment 4 was done away with on the cross but the other nine weren't.

If you do away with number four, you have to do away with the other nine.

Regards to the church changing the Sabbath to Sunday there is no indication in the New Testament that this happened for one very simple reason. The New Testament Church was a Jewish church. They were seen as a branch of Judaism which is not surprising as they still obeyed the law and went to the synagogue on Saturday and it was also evident when the Jewish church tried to make gentile believers become Jews first.

In NT days, people worked SIX days a week. The day they didn't work was the Sabbath which was sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It would have been impossible for the NT church to meet on Sunday because everyone was at work and there was no meeting in the synagogue on Sunday.

The Roman Catholic church changed it from Saturday to Sunday because it wanted to be seen as a separate entity from the Jewish faith. God did not change it or instruct it.

In addition the pagan religions met on Sunday (the day of the sun) and they wanted to attract more of them into the church and away from their pagan religion so they considered their best bet was to meet on the day of the sun as well.

To say that God ordained Sunday as a day of rest is no more than clutching at straws and trying to make scripture back up man made religion.