His concept of time is already deceptive and likely his interpretation of Genesis, which go hand in hand.
Yeah, so am I and pretty much every argument I know to support it I learned from Bob Enyart.
As for his concept of time being deceptive, saying it doesn't make it so!
Is this just an accusation you wanted to throw out there and let wave in the wind in the hopes that it might prevent someone from reading Bob's material or do you have even a syllable of substance by which to establish such an accusation?
Never said there wasn't any time in heaven. I SAID, GOD IS OUTSIDE OF OUR TIME DOMAIN (construct).
God exists outside of Heaven, is that your point?
Listen, the spiritual realm is different.
Do you mean that it is irrational and that we should therefore be willing to accept the self-contradictory as truth so long as it pertains to the spiritual realm?
Based on what?
Some astro-physicists have suggested many multiple dimensions beyond what we experience.
So what? I'm not debating a atheistic scientist, I'm debating a Bible believing, young Earth, Creationist who I would hope has a desire to think biblically (not to mention rationally).
In short, garbage in garbage out. Modern cosmology is based on so many false premises that it's hard to list them all.
"The 11th dimension is a characteristic of space-time that has been proposed as a possible answer to questions that arise in superstring theory. The theory of superstrings involves the existence of nine dimensions of space and one dimension of time for a total of 10 dimensions." Just theoretical, but the missing components that these guys can't figure exist outside the physical realm, in the spiritual. They are unknown, therefore, physics will never solve the cosmic puzzle completely.
String theory is as good an example as I can think of when talking about how unscientific modern cosmology has become. String Theory (or any of its variants) is fundamentally untestable. There is no experiment that can even be postulated, never mind actually performed, by which the theory can be tested. It is therefore, overtly and intentionally and irrefutably unscientific - by definition.
I think heaven looks like earth, only it is perfect. Our new resurrected bodies will be multi-dimensional, able to pass from the spiritual realm into the physical as Jesus did and angels as well, defying gravity, distance, etc. So the upgrade of our eternal bodies will be also accompanied by an upgrade in our environment.
Speculation. Interesting, but irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Prophecy proves that He not only plans but sees exactly how things will happen. He showed the prophets visions of events The events of Revelation 6-19 will soon unfold exactly how John saw it. That is a dimension that you nor I are familiar with.
I understand that this is your doctrine but it is speculation in regards to the Revelation passages and unbibical in regards to prophesy.
First of all there is more than one kind of prophesy and a great many prophesies aren't predictive prophesy but rather are passages of scripture that were "fulfilled", usually by Christ, in that events occurred in a manner that intentionally parallels those passage. And, there are several predictive prophesies in the bible that DID NOT come to pass!
I can give examples, if you'd like.
Well, I'm not either, but I have listened to and learned from a genius, Chuck Missler, who delved in that area of astrophysics. Much of his ministry consisted of his apologetic approach to witness about the existence of God as the Designer of the Universe (who operates outside of our time domain). That is where I picked up that phrase. He has several books out. In the early 90's, I was a new Christian and was fascinated by his mind.
I have no doubt that he has a very effective ministry and comes at it from a place of great intentions but he's made a mistake.
Have you ever heard of a Stolen Concept Fallacy? It's a kind of contradiction where one concept is used to undermine another concept that the first concept is logically based upon. The clearest example is the single sentence statement, "All private property is theft." Such a statement might be heard from a leftist on some college campus somewhere. The point being to associate what most consider a positive thing "private property" with a negative thing "theft". The problem is that the concept of theft has no meaning outside the purview of private property. If a thing is not owned by anyone, it cannot be stolen, by definition. Thus, the statement "steals the concept" of theft.
The idea of "existence outside of time" commits the same kind of error. It steals the concept of existence by undermining the concept of time upon which the concept of existence logically depends. Time is not a thing or a place, it is an abstraction, an idea. It is the concept we use to communicate the duration and sequence of events. Existence presupposes duration and therefore presupposes time. Thus, the idea of timeless existence is an oxymoron and self-evidently false.
Further, the bible never talks about God existing in a timeless manner.....
When Reading in the Greek, We See that God:
- is timeless
- in an eternal now
- without sequence or succession
- without moment or duration
- atemporal and outside of time
- not was, nor will be, but only is
- has no past
- has no future.
Of course NOT ONE of these phrases is in the Bible. They're from Plato.
When Reading the Bible, We See that God:
is - and was - and is to come - Whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting - Forever and ever - The Ancient of Days - From before the ages of the ages - From ancient times - the everlasting God - He continues forever - From of old - Remains forever - abides - Eternal - Immortal - The Lord shall endure forever - Who lives forever - yesterday, today, and forever - God’s years - manifest in His own time - Everlasting Father - Alive forevermore - Always lives - Forever - Continually - the eternal God - God’s years will have no end - From everlasting to everlasting - From that time forward, even forever - And of His kingdom there will be no end.
The above is excerpted from another article written by Bob Enyart....
Temporal nature? We are in a temporal realm. Heaven is eternal. But yes, time as we know it, will not have value, since we won't waste it, or lose it, or feel rushed as if we are running out of it. Death has a time stamp, eternal life does not.
I think you must surely have missed the point because you did it again.
The only reason "death has a time stamp on it and eternal life does not" is because eternal life is never ending, not because the concepts of duration and sequence don't apply to it. On the contrary, it is precisely the duration of this life vs. the next that is the point. The duration of this life is finite. It had a definite beginning and will have a definite end. Whereas your eternal life had a definitely beginning (i.e. when you were saved) but it's duration is forever. It's duration will be unending and approach infinity.
Again, just a different perspective of time ... as different as everything else will be.
Sin distorted the world and numbered our years. Being free of sin and that distortion freed us from aging and death. We will not have birthdays anymore - we won't value years and age. It is just as well there won't be years anymore, I can't imagine having a billion candles on my cake.
Well, once again, this is somewhat speculative. The fact is that we do know that, at the very least, one month will be deliniated from another based on which fruit is ripe on the Tree of Life and we simply do not know what value there will be in regards to keeping track of the history of Heavenly events.
Further, you will still grow old in Heaven. Not in terms of geriatrics where your body breaks down and all of that but simply in terms of time. God is called "The Ancient of Days"!
Daniel 7:
9 “I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;.....
.....13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.