No One Dies And Goes To Heaven. It is not the Gospel of Christ.

[us2are1]

There is no where in scripture that teaches or even implies that anyone dies and goes to heaven. It is not in the Gospel of Christ and in fact contradicts a need for the resurrection from the dead at Christs' return.
There is no scripture or teaching in the bible that says that anyone goes to heaven at all. The Kingdom of heaven is here on earth after the Resurrection of the dead. They are brought back to life from death to live and rule on earth during Christs' thousand year reign.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

There is no where in scripture that teaches or even implies that anyone dies and goes to heaven. It is not in the Gospel of Christ and in fact contradicts a need for the resurrection from the dead at Christs' return.
There is no scripture or teaching in the bible that says that anyone goes to heaven at all. The Kingdom of heaven is here on earth after the Resurrection of the dead. They are brought back to life from death to live and rule on earth during Christs' thousand year reign.

It is simply convenient terminology to call it heaven. No big deal

Plenty of places in the bible that tell us our spirit - soul goes to be with the Lord at death .... then sometime later we are all given a new resurrected body.

 

[us2are1]

It is simply convenient terminology to call it heaven. No big deal

Plenty of places in the bible that tell us our spirit - soul goes to be with the Lord at death .... then sometime later we are all given a new resurrected body.

There is no scripture that says what you claim. There is this one misunderstood scripture spoken by Paul that does not say that at all.

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

​When you die you are dead until Christ brings you back to life. So not having any consciousness in death you don't miss time passing. Then when Christ appears, you who are worthy will appear with Him, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump.

The Big deal is Believing the lies of the devil. God will not hold anyone harmless who believes and serves lies.

Repent and believe the gospel of Christ fore the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

 

[veteran]

Matt 17:1-9
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if Thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for Thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
(KJV)

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
(KJV)


Luke 9:28-32
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with Him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two men that stood with Him.
(KJV)

 

[us2are1]

Matt 17:1-9
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if Thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for Thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
(KJV)

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
(KJV)


Luke 9:28-32
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of His decease which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with Him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two men that stood with Him.
(KJV)

So Veteran

What has your imagination made out of these scriptures? God is the God of the living. All who are written in the palm of His hand, In Heaven, will be brought back to life from death, in the Resurrection from the dead, at the return of Christ.

 

[veteran]

The dead-in-the-ground theory you're holding to is an old Jewish tradition based on supposition that one's 'soul' is made of flesh.

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(KJV)


2 Cor 5:1
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(KJV)

 

[Foreigner]

What is point of this thread, exactly?

Once Christian's die they are not going to sit in hell until Christ returns, and when He returns we will be with Him always.

The rest is just verbage.




.

 

[veteran]

What is point of this thread, exactly?

Once Christian's die they are not going to sit in hell until Christ returns, and when He returns we will be with Him always.

The rest is just verbage.
.

The difference is with how some believe those asleep in Christ are still out in the graveyard which is an old Pharisee tradition, since they had difficulty with understanding how one's spirit and soul are not of the flesh (Eccl.12:5-7 in conjunction with those NT Scriptures above, including what Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15).

 

[us2are1]

What is point of this thread, exactly?

Once Christian's die they are not going to sit in hell until Christ returns, and when He returns we will be with Him always.

The rest is just verbage.




.

On the contrary. You will stay in the grave with no consciousness until brought back to life by Christ at the Resurrection of the dead.
The point of the thread is to tell the truth and expose the lies. Believing the lies will cause you to stay in the grave with no consciousness for eternity. Separated from God and Life.

The difference is with how some believe those asleep in Christ are still out in the graveyard which is an old Pharisee tradition, since they had difficulty with understanding how one's spirit and soul are not of the flesh (Eccl.12:5-7 in conjunction with those NT Scriptures above, including what Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15).

Man is flesh just as God has said. 3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Only the Spirit of God is not of the flesh If indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But your soul is flesh until God raises it back to life changed.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Notice how the scripture says "the dead". Not wandering around in heaven. Dead. The dead are brought back to life.

The modern going to heaven gospel was created by the devil to undermine Christ's Resurrection from the dead gospel.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Hebrews 12 speaks of the heavenly Jerusalem where the spirits of the righteous are now made perfect.
[sup]22 [/sup]But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, [sup]23 [/sup]to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, [sup]24 [/sup]to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.


Then there is the age old verse from 2 Corinthians which says it is better to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.


Notice also in Hebrews where it mentions thousands of angels ..... that is why we sometimes say our departed loved ones are "with the angels".

I don't know what is eating away at you Son of Man ..... you come across as hating most things Christian .... what gives ..???

The real Son Of Man would not be pleased.

 

[us2are1]

Hebrews 12 speaks of the heavenly Jerusalem where the spirits of the righteous are now made perfect.
[sup]22 [/sup]But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, [sup]23 [/sup]to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, [sup]24 [/sup]to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.


Then there is the age old verse from 2 Corinthians which says it is better to be absent from the body and be present with the Lord.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.


Notice also in Hebrews where it mentions thousands of angels ..... that is why we sometimes say our departed loved ones are "with the angels".

I don't know what is eating away at you Son of Man ..... you come across as hating most things Christian .... what gives ..???

The real Son Of Man would not be pleased.

Those scriptures plainly state "whose names are written in heaven" . Mount Zion which will come to pass after the Resurrection from the dead. Those scriptures speak of a place that will come but has not been built yet. The first heaven and the first earth have not yet passed away.

Hating the lies of the devil is the work of the Spirit of God. The lies of the devil are not true Christianity but a counterfeit to lead Gods sheep astray.

If you knew the son of man you would not be judging him by what your flesh loves.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

If you knew the son of man you would not be judging him by what your flesh loves.

i do know Him.

And you are not Him. You are a counterfeit.

 

[Strat]

On this week's espisode of the Bible know-it-all show we learn that there is no heaven...next there will be no Hell,then no ressurection...be sure to tune in next week for the Bible Know-it-all show to find out what other parts of the Bible are not true.

 

[us2are1]

i do know Him.

And you are not Him. You are a counterfeit.

Then you will repent when you see it all coming down on your head. Repent while you still have time.

25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!

On this week's espisode of the Bible know-it-all show we learn that there is no heaven...next there will be no Hell,then no ressurection...be sure to tune in next week for the Bible Know-it-all show to find out what other parts of the Bible are not true.

You remind me of the one who struck Christ on the face saying ""Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?"

Repent while there is still time.

This post is for those who hunger, thirst and need the truth and all of their lives have been subject to the lies of men profaning the gospel of Christ. They are the little ones mentioned in this scripture.

6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[Strat]

Then you will repent when you see it all coming down on your head. Repent while you still have time.

25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!



You remind me of the one who struck Christ on the face saying ""Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?"

Repent while there is still time.

This post is for those who hunger, thirst and need the truth and all of their lives have been subject to the lies of men profaning the gospel of Christ. They are the little ones mentioned in this scripture.

6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Then you will repent when you see it all coming down on your head. Repent while you still have time.

25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!



You remind me of the one who struck Christ on the face saying ""Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?"

Repent while there is still time.

This post is for those who hunger, thirst and need the truth and all of their lives have been subject to the lies of men profaning the gospel of Christ. They are the little ones mentioned in this scripture.

6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

You remind me of a puffed up liar and apostate

 

[us2are1]

You remind me of a puffed up liar and apostate

25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!

11 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.

There is no where in scripture that teaches or even implies that anyone dies and goes to heaven. It is not in the Gospel of Christ and in fact contradicts a need for the resurrection from the dead at Christs' return.
There is no scripture or teaching in the bible that says that anyone goes to heaven at all. The Kingdom of heaven is here on earth after the Resurrection of the dead. They are brought back to life from death to live and rule on earth during Christs' thousand year reign.

Who can understand and explain this scripture?

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

.





Where is the real heaven

4 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

1 Thus says the Lord: "Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest?

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[Rach1370]

What is point of this thread, exactly?

Once Christian's die they are not going to sit in hell until Christ returns, and when He returns we will be with Him always.

The rest is just verbage.
.

There is no point. But it sounded better than "listen up people, to the Bible as Son of Man proclaims it to be...all else is but folly and shall be ridiculed and declared false by no reason or proof but that I say I'm right and you're wrong....nee nah nee nah"....

 

[Foreigner]

There is no point. But it sounded better than "listen up people, to the Bible as Son of Man proclaims it to be...all else is but folly and shall be ridiculed and declared false by no reason or proof but that I say I'm right and you're wrong....nee nah nee nah"....

-- lol Excellent point. Thanks, Rach.

 

[veteran]

The idea of those that sleep in Jesus is an expression for those in Christ that have died. It does not mean they are literally still in the ground where their rotting flesh corpse was laid. Nor can it be proven Biblically that we are made flesh only, since even back in Ecclesiastes 12 Solomon revealed that at flesh death our flesh body goes back to the earth 'where it came from', and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. With that event Solomon mentioned the idea of a "silver cord" that must be severred for that to happen, which shows he was talking about 2 different orders or operations, flesh vs. spirit.

Later in the NT Scriptures from Apostle Paul, he revealed more about this matter between our flesh body and our spirit, as also our Lord Jesus did too specifically in Scripture like Matt.10:28 about the soul's continued existence after the flesh body is killed.

So why did Paul use the expression of those in Christ that died being asleep? It's because those in Christ Jesus per His Promise shall never... die, which is not a flesh death association, but an association about eternal life to their soul and spirit. The reason why Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is because eternal life is NOT about eternal life of our flesh that is made from earthly material matter. Instead, Paul showed that we must be 'changed' to bodies of incorruption which are eternal, and he called those the "spiritual body".

In 1 Pet.3 with the "spirits in prison", he was not talking about the angels that rebelled, for they have ALREADY been judged and sentenced along with Satan. Peter was talking about the souls of the dead in the heavenly prison that once were alive in the flesh on the earth back to the time of Noah's flood. Preaching The Gospel to those means to those which Salvation is available to, not to those who have already been judged and sentenced to perish like Satan and his angels, nor God's angels which are already with Him and serve Him.

1 Pet 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(KJV)

In that above Scripture Peter is making a clear and obvious distinction between men in the flesh vs. men that have died but continue to live according to God in the spirit. That is right in line with what Paul taught in 2 Cor.5 that if our flesh body were dissolved, we have another building of God not made with hands (not flesh), but eternal in the heavens (i.e., the spiritual body).

In John 3, this is also one of the matters our Lord Jesus was talking about. He clearly showed the difference with that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. Thus the real 'us' part is not our flesh body, for it's only a shell that our soul and spirit lives in while here on earth.

Why is understanding this important?

It's because if our soul and spirit does not continue to exist after death of our flesh body, it would mean what? It would mean 'we' then cease to exist, period. If our spirit part is only an animation from God in some great ocean of Spirit, and our spirit is dissolved back into that ocean, then it would mean our person, our individuality then ceases to exist. It would mean 'spiritual death'.

The concept of spiritual death, which is an idea taught in God's Word ultimately about the "second death" of Rev.20, is the death that Satan and his angels have already been assigned to. And Satan wants company to go with him into that death. That "second death" is not the idea of flesh death. The first death is the death of our flesh bodies. The second one is the destruction of one's soul with spirit. If you'll notice Satan and his angels do not have flesh bodies, never have, nor ever will, for that idea is nowhere written in God's Word. So what part of them goes into that "second death" in the "lake of fire" and is destroyed? Their soul with spirit.

So when you hear doctrines like Christ's Salvation depends on a flesh existence, or that God's Heavenly Abode is out in the material universe somewhere, or hiding within the cloud atmosphere, or that the idea of angels only means flesh messengers people on earth, etc., then you ought to well know where those ideas are coming from.

 

[Strat]

"Absent from the body,present with the lord"

Now let's see if somebody can take that hope away as well