SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

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Ritajanice

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You taught me the lost unregenerate alien sinner cannot have faith by hearing the gospel.
How can the unregenerate hear God?

He may be drawing the unregenerate to Jesus,etc,etc, Gods word says, without the Spirit we are none of His?

Faith is a gift from God?...are you saying it isn’t?

1 Corinthians 1:18
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

New Living Translation
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

English Standard Version
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Standard Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Literal Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is the power of God
 

Ritajanice

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BEFORE Pentecost, "the Promise to come" was declared of the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit to come to all repentant believers:
Yes, God brings all those he chose and predestined to become Born Again, he is the initiator of it all, the process that he uses to draw us to Jesus/ repentance/ Godly sorrow/ belief in Jesus...

When we have been Born Of The Spirit, we have the “ permanent indwelling” Holy Spirit, he also gives us the gift of Faith, a manifestation of the Spirit, of course the manifestation of Faith is planted into our heart, when we come Born Again of imperishable seed...that “ seed” is the Living word of God.

Many struggle understanding that Gods Spirit is Alive and Active?
 

Titus

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How can the unregenerate hear God?

He may be drawing the unregenerate to Jesus,etc,etc, Gods word says, without the Spirit we are none of His?

Faith is a gift from God?...are you saying it isn’t?

1 Corinthians 1:18
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

New Living Translation
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

English Standard Version
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Standard Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Literal Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is the power of God
No I'm not saying faith is NOT a gift from God.
I'm teaching how God Grant's faith is not by supernatural means today.
Now in the age of miracles folks got faith through supernatural experiences.
But today God Grant's His gift of faith through the word!!
He may be drawing the unregenerate to Jesus,etc,etc, Gods word says, without the Spirit we are none of His?
Without the Spirit we are none of His. Correct.

The calvinist view is the Spirit today must work on lost sinners by a direct supernatural operation of God.

I'm teaching that the Spirit works on the unregenerate to become believers in Christ through the word.

Just as Paul taught, Romans 10:17.

No need for the Spirit to work in a miraculous manner to bring us to Christ.
It is the Spirit that revealed the gospel. That is how the Spirit works on the alien sinners heart today.

THROUGH THE WORD, THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

1Corinthians 2:13,
- these things we also speak not in words which mans wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches comparing spiritual things with spiritual

All the revelation of the new testament was revealed through the Holy Spirit.
Paul says what is taught by the apostles and written down for our learning is the work of the Holy Spirit!!!

This is how the Spirit works faith in us today, through the living word!!!
Hebrews 4:12,
- for the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword piercing even to the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart

Romans 10:17,
- faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
 
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Ritajanice

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No I'm not saying faith is NOT a gift from God.
I'm teaching how God Grant's faith is not by supernatural means today.
Now in the age of miracles folks got faith through supernatural experiences.
But today God Grant's His gift of faith through the word!!

Without the Spirit we are none of His. Correct.

The calvinist view is the Spirit today must work on lost sinners by a direct supernatural operation of God.

I'm teaching that the Spirit works on the unregenerate to become believers in Christ through the word.

Just as Paul taught, Romans 10:17.

No need for the Spirit to work in a miraculous manner to bring us to Christ.
It is the Spirit that revealed the gospel. That is how the Spirit works on the alien sinners heart today.

THROUGH THE WORD, THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

1Corinthians 2:13,
- these things we also speak not in words which mans wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches comparing spiritual things with spiritual

All the revelation of the new testament was revealed through the Holy Spirit.
Paul says what is taught by the apostles and written down for our learning is the work of the Holy Spirit!!!

This is how the Spirit works faith in us today, through the living word!!!
Hebrews 4:12,
- for the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword piercing even to the division of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart

Romans 10:17,
- faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God

We need to be Born Again..are you Born Again?

Yes, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.....can only come from him, how can you hear the word of God, without heart revelation?

We hear when we are Born Again, because it’s not your will that you are Born Again, it’s Gods will.

We are Born Again of imperishable seed?
 
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Titus

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We need to be Born Again..are you Born Again
The only way we can be born again is through the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
If someone has been taught a false gospel, then they might believe they are born again but they are not.
Only way to know one is born again is by examining what the apostles taught and Jesus on salvation.

Many today claim they have been saved. by some religious/spiritual experience. But when their supposed born again experience is examined against the born again accounts of the new testament conversions.They do not adhere to the examples given of conversions in the Bible.

As an example folks claim they were saved by saying a sinners prayer.
Not one person in the new testament prayed a prayer to be saved.
Not one time did Jesus or His apostles preach the gospel of Jesus Christ towards salvation is to pray a prayer.

Others claim they had a strong feeling come over them and just knew it was the Holy Spirit saving them. That's called an emotional experience.
This also was never taught by Jesus or His apostles on how we are saved today.

Peter preached the gospel of Jesus Christ in Acts chapter 2.
Then he told the jews to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.

All those that obeyed the gospel that day were saved by God and added to His church, Acts 2:47.
If someone's account of their "born again" experience does not agree with what occurred by the apostles preaching. Then they never were saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel for IT is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION
 

Ritajanice

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The only way we can be born again is through the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
The only way we are Born Again is by the will of God.

He draws us to Jesus his way....so no...he does not say we are Born Again through the gospel...

We must be Born of the Spirit..not Born of the gospel.

We are Born Again through Jesus..no one can come to the Father except by the Son..

Those are your words.
 

Johann

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If you disagree with my belief that the Ephesians in Acts 19 only received Holy Spirit until after they were saved, then please let's discuss this one subject.
My apologies dear precious brother-and yes, I concur with you-as it stands written--

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I should have read the whole thread BEFORE posting-here is something I have found.

WHEN THE CHURCH BEGAN
STUDY OF THE BIBLICAL CHURCHES
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn
from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
Colossians 1:18
1. The Churches
a. Def. Church: God’s called out ones, congregation – made of saints (sanctified)
b. The two sides: both right, both wrong – dispensational and covenant

c. The issue: “Where are our instructions? What is our relationship to God?”

d. Col 2:1617 – 1) OT 2) things to come (NT) 3) But now – the body is of Christ

2. “Church in the Wilderness” Acts 7:38

a. Covenant theology says the church of today began with the saints of the OT

b. Who: Exo 4:22 –Israel the firstborn (Deut 33:4 – Jacob’s congregation)

i. Exodus 27:2021 – the tabernacle of the congregation of Israel

ii. Isaiah 2:23 – the house of the Lord/Jacob

c. What: A kingdom Exo 19:6; 34:10, 24; Deut 7:6; Deu 26:18; Isa 41:8

d. How: The blood of a lamb Exo 12:37

i. Baptism unto Moses – 1 Cor 10:12

3. “Church at Jerusalem” Acts 8:1
a. Mainstream Christianity says the church began with the New Testament

b. Who: Disciples and the little flock Matt 16:18 – I will build my church

i. Acts 2:4447 – The Lord added to the church daily in the temple

ii. Matt 21:43, Luke 12:32 kingdom given to “little flock” of Israel

c. What: Matt 6:10 – kingdom come; Mat 19:2728 (Acts 1:6)

i. Acts 2:36; 3:1821 – Jesus the Lord and Christ

ii. Matt 28:20; Acts 15:12; 21:20 – zealous of the law

iii. Heb 8:12 –tabernacle not made with hands (Rev 21:23)

iv. Hebrews 10:25; Hebrews 13:17 – law keeping

d. How: – Heb 9:1516; John 1:29 – the Lamb of God; Rev 13:8

i. Baptism with water and spirit Mark 1:4, Matt 3:11, Acts 2:38,

4. “Church, which is his Body” – Col 1:24

a. MidActs dispensationalists do not mix Israel into the church of this age

b. Who: Jews & Gentiles Gal 3:28; Col 3:11

i. 1 Cor 3:16 – ye are the temple of the Holy Ghost

ii. Eph 523 Christ is the head of the church

c. What: Col 2:17 – the body is of Christ
i. Eph 1:2223 – church which is his body
ii. Eph 2:6 – raised us up to sit in heavenly places
d. How: 1 Tim 2:56 – a ransom for all
i. Baptism – 1 Cor 12:1213, Romans 6:24, Col 2:1112
ii. It began with Israel’s fall – Rom 11:1113
iii. It began with Paul – 1 Tim 1:16; 1 Cor 3:10


Johann.
 

Titus

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....so no...he does not say we are Born Again through the gospel
1Corinthians 4:15,
- for though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel
 

Ritajanice

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1Corinthians 4:15,
- for though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel
How were you Fathered by God?

That’s what begotten means!?

Only a Born Again belongs to the Father, for they have the permanent in dwelling Holy Spirit?

Are you Born Again?...

We must be Born Again then we are begotten of God...?..that’s the Living rebirth?

We are none of His without the Spirit?

He’s our Father in Spirit?..because we have been Born of the Spirit?

We are connected to him via his Spirit?...Our spirit has been Born Again?
 
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Ritajanice

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I'm teaching how God Grant's faith is not by supernatural means today
Of course faith is given by supernatural means?

Born of the Spirit, supernatural means/ divine revelation?

That is biblical....Spirit gives birth to spirit?

We are begotten of God when we are Born Of The Spirit..

God is Spirit.....how can you become Born Of The Spirit?

What do you think Born of the Spirit means, if it’s not by the supernatural power of God.

His word is Alive and Active.
 
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Earburner

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Stop flattering yourself and stop being a silly false prophet, prophesying am a calvanist? Apparently, either the devil or your flesh put you up to this gibberish nonsense.

Am not attached to any denomination, but only the church of Christ of 'Sola Scriptural'. Where, need only two or three gathered in His name, He is in our midst.
Ditto...Amen!
 
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Ritajanice

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Stop flattering yourself and stop being a silly false prophet, prophesying am a calvanist? Apparently, either the devil or your flesh put you up to this gibberish nonsense.

Am not attached to any denomination, but only the church of Christ of 'Sola Scriptural'. Where, need only two or three gathered in His name, He is in our midst.
I get the same said to me, even though we stand on the word of God.

They can’t refute anything using scripture. So they use the John Calvin card...LOL.
 

Titus

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We must be Born Again then we are begotten of God...?..that’s the Living rebirth?
No friend, If we are born again then begotten of God,....
This is the same as saying we are born again then we are born again

Friend, begotten by the gospel as Paul said is to be born. In the context 1Corinthians 4:15.
Paul said begotten. Born of what? The gospel!!!
Friend Paul is not speaking of physical but spiritual.
Paul is speaking to adults.
Therefore begotten of the gospel is to be born again of the gospel.

Now I think I know what you mean.
You are saying, correct me if i misrepresent you, that's not my intention ever.
You are saying we must first be born again or regenerated so that we can believe have faith in the gospel that is read, preached, taught to us.
Is that what you believe?

If so no that is not what Paul said in 1Corinthians 4:15.
Paul said nothing about being born again before we believe the gospel.
Paul said we are born again or begotten BY the GOSPEL!!!!
To teach differently on this verse is to change what Paul taught!!!

Also, if it is true that one must first be born again in order to believe the gospel so one then has faith.
This also contradicts Paul in Romans 10:17,
- faith cometh by HEARING and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD

Our faith comes from hearing the word.
Paul says nothing about being born again in order to have faith in the word i.e. the gospel.

Remember I'm not teaching no Holy Spirit is involved in faith. The Holy Spirit works through the word.

Heres the real problem,
If I must first be born again to believe have faith in the gospel then guess what ?

I WAS SAVED BEFORE I HAD FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST !!!

That makes no sense friend.

Faith comes first salvation comes next. That is what the word of God teaches.

We are begotten of God when we are Born Of The Spirit..

God is Spirit.....how can you become Born Of The Spirit
Paul all ready taught you,
1Corinthians 4:15 born again, begotten of the gospel.
Do you not believe the word when it says the gospel is the power unto salvation?
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for IT, IT, IT, is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION

You are trying to be saved apart from the faith in the gospel.
You are trying to be saved born again, before you believe in the gospel by a miraculous direct encounter with the Holy Spirit.

Give me one conversion story in the new testament that someone was saved that way and I'll believe it!!!
All were saved in the new testament by first hearing the gospel, believing the gospel then obeying the gospel then Jesus saved them by His blood.
The Holy Spirit is not your Savior, Jesus is.

How we become born again of the Holy Spirit?

1Peter 1:22-23,
- since you have been purified(cleansed of your sins) your souls IN OBEYING THE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart
Having been born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD which lives and abides forever

Paul teaches we obey the truth which is the gospel through the Spirit.
As I already taught you, it is the gospel that the Holy Spirit works through or operates on all people today.

There can be no doubt this is Biblical truth as Paul says it right here in the above two verses!!

Now, Paul says clearly HOW we are born again in verse 23,
- born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible through the word of God

Born again through the word!!!

No one is born again before they hear the word and believe the word.
This is how the Holy Spirit works on our spirit to become born of the Spirit!!!

Paul taught it and I hope you will believe it.

No miracles today according to Paul, read 1Corinthians chapter 13.

God does not need to work a miracle so you can believe and be saved.
The gospel has tremendous power!!! It is the power unto salvation.

When one believes and obeys the gospel, then we recieve Gods grace and gain access to Jesus' shed blood that cleanses us from our sins, then we are born again.
It must all come about through the hearing of the gospel.
Romans 10:17.

Did you know you would not even know of the Holy Spirit if the word of God did not already reveal Him to you?
 
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Ritajanice

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No friend, If we are born again then begotten of God,....
This is the same as saying we are born again then we are born again
We are Born Again by the Spirit of God.....we are begotten of God once we are Born Again/ adopted into his Kingdom...that is a supernatural act that only God can do....you cannot make yourself Born of the Spirit.

How do you make your spirit Born Again?
Friend, begotten by the gospel as Paul said is to be born. In the context 1Corinthians 4:15.
Paul said begotten. Born of what? The gospel!!!
Friend Paul is not speaking of physical but spiritual.
Paul is speaking to adults.
Therefore begotten of the gospel is to be born again of the gospel.

We must be Born of the Spirit
..then we are begotten of God.....you can’t choose to be Born Again...?
Now I think I know what you mean.
You are saying, correct me if i misrepresent you, that's not my intention ever.
You are saying we must first be born again or regenerated so that we can believe have faith in the gospel that is read, preached, taught to us.
Is that what you believe?
I believe you are in the intellect..in your understanding.
If so no that is not what Paul said in 1Corinthians 4:15.
Paul said nothing about being born again before we believe the gospel.
Paul said we are born again or begotten BY the GOSPEL!!!!
To teach differently on this verse is to change what Paul taught!!!

Also, if it is true that one must first be born again in order to believe the gospel so one then has faith.
This also contradicts Paul in Romans 10:17,
- faith cometh by HEARING and hearing BY THE WORD OF GOD

Faith is a gift from God....there is no faith in human understanding.​

Bible, King James Version​


1 Corinthians


Previous Chapter

1Cor.12​

[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will

You do not hear of your own accord, you must be Born of the Spirit...that is a supernatural act that only God can do...you cannot read your way into becoming Born Again.
Our faith comes from hearing the word.
Paul says nothing about being born again in order to have faith in the word i.e. the gospel.

Remember I'm not teaching no Holy Spirit is involved in faith. The Holy Spirit works through the word.

God draws us to Jesus via his Living word..it’s a process, being Born of the Spirit is a supernatural act....you cannot read becoming Born Again, you cannot believe in your head either...we are Born Again ...by God, we receive heart revelation, “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “?
Heres the real problem,
If I must first be born again to believe have faith in the gospel then guess what ?

I WAS SAVED BEFORE I HAD FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST !!!
You are not saved, not until you have been Born Again of imperishable seed, then you are saved from eternal damnation.

We are reconciled back to God by the death and resurrection of Jesus....then we must be Born Again from Above as Gods word says, without the Spirit we are none of His?
That makes no sense friend.

Faith comes first salvation comes next. That is what the word of God teacheThis is all your opinion..nothing scriptural to back it up.
We are drawn to Jesus by God, God brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow/ we are brought to believe in Jesus, then we are Born Again and given faith by God.

You do not have God given faith before God has forgiven you of your sins?
You do not choose to believe to become Born Again, it’s not biblical,.
Paul all ready taught you,
1Corinthians 4:15 born again, begotten of the gospel.
Do you not believe the word when it says the gospel is the power unto salvation?
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for IT, IT, IT, is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION

You are trying to be saved apart from the faith in the gospel.
You are trying to be saved born again, before you believe in the gospel by a miraculous direct encounter with the Holy Spirit.

Give me one conversion story in the new testament that someone was saved that way and I'll believe it!!!
All were saved in the new testament by first hearing the gospel, believing the gospel then obeying the gospel then Jesus saved them by His blood.
The Holy Spirit is not your Savior, Jesus is.

How we become born again of the Holy Spirit?

We become Born Again as Jesus explains to Nicodemus...the Holy Spirit is a Living Spirit, he is like the wind every where..you can’t see him, but you certainly know when you are Born Again as he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...
1Peter 1:22-23,
- since you have been purified(cleansed of your sins) your souls IN OBEYING THE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart
Having been born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD which lives and abides forever
What is the incorruptible seed that we were Born Again of?
Paul teaches we obey the truth which is the gospel through the Spirit.
As I already taught you, it is the gospel that the Holy Spirit works through or operates on all people today.
You can’t teach me anything?...you aren’t the Spirit?

No one can come to the Father except through the Son?
 
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Ritajanice

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@Titus

Paul teaches we obey the truth which is the gospel through the Spirit.
As I already taught you, it is the gospel that the Holy Spirit works through or operates on all people today.



@Titus This is intellectual talk, nothing scriptural.?

Jesus explains to Nicodemus, that the Holy Spirit is like the wind, you can’t see him....do you understand that the Holy Spirit is a Living Spirit?

You said he wasn’t supernatural?

...................................................................

There can be no doubt this is Biblical truth as Paul says it right here in the above two verses!!

Now, Paul says clearly HOW we are born again in verse 23,
- born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible through the word of God

Born again through the word!!!





@Titus We are Born Again through the “ Living “ word...the Living word is the Spirit of God

No one is born again before they hear the word and believe the word.
This is how the Holy Spirit works on our spirit to become born of the Spirit!!!

Paul taught it and I hope you will believe it.

@Titus ....you cannot read your way into the Kingdom of God, you must be Born of the Spirit...that is a supernatural act of God.....not of you?

No miracles today according to Paul, read 1Corinthians chapter 13.

God does not need to work a miracle so you can believe and be saved.
The gospel has tremendous power!!! It is the power unto salvation.

@Titus ..nothing biblical here! Just your opinion?

When one believes and obeys the gospel, then we recieve Gods grace and gain access to Jesus' shed blood that cleanses us from our sins, then we are born again.
It must all come about through the hearing of the gospel.
Romans 10:17.


@Titus you do well to believe even the demons believed.....you must be Born of the Spirit then you are saved from eternal damnation...not before.

Being Born from above is a supernatural act of God?

Did you know you would not even know of the Holy Spirit if the word of God did not already reveal Him to you?

@Titus He reveals himself to our heart, when we become Born Again, he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children?


You lack spiritual understanding and knowledge....you think in the intellect...your posts are full of man made confusion.

And you do not read on how God makes us Born Again...the Holy Spirit is like the wind, he is everywhere...you can’t contain God, in your own intellect.....he is much bigger than you and I.

Please discuss scripture below?

Romans 8​

King James Version​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
 
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Fred J

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Your question is to vague. Give scripture for your questions.

I don't believe you could answer this question.
Neither can you, because you haven't a clue which incident am referring to.
You taught me the lost unregenerate alien sinner cannot have faith by hearing the gospel.
Then, it's on your own doing that you're saved and therefore you boast, bravo, the ditch is waiting for you.
You taught me faith must be given directly through the Holy Spirit operating on the individual.
That's a big fat lie, the more you engage with me, the more you expose your fallacy.
 
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Fred J

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Peter you said is already saved. Does he need supernatural guidance to give the correct answer?
Yes he needed and got it.
That depends on how much information Jesus has revealed to him.
Not entirely depends on Jesus.
In the new testament era that we live in. All can come to the knowledge that Jesus is Lord and Savior only through the revelation of the word, the Bible.
Yeah, like you apparently, who climbed over the fence to get in, and not through the gate.

Ha Ha!
 
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Fred J

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I get the same said to me, even though we stand on the word of God.

They can’t refute anything using scripture. So they use the John Calvin card...LOL.
Sad and pathetic denomination ones come from. The very thing they speak of us, is the very thing they are doing.

Thanks, that was comforting, peace be with you in Jesus name.
 
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Titus

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Sad and pathetic denomination ones come from. The very thing they speak of us, is the very thing they are doing.

Thanks, that was comforting, peace be with you in Jesus name.
Your last three posts to me, post # 517, 518, 519
These posts contain zero Scriptural refutation.
Stop wasting my time with your opinions.

1Peter 4:11,
- If anyone speaks let him speak as the oracles of God
 
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