Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The more you look into John Calvin's history the more you find how troubled and corrupt he was
Trump is dangerous - a Messianic Complex
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The more you look into John Calvin's history the more you find how troubled and corrupt he was
Hay man... what's with the posting in english? Whassup with that
Didn't you claim that we must all communicate in hebrew or we'll go to hell?
I personally come from an Evangelical Free background. And I sent my kids to a Calvin Christian private school.
Go figure.
They were seldom tortured.
Does this mean they didn't pass the plate around each service asking for money?
Some churches make a big deal out of making people fee like they have to give to attend
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The problem is I know people that attend Calvinist Churches and around here most of them are non-denominational or Baptist something....no Calvinist sign because they do not want to be honest up front. I know people that attend these churches and have never been told the doctrine of Calvinists.
Because they know that most people would have the good sense to leave.
Calvin school for kids…..oh my!
If I walked in and someone was telling my kid that he may already be damned to Hell and no way to escape and no way of knowing for sure if he was damned to Hell….it would go south real quick.
Your kids would have to be pretty dumb to fall for it and you would have to be pretty fearful to worry about it happening.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
First, the SBC, which is called the Southern Baptist Convention, is a group of churches, with varying beliefs among them, who pool resources to support Missions.
You know, missionaries? Pastors? Etc?
Some churches who follow reformed theology (not calvinist theology) are also Baptists. The very first Baptists followed reformed theology.
Just because the dispensationalists think they own the name Baptist, they don't.
The SBC will survive if reformed Baptist Churches want to give their money to help support the same missions.
But I have already pointed that out.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You are right.
But that is what Calvinists believe and what they are preaching to their chidren.
Fearful....no....But I have slapped the snot out of people for much less.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Debating Calvinism in its early days would be like sticking your head in a quagmire….there a lot of information but nothing conclusive.
There is enough to deal with, with modern Calvinists and Jehovah’s Witnesses that keep the intervention rescue services busy.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
There are dispensationalists who go to some of those SBC churches who don't know what the 1689 London Baptist Confession of faith is, and had no idea that there were churches who called themselves Baptists to this day who still hold to this confession and/or the theology contained within.
Until they made a 1689 Pastor the President of the SBC (Voddie Baucham).
Now their churches are being infiltrated with "Calvinists"... Hahaha
But I will add for the record, for the second time, if anyone doesn't know what words mean like "Particular" (placed in front of the word Baptist), or "1689" means, they can always inquire as to what doctrine the church holds to, or they can just inquire.
No one is hiding.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Still working hard to win friends and influence people, I see.
I wish I had your gift for self-entertainment.
.
Urok
New Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I would say I have an “unusual” sense of humor…..I have to, to put up with people that do not pay attention.
What we are talking about here is Christ’s name. If people put their thinking caps on they could know that Christ's mother gave him a Hebrew name. If they were educated they would know that places and people’s names had a tendency to keep their pronunciation, even in different languages. But to talk to your average person I have to have patience with that. I have enjoyed a life of education that most people did not have.
But the humor here is that, if they do not pay attention, I go ahead and let people paint themselves back into a corner labeled ignorance. Yes I find humor in it, sorry.
The fact is, that I have never said people are not saved because they do not use or know the true name of Christ…..it is the scriptures that say that….only one name can be called upon for salvation. Now most of the time the “Bible only” people will point out that the Word of God is true. But on this topic a lot think it is anything but that. Yes I find humor in that. And I am not Bible only, because I know that there has been things that the Holy Spirit has taught us along the way.
I have let you guys go along and paint yourself in a corner declaring that the name of God does not matter….not important. You might not want to tell Yeshua that on Judgment Day. LOL
But there were times in history that people did not know Christ’s name so not being their fault I am confident that Yeshua made allowances for that.
But now we know his name…..but why do people cling to a false name? Jesus is not an ancient name….the letter J came out in the 1400’s. So why do they cling to it, why do they defend a false name, even after they know the true name of Christ. There is actually a lot to be learnt here. There are a lot of topics like this…false beliefs that have been around a while and people, for whatever reason seem to believe that the false beliefs are the most important beliefs in Christianity. Sad because it is a corruption of Christianity. It is humorous that I am the only one here defending Christ's name.
The funny….you guys would not have painted yourself into that corner if you were paying attention. The fact is I believe that people can be save by having faith in the Son of God….whatever name they use, but then George is not any better than Jesus. But that is the point of salvation….The Christian life from there is a journey, preferably a walk with Christ….but our character can be the rudder on that journey. Is our character attracted to false beliefs, or do we seek the truth. Seek and you will find.
Rejecting the name of Christ, I wonder if that point is going to be a topic on Judgment Day. After knowing the truth and Christians preferring to use a false name, is Christ going to take offense to that? Is He going to take offense to people thinking His name is not important? The concept is illogical, a religion where the name of the God of the religion is rejected and not considered important.
"Well everybody else does it!" Remember what people say….If Billy jumps off the cliff, are you? History repeats itself…..
Because the same thing happened to God the Father's name. Thinking His name was not important they took God the Father’s name out of the Old Testament like 6,800 times….that took some effort. Why did they do that? How did they justify that? As it is now people are also rejecting Christ’s name. As it is now our Bibles do not have the names of God the Father or God the Son in them….why? Christian Bibles without the names of God the Father and God the Son in them…..And Christians just not thinking that God's name is that important! Did they do it to reduce the power of the Word of God? Who was behind it? Who would not want millions of Bible around the world with God’s name in it? Satan….Who would want people to reject Christ’s name? Satan.
It it such a strange thing that Christians should believe that the names of God the Father and God the Son have power and are important?
Best advise, do not reject Christ’s name. As it is there are Bibles called Sacred Name Bibles that have put their names in them. I have been putting their names on the pages of my Bibles for years.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good
What we are talking about here is Christ’s name. If people put their thinking caps on they could know that Christ's mother gave him a Hebrew name. If they were educated they would know that places and people’s names had a tendency to keep their pronunciation, even in different languages. But to talk to your average person I have to have patience with that. I have enjoyed a life of education that most people did not have.
But the humor here is that, if they do not pay attention, I go ahead and let people paint themselves back into a corner labeled ignorance. Yes I find humor in it, sorry.
The fact is, that I have never said people are not saved because they do not use or know the true name of Christ…..it is the scriptures that say that….only one name can be called upon for salvation. Now most of the time the “Bible only” people will point out that the Word of God is true. But on this topic a lot think it is anything but that. Yes I find humor in that. And I am not Bible only, because I know that there has been things that the Holy Spirit has taught us along the way.
I have let you guys go along and paint yourself in a corner declaring that the name of God does not matter….not important. You might not want to tell Yeshua that on Judgment Day. LOL
But there were times in history that people did not know Christ’s name so not being their fault I am confident that Yeshua made allowances for that.
But now we know his name…..but why do people cling to a false name? Jesus is not an ancient name….the letter J came out in the 1400’s. So why do they cling to it, why do they defend a false name, even after they know the true name of Christ. There is actually a lot to be learnt here. There are a lot of topics like this…false beliefs that have been around a while and people, for whatever reason seem to believe that the false beliefs are the most important beliefs in Christianity. Sad because it is a corruption of Christianity. It is humorous that I am the only one here defending Christ's name.
The funny….you guys would not have painted yourself into that corner if you were paying attention. The fact is I believe that people can be save by having faith in the Son of God….whatever name they use, but then George is not any better than Jesus. But that is the point of salvation….The Christian life from there is a journey, preferably a walk with Christ….but our character can be the rudder on that journey. Is our character attracted to false beliefs, or do we seek the truth. Seek and you will find.
Rejecting the name of Christ, I wonder if that point is going to be a topic on Judgment Day. After knowing the truth and Christians preferring to use a false name, is Christ going to take offense to that? Is He going to take offense to people thinking His name is not important? The concept is illogical, a religion where the name of the God of the religion is rejected and not considered important.
"Well everybody else does it!" Remember what people say….If Billy jumps off the cliff, are you? History repeats itself…..
Because the same thing happened to God the Father's name. Thinking His name was not important they took God the Father’s name out of the Old Testament like 6,800 times….that took some effort. Why did they do that? How did they justify that? As it is now people are also rejecting Christ’s name. As it is now our Bibles do not have the names of God the Father or God the Son in them….why? Christian Bibles without the names of God the Father and God the Son in them…..And Christians just not thinking that God's name is that important! Did they do it to reduce the power of the Word of God? Who was behind it? Who would not want millions of Bible around the world with God’s name in it? Satan….Who would want people to reject Christ’s name? Satan.
It it such a strange thing that Christians should believe that the names of God the Father and God the Son have power and are important?
Best advise, do not reject Christ’s name. As it is there are Bibles called Sacred Name Bibles that have put their names in them. I have been putting their names on the pages of my Bibles for years.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good
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Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
That is really dumb thinking if you think Calvinism is like that.
Calvinist's also believe this verse
I John 5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
And this one too
Romans 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Calvinism believes there are elect and non elect people, just like Peter wrote, for the saved that the elect have been chosen by God according to God's foreknowledge for salvation
1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
And that being elect they have assurance of their eternal salvation, as they are chosen by God to be saved and that from the beginning of time.
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Chosen from the beginning of time is right here. and it due to the great love God had for us, Paul writes of that great love towards US as the reason we believed in Christ in Ephesians 2, versus the others...
2 Thess 2
13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.
***************************************
the ones chosen in the above are in contrast to the ones who are not who are spoken of here
**************************************
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thess 2
13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.
***************************************
the ones chosen in the above are in contrast to the ones who are not who are spoken of here
**************************************
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Calvin school for kids…..oh my!
If I walked in and someone was telling my kid that he may already be damned to Hell and no way to escape and no way of knowing for sure if he was damned to Hell….it would go south real quick.
This is going to be fun! I am not talking about scriptures, I am talking about what Calvinists believe.
Do you deny that Calvinists believe that God has predestined for some to go to Heaven and some to go to Hell before the time of creation?
Do you deny that Calvinists believe that once God has predestined some one to go to Hell there is no escape?
That is exactly what the scriptures say.
You know that no Calvanist tells anyone they are going to hell as that is their eternal destiny and can do nothing about it.
They tell them the gospel, that if they believe in Christ they will be saved.
The things you are talking about are the things of God, His secret council, and He does whatever He pleases, and no one has the mind of God to be His counselor.
If someone dies unbelieving in Christ, then they go to hell, and there is no way out for them as they have passed out of this life.
That is no different belief than any other protestant denomination.
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