Trump is dangerous - a Messianic Complex
- Thread starter Arthur81
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You have to not believe what many scriptures say to not believe in being elect, as in chosen by God for salvation according to foreknowledge.
Sure are. Infact Peter and Paul says only the elect are saved and it is only for the elect that he works to get the elect saved.
Election is determined by God before a person is born and had done anything good or bad.
Romans 9
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.Paul wrote this
2 Timothy 2
10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the [a]elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
ONLY the ELECT will have faith
Titus 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
2 Timothy 2
10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the [a]elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
ONLY the ELECT will have faith
Titus 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
I'm not sure I want to worship a God who damns some to hell without them having ever been born and given a chance to choose him.
That is an unjust God and not a God that loves.
I guess may as well throw out John 3:16 and other scripture like right from the Bible. They don't mean a thing according to Calvinism.
More on the elect of God versus the non elect who God blinds...
Only the elect obtain salvation, the rest are blinded.
Romans 11
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Only the elect obtain salvation, the rest are blinded.
Romans 11
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Well now you will then just have to throw out Paul's and Peter's letters to the churches then.
John 3:16 simply says all who believe will be saved, as in anyone who believes.
BUT, THIS, it does not teach why any particular person DOES believe!
That is explained throughout scripture including Jesus in John 6.
All you're doing is making it harder for me to want to remain a Christian.
If our God has his favorites, we'll call them the elect, then he's not a God I want as my God.
This is why I can't believe that what you're saying is true and that you're interpretation of the scriptures is wrong.
God knows all things, and he also knows through all time everything He will do. He does things according to His own counsel and will.
And all of God's works were finished from the foundation of the world. So yeah, you cannot change what God has foreknown and purposed to do.
Isaiah 46
“Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
And all of God's works were finished from the foundation of the world. So yeah, you cannot change what God has foreknown and purposed to do.
Isaiah 46
“Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
Of course God loves some with his great love, that is why some He saves. But the non-elect don't have any feeling or love for God do they as they refuse to believe in Christ.
Why God loves like that, I don't know, but you are made in the image of God and also love some and not others.
Even your belief, and faith in Christ, God granted to you. If you are a believer, it is a gift.
Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Paul tells the Philippians God granted them their belief in Christ.
You must understand the whole human race is going to hell, every single one EXCEPT that God chose to have mercy and compassion on some to save them. God redeems some people from the pit of hell. And it is God's choice not our own who receives his mercy. He told that to Moses, and Paul says the same exact words as an example of those who get saved.
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
You must understand the whole human race is going to hell, every single one EXCEPT that God chose to have mercy and compassion on some to save them. God redeems some people from the pit of hell. And it is God's choice not our own who receives his mercy. He told that to Moses, and Paul says the same exact words as an example of those who get saved.
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Romans 9
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
And more about mercy here regarding our being born again, regenerated and saved. According to His mercy for us is why we are saved.
That was what God poured out on US and not the others who are not saved. God redeems your life from the pit. (destiny of hell), according to HIS mercy and compassion for you. And that is why you believed in Christ.
Titus 3
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
That was what God poured out on US and not the others who are not saved. God redeems your life from the pit. (destiny of hell), according to HIS mercy and compassion for you. And that is why you believed in Christ.
Titus 3
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There is a huge difference between what Calvinists believe and what most Protestants believe. And Calvinism is a false belief.
Again.....
Do you deny that Calvinists believe that God has predestined for some to go to Heaven and some to go to Hell before the time of creation?
Do you deny that Calvinists believe that once God has predestined some one to go to Hell there is no escape?
I let scripture speak for itself, unencumbered with man's philosophies.
You go ahead and believe whatever you wish.
KJ21
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the Word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
ASV
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
AMP
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying [praising and giving thanks for] the word of the Lord; and all those who had been appointed (designated, ordained) to eternal life [by God] believed [in Jesus as the Christ and their Savior].
AMPC
And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).
BRG
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
CSB
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and honored the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
CEB
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and honored the Lord’s word. Everyone who was appointed for eternal life believed,
CJB
The Gentiles were very happy to hear this. They honored the message about the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life came to trust.
CEV
This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.
DARBY
And [those of] the nations, hearing it, rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and believed, as many as were ordained to eternal life.
DLNT
And the Gentiles, having heard it, were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. And all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
DRA
And the Gentiles hearing it, were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to life everlasting, believed.
ERV
When the non-Jewish people heard Paul say this, they were happy. They gave honor to the message of the Lord, and many of them believed it. These were the ones chosen to have eternal life.
EASY
When the Gentiles there heard this, they were very happy. They thanked God for the message about the Lord Jesus. Many people believed in Jesus. They were the people that God had chosen to have true life with him.
EHV
When the Gentiles heard this, they were rejoicing and praising the word of the Lord. All who had been appointed for eternal life believed.
ESV
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
ESVUK
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
EXB
When the Gentiles heard Paul say this, they ·were happy [rejoiced] and ·gave honor to [praised] the ·message [word] of the Lord. And the people who were ·chosen [destined; appointed] to have life forever ·believed the message [L believed].
GNV
And when the Gentiles heard it, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained unto eternal life, believed.
GW
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord’s word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.
GNT
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the Lord's message; and those who had been chosen for eternal life became believers.
HCSB
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the message of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
ICB
When the non-Jewish people heard Paul say this, they were happy. They gave honor to the message of the Lord. And many of the people believed the message. They were the ones chosen to have life forever.
ISV
When the gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Meanwhile, all who had been destined to eternal life believed,
Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
When Calvinists infiltrate churches this is the rhetoric they use, just as Scott is saying here...
“I let scripture speak for itself, unencumbered with man's philosophies. You go ahead and believe whatever you wish.”
This is exactly how cult leaders deceive people. I have a scripture for you….now believe my lie. Look at this carefully and understand this is how they will approach you….Not tell you what they believe but camouflage and distract you from the truth with scripture….effectively using the scripture against you. If you ask them questions they will give you a scripture…..Common method of any cult.
Now most Calvinists do not practice cult like control and are nowhere near as cult like as the Jehovah’s Witnesses but the religion can still tear families apart.
Last edited:
Nice job cherry picking!
You forgot to include these scriptures that prove limited atonement is false doctrine... and that God is not evil.
Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Here's the Trump campaign's assessment of Nikki's efforts>>>
"Broken down, out of ideas, out of gas, and completely outperformed by every measure, by Donald Trump,"
What would be an acceptable margin of loss for a former UN Ambassador, and former Governor in her own State?
How much can she lose by and pretend it isn't humiliating?
"Broken down, out of ideas, out of gas, and completely outperformed by every measure, by Donald Trump,"
What would be an acceptable margin of loss for a former UN Ambassador, and former Governor in her own State?
How much can she lose by and pretend it isn't humiliating?
On of the ear marks of a nation that is under God's judgement is... bad leaders.
If they don't whack Trump and he somehow gets re-elected, that's not going to change.
He's a poor advocate for innocent babies being murdered and he's a very strong advocate for sexual perversion... so some of his secular government policies may be better than the democrats, he would still be a leader taking this nation away from good morality just like the democrats are.
It's sad that so many claiming to be Christian are all worked up
about Trump as though he the savior of the nation or something.
If they don't whack Trump and he somehow gets re-elected, that's not going to change.
He's a poor advocate for innocent babies being murdered and he's a very strong advocate for sexual perversion... so some of his secular government policies may be better than the democrats, he would still be a leader taking this nation away from good morality just like the democrats are.
It's sad that so many claiming to be Christian are all worked up
about Trump as though he the savior of the nation or something.
Similar threads
- Locked
