There is no spiritual gift called "the gift of tongues".

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The Learner

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Would you like to explain what you mean by gibberish, and is there supporting Scripture?

Indeed, it's not a language heard of here on earth, because they are Heavenly tongues of angels. (1Corinthians13:1)

Probably, they are the true tongues of angels, but these churches are conducting this gift as workers of iniquity/lawlessness, violating the Word of GOD. (1Corinthians chapter12)

Apparently, is true it is not the tongues imparted in the day of Pentecost. The one imparted in the day of Pentecost, the tongues of men, is to fulfill the commission of the Lord given to His chosen disciples, 'to make disciple of all nation'.

The one imparted to the church, the gathering of saints, are the tongues of angels, 'for the edification of the body of every believer'., besides the equal gift of prophesying.
The Greek grammar of 1Corinthians13:1, rules out the possibility of speaking the language of Angels. It is a If this is possible.
1Corinthians12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
The answer is No to each question.
 
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The Learner

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I will reveal your error of thinking, which ideas are actually outside... the actual Acts 2 Scripture.

Fred J said:
1. "... it's not a language heard of here on earth, because they are Heavenly tongues of angels."

ANS: In 1 Cor.12:28 with "diversities of tongues", Apostle Paul was talking about known languages of the world. The true cloven tongue of Pentecost is only about a 'particular tongue' which goes out... as many languages of the world. It is not really a 'mystery tongue' either, because it is about the one tongue that all nations spoke prior to the Babel event of Genesis 11.


2. Fred J said:
"Probably, they are the true tongues of angels,..."

ANS: Paul was only giving a hypothetical example in 1 Cor.13:1 when pointing to an idea like, "... speak with the tongues of men and of angels." He was simply comparing having the ability involving all mysteries would mean nothing if one does not have charity (love). He is not declaring there is such a thing as "tongues of angels".


3. Fred J said:
"The one imparted in the day of Pentecost, the tongues of men, is to fulfill the commission of the Lord given to His chosen disciples, 'to make disciple of all nation'."

ANS: You are still trying to compare the 'cloven tongue' of Pentecost with an assumed... angelic tongue which God's Word does not link to. Once again, go back to Genesis 10 & 11 and study about the one tongue all nations once spoke, and then see Zephaniah 3 where God said He will in the future return all peoples back to speaking that one tongue so that all peoples may call on Him with one consent (i.e., accord).

The main event, or purpose, for the cloven tongue of Pentecost will be at the very END of this world when some of Christ's elect will be delivered up at the end of the "great tribulation", and they will speak that 'cloven tongue' by The Holy Spirit... to the whole... world, giving a Testimony for Christ against the beast. Jesus told you about that for the end in the Mark 13 Chapter. When Apostle Peter, on Pentecost, quoted from Joel 2, the manifesting of the 'cloven tongue' for the time of "great tribulation" at the end is what that is about.

When that prophesied event at the END of this world happens, with some of Christ's elect delivered up to give that Testimony against the beast, with God speaking through them using the 'cloven tongue', it is going to really tick off Satan and his host, and THAT... is when he will determine to destroy ALL of God's people off this earth, once and for all. THAT... is when the armies out of the northern quarters of Ezekiel 38 will come upon BOTH Israels, the Israel (ten tribes) in the West, and the Israel (Judah, Jews) in the middle east, and Christ will step in to stop it with His army of Rev.19.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
 
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The Learner

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Am not being misled nor am staying deceived, least you should be wise in your own conceit and misjudge immaturely.

The tongues that fell on the 12 disciples in the day of Pentecost, were the tongues of men. As the Gospel was proclaimed from the upper room terrace. Those who heard these Galileans, heard them ministering the Gospel in their own mother tongue. The others who did not understand these tongues, thought they were drunk at the early hours of the day. And them continuing, around 3,000 of them were saved that day.

The tongues that were spoken of in 1Corinthians chapter 14, are the Heavenly tongues of angels, who worship GOD day and night in Heaven. This tongues are not for proclaiming nor teaching the Gospel, but rather the other gift inline, 'prophesying' is. in gathering of saints. These are for interceding in the spirit with GOD in Heaven, from earth. This gift of tongues with interpretation, is for the edification of the bodies of believers/church, where at the end together they declare, 'Amen'.

That's why Apostle Paul stated that, those who speak in these tongues, without interpretation, are to remain in silent utterance, between them and GOD. Those who utter these tongues with interpretation, should do it 3 person at a time, while the others take turns. He claim to be able to speak in divers of tongues more than others.

1Corinthians chapter13; He says what's the point of possessing all these gifts of the Spirit, yet have no charity. 1Corinthians chapter14; 'Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.' Use these gifts in charity, not for one's gain alone, but for all in church to gain. For there are 2 best gifts could be used in charity that everyone in church will gain. Wherefore, tongues of angels with interpretation interceding with GOD, 'edifies' the church, and prophesying 'builds up' the church.

If you can't distinguish between both, then i rest my case, tq
Two Grand Slams 1707529668142.png
 

The Learner

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I will reveal your error of thinking, which ideas are actually outside... the actual Acts 2 Scripture.

Fred J said:
1. "... it's not a language heard of here on earth, because they are Heavenly tongues of angels."

ANS: In 1 Cor.12:28 with "diversities of tongues", Apostle Paul was talking about known languages of the world. The true cloven tongue of Pentecost is only about a 'particular tongue' which goes out... as many languages of the world. It is not really a 'mystery tongue' either, because it is about the one tongue that all nations spoke prior to the Babel event of Genesis 11.


2. Fred J said:
"Probably, they are the true tongues of angels,..."

ANS: Paul was only giving a hypothetical example in 1 Cor.13:1 when pointing to an idea like, "... speak with the tongues of men and of angels." He was simply comparing having the ability involving all mysteries would mean nothing if one does not have charity (love). He is not declaring there is such a thing as "tongues of angels".


3. Fred J said:
"The one imparted in the day of Pentecost, the tongues of men, is to fulfill the commission of the Lord given to His chosen disciples, 'to make disciple of all nation'."

ANS: You are still trying to compare the 'cloven tongue' of Pentecost with an assumed... angelic tongue which God's Word does not link to. Once again, go back to Genesis 10 & 11 and study about the one tongue all nations once spoke, and then see Zephaniah 3 where God said He will in the future return all peoples back to speaking that one tongue so that all peoples may call on Him with one consent (i.e., accord).

The main event, or purpose, for the cloven tongue of Pentecost will be at the very END of this world when some of Christ's elect will be delivered up at the end of the "great tribulation", and they will speak that 'cloven tongue' by The Holy Spirit... to the whole... world, giving a Testimony for Christ against the beast. Jesus told you about that for the end in the Mark 13 Chapter. When Apostle Peter, on Pentecost, quoted from Joel 2, the manifesting of the 'cloven tongue' for the time of "great tribulation" at the end is what that is about.

When that prophesied event at the END of this world happens, with some of Christ's elect delivered up to give that Testimony against the beast, with God speaking through them using the 'cloven tongue', it is going to really tick off Satan and his host, and THAT... is when he will determine to destroy ALL of God's people off this earth, once and for all. THAT... is when the armies out of the northern quarters of Ezekiel 38 will come upon BOTH Israels, the Israel (ten tribes) in the West, and the Israel (Judah, Jews) in the middle east, and Christ will step in to stop it with His army of Rev.19.

How I Learned to Pray in Tongues​

"Was that just me, “priming the pump”? Perhaps. But I kept coming back to that every few days and, after a while, there began to be something of a flow to those syllables/words that was not coming from my conscious mind. I wasn’t quite sure what to make of it. For a while I would ask, “Is that You, Lord, or is that me?” I went on for months like that, wondering, but after a while I began to relax about it — whatever it was, I was giving it to God."

Was posted online, I lost the link
 

The Learner

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One of my pet peeves is Christians that do NOT speak in tongues wanting to instruct those who DO speak in tongues about what it is and how it should be done. The OP for this topic is a good example. Beginning with this ignorant and condemnatory gem:

"There is, unfortunately, a rather common misconception among professing Christians, of a supposed spiritual gift called “the gift of tongues” in the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. When the truth of the Word of God is presented unto such people, many of them will shut their ears, cast the truth behind their backs, and judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life."

/
1 Corinthians 14:27-28

1 Corinthians 14:27-28 New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
 

The Learner

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I once, visited a pentecostal church, and many were cursing God in a language I know.
 

The Learner

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Hebrew was one of my first languages. I often hear people say they heard Hebrew spoken in a service I was at. I tell them, I know Hebrew and no one spoke it.
 

Truthnightmare

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If I was to take a person that claimed they spoke in tongues.

Then take 3 people who claim they can interpret tongues, and have the 3 people write on a piece of paper what the person speaking in tongues said..

You would get 3 different interpretations.

yrndidpsbshshxbdkwbdnsbshsjdbfjdidjdjdidhayCafweahdpdodhdbsisbsj

Did I just type in tongues?
 
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St. SteVen

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- Why would there be a need for the spiritual gift of the interpretation of tongues?
Because I don’t speak Japanese, so if I go preach in Japan I need an interpreter.
What?
That has NOTHING to do with the interpretation of the Holy Spirit manifestation of tongues.
You are talking about basic language translation. That is NOT a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Anyone who speaks both languages can accomplish that. Nothing spiritual about it.

/
 

The Learner

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An experiment anyone can do is. take a tape of someone giving instruction in a non-biblical topic. Play for a room of those who claim to have the gift of interpretation. No one has ever come close to the correct meaning played on a tape or cd.
 

St. SteVen

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1 Corinthians 14:27-28 New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
Another gem. - LOL

One of my pet peeves is Christians that do NOT speak in tongues wanting to instruct those who DO speak in tongues about what it is and how it should be done. Your post is a good example.

This scripture is speaking about the two or three that are addressing the WHOLE congregation, not the others who are speaking their personal prayer language in worship.

/
 

St. SteVen

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If I was to take a person that claimed they spoke in tongues.

Then take 3 people who claim they can interpret tongues, and have the 3 people write on a piece of paper what the person speaking in tongues said..

You would get 3 different interpretations.
That's not how it works. Your ignorance and inexperience is leading you to wrong conclusions.
Interpretation works the same way prophecy works. Do you understand how prophecy works?

/ cc: @Hillsage
 
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St. SteVen

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An experiment anyone can do is. take a tape of someone giving instruction in a non-biblical topic. Play for a room of those who claim to have the gift of interpretation. No one has ever come close to the correct meaning played on a tape or cd.
That's not how it works. Your ignorance and inexperience is leading you to wrong conclusions.
Interpretation works the same way prophecy works. Do you understand how prophecy works?

/
 
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Truthnightmare

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What?
That has NOTHING to do with the interpretation of the Holy Spirit manifestation of tongues.
You are talking about basic language translation. That is NOT a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Anyone who speaks both languages can accomplish that. Nothing spiritual about it.

/
The ability to learn another language and then use that language to preach to a different people is a gift from God.

Here is you error…

There are actually three biblical lists of the “gifts of the Spirit,” also known as spiritual gifts. The three main passages describing the spiritual gifts are Romans 12:6–8; 1 Corinthians 12:4–11; and 1 Corinthians 12:28. We could also include Ephesians 4:11, but that is a list of offices within the church, not spiritual gifts, per se. The spiritual gifts identified in Romans 12 are prophesying, serving, teaching, encouraging, giving, leadership, and mercy. The list in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11 includes the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues. The list in 1 Corinthians 12:28 includes healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. A brief description of each gift follows:

There are many gifts and I challenge you on your own statement..

Put simply, a polyglot is someone who speaks multiple languages. How many is 'many'? Well, the most languages spoken by one person is 58 – a record that was held by Ziad Fazahin the Guinness Book of World Records in 1998.

Now I want you to try and learn 58 languages since you say it’s not a gift… and when you fail when can discuss why you were not blessed with the ability to do so.

Every gift of the spirit is not healing the blind, some gifts are simple, like mercy as stated in Romans.
 
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The Learner

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That's not how it works. Your ignorance and inexperience is leading you to wrong conclusions.
Interpretation works the same way prophecy works. Do you understand how prophecy works?

/
Yes I do, God used me to interpret languages I did not know in NAM. Others who knew both languages were amazed at how actrate at what I said. So, the test is vaild. Like Daniel who told the King what his dream was and its meaning. God can do the same thing with languages. He also, used me to witness to Muslim Pilots at Lowery AFB in their own langage. To those who were there heard us both speaking their language. While I understood them in English.
 

Truthnightmare

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- Why did the Apostle Paul prefer prophecy over tongues in a worship gathering? See 1 Cor. 14

/
He told us why…

For time sake I will post this from TSO website..

I Corinthians 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

Remember from the last chapter we studied, "charity" is "love". If you don't have love in your heart, then you don't have anything. Love brings honest and hope, and it endureth all things in our caring for our people. Paul urges us to desire the spiritual gifts or things.

Lets go to the Strong's Greek dictionary #4395 to understand what Paul is saying about "prophesy". "propheteuo, prof-ate-yoo'-o; from 4396, to fortell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office:"

Did you get the meaning of this word "prophecy"? "to speak under inspiration", and to "fortell events" of prophecy that God has revealed to the prophets of old that are written down in His Word. It is to always speak under the divine guidance from the Word of God. It is to use your gift of God as a teacher of Gods Word, not to jabber from your own mind, but to reveal God's Word to others exactly as it is written from the manuscripts.

There is going to be a time in the future when Act 2 will come, and men and woman alike will speak as the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Peter said that this is the time that Joel the prophet spoke of in Joel 2:28-32 when both men and women shall prophecy.

Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see vision:"

Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit."

The book of Joel is prophesy of that time when Satan and his locust army of fallen angels will be cast onto the earth, for the time of the great deception. So this time of prophesying will come while they are here deceiving mankind. After that Locust army of fallen angels has passed, then prophesying will take place. Many clergy say today, "woman can't prophesy", however God says even the daughters will prophesy. This writing then, is written to those living in the final generation that is on earth just prior to the coming of the Lord, during that generation of "the parable of the fig tree". That generation started when the Jews [brother Judah with the Kenites] returned to reestablish their homeland and reclaim Jerusalem. That generation is now, and you are living in that generation. The one world system of the end times is here and now, and they control of all parts of your life is through their agencies or ten horns of power that flow from the United Nations.

Joel 2:30 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke."

Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call."

The point that we should consider here is that we should judge no one, because this doesn't have to be a prophecy as most people consider "prophecy". Prophecy to foretell the future is only one of the parts, but simply to teach the Word of God under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit is also a form of the word "prophecy". So though love is essential to our Christian life, prophesy is another of the top gifts.

I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown]tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

"Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired)."

"Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about.

When we try to study the Bible for the truths within its pages, it is a must to have some reference to the original languages of Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek for that is the tongue or language that God's Word was written in. Translators have taken those foreign languages and tried to relate their meanings in English so that the common man could read the Word of God within his own home. This is why when we study the Word for ourselves is it important to have the Strong's numbered concordance and Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek numbered dictionaries right along with it so that we can understand exactly what God intended us to know. An example of this is above in the word, "tongues"; "glossa" in the Greek, and in the true translation "languages" in the English.
 
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Truthnightmare

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That's not how it works. Your ignorance and inexperience is leading you to wrong conclusions.
Interpretation works the same way prophecy works. Do you understand how prophecy works?

/ cc: @Hillsage
So I’m ignorant…. So what are you suppose to do now that you have deemed me ignorant.

1 Corinthians 14:38
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant

I guess you should let me be ignorant….

Inexperience? That can be said of anyone, and although experience is a great teacher.. I guarantee that whatever field you feel you have experience in I can find someone who is less experienced that will be better than you.

How experienced was David at battle when he killed Goliath?
 
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