Did Jesus claim to be God?

[JohnD]

Yes, it is important.....if Jesus was equally God, why could he not come in his own name?

This was so wordy I had to break it down in two.

PART A:

Jesus is equal with the Father in Spirit. But the Father has authority over all (including over Jesus and the Holy Spirit).

God the Word is clearly God (John 1:1-2). God the Word humbled himself to become also human (John 1:14) which he did without relinquishing his deity. In Philippians 2:6 morphe theos huparchon appears in the original Greek stating that he became a man while never ceasing to be God.

God the Word was sent into the world by the Father. That in itself is an executive order of the Father.

In that humility was Jesus' advent in the name of the Father.

Why was acceptance of the Father’s name held as of higher importance than Christ’s, if they were equally “God”?

The humility of Christ in his submission to the Father.

A “kinsman” would have to be 100% mortal human.....Can the Almighty Sovereign Lord of the Universe become like the fleas on a dog in order to have kinship with the other fleas, or even the dog?

You pose rabbit trail suppositions.

I will say in his body Jesus was and is 100% human while in his Spirit he is 100% God the Word.

David said we are as “grasshoppers” down here on this earth.....do we imagine for one moment that there would ever be a time when God has not anticipated what he needed to do in advance of any situation that might arise as the consequence of his free willed children’s actions?

Yahweh God has an entire family of angels in heaven who serve him constantly in various capacities and rank....a King who has many servants needs to do nothing himself, but command those who are in his service to act in his behalf.

Many would be surprised to hear that Jesus is called both a “holy servant” of his God as well as an ”apostle”.....( Acts 4:27, 30; Heb 3:1)
Can God be his own servant?
Can God be his own apostle?
What about his own High Priest? Since these are all avenues of service TO God, doesn’t it seem strange that an omniscient God would put himself in a position where he was forced to serve himself? It’s nonsense!

You apparently disbelieve in the multiple individuals in the Godhead. That simply fact logically answers every question you asked.

Only another mortal could be used to rectify the situation that Adam created for his children. Mortal humans sinned, but the entire responsibility for the fall was place squarely on the shoulders of the man. (Rom 5:12) So the redeemer had to be the exact equivalent of that man in order to pay the price of redemption. Jesus is called “the last Adam” for that reason. (1 Cor 15:45)

Nope. You are wrong. There's nothing that says God in human flesh cannot qualify or accomplish salvation.

The immortal God was ‘overqualified’ for the task.....so he sent his most trusted “servant” to fulfill the requirement and redeem the now condemned human race. The servant did so willingly, out of love.....love for his God, and also for mankind whom he had a hand in bringing to life.

Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ← morphe theos huparchon (never ceasing to be God) in the Greek
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Do you speak archaic English at home? When people of other nations who do not speak English, have translations of the Bible in their own tongue, do you believe it is written in a dead language? Would people have to learn another language in order to read it with understanding?

The KJV has proven to be effective enough to answer all your objections.

Losing the old KJV would be a good start for anyone who finds it confusing and a stumbling block to understanding......what is a translation for, after all? Why were the disciples able to speak in the languages of the Jews who came to Jerusalem for the Festival of Pentecost, from foreign lands? (Acts 2:5-11)
Our mother tongue is the one that speaks to the heart.....it’s the one that makes the most sense....but only if it is comprehensible. The KJV is a dinosaur.

The passage of scripture you quoted and the parts you highlighted do not say what you imagine them to say....all are pointing to the superiority of the Father and the son as his representative. The son is his Father’s willing servant, “sent” by him to recover what Adam threw away for his children.

Let's go over some Christian basics here:

God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4) but the one God consists of three individuals who are the one God:

God with God:

John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Who God was with:

1 John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

And:

Genesis 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

All three together at the same time with one another.

Also note that God the Word became a man:

John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14 (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God the Word is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning:

John 1:3 (KJV)
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

This also shows us that Jesus is the LORD YHVH.

 

[JohnD]

PART B:

If we want everlasting life, we have to “know the only true God” AND “the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. (John 17:3) There is no mention of the holy spirit there.....
Those who accept Christendom’s version of God, do not know him at all.

No. Those who follow cult teachings are as ignorant of God as any unbeliever.

LOL...see what is plainly written.....The Father “sent” Jesus and foretold his appearance long in advance of his human birth.
John 1:18 confirms what Jesus said.....
“No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.”
If “no man has seen God at any time”, then Jesus cannot be God because literally thousands of people saw him and heard him.

Colossians 1:13–15 (KJV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Why does one part of God need authority from his equal?
Matt 28:18 tells us that “ALL AUTHORITY” was “given” to the son “in heaven and on earth”....what a strange thing to say if he is God already in a different form. (This was after his resurrection.)

He is God and remains God in his Spirit.

Do you see the way you manipulated scripture there to assume something it does not say.....?
Where will I find “God incarnate lone Creator” mentioned anywhere in the Bible?

From what I gather of your ignorance of the scriptures you are a cultist.

How does an infinite, eternal being have a “beginning”?

Micah 5:2 states that his origins are from eternity past (meaning no beginning). Only in his flesh is there a beginning.

The role of the Father, son and holy spirit do not make them “one godhead”..... it makes them separate parts of God’s purpose in creating man in the first place. The son is “the beginning of God’s creation” (Rev 3:14)

The Son (Jesus incarnation) is the firstborn over creation in prominence.

as he himself testifies.....he was used by the Father as his agency in creation...the one “through” whom creation was made. ( Col 1:15-17)
The holy spirit is God’s infinite power used to create the raw materials of creation but leaving the creation itself to his son’s discretion, working in company with his Father as the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26. (Prov 8:30-32) God’s “Master Workman”.

The Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3–4 (KJV)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

He is a person (individual):

Acts 13:2 (KJV)
2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Again, your ignorance and misinterpretation of scripture is appalling.

“God with God”.......that is never mentioned.....not even hinted at. You have been sold a very ancient lie.....and one that is a clear breach of the first and most of important Commandment......to put another “god” in the Father’s place. (Exodus 20:3) Christendom has put two other gods in the Father’s place.....it is blasphemy IMO.

John 1:1-2 God with God

1 John 1:1-2 the Word (that eternal life) was with the Father...

You need to put down the extrabiblical writings of the cult you subscribe to and read the Bible itself for a change.

 

[JohnD]

Hebrews 10:5 states that the Father prepared (created a body for the preincarnate Jesus) and Hebrews 1:5 clearly states that Jesus was not a son before the incarnation nor was the Father a father before the incarnation.

"He will be..." and "I shall be..."

 

[Peterlag]

Yes, it is important.....if Jesus was equally God, why could he not come in his own name?
Why was acceptance of the Father’s name held as of higher importance that Christ’s, if they were equally “God”?

A “kinsman” would have to be 100% mortal human.....Can the Almighty Sovereign Lord of the Universe become like the fleas on a dog in order to have kinship with the other fleas, or even the dog?

David said we are as “grasshoppers” down here on this earth.....do we imagine for one moment that there would ever be a time when God has not anticipated what he needed to do in advance of any situation that might arise as the consequence of his free willed children’s actions?

Yahweh God has an entire family of angels in heaven who serve him constantly in various capacities and rank....a King who has many servants needs to do nothing himself, but command those who are in his service to act in his behalf.

Many would be surprised to hear that Jesus is called both a “holy servant” of his God as well as an ”apostle”.....( Acts 4:27, 30; Heb 3:1)
Can God be his own servant?
Can God be his own apostle?
What about his own High Priest? Since these are all avenues of service TO God, doesn’t it seem strange that an omniscient God would put himself in a position where he was forced to serve himself? It’s nonsense!

Only another mortal could be used to rectify the situation that Adam created for his children. Mortal humans sinned, but the entire responsibility for the fall was place squarely on the shoulders of the man. (Rom 5:12) So the redeemer had to be the exact equivalent of that man in order to pay the price of redemption. Jesus is called “the last Adam” for that reason. (1 Cor 15:45)

The immortal God was ‘overqualified’ for the task.....so he sent his most trusted “servant” to fulfill the requirement and redeem the now condemned human race. The servant did so willingly, out of love.....love for his God, and also for mankind whom he had a hand in bringing to life.


Do you speak archaic English at home? When people of other nations who do not speak English, have translations of the Bible in their own tongue, do you believe it is written in a dead language? Would people have to learn another language in order to read it with understanding?

Losing the old KJV would be a good start for anyone who finds it confusing and a stumbling block to understanding......what is a translation for, after all? Why were the disciples able to speak in the languages of the Jews who came to Jerusalem for the Festival of Pentecost, from foreign lands? (Acts 2:5-11)
Our mother tongue is the one that speaks to the heart.....it’s the one that makes the most sense....but only if it is comprehensible. The KJV is a dinosaur.

The passage of scripture you quoted and the parts you highlighted do not say what you imagine them to say....all are pointing to the superiority of the Father and the son as his representative. The son is his Father’s willing servant, “sent” by him to recover what Adam threw away for his children.

If we want everlasting life, we have to “know the only true God” AND “the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. (John 17:3) There is no mention of the holy spirit there.....
Those who accept Christendom’s version of God, do not know him at all.

LOL...see what is plainly written.....The Father “sent” Jesus and foretold his appearance long in advance of his human birth.
John 1:18 confirms what Jesus said.....
“No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.”
If “no man has seen God at any time”, then Jesus cannot be God because literally thousands of people saw him and heard him.

Why does one part of God need authority from his equal?
Matt 28:18 tells us that “ALL AUTHORITY” was “given” to the son “in heaven and on earth”....what a strange thing to say if he is God already in a different form. (This was after his resurrection.)

Do you see the way you manipulated scripture there to assume something it does not say.....?
Where will I find “God incarnate lone Creator” mentioned anywhere in the Bible?

How does an infinite, eternal being have a “beginning”?
The role of the Father, son and holy spirit do not make them “one godhead”..... it makes them separate parts of God’s purpose in creating man in the first place. The son is “the beginning of God’s creation” (Rev 3:14) as he himself testifies.....he was used by the Father as his agency in creation...the one “through” whom creation was made. ( Col 1:15-17)
The holy spirit is God’s infinite power used to create the raw materials of creation but leaving the creation itself to his son’s discretion, working in company with his Father as the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26. (Prov 8:30-32) God’s “Master Workman”.

“God with God”.......that is never mentioned.....not even hinted at. You have been sold a very ancient lie.....and one that is a clear breach of the first and most of important Commandment......to put another “god” in the Father’s place. (Exodus 20:3) Christendom has put two other gods in the Father’s place.....it is blasphemy IMO.

"If we want everlasting life, we have to “know the only true God” AND “the one he sent, Jesus Christ”. (John 17:3) There is no mention of the holy spirit there..."

May I add to this...

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name “Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Wick Stick]

The Bible does not record where Jesus said: "I am God". However, he said in (NIV) John 10:

Yes it does:

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:56-58)

 

[Fred J]

The Son (Jesus incarnation) is the firstborn over creation in prominence.

Well presented, thank you,, nevertheless, 'iron sharpens iron'.

But, on this part, is incomplete, because this refers to according to verse 18 of Colossians chapter 1. The Word and Son became man, died on the Cross and on the third day rose again. Therefore, He also later became the 'firstfruit' of resurrection, or 'firstborn' from the dead.

You yourself witnessed in regards verse 16, the Word and Son, created all things in Heaven and on earth. So, verse 15, refers to before all creation, and based on prior to all these creation, the Word and Son is the 'firstborn'.

In the Gospel, GOD the FATHER also refers to the Son as HIS 'only begotten'. Now, begotten of the FATHER, apparently means, came from GOD the FATHER.

The same if i had an one and only son by my wife, definitely i would proclaim him the same, 'my only begotten' or 'my one and only'.

Why is it difficult for believers to learn, as there's no wife nor marriage in Heaven. That, the Word and Son was made by the FATHER in the beginning before all creation ??

Genesis 1:1, 'In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth.'

Therefore, apparently the Heaven and the earth have a beginning.

John 1:1, 'In the beginning was the Word, .......................................'

The same, the Word and Son also have a beginning.

 

[TheHC]

The text in the original Greek actually says God is Spirit. The word "a" was added by translators.

Yes you are right.

Why is the indefinite article “a” added?
Because the Koine Greek language has no indefinite articles (“a” or “an”).
They have to be added in English, for us to understand the text.
Take John 6:70 in the ASV…”Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
“… a devil” is not in the Greek. The translators added it, though, for us to understand that Jesus wasn’t calling Judas “the devil.”

Unfortunately, most translators favor a bias, so they don’t accurately translate John 1:1 as it should be read: that “the Word was a god.”

Most, but not all, though.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus is equal with the Father in Spirit. But the Father has authority over all (including over Jesus and the Holy Spirit).

Assumption…the Bible does not say this…the church does.

God the Word is clearly God (John 1:1-2). God the Word humbled himself to become also human (John 1:14) which he did without relinquishing his deity. In Philippians 2:6 morphe theos huparchon appears in the original Greek stating that he became a man while never ceasing to be God.

There is no such person as “God the Word”…and your version of Phil 2:6 is also an assumption….Jesus never had deity to relinquish. He was the divine “son of God” and never once did he state that he was “God incarnate” or “God the Word”.

God the Word was sent into the world by the Father. That in itself is an executive order of the Father.

In that humility was Jesus' advent in the name of the Father.

The “executive order” of one part of God to another part of his equal self. …..are you hearing what I am hearing….? What illogical nonsense! You are suggesting things again that are not stated.

You pose rabbit trail suppositions.

I have been down many rabbit holes….and always drove the rabbits out. The truth can do that.

I will say in his body Jesus was and is 100% human while in his Spirit he is 100% God the Word.

Again with the supposition based on the doctrine….the doctrine itself has no scriptural foundation.
There is no direct statement in the Bible where Jesus ever claimed to be 100% human and 100% God. The math is all wrong…that’s 200%.
You have a doctrine you cannot prove….therefore it is not based on fact. You haven’t studied the Bible, but apparently you have some knowledge of theology…..they are not the same....big difference.

You apparently disbelieve in the multiple individuals in the Godhead. That simply fact logically answers every question you asked.

There is no “godhead” in the Bible…only in the KJV and it’s related translations.
No trinitarians have ever been able to prove that their doctrine is biblical…..it is the invention of an apostate church, centuries before you or I existed. An old lie that keeps the majority in shackles.

Nope. You are wrong. There's nothing that says God in human flesh cannot qualify or accomplish salvation.

But there are lots and I have already stated them.
An immortal God cannot die….a mediator cannot be one of the estranged parties for whom he acts as a “go between”….there is not one single statement in the Bible that categorically states what you believe.
You read the verses that the church supplies as proof, but you read over them without seeing what is obvious to us. Misinterpretation is rife.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ← morphe theos huparchon (never ceasing to be God) in the Greek
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

What “form” does God have? John 4:24 says that “God is a spirit”…..saying “God is spirit” flies in the face of the Bible calling the holy spirit “God’s spirit” or “the spirit of God”….it is clearly something that belongs to God, but is not God, personally. Jesus was humble and obedient to his God…..the one he still serves, even in heaven. (Rev 3:12)

The KJV has proven to be effective enough to answer all your objections.

The truth is it creates more questions than it answers…..It’s a dinosaur and people only cling to its many errors because they love them…. comfortable lies often sit better than an uncomfortable truth.
I hope you understand that God will not correct us if we are wrong…..(2 Thess 2:9-12) Delusions are not hallucinations….they are someone’s reality….not real to others though.

Let's go over some Christian basics here:

Let’s first of all clarify what are “Christian” basics, and what are Christendom’s basics…they are very different. I do not hold a single doctrine in common with any of Christendom’s churches…..I have examined all of them and thrown them out as adopted from outside of the Bible.

God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4) but the one God consists of three individuals who are the one God:

The Jews would never have accepted a human Messiah who claimed to be “God”….they accused him of blasphemy for claiming that ‘God was his Father’…..imagine what they would have done if he said he was “God incarnate”!

John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Read it in Greek….and see what it really says….
The definite article identifying Yahweh is seen only once in that verse. It is seen again in verse 2 where again the definite article is seen in the Greek but not in the English translation. It’s the sin of omission.

It says that the Word was “with God”….. if you are “with” someone you cannot “be” that someone.
And we note that it says “In the beginning”…..but seeing that an eternal God has no “beginning” this has to be referring to creation, of which the pre-human Jesus was “firstborn”. …”the beginning of God’s creation”. (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Who God was with:

1 John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

Let’s try quoting that with the verse you left out…..

”That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have observed and our hands have felt, concerning the word of life, 2 (yes, the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are bearing witness and reporting to you the everlasting life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us), 3 that which we have seen and heard we are reporting also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us. And this fellowship of ours is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.”

Where is the third person? Missing as he often is….
Who did the apostles say God was?
1 Cor 8:5-6…
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”
Two persons……the holy spirit is ‘missing in action’ again….

How do you read that very clear verse without implying what is not written?

Genesis 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

All three together at the same time with one another.

Yes…God Yahweh/Jehovah…..his son….and the power of God’s spirit….not three persons in one God. There you go suggesting again….you make scripture say what you want it to….let it speak for itself. It doesn’t say what you have been led to believe.

Also note that God the Word became a man:

That is not what the scripture says….”the Word (ho logos) became flesh” but Jehovah (ho theos) did not. He did not need to leave heaven to send his Redeemer….for all the reasons already mentioned.

Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

This also shows us that Jesus is the LORD YHVH.

Context is always helpful….who is God talking to? His nation of Israel. Who was their “one God” who had told them by means of Moses that he was the Creator of all things. The Messiah at that time was only a prophesied figure, not a reality yet, so when Jesus came, he revealed to his disciples that he was the “son of God”, sent to them as their savior and it was they who revealed his part in creation to us.…though Solomon had already alluded to it in Proverbs 8 as “wisdom personified”.

More than a century before Jerusalem’s destruction, Jehovah had promised to return his repentant people to their desolated homeland and to rebuild his temple and to restore its former beauty. (Isa 35:1-4)

God also had said: “I Jehovah, . . . who make good my servant’s word and execute my messengers’ plan, am he who says of Jerusalem ‘it shall be inhabited’ and of the cities of Judah ‘they shall be rebuilt and I will rehabilitate her wastes.’” (Isa 44:24–26)In 539 B.C.E., Babylon was conquered by the Medes and Cyrus their king allowed them to go home. God reveals his truth progressively, as he always has.

 

[TheHC]

That is to say Paul means a prize to be held on to rather than something to be won (“robbery”).

(“Robbery” is from the KJV)

This statement contradicts itself.

“Robbery” indicates nothing to “be held on to”; rather, it indicates something “grabbed” or “seized”.

And that, is what the Greek word ‘harpagmon’, employed at Philippians 2:6, rendered “robbery” in the KJV, means….

“something to be grasped,
ἁρπαγμὸν (harpagmon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 725: Spoil, an object of eager desire, a prize. From harpazo; plunder.”

Never does it mean “held on to”!!

That’s twisting Scripture.

 

[Johann]

(“Robbery” is from the KJV)

This statement contradicts itself.

“Robbery” indicates nothing to “be held on to”; rather, it indicates something “grabbed” or “seized”.

And that, is what the Greek word ‘harpagmon’, employed at Philippians 2:6, rendered “robbery” in the KJV, means….

“something to be grasped,
ἁρπαγμὸν (harpagmon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 725: Spoil, an object of eager desire, a prize. From harpazo; plunder.”

Never does it mean “held on to”!!

That’s twisting Scripture.

Yeah -we all twist Scriptures-right?

Thought it not robbery to be equal with God (οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ)
Robbery is explained in three ways. 1. A robbing, the act. 2. The thing robbed, a piece of plunder. 3. A prize, a thing to be grasped. Here in the last sense.
Paul does not then say, as A.V., that Christ did not think it robbery to be equal with God: for, 1, that fact goes without. saying in the previous expression, being in the form of God. 2. On this explanation the statement is very awkward. Christ, being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be equal with God; but, after which we should naturally expect, on the other hand, claimed and asserted equality: whereas the statement is: Christ was in the form of God and did not think it robbery to be equal with God, but (instead) emptied Himself. Christ held fast His assertion of divine dignity, but relinquished it.

The antithesis is thus entirely destroyed.
Taking the word ἁρπαγμὸν (A.V., robbery) to mean a highly prized possession, we understand Paul to say that Christ, being, before His incarnation, in the form of God, did not regard His divine equality as a prize which was to be grasped at and retained at all hazards, but, on the contrary, laid aside the form of God, and took upon Himself the nature of man.

The emphasis in the passage is upon Christ's humiliation. The fact of His equality with God is stated as a background, in order to throw the circumstances of His incarnation into stronger relief. Hence the peculiar form of Paul's statement Christ's great object was to identify Himself with humanity; not to appear to men as divine but as human. Had He come into the world emphasizing His equality with God, the world would have been amazed, but not saved He did not grasp at this. The rather He counted humanity His prize, and so laid aside the conditions of His preexistent state, and became man.
VWS

The trans. meaning of harpagmós, robbery, is necessary here. This is clear from the fact that the expression "to be equal with God" cannot be taken as the obj. of hēgḗsato (aor. of hēgéomai [G2233], to consider), not to be considered a robbery. If it were the obj. of the verb, then it must be essentially different from morphḗTheoú (form of God), which it can no more be than "and was made in the likeness of man" can be essentially different from "took upon him the form of a servant." The "form of a servant" includes "being made in the likeness of man." Similarly, the "form of God" includes the "being equal with God." Certainly the two expressions do not in both cases denote in an absolute sense the same thing; they differ: absolute divine existence is indicated by hupárchōn (G5225), being, in the form of God.

The part. hupárchōn means that Jesus continued to be in the form of God, which is what He was before He became man and had always been, for in essence He has always been God. His divine existence in relation to the world is indicated by the phrase, "He did not think being equal with God a robbery" (a.t.) as He was God among men. He was always God (Joh_1:1), and He became flesh (Joh_1:14), and thus on earth He was the God-Man. In schḗma (G4976), outer appearance, He was man. In essence (morphḗ [G3444]) He was God. When He became man, He truly took the form (morphḗ [G3444], essence) of a servant. He esteemed not His equality with God as something requiring an act of force against the world or a thing to be forced upon the world. In harpagmós we may see the action of robbing, while in harpagḗ the result of the action.
Syn.: klopḗ (G2829), theft; klémma (G2809), a thing stolen.
Ant.: euergesía (G2108), beneficence; eudokía (G2107), delight, good pleasure, kindness.

J.

 

[APAK]

Yes it does:

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:56-58)

Here we go again....WS please explain these verses clearly that you know what it is saying and in context with other previous verses. There was one significant question and only one question the Jews posed to Yahshua, as others asked of his similar ones, and he finally answered it in verse 58.

 

[APAK]

Here we go again....WS please explain these verses clearly that you know what it is saying and in context with other previous verses. There was significant question and only one question the Jews posed to Yahshua, as others asked of his similar ones, and he finally answered it in verse 58.

Beside other errs you have made in your response, I would do a retake on Micah 5:2. What you said is not what it means at all.

 

[Wrangler]

The text in the original Greek actually says God is Spirit. The word "a" was added by translators.

A distinction without a difference.

My pet cat. My pet is a cat.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is equal with the Father in Spirit. But the Father has authority over all (including over Jesus and the Holy Spirit).

This is just a wordy way of saying Jesus is NOT equal to God.

 

[Wrangler]

God the Word is clearly God (John 1:1-2).

There is no "God the Word." You are confusing a thing with authority from a Being, which is synonymous with a person.

Words are an attibute of being, not a seperate Being. This explains how God's word was with God. It's not some mystical supposition. Of course God's word has authority. This does not mean that words are a separate person from the Being who utters the words.

 

[Wrangler]

In that humility was Jesus' advent in the name of the Father.

Powerful rationalization, side stepping @Aunty Jane's question. If Jesus is God, why did he not come in his own name?

 

[Wrangler]

I will say in his body Jesus was and is 100% human while in his Spirit he is 100% God the Word.

Hmmm. You talk about rabbit holes eh? Equality is not achieved when one attribute is shared!

 

[Traveler]

Back in the day this is the conclusion I came to when looking at this question. ( Short version )

God has a body and he sits on a throne. Well God would not have a throne unless he created it for himself. God would not have a body, albeit a spiritual one, unless he also created it for himself. So the question remains, what was God before he created his own body. The logical deduction is that God propper is the Holy Spirit. He created his body so as to give his creation a focal point to direct their attention towards. Hence the only unpardonable sin is to Blasphemie against the Holy Spirit of God.

Jesus was the first of Gods Creation and held the position of the word of God. God created the rest of the universe through his word, which of course was Jesus in his pre-incarnate form. This is why God could say to Jesus, this day I have begotten you and Jesus would Be mature enough to understand it.

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

You can only enter this world by the front door, through Birth. The demons are the ones that climb up by the back door.