Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

[St. SteVen]

dev553344 said:
Yes there are spirits that enter bodies to be alive. They call it the womb of heaven where the spirits await their bodies at birth. That is clearly the nature behind possession as well.

rubbish dev!

Why do you think this is not possible?

.

 

[dev553344]

That's interesting.
How did you arrive at this conclusion?

/

God. I also have discernment spiritually. I see and hear spirits talk. But it is something that makes sense. I think anyone with sense of reality would draw that conclusion as well.

 

[MA2444]

Yes there are spirits that enter bodies to be alive. They call it the womb of heaven where the spirits await their bodies at birth. That is clearly the nature behind possession as well.

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

You're wrong.

Also, I dont even know who you mean when you say, they. WHo are they and where in scripture do they call a person the womb of heaven?

 

[dev553344]

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

You're wrong.

Also, I dont even know who you mean when you say, they. WHo are they and where in scripture do they call a person the womb of heaven?

Satan drew a 3rd of the stars out of heaven. Those stars are the devils of the earth. They are spirits that were with us in heaven.

 

[dev553344]

Here's the scripture:

Revelation 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

 

[St. SteVen]

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

Isn't that a reference to demons, not human spirits? (Matthew 12:43-45)

Matthew 12:43 NIV
“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.

/ @dev553344

 

[MA2444]

Isn't that a reference to demons, not human spirits? (Matthew 12:43-45)

Matthew 12:43 NIV
“When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.

/ @dev553344

Yes it is. But I think that the spiritual realm and how it works is the same for good or bad spirits. In the NT we see that one man had a legion of spirits in him. That's 2000 I think.

We are described as Having our spirit, plus the Holy Spirit, plus Jesus because we are in Christ, and the Father because Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him. So there's four in me right now, at least. So in the spiritual realm (and even on earth!) spirits can merge together.

From what I understand, spirts can not do much in the physical realm without a body to possess. But when they can possess a body then it's like they are super-human and can do more than mere unpossessed humans. Like the Lunatic which is described in scripture as not being able to be contained and he breaks off his chains.

Jesus did more casting out of evil spirits than any other type miracle when He walked the earth. It was that prevalent and even moreso now. And He told us to go do the same thing ourselves! We have been given the authority in Jesus name to cast them out.

The demons that get cast out have nowhere to go and wander in arid places. But he thinks, maybe I can go back and get back in that guy that I was cast out from? So he gets seven more demons which are stronger than he is, that they might be able to overcome the man. If the guy is not inhabited by the Holy Spirit and invites them back in inadvertantly somehow, his condition is worse than before.

Personally, I bet every one of those abc+ people are all possessed by demons.

 

[Mr E]

Job 10:11
Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Eze 37:6
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 37:8
And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

The valley of bones..

Eze 37:1
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Eze 37:2
And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Eze 37:3
And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Eze 37:5
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

what is blood?

Blood is a body fluid in the circulatory system of humans and other vertebrates that delivers necessary substances such as nutrients and oxygen to the cells, and transports metabolic waste products away from those same cells. Blood is composed of blood cells suspended in blood plasma. Plasma, which constitutes 55% of blood fluid, is mostly water, and contains proteins, glucose, mineral ions, and hormones. The blood cells are mainly red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets. The most abundant cells are red blood cells. These contain hemoglobin, which facilitates oxygen transport by reversibly binding to it, increasing its solubility. Jawed vertebrates have an adaptive immune system, based largely on white blood cells. White blood cells help to resist infections and parasites. Platelets are important in the clotting of blood. Blood is circulated around the body through blood vessels by the pumping action of the heart. Wikipedia

water, oxygen and hemoglobin

Hemoglobin is a protein containing iron that facilitates the transport of oxygen in red blood cells. Almost all vertebrates contain hemoglobin, with the exception of the fish family Channichthyidae and the tissues of some invertebrate animals. Wikipedia

Iron... Iron sharpens iron...

Job 28:2
Iron is taken out of the earth, and brass is molten out of the stone.

So blood is made from iron, iron comes from the earth, I believe all organic things that make up humans are earthy.
The only force outside of these is the breath God breathed into them.
God didn't breathe into the animals so I don't believe this refers to simple oxygen.

Jhn 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So the question is: Were we alive in heaven before we were born?

Where did the breath of God come from?
God's breath is life, same as his Word is life.
When Jesus breathed on the disciples they recieved the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit represents life?
Where was the Holy spirit before it was breathed into the world?

Were we alive in heaven before we were born?
I believe Yes, but not in the physical manner of flesh and bone, but rather in the concept of God's mind.
Every soul ever born on earth came from the same spirit God breathed into Adam and Jesus breathed into his disciples.
Without this breath, we are only water, iron and oxygen, there is no life in and of itself.

Life is in the blood. Not our own, it comes from God. God's life is breathed into our blood. His Spirit is breathed into our body/soul.

The dry bones, even though all the flesh and sinews were brought together had no life in them until God breathed on them.
Same way he breathed in Adam's nostrils, same way Jesus breathed on the world in the day of pentacost.

For we walk by faith and not by sight, takes on a whole deeper meaning...

You believe that you have life because of the oxygen you breathe from the air around you.
Then you are no better than a beast.
But man was made in God's image and likeness, and God is Spirit. And this Spirit is in your blood that God gave to Adam from the foundation of the world.

And God heard the voice of Abel from the blood spilt on the ground.
A voice is a word. Did Abel have the word of God in him?

How is it Jesus could say, I never knew you unless you don't believe that God is in you?

And if God is in you, then the question is: Were you IN God before you were born?
I believe each of us were and the future generations to come, are in God and come from God.
But we weren't individuals, we are the spirit of God created into individuals.

And when we walk contrary to God and his spirit, we make him a liar.
Because his spirit is not man's spirit, man's spirit is of the earth... oxygen.
And if we don't come to the knowledge that we all share one spirit, then God will hold us accountable with that talent he gave us.
Parable of the talents...

Mat 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Let your light so shine.

thinking...
Hugs

Wonderful musings Ziggy.

Forgive me and all my late commentary as I play catch up in this thread.

 

[Mr E]

God the Father is Spirit. We all come from God. We all have one Father.
1Co 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Trying hard not to trip over the trinity thing here... that's another pandora's box. Not even sure how that works.

when does the war begin... I would say at the age of reason. Or usually teenage rebellion age. I believe children are innocent until proven guilty lol. For real. They have to deliberatly and knowingly do something wrong before they are guilty of a rebellious spirit.

I don't believe a baby understands baptism and the significance of it, so no.

God spirit and human nature. How would you define the two?

So this is what I'm thinking...
Prior to being concieved in the womb, our essence, our life force.. the ability to be born alive as an individual,
the very life which enters into the womb upon conception, comes from God.
We are not a person yet. We are simply a part of God's Spirit. Not actualized in form of flesh. We are as it were a breath of God. We are a part of his being. We have no form, no name, no character of our own. We are Him before we are ourselves. Spirit.

I wish I could draw a picture..lol

Upon conception that spark of life that gets things rolling comes from God. It is what makes life possible.
If a child dies during childbirth, that Spirit, that spark, returns to God.

Now what happens from the time of conception to birth is a merging between that spark that comes from God and human nature which is created from the elements of the earth. Flesh. It's as if the flesh has a mind of it's own. The Id and the Ego, and the super-ego.
Oh oh here comes Freud..

You wish you could draw a picture?

You did!

If you want to understand the spiritual reality-- look in a mirror. Look at the physical reflection and though you don't see all that there is to see--- you can get the jist of it. You can get a glimpse of 'what it's like.'

When describing spiritual/heavenly/divine concepts- Jesus prefaced these things with-- "it is like..." and then he employed familiar things to create an association with things unfamiliar and otherwise indescribable.

Maybe you don't realize that you did this as well, but this is what you just did. You drew a picture of conception and of the biology that we are all familiar with, to describe things heavenly. Scripture describes these things exactly like that.... our life comes from the Father's seed. On earth as it is in heaven. Without going into the physical detail 'of how babies are made' -- you are on the right track.

 

[St. SteVen]

We are described as Having our spirit, plus the Holy Spirit, plus Jesus because we are in Christ, and the Father because Jesus is in the Father and the Father in Him. So there's four in me right now, at least. So in the spiritual realm (and even on earth!) spirits can merge together.

From that perspective, why would you post this?
MA2444 said:

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

From what I understand, spirts can not do much in the physical realm without a body to possess. But when they can possess a body then it's like they are super-human and can do more than mere unpossessed humans. Like the Lunatic which is described in scripture as not being able to be contained and he breaks off his chains.

Have you seen this?

Mark 9:21-22 NIV
Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”
“From childhood,” he answered.
22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him.
But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

Personally, I bet every one of those abc+ people are all possessed by demons.

The ABC+ people?
Who's that? ???

/

 

[Ziggy]

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

You're wrong.

Also, I dont even know who you mean when you say, they. WHo are they and where in scripture do they call a person the womb of heaven?

I think it's refered to as the guf?

I have to check it out.

Guf​

Guf is a Hebrew word, meaning "body". In Jewish mysticism the Chamber of Guf, also called the Otzar, is the Treasury of Souls, located in the Seventh Heaven. Wikipedia

Is the concept of the guff biblical? What is the guff?​

The Talmud asserts that the guff is a place where souls are kept before they are sent to Earth to be born as human beings. According to the Talmud, Messiah will not appear until the guff is empty—until every soul has been born a person.

Is it biblical?
I don't know..
I just remember it from a movie eith Demi Moore and Nicholas Cage.
The Seventh Sign maybe?
I forget.
Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

New forum topic.

The Parenthetical Greatest Commandment = Love Yourself!

/

 

[St. SteVen]

New forum topic.

The Parenthetical Greatest Commandment = Love Yourself!

/

 

[quietthinker]

dev553344 said:
Yes there are spirits that enter bodies to be alive. They call it the womb of heaven where the spirits await their bodies at birth. That is clearly the nature behind possession as well.

Why do you think this is not possible?

.

The record we have does not support this view. It sounds like something ingested from paganism.

 

[Ziggy]

And children are the inheritance of the Lord.

Exo 15:17
Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established.

Oh look another Sabbath Day reference along with the inheritance of children.
For such is the Kingdom of God.

No context, just taking a verse and plucking it out of thin air:

Num 32:18
We will not return unto our houses, until the children of Israel have inherited every man his inheritance.

In the new Testament our houses can be our tabernacles, and the tabernacles are our body.
So we will not return to our body, until the children have inherited every man his inheritance.
And what is our inheritance?
Heaven.

Those that are awake or asleep shall not prevent...

1Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

So the sleeping are the children of Israel have inherited their inheritance, and the we the alive and remain, return to our inheritance.

The firstfruits and the winter harvest?

Exo 23:16
And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

Where your treasure is

Luk 12:34
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Psa 135:4
For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

hmm
Mat 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

I wonder if this rich young man was married... and his treasure was waiting in heaven to be born.
But he went away sorrowful because he had much possesions.

Career over family..
it happens a lot these days.

Hugs

 

[Truthnightmare]

What was it that Esau, did, and do you think that God still hates him today? That is why a lot of people who suggest God is a God of hate is because of that one verse.

Hatred though, defined is just a strong disliking isn’t it?

@Truthnightmare

God is not a God of hate… And I believe there was an earth age before this one, and I can document that.

So what Esau did to be hated happened before he was born.

I think God hates sin, not just strongly dislikes it.

 

[Ziggy]

What was it that Esau, did, and do you think that God still hates him today? That is why a lot of people who suggest God is a God of hate is because of that one verse.

Hatred though, defined is just a strong disliking isn’t it?

@Truthnightmare

I was just hunting down Esau the other day because I had the same question regarding that verse.
And the more I dug the more I found

God knows the intentions of the heart even before they manifest in the flesh.
So if we follow the trail of Esau, I found he didn't have a very good character at all.

Oba 1:6
How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!

Oba 1:10
For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.
Oba 1:11
In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
Oba 1:12
But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
Oba 1:13
Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
Oba 1:14
Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

So now if we read what Jesus says about the brotherly love...

Mat 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Because Esau had hate in his heart against his brother, There is no choice other than for him to be brought to judgment.

If we look a little closer we find:


Heb 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Gen 27:38
And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
Gen 27:41
And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

The Blessing that Isaac gave to Esau was fairly close to the blessing that Isaac had given Jacob.

Only in the beginning Jacob would rule over him, but there would be a later time when the yoke of Jacob would be removed.

Gen 27:39
And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
Gen 27:40
And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

And instead of saying Thank You Father... His heart hated Jacob even more. And he would take revenge into his own hands instead of waiting for God to remove it for him.

So Esua will be standing before the judgment seat at the great white throne judgment as well as everybody else.
But for some it will be more tolerable than others.

That's what I found when I went digging.
Hugs

 

[MatthewG]

God is not a God of hate… And I believe there was an earth age before this one, and I can document that.

So what Esau did to be hated happened before he was born.

I think God hates sin, not just strongly dislikes it.

Okay, can I also ask you this question. While Yahava, hates sin ( the missing of the mark ) and for Israel of hitting the law of Moses perfectly ), has Sin been taken care of?

I believe that Esau is fine, and has been resurrected. Idk if he is in the kingdom or outside the heavenly kingdom or not, but I try to look at the broad scope considering Jesus and his victory.

I believe God works with individuals where they are at, and continues to call even in the afterlife.

 

[Ziggy]

Were we alive before we were born?

I believe God knows the plan for each of us before we are born, and what purpose he has planned for each of us.
I don't believe we are as you say "alive" , but in the sense that God has knowledge of who we are and what our potential is.
Was Esau bad from the womb? Was he a bad seed? Is this a tare sown with the wheat?
Can God turn tares into wheat?
I believe he can if we confess our sin, repent and follow him.

Gen 25:23
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Gen 25:24
And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
Gen 25:25
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Gen 25:26
And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The greatest enmity is between Love which is of God, and Hate which is of the devil.

Now comes an interesting twist of events.

Isaac loved Esau because of the venison, but Rabekah loved Jacob.
So could one say that because of Isaacs (lust) for meat, which Esau provided, it blinded him from what was in Esau's heart?

And another question:

Mat 23:19
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

So if the "altar" represents that which offers the gift.
Here we have Esau which honors his father by hunting for his desire for venison.
And you have Jacob which honors his mother by being deceptive, which she is willing to take the fault for.

Potter's clay, Law.

Why is this story in the bible? Does it have anything to do with the Gospel?

Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Will God show mercy to Esau? That's for God to know. He is the Judge.

The Law says:
Deu 5:16
Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Now we see that one son honoured his father and the other son honoured his mother.
And yet both sinned. Esau because he held hate in his heart towards Jacob, and Jacob because he decieved Esau.. twice.
And the first was worst than the second, because the first decision came from himself and not by his mother.

So How does one justify this law? It does not say father OR mother, it says AND.

Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
and:
Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

To the Jew first

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

So we ask, what will happen to Esau? And I hear...

Jhn 21:20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
Jhn 21:21
Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Jhn 21:22
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Trust God, He knows what he's doing. Keep your eye on your own path.


Hugs

 

[MA2444]

From that perspective, why would you post this?
MA2444 said:

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places. Should I tear that page out of my bible?

I dont understand what you're asking here.

Have you seen this?

Mark 9:21-22 NIV
Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”
“From childhood,” he answered.
22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him.
But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

Sure I have. The boy was possessed.

The ABC+ people?
Who's that? ???

All the queers. They use all those letters and I dont know what they all mean and cant remember them.