Jesus Christ, the Captain of our Salvation......said unequivocally that you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Why is that so hard to accept, if one is a Christian and has experienced the new birth.....?
What is Mystery Babylon?
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...then they are qualified to run the race of faith into the high calling that is in Christ. No one can justify themselves by having received a free gift.
Do you heed the utmost necessity of believing "on" Christ? Can I hear an amen? Why don't you mention the dire need to believe on Christ?
Preach it until it makes no logical sense....then rinse and repeat. Preach obvious super basic things to people who already have moved light years beyond you. And feel justified in doing so.
A little while ago you were accusing people of "blaming unbelievers"........and now when I point out problems within Christendom you suddenly take offense. So why are you offended?
The need to be born of the Spirit is essential, it is the starting point of true faith, and some need to hear it, including you apparently since you believe people can enter the kingdom of heaven without being born again. So I hope it does get preached here because it needs to be.
Luk 7:23
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Funny how some can think they are light years ahead of others when they haven't even got the basics yet.
Your idea of basics is to uplift the flesh by having Christ in you...as your foundation. Whereas the foundation is Christ....no ego involved....which makes you very much in error.
The foundation of God is to depart from iniquity. When I try pointing out your grave errors you double down on your iniquity.
Fundamentalist types are always stuck in the very first step. Always comparing themselves to unbelievers...to justify themselves. Or else claiming a certain status due to them due to a perceived gift from God.
Christ IN US the HOPE of GLORY...? This TREASURE in our earthen vessel nothing to write home about or rejoice in...?
May the Lord grant that I never become too high and mighty for Christ and Him crucified. What woke me up from that "new agey" path of spiritual self-actualization I was on was the realization that I missed Jesus.....He wasn't in it and He wasn't talked about much either.
Going from pillar to post. So you prefer the repetitive name-in -vain type of virtue-signalling to a scheme where Jesus is never mentioned.
But what if, rather than striking a religious posture...you could actually enter into eternal reality...through Christ?
Think about it.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
No, but I do know Catholics believe in Jesus. I have had many family members who were Catholic. It is not a religion without flaws, but a Christian religion.
I am a Protestant.
And you know this because the Holy Spirit told you? Christians can discern good from evil and evil spirits. Certain Christians have a gift of the word knowledge and prophecy and so can get spiritual insight into a particular person's life, but you just can't make a blatant claim as to the Holy Spirit is departing from this or that church.
Unless you are a prophet of God whom the Lord just gave information to about a a church(s) going down, having their lampstand removed ( like John was given the Seven Letters), I think you better retract that claim.
We are not privy to who is a reprobate and who is not, which is why the Gospel goes out to all. Generally we can observe their fruit and know them that way.
There you go, claiming Catholics are not born again. Some may not be, but how do you know? I can see their fruit, their faith and love for Christ and one another as I see Protestants have.
Have you ever conversed with a Nun or Priest casually and got the feeling this is a person led by Satan? Catholics have done much good in history, as missionaries, opening orphanages, hospitals, helping and loving people. These priests and nuns sacrifice their entire lives, become celibate, deny themselves a normal married life with a family for their Jesus! Can you do that? What do you give up and sacrifice for God???
People who do not have faith, have no interest in Christ. They are against Christ, refuse invitations to church, throw away tracts about the Gospel as fast as you hand it to them. If they are attending Church, likely they are interested, unless their motive is to please a family member or for appearances, social acceptance, political strategy ...
I had no interest in Christ as a non-believer in any way until He called me.
As far as I can discern, there are 2.7 billions Christians. This is the 1/3 remnant that God said would be saved, who will enter through the narrow gate.
Maybe you should not concern yourself with the Body of Christ and think about people who don't confess Christ, like Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, atheists, etc?
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I know and believe that, but how do you know if someone is or isn't born again?
By their fruit _ of the Spirit! And specifically there is a list: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control, faithfulness. So when we see those who have this fruit, and we see it grow, we know God is working in their lives. They may might be weak in certain areas or even most but even if they are not believers, likey they are written in the Book of Life. God may not get their attention until just before they die.
So we don't know and cannot assume who is, who isn't in that Book of Life.
Contrast them with really wicked people who don't produce any fruit at all. A rotten tree does not produce good fruit. But even the most wicked have been saved, yanked out-of darkness by God's merciful hand.
Saul was a murderer who persecuted Christians. His purpose in life was just that, to get up every morning and go get some Christians until God yanked him out of darkness and set him on a mission as Paul. How would you have viewed Saul before that conversion? Not very warmly.
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Think you better go back and read what I said again. I said the ruling spirit over the Catholic church is not of God.....the institution of Catholicism is not of God, it is of the devil. It is an evil institution and its fruit is evil. If you don't think so it's because you are unaware and need to look deeper than the surface niceties. I didn't say every soul in the Catholic church isn't born again.........but the vast majority are not, sadly, because they are taught that they were saved when they were baptized as infants.......and that they receive the Holy Spirit through another ritual. Catholicism doesn't preach the gospel, it preaches lies and has souls in captivity leading to them to perdition, to death, not to life.
Well, I'm not here judging individual souls, as you seem to think, but we can sometimes discern. There are tares among the wheat, goats among the sheep.........false brethren, false teachers, false prophets, etc.
I once started to read newspaper articles in the Religion section written by a writer who purported to be a Christian clergyman but I thought one day that he must not be born again....he was saying things that were way off and misleading and unbiblical. I feared for his soul, so I started to pray for him...... until the Lord told me in unmistakable terms to stop. Mean old God, eh? No, I think He just didn't want me wasting my time praying for someone who was probably reprobate and hardened and not foreknown by Him. I was so green and new in the faith back then I didn't realize that many in the church who say they are Christians are not really. It was a shocking and disappointing realization when it did come.
The bible says who are LED BY THE SPIRIT are sons of God...........and who has not the Spirit are none of His.
Romans 2.14-16, “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.”
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
You are wrong and quite judgmental. You have no knowledge of what the Holy Spirit has in mind for anyone. What you have just written is vile.
Catholicism's focal point is the death and resurrection of Christ and the Bible (which is larger than ours, having additional books). Yes they believe and attach additional beliefs: thise additional books, infant baptism, glorifying Mary praying to her and the saints, Purgatory,(which are empty, useless). They would tell you they do not worship Mary, just ask for her intercession in prayer, which is not what Jesus told us to do. So yes they have added useless rituals and traditions. But does that invalidate their primary faith in Christ? I don't think so.
Listen, if I am born again, but also believe that there are aliens from other planets who are watching us ( which I don't, but some people do) , does that invalidate my faith in Christ? No. If a person spends more time on preaching Amillennialism than Catholics do praying to Mary or the Saints, does that invalidate their faith in Christ? No.
So let's put a fine point on it where the rubber meets the road as they say.
> What actually does bring damnation to a soul?
> Disbelief and rejection of Christ all the way to their last breath, their death. So they could have a change of heart days or moments before they go.
> The blaspheming the Holy Spirit (which is in effect another form or act of disbelief in and rejection of Christ) is a serious sin that will not be forgiven.
Let me delve into that a bit. When Christ made that statement, what was going on?
The Pharisees were claiming that He healed by the power of Satan, implying the Holy Spirit is Satan. Jesus later rebuked them and condemned them.
You are claiming that the work of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church is of Satan, not the Holy Spirit. That is very dangerous ground you are treading on.
Question: Has the formation and growth of the Catholic Church _ since its beginning in 590AD _ with the 1st Roman Catholic Pope Gregory and continuing throughout their history to the present Pope _ not been the work of the Holy Spirit, but instead done by the power of Satan?
Be careful how you answer that. I think you need to abandon your claims. You may be blaspheming the Holy Spirit just like the Pharisees did.
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You are possessed of another spirit if you can write off more than a billion believers in Christ based on an effort towards self-justification.
Babylon is far greater than any one church denomination. It is Babylon the GREAT. The errors know no bounds. You should admit that you are in error, since your motivations make the Pharisees look like lambs in comparison in their judgments. Did the Pharisees right off entire sects of Judaism? Or did they seek to work with them?
And you are assuming that you are not part of the problem...which I discern that you are.
You can't just condemn Catholics for their religious practices. The Reformation brought in even deeper errors. And it is from those deeper errors that we see all the judging, condemning, grandstanding, self-righteous rants....etc. Whatever allows the outer man, now religiously justified (at least in their eyes) to "strut his/her stuff without any fear of the Lord...is as bad as it gets.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
There are only a couple things carried over from the OT to the NT.
Don't eat blood, and don't follow after idolatry.
What got Israel into a lot of hot water was their habit of following after idolatry.
The Holy Spirit won't lead you into idolatry. But will make a way of escape.
It is not the indiviual that bares the greater burden, but rather the one which leads them in.
The book of revelation speaks of the spirit of Jezebel.
Jezebel ruled over her husband. She put prophets to death who would oppose her voice.
The Catholic institution itself, those who have the charge of it. Whether it be the Pope or the Cardinals and Bishops which are over the laity (sheep) , these are those which will have greater judgment for leading the sheep into idolatry and falling into fornication with the world.
The Catholic institution has to go through a transformation itself. It has to die to it's own works which show that they do indeed follow after idolatry, they do indeed are accepting world views over biblical truths. I'm not even getting into the blood which is not only forbidden in the Old but in the New as well. It has been confirmed.
It was Aaron who told the children to gather all the gold so they could create a god to follow after when Moses was out of sight.
Aaron while Moses was away was in the role as the mouth of Moses.
And when Moses returned he found them nakedly and openly sinning for all the world to see.
And Moses asked Aaron.. whats going on, and Aaron lied. Oh look, we just did this thing and this other thing just happened all by itself.
This is the deception, this is the way Satan works. Lying.
The sheep are going to have to wake up and see where their leaders are taking them. And they will have to choose whether to leave or stay, to follow God or follow mammon.
It is what it is, and everybody knows it. It's not secret anymore.
And it has been in the open for all the world to see the moment they attacked the sheep and killed them for not walking according to their law. Some call it the great inquisition. The root is of the world and it is not of the Lord.
And if you were honest with yourself, you would not defend it.
The sheep yes, they are just following wherever they are led. As lambs to the slaughter.
Rather than the true sheep which are led to green pastures and peace.
I'm not bashing people who call them selves catholic and know not what it is they follow.
I'm bashing the Institute which knows fully well that they are leading the sheep into hell.
Hugs
Don't eat blood, and don't follow after idolatry.
What got Israel into a lot of hot water was their habit of following after idolatry.
The Holy Spirit won't lead you into idolatry. But will make a way of escape.
It is not the indiviual that bares the greater burden, but rather the one which leads them in.
The book of revelation speaks of the spirit of Jezebel.
Jezebel ruled over her husband. She put prophets to death who would oppose her voice.
The Catholic institution itself, those who have the charge of it. Whether it be the Pope or the Cardinals and Bishops which are over the laity (sheep) , these are those which will have greater judgment for leading the sheep into idolatry and falling into fornication with the world.
The Catholic institution has to go through a transformation itself. It has to die to it's own works which show that they do indeed follow after idolatry, they do indeed are accepting world views over biblical truths. I'm not even getting into the blood which is not only forbidden in the Old but in the New as well. It has been confirmed.
It was Aaron who told the children to gather all the gold so they could create a god to follow after when Moses was out of sight.
Aaron while Moses was away was in the role as the mouth of Moses.
And when Moses returned he found them nakedly and openly sinning for all the world to see.
And Moses asked Aaron.. whats going on, and Aaron lied. Oh look, we just did this thing and this other thing just happened all by itself.
This is the deception, this is the way Satan works. Lying.
The sheep are going to have to wake up and see where their leaders are taking them. And they will have to choose whether to leave or stay, to follow God or follow mammon.
It is what it is, and everybody knows it. It's not secret anymore.
And it has been in the open for all the world to see the moment they attacked the sheep and killed them for not walking according to their law. Some call it the great inquisition. The root is of the world and it is not of the Lord.
And if you were honest with yourself, you would not defend it.
The sheep yes, they are just following wherever they are led. As lambs to the slaughter.
Rather than the true sheep which are led to green pastures and peace.
I'm not bashing people who call them selves catholic and know not what it is they follow.
I'm bashing the Institute which knows fully well that they are leading the sheep into hell.
Hugs
Funny that people get so offended lest I be judging Catholics heaven forbid, and yet your continual judgment and accusations of the brethren here is quite acceptable apparently.
I'm not condemning individuals but identifying a false institution that calls itself Christian but isn't really.
We ought not to be fooled by the outward charms of Mystery Babylon………she doesn’t carry a trident or have devil horns and a tail….we have to know the devil is much more subtly seducing than that, like the serpent at the tree. She comes in lambs clothing….horns like a lamb but mouth like a dragon….subtle but blaspheming. We are not to judge by outward appearances. She is of the dragon, not of Christ, clearly. Those who actually know Christ shouldn’t be so shocked by that. It’s not an insult to say so, it’s just a spiritual reality, a fact, as well as an observation born out in reality by anyone looking deeper than the surface.
Rom 9:30-33
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
These passages above describes where most Catholics are, spiritually. Like the Jews of old they have heard of God by the hearing of the ear but have not met Him face to face, and I was once one of them. Most Catholic adherents are seeking to establish their own righteousness, rather than submit to the righteousness of Christ. They actually are disappointed and get offended if you testify that you received Christ and were born again and thus were saved. Imagine people who supposedly believe in Christ are disappointed and upset when someone actually comes to faith in Him and seeks to obey Him. Something wrong with that picture, no?
And worse many will try to talk you out of your faith and tell you have to join or come back to the Catholic church to be saved, and thus make themselves enemies of the cross. And they get offended if you try to tell them that they need to be receive Christ and be born again. Why? Because like the religious Jews, by implication it means that their own righteousness is not good enough to save them. So they stumble at the stumbling stone of Christ and refuse Him. Even though they may be zealous and make mention of His name and have a mental belief…..it is not the belief of HIS faith, it has not come through receiving HIM, His Spirit and His faith that is not of our own, thus receiving His righteousness that is not of our own, that no man may boast. THAT IS THE GOSPEL, AND CATHOLICISM OPPOSES IT. So how can Catholicism be of God, of His Spirit? This is why the Lord calls for His own to “Come out her my people lest you partake of her sins and receive of her plagues!”
Take away the offense of the cross and you'll get along with Catholicism (and the world) just fine.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
This is speaking of the believing gentiles .
The law is written upon the hearts , NOT of the unbeliever but of the BELIEVER .
I will make a new covenant with them in those days , i will write my laws upon their hearts and in their minds
This is all about FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
anyone who has heard that gospel of JESUS CHRIST and rejected BELIEF IN HE ALONE as the CHRIST
and thus stays an athiest or muslim or etc , THEY DO NOT LOVE GOD .
FOR had they loved GOD they would have LOVED JESUS who came forth OF GOD .
Now those are JESUS words and as such that makes them absolute truth .
Many are now under a guise , a belief that sprung from inclusivism new age mindsets .
This mindset is teaching a very bold lie and yet does it in such a way
as to make it seem very good and full of love . WHEN IN TRUTH its a death trap sent by a murderer
and his men to seduce all right into the second death .
A hint . Satan can sure sound very loving , but believe me he dont love anyone
and thus he and his men will preach an idea , a love , that wont save anyone but damns all . Let us continue
to stick in the bible and learn and to grow .
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
The devil masquerades as an angel of light. You sound as though you need to come out of her brother. Catholicism takes souls captive to itself, so that they can't receive Christ or are greatly hindered from doing so. That God is merciful and longsuffering means He may still work to save a remnant of souls out of her individually and He does the same within apostate protestant churches, but that is another topic.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
What he does is as manydo . They cannot defeat nor overcome the scriptures of truth you bring
so they push the YE ACCUSE and JUDGE CARD .
and yet let us examine something .
An example of the victim judge not card is this .
WHEN i say to one that is of another religoin or mindset
That they are in grave danger lest they repent of that false religoin and rather must BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST
OR if when i say that all other religoins are false , not of GOD , wont save a soul
ONE stands to say HOW dare you judge them , their are good people in every religoin
that do good works , Yet you say , say they , THAT if they repented not to BELIEVE ON CHRIST
they will be damned . YE JUDGE THEM , YE ACCUSE THEM .
AND YET its they WHO ACCUSE JESUS WHO FIRST SAID , IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS .
THEY accuse us of accusing and judging and hating others
because we do expose the evils , even the evils within much of christendom
and all the while they have made themselves THE JUDGE of even GOD and of CHRIST who first said those words .
ITS the victim card . THEY have no truth , no ammo to overcome truth so , THEY RELY ON THE VICTIM JUDGE NOT card .
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