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Every Preacher Should Be Preaching Perfection
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Davy
Well-Known Member
I get what the guy is saying, but... one needs to be careful 'how'... they preach that word 'perfection', because the occultists believe through mystic practice and eastern meditation that they can become 'perfect', and be released from the wheel of rebirth. What they are actual teaching is the false idea of the 'perfection of the flesh'.
Perfection of the flesh is not what Lord Jesus nor His Apostles were teaching. Our perfect works in Christ are about our works of Faith by The Spirit. The works can manifest in this flesh world, but the main difference is they originate by The Holy Spirit working through our spirit.
When Abraham believed God, and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness, Abraham did that via his spirit, not from his flesh.
Likewise, we should never get confused with thinking Lord Jesus was saying that our flesh can be 'perfect', because it cannot. Our flesh is assigned to death and to the law of sin, like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7. But by our acts from our spirit as initiated by The Holy Spirit, that is how we can be 'deemed' perfect now, even while still in these flesh bodies, not perfection of flesh, but perfection of spirit.
Perfection of the flesh is not what Lord Jesus nor His Apostles were teaching. Our perfect works in Christ are about our works of Faith by The Spirit. The works can manifest in this flesh world, but the main difference is they originate by The Holy Spirit working through our spirit.
When Abraham believed God, and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness, Abraham did that via his spirit, not from his flesh.
Likewise, we should never get confused with thinking Lord Jesus was saying that our flesh can be 'perfect', because it cannot. Our flesh is assigned to death and to the law of sin, like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7. But by our acts from our spirit as initiated by The Holy Spirit, that is how we can be 'deemed' perfect now, even while still in these flesh bodies, not perfection of flesh, but perfection of spirit.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Reader,
Consider that Jesus is talking to people who are not born again in the verse posted by @amadeus .
So, can they be "perfect" yet when they are still in their SIN?
Not quite.
And in the NT, Paul speaks of being "perfect"... "as many as be PERFECT".
What is that actually?
Its not behavior.
Its "God's knowledge" as "the renewed mind" or as Paul teaches.. that all the born again, are to come into the "Same Mind"...
And that is the "Perfected".
When are you perfected as a Born again Believer?
A.) Its when you have "Worked out your Salvation", and that does not mean to try to attain it or keep it.
Its to have the right MIND...the right THEOLOGY< the Right FAITH, the right UNDERSTANDING that is the same that God has, regarding what it means to be a "CHRISTian". and regarding what it means to be "not under the law but Under Grace".. and what it means to understand perfectly, what has happened when the born again have become " a NEW Creation IN Christ".
Its to understand PERFECTLY what it means to have been "Translated from Darkness.. TO LIGHT">
All of this, and more..... has to be thoroughly understood, and when it is, the "you have worked out your salvation and you are "perfected">.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Being a good Methodist, I prefer John Wesley's phrase, "Moving on towards perfection".
I've seen too many become discouraged when they realize that after many years, they still fall short. And too many who think they have already attained it, and look down on their brothers and sisters who stumble.
I've seen too many become discouraged when they realize that after many years, they still fall short. And too many who think they have already attained it, and look down on their brothers and sisters who stumble.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
In case anyone was wondering what perfection might look like...
(Ouch!)
(Ouch!)
How mature or complete is God, the Father? How much like Him are we now?
| 1jo 3:2 | Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. |
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
That would seem to be the first indicator that they haven't attained maturity.
I like this quote -
"The more I know, the more I know how much I don't know."
The baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Luke 3:16; Matt 3:11-17, Mark 1:8), is the one whom brings being baptized you with the Holy Spirit and fire. The gospel of Christ, which is all about his life, death, burial, and resurrection. Which is the power of Yahavah unto salvation to anyone who believes (Romans 1:6). God will adopt people to becoming his children being part of the family of those who are brought in and through Christ, to do what is good to do, and which brings forth pleasure of doing the Fathers will (Ephesians 1:5).
In Christ, we are also complete with the Father (Colossians 2:10), because of the holy spirit of Yahavah, dwelling with in you (1 Corinthians 3:16-17), that is the very spirit of the Father living within you. People are not of their flesh, when they are operating in the spirit (Romans 8:9-11), because of the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who is a disbeliever though are not of having the this experience. If that is christ in you, your body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of rightesouness - for believing in the Gospel. As we go about life, our choices between our completion in them, are made complete by their doing, whether we may know it or not, as faithful believing believers, because the fruits of the spirit are love (1 Corinthains; Galatian 5), not the things of the flesh or what our own souls may desire.
The question may be better asked, how complete do you see yourself in Christ?
r
| 1co 13:12 | For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. |
| 1th 5:19 | Quench not the Spirit. |
Sure... you can always revert to that, we do have the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ today. It's taken me along time to learn what has been shared with you. It's only because of Yahavah and his spirit, and we can know what the spirit produces...
op: every preacher preach perfection?
How can they when they are not themselves, preaching the four gospels,
prophecy, covenants, and law, which are for Israel, but, then, disobeying:
Jesus Christ, According To "The Revelation Of The Mystery" (Rom-Phm), eh?
Amen.
How can they when they are not themselves, preaching the four gospels,
prophecy, covenants, and law, which are for Israel, but, then, disobeying:
"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast,
and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come
and follow Me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away
sorrowful: for he had great possessions." (Matthew 19:21-22 AV)
When they should be Rightly Dividing God's Word Of Truth, and preach Jesus Christ, According To "The Revelation Of The Mystery" (Rom-Phm), eh?
Amen.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Yes, we should be striving to be perfect (Matthew 5:48). Sadly, many churches give their blessing to permissiveness.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Let's not use a verse given to Jews, in the OT as a wrong answer.....because its not related to the New Testament Walk of Christian Faith that is based on The Cross, that was not yet available in "Matt 5">
@Bob Estey , im going to answer you as a Thread i'll write then i'll post it.
Thanks for the inspiration.
So, Reader,
as ive taught many times in many Threads here on this Forum........ If you strive to be good, then this is going to awaken your "old man of sin" and you will find it even more impossible to be any good at all.
Reader, the natural mind.....or the way that "seems logical", is nearly always the opposite of How God works in your life.
Let me give you an example....
Jesus said..>"The LAST shall be first"., whereas the natural-carnal mind says..>"the fastest wins" "The Strongest will prevail".
A carnal person says.... ""if you want to win... then fight harder, strive longer, get a bigger gun, attack them when they are not ready".
God says.. "you win the battle on your knees" In Prayer... God says.. "humble yourself before ME, and I"LL be your Victory, always". "ill fight your fights for you".. because ""The Battle is the LORDS".
See that, Reader?
No?
Then read it again..
Reader, God's ways are not how we naturally think about those things or almost everything.?
God's ways are HIGHER Than our little minds THINK, so we have to get out of our mind and get the RENEWED MINE that is God's perspective.
So, if you want to have a perfected discipleship, then to not have it, is as simple as striving to be perfect and trying to resist your carnal desires by willpower.
As when you do that, you are setting God on the Shelf and He will watch you fall and fail and stumble as your self righteousness and self effort, keeps you falling down.
He'll let you learn the hard way, if you want it that way.. If you have to have it YOUR Way.
Thats a fact.
Believe it.
See, when YOU WORK to try to BE GOOD, then God rests and you fail.
This is why Paul told you..>"its is not I who live but Christ who lives in Me"... and """i can do all things through Christ, who STRENGTHENS" = ME""..... and YOU .
See that?
So look again, Reader.
Jesus said... "Apart from ME... you can do NOTHING".. and Christ The Lord is not talking about losing Salvation.
See that "Nothing" That is what you accomplish when you STRIVE to be good and STRIVE Against your wrong Desires to try to live HOLY.
You literally turn off God's Power as Christ in you, and you Fail and Fail and can't understand why.
Its because.. ."APART from ME, you can do NOTHING".. Jesus told you.
Do you see it now?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
The law was meant to keep us out of trouble. If I rob a bank, I go to jail, so I haven't robbed any banks.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
We will come to a point where like Enoch, we will be so close in our walk with God, that we are ready for the kingdom...
Behold
Well-Known Member
There are 613 Moses's Laws, obo, and 10 Commandments that God gave to Moses to give to the Jews.
That should keep you out of Jail, @Bob Estey . if you keep them all, but keeping them all wont get you into heaven.
See, there is no Moses Law or 10 Commandments in Heaven.
Its not needed there.
Its needed down here where there is sin so that by all this, we can realize what we are and that leads us to the cure for our " sinful condition".
See The Cross of Christ for the CURE.
Paul also, talks about "lawkeeping" to try to be righteous, and compares trying to do that.....as compared to Christ's Righteousness which God gives to everyone who will give God their Faith in Christ.
What God gives is "The GIFT of Righteousness".
This is Philippians 3.
Its a good read.
Everyone is invited to read it.
