God is male/female

[O'Darby]

I don’t have to care what biblical scholars has to say. I trust God to help me in understanding what he has put forth by the hands of Moses. If it leads me to hurt others, then that is something I need to change. But I don’t see anything wrong with what I have stated.

That is, alas, the path to massive error, if not madness.

 

[MatthewG]

That is, alas, the path to massive error, if not madness.

Thank you.

 

[Mr E]

Strange statement to make considering scripture. As we are not allowed to discuss the trinity I will not elaborate, but I will quote scripture:

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Also the second book of Enoch describes seeing God as a man.

What's really strange dev-- is that you are the one contradicting scripture here. Number 23:19 specifically.

God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a human being, that he should change his mind.

You could say that God is best associated with male attributes as the Father, and that this divinity has female attributes expressed as the Holy Spirit, and their spiritual offspring are the sons of God. Scripture will back you up on all of that, but the idea that God is a physical man is not supported by scripture-- anywhere.

 

[Mr E]

People have to think. God made male and female in his image, being spirit or not.

This is a key point actually. God (elohim) made Adam (mankind) in their (plural) image-- male and female they created mankind-- before Eve was taken out of man.

Then the elohim said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness...

Elohim created humankind in their own image,
in the image of elohim they created them,
male and female they created them.

I'm responding in order as I work through this thread, but since Heiser is later invoked-- this is where his ideas come from. He recognizes that there is a spiritual realm where there are spiritual sons of God-- divine beings, who are the offspring of God through the spirit, who partake in creation.

These divine ones form for themselves tselem -- images, is the word used in translations, but it would be far more accurate to note that what they made is likenesses of themselves. Idols.

The stories you've been told and the lies you've been sold aren't even half the story.

But, for the moment-- the point I'm emphasizing is that humankind (adam) was created originally with male and female attributes (spiritually, not physically) and at some later moment in time, the female (half) of him was taken out and from that Eve came to be. All of this in spirit, in the heavens, in Paradise.... before the fall of man.

 

[Mr E]

Has anyone ever consider that the Holy Spirit of Yahava which produces wisdom is feminine in nature when wrote about in the Pslams, is that important?

No one answered that question.

The Holy Spirit is expressly female. It's not even questionable. The mystery of this 'part of God' is revealed through this principle --- 'On earth as it is in heaven.' Now folks can say-- we don't really know how things work in heaven, and that is true. But we do know how things work on earth, which is a reflection of all above.

On earth, a man and a woman unite. The woman is seeded by the man and she conceives. An offspring is formed as a direct result of this union and a child is born. It would be a violation of this principle for things to be any different in a spiritual sense and God is not a deceiver. In the heavens the Father and Mother united, produce offspring. God is spirit. In the divine sense it is the union of these two parts that produce offspring. Spirit gives birth to spirit.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If that is the case, in Christian culture, should people worry if a person chooses to change their expression from what is normal?

God made man and woman for a purpose, uniquely _ and assigned them roles. What you are in asking (in a round about way) is shouldn't people have the right to change their sexual identity and shouldn't we accept the LGBT folks (who really suffer from mental disorder), right? NO. You cannot change your gender and we won't accept it. It is impossible to change your gender. Every cell has a genetic marker. So even with hormones or operations, ot's only an outward facade. It's all an abomination to God, a perversion of His creation AND they will be judged for it. You can act and pretend, but it's all delusional.
MatthewG, Don't even try to twist it into "they are just being like God in a different way... the other part of His image".

And btw, another example of God's purpose for at least a man to do is WORK - go out and get a job and not milk off your parents in your 20's and 30's.
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Tim.5:8

This Millennial generation and what's the new one - "Gen-Z", have a different perspective on life. LIBERALISM has corrupted them. Some ( not all) are lost in their cell phones, video games, identity, because they are idle. God warns those who avoid work, are idle, make excuses, He calls them the sluggards, lazy lumps, who will suffer from their lack of responsibility. These sluggards often are a dishonor and disappointment to their parents (who may be partially to blame - but not totally). These kids don't want to grow up. They become so self focused and because of this, sad, miserable, easily corrupted by the devil and in some cases, delusional, seeking to change themselves - as if that is the solution.

Come Lord Jesus SOON and fix this screwed up world!

 

[Mr E]

God is in perfect plural, demonstrating masculine and feminine in nature. His Holy Spirit is a comforter like a mother would be to her son. I still see God as my Father but realize he is a God not only shows his anger and wrath towards sin, he is also continuing to change in his love, and even frequently repents of the evil he would do on his people.

It would be a mistake to limit your understanding of God to a plurality. God is all. The separating of the female aspect from the male depicted in scripture as Eve being taken out of and formed from Adam is an image (reflection) of something heavenly that happened. Separation is always associated with holiness. To 'set apart' or divide parts one from another to create two distinct entities that come from one source. Two equal parts in the beginning, before the fall. This becomes a deep conversation quickly, but people often ask where did evil come from (?) and questions like -Did God create evil? No-- He separated himself from that part of Him. Would that make the Holy Spirit in some way-evil? Not in the least. But God alone- is set apart. The Father is above all and set apart. He doesn't touch the flesh and the flesh cannot approach Him. He does battle with the flesh through the Holy Spirit--- and just like Eve, she was created as a companion for us in this war between spirit and flesh. The battle is waged in and through the spirit.

Male and Female he created them, in the likeness of his image. A perfect representation of God in his fullness, when one becomes married. Yeshua, the Word of God and Yahavah who sent his Word reunited into one when Jesus sat with his Father on his throne becoming the Lord God Almighty.


We basically decide to marry the Lord Jesus Christ, and we become joined in union with him and the Holy Spirit of God.

This is the story in a nutshell. What was separated is restored and brought back into perfect union. Jesus explains it well in John 15 and 16, saying he came from the Father and is returning to Him. Jesus says- "I will ask the Father and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth." In other places, this companion is called the comforter. But it goes something like this... The Father is in me and I am in the Father and I will be in you and you will be in me... and this Holy Spirit/Advocate/Companion will reside in you in this same way the Father resides in me.

And one day-- all those who are found 'in Him' will return to Him-- the Son will become a Bride Collector and all those in his body- the body of Christ will be presented before the Father, as a pure and spotless bride and perfect unity will be restored.

Being married and enjoined to Christ is about the gayest thing one can do I’ve heard from a speculative source. He does bring forth rest, and the Holy Spirit brings, joy and peace.

There's nothing "gay" about it. It's as far from gay as you can get. It's about male and female being perfectly united. It's about redemption and restoration.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Has anyone ever consider that the Holy Spirit of Yahava which produces wisdom is feminine in nature when wrote about in the Pslams, is that important?

No one answered that question.

I’ve considered it in regards to born of the freewoman; Jerusalem which is above and is free, which is the mother of us all. …So then, brothers, we are are not children of the bondwoman(of sin unto death) , but of the free(of righteousness unto Life).
Galatians 4:22-24,26,30-31

When Wisdom is spoken of in Proverbs she is personified as “feminine” “take hold of her teaching” is it horrible to accredit Jerusalem above as the freewoman, the Mother which gives birth to the children of God as being in One Agreement with the Father and the Son delivered? out from the freewoman comes Wisdom that feeds the children of God the Father and nurses babes up into growth and full maturity? It is said what comes forth from her, given from that which is above is different from what is handled down through men. That this that comes from above given of the seed of Christ which God planted, out of a womb of “the freewoman” is
James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[Mr E]

Women are made in the image of God we possess his feminine qualities. Men possess his masculine qualities. Adam possessed both masculine and female qualities as he was made in Gods image but God knew it was not good for Adam to be alone so removed the female qualities and put them into a separate being - a woman - and together a loving Godly couple - man and woman - will possess all the qualities.

I'll invite you to think about it in a slightly different way. When you look at a tree-- do you think in terms of a male tree, or a female tree?

Maybe you do, but most folks don't. It's just a tree. It produces fruit. That's the image of the original Adam.... a tree in an orchard that somehow by the miracle of the divine-- it produces fruit. It is seed-bearing, and from it's seed and the mystery of Life within that seed, it produces fruit and that fruit contains even more seed. The seed falls to the ground and dies, and yet produces 30, 60, 100-fold. You might think of Eve in similar terms-- also a seed bearer. It's not that one produces men or male qualities and the other only female, but from both trees- an admixture is formed having parts of both male and female-- the dna of the offspring (fruit) contains dna from both parents.

 

[amadeus]

I don’t have to care what biblical scholars has to say. I trust God to help me in understanding what he has put forth by the hands of Moses. If it leads me to hurt others, then that is something I need to change. But I don’t see anything wrong with what I have stated.

That is, alas, the path to massive error, if not madness.

If one is trusting truly in God, while not always following the ways of the biblical scholars, how would that be the way to error or to madness?

Biblical scholars, like any man following God, can be right, but like any man, quenching the Spirit, they can be wrong. The important thing I see it, is as @MatthewG indicated, is to trust God in our seeking:

Mt 6:33

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1th 5:19

Quench not the Spirit.

Who then are the sons of God?

Ro 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Who then are those to be like Him?

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Pearl]

I'll invite you to think about it in a slightly different way. When you look at a tree-- do you think in terms of a male tree, or a female tree?

We have holly bushes near us and the 'female' tree bears berries whilst the male tree does not.

 

[Pearl]

You might think of Eve in similar terms-- also a seed bearer. It's not that one produces men or male qualities and the other only female, but from both trees- an admixture is formed having parts of both male and female-- the dna of the offspring (fruit) contains dna from both parents.

Men and women have different hormones. The predominant male hormone is testosterone whilst female hormones are oestrogen and progesterone.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

All people are created in the image of God

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
(Genesis 1:27)

Women are made in the image of God

“For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.” (1 Corinthians 11:7, KJV)

 

[O'Darby]

If one is trusting truly in God, while not always following the ways of the biblical scholars, how would that be the way to error or to madness?

If one views the Bible as some sort of God's Ouija Board that one simply has to consult and receive answers, I think this is very dangerous. Many who do take this approach seem to have the same sort of mental quirks (to put it charitably) that one finds in cults, conspiracy communities and other aberrant groups. They start weird and end up really weird - and far from what the huge body of biblical scholars understands the same passages to be saying.

The fact is, the Bible is an ancient collection of diverse writings authored over a long period. Every book has its history. Schiolars from multiple disciplines have an understanding of every book, in terms of history, theology and context, that is far different from the understanding of the typical quirky do-it-yourselfer or even the typical literalist inerrantist. There isn't always scholarly unanimity or even consensus, but the debate can be useful too.

I think it's a matter of your basic understanding of what the Bible is - God's Ouija Board or God's word but still an ancient book on which multiple disciplines can shed greater light than any of us can achieve on our own.

 

[Mr E]

The Hebrew word for "spirit", "ruach" is feminine, while the Greek NT equivalent "pneuma" is neuter. The pronoun would follow the gender of the noun in represents. I would conclude that the word gender is an accident of language development.

I do find it curious that "ruach" and "pneuma" can mean both "breath" and "spirit" in the two original biblical languages.

It's not by accident. Neither is it surprising that the translators so often 'lose something in translation.' In this case, they drop this concept of 'femaleness' that is intended to be associated with the spirit-- this 'breath of life' idea. The spirit enters and leaves the body-- as natural as breathing, but in a greater sense. It enters and fills the body at birth-- and the man becomes a living being, and it leaves the body as it expires at death, and returns to God from whence it came.

 

[Mr E]

Who says that spirits have no gender? Not the Bible.

Chapter and verse please--- where it says they do?

 

[Mr E]

I think you're both right. Scripture doesnt say spirits are without gender it just says they dont get married. But on the other hand, God dont need gender to create or procreate or anything. Being Spirit means He lives on a higher plane of existance than biological creatures do so would laugh at that idea of creation the biological way!

Sexual procreation may be the highlight of a mans life on this planet, but When we go to heaven we will also be living on a higher plane of existance wherein a boring day there would easily outshine our best day here doing anything. It's not that hard to imagine being a being that doesnt have a sex drive!

Except scripture really does say that spirits are neither male, nor female.

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female —for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Regarding sex, or marriage in a spiritual sense-- Jesus says simply-- 'It's not like that.' It's a different kind of union, not physical/biological. He basically says-- 'Y'all don't know what you are talking about. In the resurrection (in the spirit) there won't be marriage in the sense that you are thinking.... you'll be like the angels (neither male nor female) --- spiritual, not physical, so stop thinking in terms of physical union (sex) and in terms like male and female which require higher understanding spiritually than in the physical sense.

 

[amadeus]

If one views the Bible as some sort of God's Ouija Board that one simply has to consult and receive answers, I think this is very dangerous. Many who do take this approach seem to have the same sort of mental quirks (to put it charitably) that one finds in cults, conspiracy communities and other aberrant groups. They start weird and end up really weird - and far from what the huge body of biblical scholars understands the same passages to be saying.

It was a bit over 50 years ago that I actually tried a Quija board at my brother-in-law's home. I was at the time outside Church and definitely apart from God. I felt a spirit from that board which definitely was not of God. I have strived to never return to such a place.

Which biblical scholars are they who understand always what God is saying in the scriptures? Only the ones who are being led by the Holy Spirit in their studies. Others, who leading themselves, or being led by other spirits, will likely find themselves in accord with what Solomon wrote about 3,000 years ago with regard to studying:

Ecc. 12:12

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

The fact is, the Bible is an ancient collection of diverse writings authored over a long period. Every book has its history. Schiolars from multiple disciplines have an understanding of every book, in terms of history, theology and context, that is far different from the understanding of the typical quirky do-it-yourselfer or even the typical literalist inerrantist. There isn't always scholarly unanimity or even consensus, but the debate can be useful too.

You are looking only at the men, the writers in their flesh, without considering or understanding what Jesus said here:

Joh 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I think it's a matter of your basic understanding of what the Bible is - God's Ouija Board or God's word but still an ancient book on which multiple disciplines can shed greater light than any of us can achieve on our own.

Consider the words of the blind man healed by Jesus:

Joh 9:24	Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
Joh 9:25	He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
Joh 9:26	Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
Joh 9:27	He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
Joh 9:28	Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Except scripture really does say that spirits are neither male, nor female.

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female —for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Regarding sex, or marriage in a spiritual sense-- Jesus says simply-- 'It's not like that.' It's a different kind of union, not physical/biological. He basically says-- 'Y'all don't know what you are talking about. In the resurrection (in the spirit) there won't be marriage in the sense that you are thinking.... you'll be like the angels (neither male nor female) --- spiritual, not physical, so stop thinking in terms of physical union (sex) and in terms like male and female which require higher understanding spiritually than in the physical sense.

Never considered the above before …is there no more freewoman and bondwoman?

 

[Mr E]

That isn't what it means, which is the problem with relying on one's own interpretations rather than the best scholarship. The late Dr. Michael Heiser and others have shown convincingly that what it means is that humans were created to be God's "imagers" - representatives - on earth, to exercise dominion over the earthly part of creation. Even those who read it literally generally understand it to mean that we are in God's image in terms of capacity to reason, love, etc. I have actually never heard anyone suggest there was a sexual component - that Adam and Eve represented the male and female aspects of God, which strikes me as absurd. God created male and female among all creatures in the earthly realm for procreative purposes, not to demonstrate that He is both male and female.

When you go off the rails at the outset, you never get back on. I remember a law professor talking about the interpretation of statutes: "READ THE DEFINITIONS FIRST!" Non-lawyers who dive straight into statutes typically make fools of themselves because they don't understand how the terms are being used. To interpret "made in His image" as "male and female" strikes me the same way.

I finally made it this far in the thread.... Post #53 where you introduced Dr Heiser and his explanation. I've always been interested in his scholarly perspectives and I was saddened to lose him to cancer a year or so ago. I'd encourage you to dig deeper into his views on the male/female aspects of God. He explicitly teaches/taught that these 'imagers' you refer are male/female representations. I'm sorry, but you are misrepresenting his views here. Heiser makes it clear that God presents himself as a male- King and Father, but that's not all that there is to Him. He's above and beyond those representations-- those images.