The Key to Discipleship

[Behold]

We’re they weak in their faith to believe that?

No, they were just brand new to the faith.

See, the devil comes to the new believer, with Cult Theology.
They have no idea that He does this, as they see the Devil as "red suit, pitchfork, glowing eyes'.

But the Devil is a angel of LIGHT... He is a Theologian, a philosopher,.. He has advanced wisdom that seems like Truth.. It sounds true.

His Ministers, are "ministers of Righteousness" but they have a "form of godliness, denying the power, thereof".

In other words, they have a Cross-less Gospel.. Their Gospel is "DO'ism" and "SELF Righteousness" and "keep myself saved". and "confessing sin to be re-forgiven".

Its the Gospel of THEIR Works, that denies the Power that is The Cross of Christ, as the ONLY Way to go to heaven.

 

[Behold]

Nobody is changing anything Behold, calm down. As a believer I'm eager to serve

I didnt say you changed anything.
I just posted the verses so that you have the opportunity to go and study them.

And im glad you are "eager to serve".

So.....Start here.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God"...

Study the Bible. A real one, not a false one.

Also..

Let me give you some good things to study., as you want to serve, right?
Then serve by being a good student.
To be a good student, @APAK, you have to know where and what to study.

Go here. :

Romans 3:21-28
Hebrews 13:9
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 3:17
Romans 4:8.

If you will study those, then they will lead you to Paul's theology, as He told you this.

1 Corinthians 11:1 (Study that one).

And of course you dont have to listen to me.

There is always Episkopos, and similar.

So, "have thine own way".

 

[Lizbeth]

In other words, they have a Cross-less Gospel..

We seem to have differing ideas of what a cross-less gospel is. To me it is a gospel that doesn't involve anyone carrying their cross and following/obeying Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is what happens.

a person Trusts in Christ.
And "faith is counted"

You take Christ, God takes you.

So, there is no confusion about it...... The person is just happy.

But then...

They go to a forum, or to a church, or here comes a family member, or they read a commentary, or the Devil directs them to verses that they are not ready for, yet.

And in seconds......they now believe that their Salvation isn't eternal.

So, that is what happens.

The Devil can't take us to Hell, so, He tries to ruin our FAITH.
And once its ruined, then the person doubts their Salvation.
That's the PROOF.
And once that is fully evolved, they come to forums and go to pulpits and make videos that try to prove that you can lose your salvation.

The schemes of men are better to be found out now than on judgment day. That is a wisdom seldom understood. How many seek God? How many just lazily put their trust in paid preacher/salesmen? There is a curse on those who trust in men. And there is eternal blessing for those who trust in God and seek Him that they may live.

Many are departing the religious schemes of men. What is sad is that so many have no other option than the franchise church system...having seen through the facade. Are they given the chance to now hear the true gospel of power over sin? Not many are.

The modern decoy church system has an easy believism that appeals to the flesh...and self-preservation. It is backfiring. Indoctrination is NOT the right way to re-enforce faith. That is the way of human beliefs. God is not in it.

The truth sets us free...not religious presumptions.

 

[Behold]

We seem to have differing ideas of what a cross-less gospel is. To me it is a gospel that doesn't involve anyone carrying their cross and following/obeying Jesus.

The Gospel is that Jesus died on The Cross for ALL your sin, and if you will Trust in Christ, God will provide Him to you as your Sin bearer, and your Eternal Redemption.

That is the "preaching of the Cross" and "The Cross is the power of God, unto Salvation" to all who Believe it.

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Now, once you do....

You are become a : Son/Daughter of God, by Spiritual Birth.

And having now BECOME "born again" as a "new creation in Christ"...

= That part is Completed..


THEN, you go out and "present your body, as a living Sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service".

As @Lizbeth,, isn't it "Reasonable as a = service, to live for God, after He has saved you, for eternity, through the Blood of Jesus?

But, understand that He didnt save you because you agreed to the reasonable service, first.

God Saved you when you were "yet in your sins", as Salvation is a GIFT that you don't earn and you can't keep or lose.

God is the Author of Salvation, so, He provides it and He completes it.

 

[Episkopos]

The Gospel is that Jesus died on The Cross for ALL your sin, and if you will Trust in Christ, God will provide Him to you as your Sin bearer, and your Eternal Redemption.

That is the "preaching of the Cross" and "The Cross is the power of God, unto Salvation" to all who Believe it.

Now, once you do....

You are become a : Son/Daughter of God, by Spiritual Birth.

And having now BECOME "born again" as a "new creation in Christ"...

That part is Completed..


THEN, you go out and "present your body, as a living Sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service".

As @Lizbeth,, isn't it "Reasonable as a = service, to live for God, after He has saved you, for eternity, through the Blood of Jesus?

But, understand that He didnt save you because you agreed to the reasonable service, first.

God Saved you when you were "yet in your sins", as Salvation is a GIFT that you don't earn and you can't keep.

God is the Author of Salvation, so, He provides it and He completes it.

Works salvation based on presumptions and assumptions. Religious gobbledygook that all takes place in the imagination...no truth...no reality...just name and claim. Lizbeth should love your post.

 

[Behold]

The schemes of men are better to be found out now than on judgment day.

Yes, and that is why you need to change your Theology, to fit The Grace of God, vs, contradicting it.

 

[Behold]

Works salvation based on presumptions and assumptions. Religious gobbledygook that all takes place in the imagination...no truth...no reality...just name and claim. Lizbeth should love your post.

You are the one Who teaches "works as salvation".
This is why you reject and mock The Gift of Salvation.
This is why you refer to the Grace of God as "free stuff".
You dont understand God's Grace, .. and you have your own Gospel that you prefer.

 

[Episkopos]

The Gospel is that Jesus died on The Cross for ALL your sin, and if you will Trust in Christ, God will provide Him to you as your Sin bearer, and your Eternal Redemption.

False. The gospel is that Jesus was raised from the dead to empower us to walk as He walked...in victory over sin. All who enter INTO Him overcome as He did. Jesus died for the sins of all men whether we believe He did or not. We don't vet Jesus...He vets us. So your scheme is backwards..it exalts you.

That is the "preaching of the Cross" and "The Cross is the power of God, unto Salvation" to all who Believe it.

False. The preaching of the cross is about the power that takes away the sin nature embedded in the outer man. Once broken, the inner man is free to be joined in intimate fellowship with God. True ministers have a ministry of reconciliation...a real connection to God in power...by grace through faith...NOT of flesh appeasement and imaginary relationship as you teach.

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Now, once you do....

You are become a : Son/Daughter of God, by Spiritual Birth.

And having now BECOME "born again" as a "new creation in Christ"...

= That part is Completed..

False. It is only a first step. Burying one's talent (to keep it safe) is a recipe for disaster. We are called to bear a perfect, holy and eternal fruit. All who do NOT do so...and yet claim to be in Christ...will be cast out into outer darkness...there will be weeping and anger.

THEN, you go out and "present your body, as a living Sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service".

Misunderstood. We present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice in order to be CRUCIFIED in the outer man. God decides if He takes that sacrifice or not. He is not forced in any way to receive us. He weighs the hearts.

As @Lizbeth,, isn't it "Reasonable as a = service, to live for God, after He has saved you, for eternity, through the Blood of Jesus?

But, understand that He didnt save you because you agreed to the reasonable service, first.

God Saved you when you were "yet in your sins", as Salvation is a GIFT that you don't earn and you can't keep or lose.

God is the Author of Salvation, so, He provides it and He completes it.

To complete our salvation we must go to God and meet Him personally. The sample of grace is meant to give us the motivation to get the whole measure of faith so that we are filled with the FULLNESS OF GOD. Anything less than that is a counterfeit.

 

[Behold]

False. The gospel is that Jesus was raised from the dead to empower us to walk as He walked..

No,

the Gospel is that Jesus died for ALL your sin, so that God could forgive it, and thereby accept you as His own, based on the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

This is "the gift of Salvation".

False. The preaching of the cross is about the power that takes away the sin nature

The Cross is given to sinners, who are lost and are going to die in THEIR SINS< = if they are not forgiven by God through Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross.

The Preaching of that Message, Is the "Preaching of the Cross" and that is The Gospel of the Grace of God.

If you own a bible, you'd be smart to read, and believe....

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 3:21-28

We are called to bear a perfect, holy and eternal fruit.

The word says, "be ye Holy as I (God) am Holy".
However, you of yourself can never by Holy, as you've already sinned.

So, the only Holiness that a sinner can have is if God gives you "the Gift of Righteousness".

How do you get that?

Jesus said..."you must be Born again"......and that is based on God forgiving all your sin, and now being a forgiven. Believer, God gives them the NEW BIRTH...= they eternally become a "new Creation in Christ", as "One with God". "Made righteous".

Misunderstood. We present ourselves to God as a living sacrifice in order to be CRUCIFIED in the outer man. God decides if He takes that sacrifice or not. He is not forced in any way to receive us. He weighs the hearts.

What you wrote is just bizarre and has nothing to do with CHRISTianity.

Listen..

"all that call on the name of Jesus shall be saved".

"to all who worketh not, but Believe on Him who Justifies THE UNGODLY>.. their FAITH is counted by God, as righteousness".

""""Its according to Gods MERCY that He SAVED US"

Jesus said...>"ALL who believe in Me, i give unto them eternal Life, and they shall never go to Hell (perish).""""

All who are born again, have become ="THE righteousness of God, in Christ".

The only reason God wont have you (anyone) , is because you won't have Jesus as your Savior.

So, once a person believes in Jesus, then their "Faith is counted by God, as Christ's Righteousness" and they are "Justified by Faith" "without works or deeds of the Law".

What do they become as born again? ?????????

1.) Heir of God
2.) Joint Heir with Jesus
3.) a Saint.
4.) Seated in Heavenly places in Christ
5.) A Brethren
6.) A Son/Daughter of God
7.) THE Temple of the Holy Spirit
8.) Redeemed by the BLOOD of the Lamb
9.) Born again
10.) New Creation IN Christ as "one with God".

To complete our salvation we must go to God and meet Him personally.

WE go to God =, through the Cross of Christ.

John 14:6

There is no other "WAY".

 

[APAK]

I think the Spirit relays his message to us so differently, what do you think?

I must admit I’ve got extreme in my thinking, I’ve even told members how they should become Born Again,hehehe..

Seriously, we’re all learning, I know I am, I enjoy reading your posts APAX...the Spirit speaks to me through them...of course I don’t understand everything..as I’m still growing and maturing in the Spirit..until the day I die..

Thanks for the confidence boost RJ.

I do know some of your experiences, part of mine of the past aswell.

We are apt to be quick to the draw on someone when no one is actually pointing at us. I do it a bit myself. My wife is much calmer....thank God!

With me over the years, the spirit somehow finds a way to tell me I'm doing the right thing or sometimes to correct my path. It's amazing and I cannot really explain it in just words. It's like a combo of thoughts and heartfelt experiences along with my interaction with others, even yourself, and many others at times, especially my wife, that causes me to then become thankful, humble and even to repent overtime, at times. I know its not my old-self, it the new me still developing inside of me, into the mind of Christ.

Curious, where abouts in England, I take it, are you from? I hail via New Zealand, until after High School, and before that, from Nottingham and birthed in Leicester.

Blessing RJ

 

[APAK]

I didnt say you changed anything.
I just posted the verses so that you have the opportunity to go and study them.

And im glad you are "eager to serve".

So.....Start here.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God"...

Study the Bible. A real one, not a false one.

Also..

Let me give you some good things to study., as you want to serve, right?
Then serve by being a good student.
To be a good student, @APAK, you have to know where and what to study.

Go here. :

Romans 3:21-28
Hebrews 13:9
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 3:17
Romans 4:8.

If you will study those, then they will lead you to Paul's theology, as He told you this.

1 Corinthians 11:1 (Study that one).

And of course you dont have to listen to me.

There is always Episkopos, and similar.

So, "have thine own way".

Thanks Behold and for the clarification.....love your clear expansion of your thoughts.. you do not hide much....

 

[Episkopos]

No,

the Gospel is that Jesus died for ALL your sin, so that God could forgive it, and thereby accept you as His own, based on the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

This is "the gift of Salvation".

False. The word for remission of sins...aphesis means FREEDOM. You would have that be freedom TO SIN as opposed to the biblical freedom FROM sin. Why? Because God can no longer see you..or so you think.

The Cross is given to sinners, who are lost and are going to die in THEIR SINS< = if they are not forgiven by God through Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross.

False as can be. The cross is not about forgiveness of sins...it is about atonement...the cleansing of sins into holiness.

God has always been merciful to the meek, the poor those who suffer injustice...etc. The problem is when you get a lot of privileged Westerners redefine the gospel to serve their own needs.

The Preaching of that Message, Is the "Preaching of the Cross" and that is The Gospel of the Grace of God.

false. The preaching of the cross is the loss of the sin nature in the individual believer...in order to walk as Jesus walked...in HIS resurrection life.

If you own a bible, you'd be smart to read, and believe....

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 3:21-28



The word says, "be ye Holy as I (God) am Holy".
However, you of yourself can never by Holy, as you've already sinned.

False. God cleanses people through the blood of Christ....from ALL unrighteousness.

So, the only Holiness that a sinner can have is if God gives you "the Gift of Righteousness".

How do you get that?

Jesus said..."you must be Born again"......and that is based on God forgiving all your sin, and now being a forgiven. Believer, God gives them the NEW BIRTH...= they eternally become a "new Creation in Christ", as "One with God". "Made righteous".

false. Being born again is a SAMPLE of grace. Many will bury their talent and become reprobate.

What you wrote is just bizarre and has nothing to do with CHRISTianity.

You follow Luther...who believed he could sin 10,000 times a day and still be covered by grace...since God's grace is inexhaustible. However, God will not strive with men forever.

Listen..

"all that call on the name of Jesus shall be saved".

Yes indeed. But saved to WHAT? Honour or dishonour?

"to all who worketh not, but Believe on Him who Justifies THE UNGODLY>.. their FAITH is counted by God, as righteousness".

Some here call that a heresy...or..inclusivity. I happen to be one of the only ones that believes that God will justify the ungodly...unbelievers. God will have mercy on who He wills.

And by calling yourself ungodly...so you can justified...classic Freudian slip.

""""Its according to Gods MERCY that He SAVED US"

That's how we are saved...by His mercy.

Jesus said...>"ALL who believe in Me, i give unto them eternal Life, and they shall never go to Hell (perish).""""

All who are born again, have become ="THE righteousness of God, in Christ".

false. We need to be crucified and empowered by race first...then we walk in an anointing OVER sin.

The only reason God wont have you (anyone) , is because you won't have Jesus as your Savior.

He is my Saviour. But many stumble over Him..because they mistake Him for Santa Claus.

So, once a person believes in Jesus, then their "Faith is counted by God, as Christ's Righteousness" and they are "Justified by Faith" "without works or deeds of the Law".

Believes INTO Jesus...transformed by the power of grace to walk in His life and power. God's righteousness is according to POWER...not assumptions and presumptions.

What do they become as born again? ?????????

1.) Heir of God
2.) Joint Heir with Jesus
3.) a Saint.
4.) Seated in Heavenly places in Christ
5.) A Brethren
6.) A Son/Daughter of God
7.) THE Temple of the Holy Spirit
8.) Redeemed by the BLOOD of the Lamb
9.) Born again
10.) New Creation IN Christ as "one with God".



WE go to God =, through the Cross of Christ.

John 14:6

There is no other "WAY".

A dead end. Repent and believe the gospel before its too late and you are uncovered from that false covering you are hiding under.

 

[amigo de christo]

No I'm not pushing anything off to anyone. Just trying to establish the foundation. No building can stand without a foundation.

If you think I was wrong, then please explain how I was in error with those scrips I brought. Seems so clear to me what they are showing, but you feel free to explain. The gospel is to the Jew first, no? Paul was talking about the gospel in Heb. 4 in his writing to the Jews...says so right there. I'm sure many of them were believers but among them would have been some unbelievers and seekers, those still on the fence, and he was exhorting and encouraging them all with regard to the gospel.

The Law was given to them in the wilderness, not in the promised land....promised land of rest alluded to better things and was obtained by FAITH. AKA the gospel. Correct?

And just to add, I have no argument with Romans 11:17-21 at all, and often have referred to them over the years.....no idea why you think or assume that I would have a problem or any reason to want to "wiggle" out of that. ( I believe it's referring to the Israel of God, of which the Jews are the natural branches and Gentiles are the unnatural branches - commonwealth of Israel, not Israel after the flesh....but I don't know how you view that.)

speaking of the foundation . some folks are trying to REMOVE the actual foundation
and preach rather a foundation on sinking sand that has come of the social inclusive mindset .
JESUS BE THE FOUNDATION . yet more and more are trying to omit the dire need to have to BELIEVE on HIM and
rather be preaching total destruction unto all .

 

[Episkopos]

speaking of the foundation . some folks are trying to REMOVE the actual foundation
and preach rather a foundation on sinking sand that has come of the social inclusive mindset .
JESUS BE THE FOUNDATION . yet more and more are trying to omit the dire need to have to BELIEVE on HIM and
rather be preaching total destruction unto all .

Lizbeth testifies that the foundation is found in her. (Christ in her)

If you know ABOUT the foundation...being Christ...then why not go to Him and build from there? Why remain vain in your religious notions?

 

[amigo de christo]

Lizbeth testifies that the foundation is found in her. (Christ in her)

If you know ABOUT the foundation...being Christ...then why not go to Him and build from there? Why remain vain in your religious notions?

it is you , my friend and not i , who remains vain and in his religious notions of men gone wrong .

 

[Ritajanice]

Thanks for the confidence boost RJ.

I do know some of your experiences, part of mine of the past aswell.

We are apt to be quick to the draw on someone when no one is actually pointing at us. I do it a bit myself. My wife is much calmer....thank God!

With me over the years, the spirit somehow finds a way to tell me I'm doing the right thing or sometimes to correct my path. It's amazing and I cannot really explain it in just words. It's like a combo of thoughts and heartfelt experiences along with my interaction with others, even yourself, and many others at times, especially my wife, that causes me to then become thankful, humble and even to repent overtime, at times. I know its not my old-self, it the new me still developing inside of me, into the mind of Christ.

That’s exactly how it is with me in the Spirit, I cannot explain it either, and yes, it is like a combo of thoughts and heartfelt experiences, it is indeed , the new you still developing inside of you, into the mind of Christ, I couldn’t have explained it better myself, ..we are all developing inside of us ,into the mind of Christ, what better mind to have than his, Praise His Holy Name!..

Curious, where abouts in England, I take it, are you from? I hail via New Zealand, until after High School, and before that, from Nottingham and birthed in Leicester.

Blessing RJ

I live in Hampshire, I’m afraid I’m rooted here, although I spent a few years in Aberdeen/ Lossiemouth in Scotland.

Just found this online.

He is "at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us" (Rom. 8:34). To have the mind of Christ is to put priority on prayer, to cover and saturate all you do by prayer, and to pray without ceasing. To have the mind of Christ is to share His intercessory burden for the church and the world.

 

[Episkopos]

it is you , my friend and not i , who remains vain and in his religious notions of men gone wrong .

Ha...you never even mentioned the dire need to believe about Jesus.. you are slipping.

 

[Behold]

False. The word for remission of sins...aphesis means FREEDOM.

"without the shedding of Blood there is no remission no forgiveness".

Sins have to be forgiven, or as Jesus told you....."you'll die in your sins".

For them to be forgiven, you have to go to The Cross and let Jesus die for them all.

False as can be. The cross is not about forgiveness of sins...it is about atonement...the cleansing of sins into holiness.

To say that the Cross is not about forgiveness, is SATANIC Theology.

God has always been merciful

"God be merciful to me a sinner'.

That means you, me, and everyone as "all have sinned"

That mercy is found as The Cross of Christ.

false. The preaching of the cross is the loss of the sin nature i

The preaching of the Cross is the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

Its this.

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

False. God cleanses people through the blood of Christ....from ALL unrighteousness.

"without the shedding of Blood there is no remission, no forgiveness"

and where is this Shed Blood of Jesus found?

A.) The Cross of Christ

false. Being born again is a SAMPLE of grace. Many will bury their talent and become reprobate.

Being born again is proof that God has forgiven your sin and given you the new birth, as this is to become "a new Creation in Christ'
If Christ does not have your sin, on the Cross, then you stil have it, and you'll die in it.

Dont be that one, as there is no 2nd Chance in Hell.

You follow Luther..

I only teach Paul's Theology.
Or as Paul told the born again..

"be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"

So, we follow his Doctrine and his Discipleship and His Faith .

And by calling yourself ungodly...so you can justified...classic Freudian slip.

I quoted the verse.

Thank you for thinking that i wrote it. as i only posted it.

I appreciate that compliment, but alas, Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote it.

That's how we are saved...by His mercy.

God's mercy endure forever.. and that mercy is found as the Sacrifice as Jesus on the Cross.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.. .Eternal Sacrifice for sin"...

That's The CROSS of CHRIST.

false. We need to be crucified and empowered by race first...then we walk in an anointing OVER sin.

Salvation is God's Son, given as John 3:16., to all who will BELIEVE.

The Cross of Christ is the only WAY to heaven, as its the only offer of redemption that God offers.
This is why Jesus said........that to go to the Father, you have to go to Christ as the WAY... John 14:6

Thats The Cross of Christ.

He is my Saviour. But many stumble over Him..because they mistake Him for Santa Claus.

Santa Claus didnt die for anyone's sin, and Old Saint Nick has no nail scarred hands.
And, he never rose from the dead after dying for the sin of the world.

Believes INTO Jesus...transformed by the power of grace to walk in His life and power.

We believe in Christ so that God will ... = "faith is counted by God as Christ's righteousness"..
= Justification BY Faith.

And now being redeemed by the Blood of Jesus, (new Covenant) (Blood atonement) we are become a disciple.

Some are good, some are not. Both are going to heaven, because they are born again.

A disciple now learns what it means to have become one "in Christ", and how to exist in that Spiritual reality.

They dont know anything about this, on day 1, right after they are born again.
But, they grow in understanding, provided they have a good teacher, and are led of the Spirit, and study the word.

God's righteousness is according to POWER...not assumptions and presumptions.

God Righteousness is God's.
And we have to have it, or God can't (accept). have us.
The only way to get it is to be forgiven and born again.
As in this REDEMPTION< God gives to us.. "The Gift of Righteousness"

This is not a process.
Its a GIFT..

A dead end. Repent and believe the gospel before its too late and you are uncovered from that false covering you are hiding under.

Ive just taught you the Gospel in 3 fairly long posts and you don't recognize it.

 

[APAK]

That’s exactly how it is with me in the Spirit, I cannot explain it either, and yes, it is like a combo of thoughts and heartfelt experiences, it is indeed , the new you still developing inside of you, into the mind of Christ, I couldn’t have explained it better myself, ..we are all developing inside of us ,into the mind of Christ, what better mind to have than his, Praise His Holy Name!..

I live in Hampshire, I’m afraid I’m rooted here, although I spent a few years in Aberdeen/ Lossiemouth in Scotland.

Just found this online.

He is "at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us" (Rom. 8:34). To have the mind of Christ is to put priority on prayer, to cover and saturate all you do by prayer, and to pray without ceasing. To have the mind of Christ is to share His intercessory burden for the church and the world.

Great quote you are sharing.....I've 'naturally' increased my prayer time over the years. and this is not done at a set time....it's as the spirit guides me...in bed, cleaning around the house, in the car, at this keyboard praying for others etc. for my wife a lot....health issues.

In Hampshire, aye...I used to live for a few years in NEW Hampshire, of these United States of America...close enough right?