Are You Dead to Self?

[amigo de christo]

"In this time of delusional doctrines and traditions of men, we are called to walk the separated path:

To lose our life now in order to gain it now and forever
...whether by grace or by one's best efforts
...remaining humble and teachable throughout in an attitude of self-sacrifice:

...to intercede on behalf of others for the cause of Christ
...to be good soldiers of Jesus Christ
...to find our duty and to do the will of God.

Jesus on the cross, yes, but we also with Him:
experiencing the power of the cross--rejoicing at the crushing of the outer man--glorying in the cross of Christ.

That's what we're called to in the high calling of Christ."

Who you think works in us that which is well pleasing IN HIS SIGHT . GOD DO .
It is by grace . mans best efforts , aside from faith , aside from the true grace of GOD
which calls a man to repent to believe on JESUS the CHRIST , its all vain .
budda and good works will save none but damn all
muhammed and good works will save none but damn all
as will any other mindset no matter what little good works they did .
The beginning of grace IS TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
and let the Grace of GOD teach us to deny all ungodliness , wordly lusts
to be living soberly , righteously and godly in this present world
as we hasten unto the coming of KING JESUS . Mans best efforts to attain
righteousness , FALLS FAR SHORT of the RIGHTEOUS and GLORY OF GOD .
FOR all have sinned and fall short of the GLORY of GOD .
But i know ONE WHO DIDNT . HE came to save sinners . HIS NAME BE JESUS THE CHRIST
and its high time folks remind this church age of the dire need to remind folks about the dire need to BELIEVE ON HIM
and to teach them all THINGS HE Did teach as did the apostels .
We are to stir one another up and remind one another , and correct all sin and error within the church .

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you consider yourself good?

The only goodness i have cometh of GOD .
Cling to Christ , heed the Spirit .
That was a good question .
Now i have one .
WHO Is GOOD . but GOD ONLY .
SO the next time anyone tries to say , HEY amigo stop judging them false religoins
their are good people in every religoin , TRY REMINDING THEM , that NONE ARE GOOD
and that ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY of GOD and thus ALL NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
DO be encouraged now .

 

[quietthinker]

The only goodness i have cometh of GOD .
Cling to Christ , heed the Spirit .
That was a good question .
Now i have one .
WHO Is GOOD . but GOD ONLY .
SO the next time anyone tries to say , HEY amigo stop judging them false religoins
their are good people in every religoin , TRY REMINDING THEM , that NONE ARE GOOD
and that ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY of GOD and thus ALL NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
DO be encouraged now .

Dear amigo, it is needful to keep the pressure in the boiler, not blow it all out the whistle.....otherwise the wheels go nowhere!

 

[APAK]

"In this time of delusional doctrines and traditions of men, we are called to walk the separated path:

To lose our life now in order to gain it now and forever
...whether by grace or by one's best efforts
...remaining humble and teachable throughout in an attitude of self-sacrifice:

...to intercede on behalf of others for the cause of Christ
...to be good soldiers of Jesus Christ
...to find our duty and to do the will of God.

Jesus on the cross, yes, but we also with Him:
experiencing the power of the cross--rejoicing at the crushing of the outer man--glorying in the cross of Christ.

That's what we're called to in the high calling of Christ."

Is this a mission statement of an existing religious cult?

This is not the first time such a mission statement has been composed. Highfalutin words from the same type of people who have no idea how to go about living these words without performing some unique-extra-scriptural God-uninspired self-righteous works.

And many who believe in these empty and delusional words have gone astray in the end.

Yes, we are warned in scripture to walk away from those that preach a strange, egotistical, delusional and lying gospel, of strange hidden spiritual paths, wooing people into hidden doors of untruth. This leads to false methods to salvation, whilst using self-righteous works to actually attempt to be, today, in the flesh, perfect, sinless and possess the same identity as Jesus the Christ. This is the sort of things they preach., 'whether through grace or one's best efforts....really?!

Therefore, spiritual vigilance and discernment is vital.

I would not suggest 'crushing' the outer man, it would not glorify God at all, it would displease him dearly. It would be a self-defeating act of self-righteousness to even consider such a thing. We still need our bodies to live in this world. I want to still live in my flesh today, at least out of God's will and necessity.

No, more precisely, scripture calls believers to mortify, or put to death, the deeds of the flesh/outer man (Romans 8:13, Colossians 3:5). And this cannot be done without the aid of the Spirit of God.

And this is not a one-time event, but a continuous process of surrendering to God and submitting to the Holy Spirit, if and ONLY if we are already reborn in the Spirit Of God who leads us to be as Christ, NOT of his exact same identity however!

God calls us to this spiritual life of a growing and maturing walk, not on/by our own carnal self-righteous terms, only on his holy terms.

Then after a genuine rebirth event, transforming (present tense) into a new INNER man, can we then begin to slowly walk and grow into spiritual match fitness and strength of faith as a seed grows into a mature and useful form. We learn in time, and His time, to do his will, and thus continually lose our lives as we repent of occasional sin and walk towards the Cross everyday to 'lose our lives'.

Then we shall see our lives differently, and over time we lose interest in and of the outer man that causes much warfare with our new spirit as we continue ridding ourselves of its sinful works, and of the world. We learn how to tame the outer man in the process.

Let me making it quite clear, this so-called 'high' calling as if there is also a 'low' calling, and there isn't, is really the spiritual instinctive attraction from God to a mature spiritual life in Christ, as all true faithful reborn believers already know. There is no assumption of delusion about it whatsoever.

We are ALL called to walk a spiritual life that brings us ever-closer to God's presence, every day, that then distances ourselves from our physical natural state, including the world, that both contribute to sin and greatly displeases the Father.

 

[Episkopos]

Hello Episkopos, What is the name of The Book? Thank you.

Love, Walter

It's "The Sum of All Possibilities in Christ" <>< :)

Amazon.com

 

[Episkopos]

"Globalism" is a religion that seeks to "dumb down" all of humanity, so that as one "vicious mob" living in a world without borders... .. the Anti-Christ can come and "take over" and "show them the way" to take the "mark".

What is dumbing down is the name-it claim-it false gospel of easy-peasy accept Jesus religion based on self-interest...inventing grace and filling pews. The religious system is anti-truth as the truth tends to empty the pews...so the flesh is being catered to to keep the customers happy. That is the way of better finances and appearances. But....True seekers of God don't stay in pews.

The truth in our time has been so watered down and twisted that it can be accepted by the flesh.

And you want to publish that kind of iniquity...thinking God approves of it...but the only approval it can get is from men who likewise resist the truth.

 

[APAK]

(Rom 8:13) " For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

Translation: if we live to do only natural, self-righteous carnal deeds of the physical body we will surely spiritually die, and the flesh will die later anyway. On the other hand, if we, through our inner man or spirit, as genuine born again new creature, constantly, as a new ongoing and maturing lifestyle, arrest these fleshly temptations and deeds, we will live in the spirit beyond this life of the physical body or outer man. There is not profit or gain in the flesh, only eventual death (2x).

Vital signs of true spiritual eternal life today within a person, are being right with God, of repentant sin, in holiness, by producing fruit(s) and the righteous works of God's spirit within us, through his Son, the embodiment of his Father, God. Amen.

(Rom 8:14) " For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. "

This is the beauty and wonder of Being one of God’s Children!


Can I hear an Amen in the house of God...

 

[Episkopos]

(Rom 8:13) " For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

Translation: if we live to do only natural, self-righteous carnal deeds of the physical body we will surely spiritually die, and the flesh will die later anyway. On the other hand, if we, through our inner man or spirit, as genuine born again new creature, constantly, as a new ongoing and maturing lifestyle, arrest these fleshly temptations and deeds, we will live in the spirit beyond this life of the physical body or outer man. There is not profit or gain in the flesh, only eventual death (2x).

Vital signs of true spiritual eternal life today within a person, are being right with God, of repentant sin, in holiness, by producing fruit(s) and the righteous works of God's spirit within us, through his Son, the embodiment of his Father, God. Amen.

(Rom 8:14) " For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. "

This is the beauty and wonder of Being one of God’s Children!


Can I hear an Amen in the house of God...

You are missing the context of Paul's words here. Living and dying in the NT is not a physical thing...no, it is spiritual. Paul says in Romans 7 that sin revived and |he died|. Did he physically die? No, otherwise he would not have been able to write Romans 8.

What does dying mean in this context?....being separated from the Lord. Of course you will not understand the spiritual process of being conformed to Christ. But I have to lay it out.

In Romans 8 Paul is describing the higher walk...being empowered by the Spirit to walk in God's immediate presence...without sin. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets us free from the law of sin and death. Is this about the ten commandments? No.

For the one who walks in the Spirit....the flesh brings death...or a falling away from that level of intimacy with God. Sin separates us from God. Living after the flesh does the same thing. Of course a person who has always walked after the flesh doesn't notice anything different..so then that person will think that dying comes later after judgment. But that is NOT the context of Romans 8. It's not about an after life.

If we continue to walk in Christ by the power of His life, then we will continue to live and walk in His presence. We can still choose to do what we want. God never takes away our choices even when we are crucified to NOT do what we normally would.

 

[Lizbeth]

I repeat, let’s “ HEAR” the Living Holy Spirit speak Gods truth deep into our hearts, that is where you truly know him listeners.

Then check out what you hear the Living Holy Spirit speaking to your heart with His written word, if what you heard isn’t there it wasn’t From Gods witness His Holy Spirit.

Listeners you don’t need any Bible reading to become Born Of The Spirit.

You need God’s Living word, His witness the Holy Spirit, then His Living word testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, is backed up by His written word.

I hardly ever read the Bible, what I write comes from the Living Holy Spirit, which I check the written word before I post.

God chose me for his purpose and plan.

Not, I repeat not for my purpose and plan....I do not constantly need my head in the Bible..

There is no competition between the Holy Spirit and the word of God......they agree....the Spirit and the word agree......we need both. Two witnesses are needed to establish the truth, as scripture itself testifies. Bible also says the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation. They are a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path......lighting the way for us. We need the lamp (word of God) and we also need the oil for our lamps (Holy Spirit)......both. We need the Holy Spirit for both understanding and power/strength....together they are the sword of the Lord, our weapon that is mighty in God for the tearing down of strongholds. Bible says the scriptures are....."profitable" for us......and that is written in the word in an understated way.

There are so many scriptures that talk about loving, cherishing and treasuring God's word. Hiding it in our hearts....we need to do that. Many believers don't bother to know the word of God for themselves, but instead let others teach them what they think they mean. That's a recipe for disaster. Or they teach a false doctrine and cherry pick verses that appear by themselves to back up their doctrine, without looking at the whole counsel of God. It's hard to test things without God's word, I mean discernment is one way but then we need to be able to even test our discernment. Discernment is also informed and sharpened by the word of God.....knowing His word well helps you to discern...it all works hand in hand.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

It's "The Sum of All Possibilities in Christ" <>< :)

Amazon.com

Hello Episkopos, and thank you :)

Love, Walter

 

[Lizbeth]

beware for sie final solutoin to merge all to be as one under a lie is on the move .
The dire necessity to preach ON JESUS THE CHRIST is BEING REMOVED under guise of a false love .
and its gonna take them all right into the lie .
they are gonna , as some arleady are , merge with all religoins .
the athiest will beieve in THIS LOVE and all other religoins will believe IN THIS LOVE and that is of GOD .
Behold , i cant keep up with it . Its come in and is growing faster and faster .
All i can do as that which i have been doing , GIVE OUT NO FALSE HOPE
NO FALSE LOVE , NO SIN HONORING LOVE , POINTING ONLY to THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST
and reminding all HE is not the minstir of sin either . He is not the author of unbelief .
THE LOVE OF GOD will never honor unbelief in CHRIST . it will never honor any sin , NOR THE SIN OF UNBELIEF .
BUT THIS LOVE they preach honors certain sins and it grows worse and now honors
even the sin of unbelief as it cliams other religoins serve the same GOD we do , so long as they
had this so called lovey do good works . Which REALLY IS a means to control the religoins
and merge them as one to serve a WORLD SOCIALLY ENGINEERED AGENDA . beware , its here
and its on the rise .

Amen. Unbelief is sin, it is not righteousness.....and the bible says they are condemned already who don't believe in the Son of God.

I think nobody can keep up with this or stop it.......since it is God's judgment on the world and worldly church that has and is being infiltrated by the spirit of the world. People are being and will be deceived to give their power to the beast.....and that is pretty much the definition of idolatry. It becomes a spiritual bondage of being under the control of what one has made into an idol. But it is the Lord who is sending the deception/delusion to all who love not the truth. Like a cult spirit infecting people. And nothing can stop what has been foretold, though we hope and try, that more individual souls might wake up to this and be spared.

 

[Ritajanice]

There is no competition between the Holy Spirit and the word of God......they agree....the Spirit and the word agree......we need both. Two witnesses are needed to establish the truth, as scripture itself testifies. Bible also says the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation. They are a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path......lighting the way for us. We need the lamp (word of God) and we also need the oil for our lamps (Holy Spirit)......both. We need the Holy Spirit for both understanding and power/strength....together they are the sword of the Lord, our weapon that is mighty in God for the tearing down of strongholds. Bible says the scriptures are....."profitable" for us......and that is written in the word in an understated way.

We need to be Born Of The Living Holy Spirit...

Make us wise unto salvation?

We are saved when our spirit has been Born Of The Spirit..our spirit needs to be Born Again...a supernatural spiritual rebirth.

There are so many scriptures that talk about loving, cherishing and treasuring God's word. Hiding it in our hearts.

What word do we hide in our hearts?

...we need to do that. Many believers don't bother to know the word of God for themselves, but instead let others teach them what they think they mean

I don’t, I wait to hear the message from the Living Holy Spirit, then I check what he says with the written word.

. That's a recipe for disaster. Or they teach a false doctrine and cherry pick verses that appear by themselves to back up their doctrine

Only Born Again scripture speaks to my heart, not all scripture we understand.not all scripture is meant for a Born Again, the Holy Spirit leads us to understand God’s truth, we understand his truth in our hearts, that’s where it should resonate, not the head...then what we hear needs to be checked with the written word.

, without looking at the whole counsel of God. It's hard to test things without God's word, I mean discernment is one way but then we need to be able to even test our discernment. Discernment is also informed and sharpened by the word of God.....knowing His word well helps you to discern...it all works hand in hand.

It’s hard to test the true meaning of Gods word, without His witness the Living Holy Spirit.

Discernment is a gift from God via His Living Holy Spirit.

We need to know His Living word, deep within our hearts.

I repented once, I no longer sin for a Born Again can’t sin because they have been Born of Gods seed?

Not all this superficial religious talk...my testimony and belief.

 

[APAK]

You are missing the context of Paul's words here. Living and dying in the NT is not a physical thing...no, it is spiritual.

You continue yet again to amaze me in that you are slow to comprehend my words..

No, I do usually have context in mind for scripture. I believe I speak of spiritual living in the life, beyond today in spirit, and also, concurrently, as we live physically in this mortal today. I think it impossible to do, and live any other way. It's not that hard to understand and yet you have managed to confuse or misunderstand my words or its meaning.

Do I have to break it down again? SPIRITUAL LIVING and speaking of it: we both increase our spiritual life with the Kingdom as we in turn decrease our spiritual dependence of the flesh and the world. And we know when we are maturing as we maintain in this increasing faith the presence of God and less in spirit of this body and the world. Why are you so confused, it's beyond me.

I don't know if I can describe it much better in words. Maybe an uploaded diagram will help. I guess I can do that for you as it's so essential to grasp this point.

 

[APAK]

@Episkopos... I'll tell you what, let me do a Romans, chapter 8 review, as a diagram, as I believe that will make you more comfortable, as I see you lately speak in terms of Chapters and summary meanings etc. And it will without a doubt lay any suspicion I'm somehow wanting to hid or evade any context, for reasons I unimaginable to me at least.

Give me some time...

 

[APAK]

Well I decided just to do a top-level cover chart for Romans Chapter 8 only, and the text below it speaks volumes.




Romans Chapter 8 is a pivotal Pauline discussion of the new spirit life in Christ; for those who are genuinely reborn of the Spirit of God that dwells in his Son's spirit, and thus in a genuine believer. And this Spirit comprises of several embedded spirit characteristics and functions spoken of outside the scope of this Chapter 8.

The context:

The audience of Romans Chapter 8 is to Christians, specifically those who are living in Rome, who are primarily non-Jews. They are likely well-educated and met in house churches, practicing their faith as a minority in a pagan culture of many deities and the cult of emperor worship.

Paul wrote to these believers to present salvation to them, as stated in Romans 1:16-17. He addresses the unrighteousness of all people, including his Roman non-Jew readers, Jews, and all people on the face of the earth (Romans 1:18-20, 2:1-3:8).

As Christians, they are those who have been saved by their faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:23-26). Paul emphasizes the security of their salvation, stating that there is no condemnation for those in Christ (Romans 8:1) and that nothing will ever be able to separate them from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39)

Thus, Chapter 8 can be divided into three main sections: the believer's deliverance from condemnation of sin in the law or otherwise in the world (Romans 8:1-11), the real Christian’s life in the Spirit of God, today (Romans 8:12-17), and the Christian’s real future glory at the time of the consummation in complete perfect eternal living, always in the presence of God via his new house and temple (Romans 8:18-39).

1. Deliverance from Condemnation (Romans 8:1-11)

Paul begins by stating that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1). He emphasizes that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set them free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2). The Spirit gives life, while the flesh leads to death (Romans 8:6). Paul argues that those who live according to and for the flesh, in this life will die, but those who live according to, and are willingly lead by the Spirit will live, forever (Romans 8:13).

2. Life in the Spirit (Romans 8:12-17)

Paul then contrasts the life today, in the flesh with the life in the Spirit. Those who live in the flesh cannot please God, even if they do religious things, self-effort works, outside of the Spirit of God, and who are commonly admired, and can even become shiny, enticing and attractive objects of even idol worship by men (Romans 8:8). In contrast, those who live in the Spirit, live in Christ's spirit, and possess or are capable of being the exact image of the mind of Christ, as Christ is this perfect image of his Father (Romans 8:6). Paul encourages believers to put to 'death' the deeds of the body (the flesh) and to live according to the Spirit (Romans 8:13). He also emphasizes that the Spirit of God within us and in Christ, intercedes for believers during times of pain and groaning; when we are in need of vital spiritual nourishment and care (Romans 8:26-27).

3. Future Glory (Romans 8:18-39)

Paul looks forward to the future glory that awaits all genuine believers. He writes that the 'new creation' waits for the revelation of the sons of God, and that genuine believers are the firstfruits of the Spirit (Romans 8:19-23). He also affirms that nothing can separate believers from the love of God, not even death or life, nor angels or principalities or things present or things to come (Romans 8:38-39). Eternal life security that began in this life, and into the next one, is assured.

Conclusion

Romans Chapter 8 is a powerful reminder of the real believer’s spiritual life. It emphasizes the importance of living today according to the Spirit, rather than the flesh, and looks forward to the future glory that awaits all believers in Christ's spirit. The chapter provides comfort and reassurance to all genuine believers, reminding them that they are free from condemnation and death, and that nothing can separate them from God’s love. They are sealed within the Spirit of God forever.

 

[APAK]

If one thinks in a view 'below' the mere words of a spirit or the inner or outer man with the flesh, delving further into the components of a human being, it might be diagrammatically drawn as such below:

The soul as the adjustable. movable, changeable component and its position dictates if one is operating in the inner or outer man, and used many times in scripture as the spirit of man.

 

[Behold]

What is dumbing down is the name-it claim-it false gospel of easy-peasy accept Jesus religion based on self-interest...inventing grace

Christianity is based on "Accepting Jesus"....... by Faith.

God would that "all believe"... and not all will, but all are invited to receive Christ, by Faith.

As i read your posted theology of self effort, i realized 2 things.. @Episkopos

1.) you have not answered the question that you've been asked......at least 3 times, and that is.. "what are your Spiritual Tests"?

Still waiting for that answer.

2.) Your post is typical of someone who does not understand the difference between SALVATION and Discipleship..

= Salvation is What God does for us... as "the Gift of Salvation" and "The Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of Eternal life'".. that are given to sinners who have come to God, through faith in Christ..

So, THAT is what God provides...

And now that this is provided, the Believer, born again, is engaged in DISCIPLESHIP = "present your body as a living Sacrifice to GOD, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

So, the SERVICE, that is our walk of faith, = that is our commitment to the lifestyle, that is our denying self...... and so forth.....

That is our DISCIPLESHIP....and its not our Salvation.

JESUS is our : SALVATION.....John 14:6

Salvation is what God has provided as Jesus's Cross.. and once we are redeemed, forgiven, and made righteous, based on Jesus's blood and death (Sacrifice), and we become born again....

= THEN, we are to present that SERVICE to God, as our DISCIPLESHIP.

 

[Hepzibah]

I believed this for many years - well 17 in total after coming to the Lord in prayer one evening at 9 pm on Sept 23rd 1973. I had been brought up an atheist and all of my extended family were atheists as far as I knew - religion was never mentioned. One of my grandfathers came from Northern Ireland so maybe that was why. His family were Orange Men - anti Catholic.

So anyway, I had not met a born again Evangelical at all and although we had Religious Instruction at school, I only knew the basics till I met a young couple (I was 23) and he was training in the ministry. They were born again and loaned me their books, including CS Lewis, which I devoured.

However, they all said that he only way was through Jesus Christ and I had been looking at non Christian religions searching for the truth about if there was a God. So one night, the one mentioned, I asked God to show me the truth and suddenly He revealed it and Himself on the cross to me. I immediately believed.

Going to church was a big change for me coming from a non churched background and this is what I was told - that I was born again and the above from APAK, but you know, it didn't work. I mean by that, I was not walking as Jesus walked and in victory even though my previous passions for smoking and drinking had gone and all I wanted to do was obey God.

And so it went on - I read and heard all of these things and just did not go deep into whether they were happening in my life even though I loved the Lord and what He had done for me, taking me out of a self centered life. I struggled and when I asked how to be the sort of believer I saw in the Bible I only got a 'try harder' reply.

Eventually, it got to a crisis. Some of this has been because of my background of childhood abuse, which made it harder to 'put a good face on' and for that I am eternal grateful. I was unable to mix in with other believers because I was traumatized and felt unable to feel part of them.

God reached out and gave me deliverance however in that He showed me that there was another step to take in absolute submission to Him and the truth of the extent of our obedience that was needed in thought life too.

The first command is to love the Lord your God with the whole heart soul and mind, and if I was honest I was not there yet. The Lord showed me that I had been that way once but had fallen from it and if we are in that position we are lukewarm and guess what He says about that? Read it.

He delivered me in one fell swoop and at last I was living the crucified life. The door is open to all who have ears to hear. The verses that are being quoted are for the crucified life, not for the early stage.

 

[Episkopos]

If one thinks in a view 'below' the mere words of a spirit or the inner or outer man with the flesh, delving further into the components of a human being, it might be diagrammatically drawn as such below:

The soul as the adjustable. movable, changeable component and its position dictates if one is operating in the inner or outer man, and used many times in scripture as the spirit of man.

View attachment 45680

This diagram is showing what The bible considers a still divided heart....WANTING to be whole but unable to be because the power of the cross is missing. One who is in the Romans 8 walk has his life HIDDEN in God...fully above the line of separation within the soul. So the above diagram shows a person the the Romans 7 stage where there is a mixture...in the wilderness walk. For it to be in Romans 8 the living soul part is cut in two or pulled apart so that the inner man is fully enveloped by God's righteousness.

 

[Episkopos]

Christianity is based on "Accepting Jesus"....... by Faith.

False. You can't accept your way into the kingdom of God. You have to be translated into it by God.

God would that "all believe"... and not all will, but all are invited to receive Christ, by Faith.

Don't confuse human religious beliefs and NT faith.

As i read your posted theology of self effort, i realized 2 things.. @Episkopos

You espouse a self-effort...and a self-justification.

1.) you have not answered the question that you've been asked......at least 3 times, and that is.. "what are your Spiritual Tests"?

Still waiting for that answer.

As usual you ask the wrong questions. The spiritual test of being a believer today in the wilderness training of God.... is whether we will believe that God can do the seemingly impossible...translate us to walk WHERE He is. Just like the Israelites could NOT believe they could possess the land physically (as (I've said many times) we are to possess the land spiritually.