Deconstruction Part 2: Into Apostolicity

[Ronald David Bruno]

Holiness is about presence. Even non-believers admit to being humbled and in awe in God's presence. It takes a lot of religious certainty, and indoctrination to say that God's presence is evil...

Ekeinos means ,"He". He is a masculine pronoun that refers to the Holy Spirit when in context.
Jesus said the Father will send you " another Helper," the Comforter, Who speaks, guides, loves, convicts, gives wisdom, knowledge, counsel, sanctification, edification and lives and communes with us. He will bring to our remembrance all the things Christ said, on complete harmony with - nothing more, nothing less.
And now I will send the Holy Spirit, just as my Father promised. But stay here in the city until the Holy Spirit comes and fills you with power from heaven.”
Luke 25:49
Jesus promised that the *Holy Spirit would teach the disciples. The Holy Spirit would help them to remember what Jesus had taught them (John 14:26). The *Holy Spirit would teach the people about sin, goodness and judgement (John 16:8).
The Holy Spirit is always referred to as a person by Jesus and about 97% of Christiandom. If this Binitarian theology was true, millions of scholars (brilliant scholars) would have received it.

YOU are out on a limb, walking on this incongruent, unspiritual path as you are determined to promote.. Your theology is disabled without a relationship with the Holy Spirit. Your ministry ( as other non- Trinitarian ministries) will not grow - as we have all seen them not grow or at best, at a snail's pace. It's just not blessed.



If it was the Father, Who is Spirit, He would have said the Father will send His Spirit. But He said " another Helper. Then also the MATT. 28:19 would only read that we are to be baptized in the name of the Father and in the name of the Son. BUT THE NAME OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THERE!
I am breaking the rules again, so I'll stop here.
GOODBYE.

 

[Johann]

Amen. He died for our sins, to atone for them in our stead. Not that hard of a concept but Epi likes to confuse and convolute what is simple. God is not the author of confusion, but that comes from elsewhere.

I think he visits Chabad.org and I am eternally grateful to our Lord Christ Jesus died FOR our sins, in our stead. Epi is majoring on minors here.

In Isaiah 53:5-6, the Hebrew text uses the preposition מִ (mi) to indicate that Jesus was pierced and crushed for our transgressions and iniquities, emphasizing the substitutionary nature of his suffering.

In the New Testament passages (1 Corinthians 15:3 and Romans 5:8), the Greek preposition ὑπὲρ (huper) is used, which denotes "for the sake of," "on behalf of," or "in the place of."

This preposition indicates that Jesus died in our place to bear the penalty of our sins.

These verses clearly affirm the biblical teaching that Jesus' death was not merely a result of our sins but was intentionally for the purpose of atoning for our sins, reconciling us to God, and demonstrating God's love for humanity. This theological concept of substitutionary atonement is foundational in both Old and New Testament teachings about the Messiah's mission and the salvation of mankind.

I love this verse--

Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.

Shalom
J.

 

[Behold]

“behold are you saying we are to do nothing for God.”
I wouldn’t call bearing fruit unto God nothing. When it’s everything.

Actually, Paul teaches it like this..

"Present your body (yourself) to GOD, as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

See that?

"its a reasonable service"... its not your SALVATION...its your "SERVICE".

Its the discipleship that a person enters into, AFTER they are born again... AFTER they become a : CHRISTian.

So, people who do not understand this at all..., try to COMBINE..."Salvation, as Discipleship" and that is why these confused people try to prove that you are saved and stay saved by "obedience" or 'self effort". or "keeping Christ's commandments".

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Actually, Paul teaches it like this..

"Present your body (yourself) to GOD, as a living sacrifice, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

See that?

"its a reasonable service"... its not your SALVATION...its your "SERVICE".

Paul teaches …present your body a Living sacrifice …agree.

it’s not your salvation…it’s your service. Again agree. This below…you don’t see this today, what Paul does (Christ speaking in him)towards those calling them reprobate. Somehow “service” “For we are glad when we are weak, and you are strong” gets lost in …that’s “works” not “service”

2 Corinthians 13:5-9 Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates? [6] But I trust that you shall know that we are not reprobates. [7] Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

 

[Lizbeth]

To people He was seen as a transgressor. But you are not making a distinction between what men think and what God thinks. "He was reckoned" is not the same as "And this was reckoned to Him (by God). You think they are the same...as you can claim a bible verse and maybe find some others who will attest to you having God's righteousness based on claiming a misunderstood verse. But that's man-made imputation. God doesn't impute the way men do. .


No. Isaiah 53 is not well translated. Jesus was crucified FROM our transgressions and iniquity...not FOR these. It was our sins that put Jesus on the cross..OUR SIN. Jesus suffered that for our sake...

This is where a little knowledge of Hebrew can help.


וְהוּא֙ מְחֹלָ֣ל מִפְּשָׁעֵ֔נוּ מְדֻכָּ֖א מֵֽעֲוֹֽנוֹתֵ֑ינוּ מוּסַ֚ר שְׁלוֹמֵ֙נוּ֙ עָלָ֔יו וּבַֽחֲבֻֽרָת֖וֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ:


"He was wounded FROM our transgressions, crushed FROM our iniquities: the chastisement of OUR peace (better that one man dies) was on Him, in His stripes we are healed." Is. 53:5


This has as much to do with what we are to undergo to be like Christ as it is about what Jesus underwent. We are wounded (in the outer man) away from our transgressions....we are crushed (in our egos) away FROM our own iniquities. We are healed from our selfish ways by bearing up under the stripes that are meant for Him...suffering for His name sake. We are hated for His sake.




And those who are His follow Him in that same taking on the iniquity of the religious certainty peddlers. We are likewise saved FROM our iniquity by being crucified with Him.




That's impossible. Nobody is as righteous as God is. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. No, we need to be covered by His presence which is according to His righteousness.

Man, anything to deny the higher walk...

To us....He was sinful...as our peace was disturbed. The chastisement of OUR peace was laid upon Him...to kill Him. Jesus was put to death, not by God, but at the hands of evil men.


False. Imputing means to ATTRIBUTE. People can do that in error...just as you are doing. You prove my point. People can FALSELY attribute something to someone...but God can't. So then you attribute God's righteousness to yourself...by a false imputation...the same kind of error that saw Jesus as being seen as sinful among the religious people of that time.


People all over the world obey Jesus without knowing Him. Then as now. These will be justified by the mercy of God through Christ who redeems the world to Himself....



THE WORLD to Himself...see? Not the church. And not reckoning their sins means that Jesus died for sinful men in spite of the fact that they are sinful. It doesn't mean that God can't see their sinfulness. It means that sinfulness was not part of the equation...in fact, it was factored in.

Abraham's righteousness was that of a man...not a god. God did not impute His OWN righteousness to him. Only very unlearned and confused people make that assumption. God can attribute good things and bad things to people...as He sees them.

But I have laid all these things out plainly before. To overcome a previous indoctrination, I may have to repeat them 17, 325 more times before you see it. ;)

Really, Episkopos, it's not difficult.....what don't you get about God calling those things WHICH BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY ARE? What's not to get?.....Paul tells us there plain as day, what imputation in the context he is using it, means. You can try and dance the cha-cha around it all you want, but there it is and it won't pass away no matter how much you wish it would.

"He was wounded FROM our transgressions, crushed FROM our iniquities: the chastisement of OUR peace (better that one man dies) was on Him, in His stripes we are healed." Is. 53:5 ............Sure, like someone dies FROM a bullet wound. Except that in this case it is not literal.....it was because our transgressions were laid on Him in an imputed sense....He was reckoned/imputed to be among the transgressors even though He had never transgressed. He didn't die from/for His own sins did He? No, He was utterly innocent and didn't die on his own account, obviously.

And God surely did GIVE His only Son for this cause. Much like where Jesus said His life wasn't taken away from Him but He was the one who laid it down. Need ears to hear. Wasted on you apparently, but just in case it helps anyone else.

 

[Behold]

2 Corinthians 13:5-9 Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith;

James teaches the same........ idea, as living faith, vs "dead faith"

Jesus teaches the same idea as real faith, that is passionate, vs "lukewarm, and i spit you out".

JUDE, teaches it uniquely,... as He says...that the born again, are to "CONTEND, for the real faith"..

So, that is to realize that there is this situation that exists in ourselves where there is the capacity to turn from faith in Christ, to faith in self.
This is to leave the mind that is "Christ's righteousness" and descend into "self righteousness" that Paul defines as "im the Flesh".

This is : LEGALISM.. or "self saving" ... that is SELF Righteousness.

Also, JUDE is teaching that there is a lot of FALSE theology in the world that tries to deny God's Righteousness that is a "GIFT", by teaching that it has to be earned and kept by SELF.. by effort, by doing....

JUDE says that the real believers have to "CONTEND" against this.........we have to fight it, resist it, deny it, reveal it as false, and expose those who are this as Paul teaches... : Galatians 1:8

So,. an example would be : Calvinism, as this is a false faith, and JUDE says the real believers are to "CONTEND" against this : "doctrine of Devils".

 

[Lizbeth]

I think he visits Chabad.org and I am eternally grateful to our Lord Christ Jesus died FOR our sins, in our stead. Epi is majoring on minors here.

In Isaiah 53:5-6, the Hebrew text uses the preposition מִ (mi) to indicate that Jesus was pierced and crushed for our transgressions and iniquities, emphasizing the substitutionary nature of his suffering.

In the New Testament passages (1 Corinthians 15:3 and Romans 5:8), the Greek preposition ὑπὲρ (huper) is used, which denotes "for the sake of," "on behalf of," or "in the place of."

This preposition indicates that Jesus died in our place to bear the penalty of our sins.

These verses clearly affirm the biblical teaching that Jesus' death was not merely a result of our sins but was intentionally for the purpose of atoning for our sins, reconciling us to God, and demonstrating God's love for humanity. This theological concept of substitutionary atonement is foundational in both Old and New Testament teachings about the Messiah's mission and the salvation of mankind.

I love this verse--

Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei'avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach's) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.

Shalom
J.

Amen. Splitting hairs often means one is desperately trying to prop up their false doctrine. Instead of letting the word tell them and instruct what to believe some people are trying to tell the word what it is saying, lol.

Words can have more than one meaning because God is speaking in spirit, three-dimensionally maybe we could say, not in a limited two-dimensional way of the carnal mind.. You know, I even believe scripture is written in a way that sometimes tests us.........it's often in our own hearts how we take what is written, whether we love the truth or love our own theology more.

 

[Johann]

I don't know what's in the Kool-aid you are drinking..but you are proving my point. Jesus died because of our sins...not for our sins.

I don't think there is much thinking going into your process....a lot of citations...no reasoning power to speak of. In your rush to "correct" me you have undermined your own beliefs.

People think Jesus died FOR their sins. To forgive them. So now, in that scheme, there is no more penalty for THEIR sins based on an eternal cosmic forgiveness plan received by a simple accepting as Jesus as one's personal Saviour.

And you are acknowledging that I am speaking rightly while accusing me of being in error. How can you be more confused?

Learn Hebrew before you show your even more ignorance...

Amen. Splitting hairs often means one is desperately trying to prop up their false doctrine. Instead of letting the word tell them and instruct what to believe some people are trying to tell the word what it is saying, lol.

Words can have more than one meaning because God is speaking in spirit, three-dimensionally maybe we could say, not in a limited two-dimensional way of the carnal mind.. You know, I even believe scripture is written in a way that sometimes tests us.........it's often in our own hearts how we take what is written, whether we love the truth or love our own theology more.

Correct you are, the word is a two-edged sword and cut both ways and is a discerner of OUR thoughts and the intentions of OUR hearts and as you rightly said-do we love the truth or do we love the ego eimi. Remember Pontius Pilate? He asked Jesus this question-"What is truth?" and promptly turned away from THE Truth,not waiting for a reply.

Herod's interaction with Jesus as recorded in the Gospels indeed provides a profound moment where truth and power intersect. However, it was actually Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor, who asked Jesus, "What is truth?" rather than Herod. This exchange is significant in understanding the concept of truth in the context of Jesus' trial.

The Interaction with Pilate
The conversation occurs during Jesus' trial before Pilate, as described in the Gospel of John:

John 18:37-38 (ESV):

Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him."

Analysis
Jesus as the Bearer of Truth:

Jesus declares that His purpose is to bear witness to the truth. This aligns with His earlier statements in the Gospel of John where He says, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life" (John 14:6, ESV). This underscores that Jesus embodies and reveals God's truth.
Pilate’s Question:

Pilate's question, "What is truth?" reflects a skeptical or philosophical attitude towards the nature of truth. He does not wait for an answer, indicating either disinterest or a belief that truth is subjective or unattainable.
Contrast with Jesus' Followers:

Jesus states that everyone who is of the truth listens to His voice. This suggests that understanding and accepting the truth involves a relationship with Jesus and a recognition of His divine authority.
Herod’s Interaction with Jesus
While Pilate’s question is notable, Herod Antipas also plays a role in Jesus' trial. According to the Gospel of Luke:

Luke 23:8-9 (ESV):

When Herod saw Jesus, he was very glad, for he had long desired to see him, because he had heard about him, and he was hoping to see some sign done by him. So he questioned him at some length, but he made no answer.

Analysis
Herod’s Curiosity:

Herod’s interest in Jesus seems to be more about curiosity and a desire for entertainment, hoping to see a miracle, rather than a genuine search for truth.
Jesus’ Silence:

Jesus does not respond to Herod’s questions, which could indicate a judgment on Herod's lack of sincere seeking. This silence contrasts with His engagement with Pilate, who, despite his skepticism, engages in a more substantive dialogue.

The interactions of Jesus with both Pilate and Herod highlight different attitudes towards truth and Jesus' role as the revealer of that truth. Pilate’s philosophical questioning and subsequent dismissal of Jesus reflect a common human skepticism or indifference towards divine truth. Herod’s superficial curiosity underscores a failure to engage deeply with the truth Jesus represents.

Reflection
For believers, these accounts emphasize the importance of sincerely seeking truth through a relationship with Jesus, who embodies and reveals God's ultimate truth. It also serves as a reminder to be wary of superficial curiosity or skepticism that prevents a deeper understanding and acceptance of the truth found in Christ.

By the way @Lizbeth one of the members questioned my salvation when I said to you "Agree to disagree re Pentecostalism"
So I will just "like" your posts without saying anything.

God bless
Johann.

 

[Episkopos]

Amen. Splitting hairs often means one is desperately trying to prop up their false doctrine. Instead of letting the word tell them and instruct what to believe some people are trying to tell the word what it is saying, lol.

Words can have more than one meaning because God is speaking in spirit, three-dimensionally maybe we could say, not in a limited two-dimensional way of the carnal mind.. You know, I even believe scripture is written in a way that sometimes tests us.........it's often in our own hearts how we take what is written, whether we love the truth or love our own theology more.

LOL. The irony. I'm exposing false doctrine and you say I'm splitting hairs by distinguishing being saved IN our sins and being saved FROM our sins (sinning). Just a whole spiritual dimension away...that's nothing to you. Of course not.

 

[Johann]

LOL. The irony. I'm exposing false doctrine and you say I'm splitting hairs by distinguishing being saved IN our sins and being saved FROM our sins (sinning). Just a whole spiritual dimension away...that's nothing to you. Of course not.

The irony is on you @Episkopos and as an Eastern Catholic you have to redefine all the major core tenets in Scriptures.
@Lizbeth is sharp, honed, and have stumped you-a real "yorker" or "Chachmate" and majoring on minors is not going to help you.
Think we need to go from B flat to A minor in the Pentatonic scale.

 

[Lizbeth]

Correct you are, the word is a two-edged sword and cut both ways and is a discerner of OUR thoughts and the intentions of OUR hearts and as you rightly said-do we love the truth or do we love the ego eimi. Remember Pontius Pilate? He asked Jesus this question-"What is truth?" and promptly turned away from THE Truth,not waiting for a reply.

Herod's interaction with Jesus as recorded in the Gospels indeed provides a profound moment where truth and power intersect. However, it was actually Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor, who asked Jesus, "What is truth?" rather than Herod. This exchange is significant in understanding the concept of truth in the context of Jesus' trial.

The Interaction with Pilate
The conversation occurs during Jesus' trial before Pilate, as described in the Gospel of John:

John 18:37-38 (ESV):

Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him."

Analysis
Jesus as the Bearer of Truth:

Jesus declares that His purpose is to bear witness to the truth. This aligns with His earlier statements in the Gospel of John where He says, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life" (John 14:6, ESV). This underscores that Jesus embodies and reveals God's truth.
Pilate’s Question:

Pilate's question, "What is truth?" reflects a skeptical or philosophical attitude towards the nature of truth. He does not wait for an answer, indicating either disinterest or a belief that truth is subjective or unattainable.
Contrast with Jesus' Followers:

Jesus states that everyone who is of the truth listens to His voice. This suggests that understanding and accepting the truth involves a relationship with Jesus and a recognition of His divine authority.
Herod’s Interaction with Jesus
While Pilate’s question is notable, Herod Antipas also plays a role in Jesus' trial. According to the Gospel of Luke:

Luke 23:8-9 (ESV):

When Herod saw Jesus, he was very glad, for he had long desired to see him, because he had heard about him, and he was hoping to see some sign done by him. So he questioned him at some length, but he made no answer.

Analysis
Herod’s Curiosity:

Herod’s interest in Jesus seems to be more about curiosity and a desire for entertainment, hoping to see a miracle, rather than a genuine search for truth.
Jesus’ Silence:

Jesus does not respond to Herod’s questions, which could indicate a judgment on Herod's lack of sincere seeking. This silence contrasts with His engagement with Pilate, who, despite his skepticism, engages in a more substantive dialogue.

The interactions of Jesus with both Pilate and Herod highlight different attitudes towards truth and Jesus' role as the revealer of that truth. Pilate’s philosophical questioning and subsequent dismissal of Jesus reflect a common human skepticism or indifference towards divine truth. Herod’s superficial curiosity underscores a failure to engage deeply with the truth Jesus represents.

Reflection
For believers, these accounts emphasize the importance of sincerely seeking truth through a relationship with Jesus, who embodies and reveals God's ultimate truth. It also serves as a reminder to be wary of superficial curiosity or skepticism that prevents a deeper understanding and acceptance of the truth found in Christ.

By the way @Lizbeth one of the members questioned my salvation when I said to you "Agree to disagree re Pentecostalism"
So I will just "like" your posts without saying anything.

God bless
Johann.

Amen and amen to your post brother.

I don't really agree with any "ism" actually, so I'm with you to some extent on that. :) I understand you have been hurt by some overzealous nuttiness and this has led you to be cautious and leery of certain things.....I can understand where you're coming from, and it doesn't at all mean you aren't my brother in the Lord. It shouldn't make anyone question your salvation in my opinion.

Ever heard of "snake handlers" in some places in the southern USA? Jesus said we could handle snakes and not be hurt.....so these folks go around handling venomous snakes on purpose to try and prove the point. Oh my goodness me, guess they never read where it says to not put God to the test! All kinds of things go on in Christendom that the Lord never intended and the devil loves to discredit the genuine things of God this way!

 

[Lizbeth]

LOL. The irony. I'm exposing false doctrine and you say I'm splitting hairs by distinguishing being saved IN our sins and being saved FROM our sins (sinning). Just a whole spiritual dimension away...that's nothing to you. Of course not.

Sidestepping the point again. Still not getting it, huh? Or pretending not to maybe.....well God knows either way.

Yes we have been saved from our sins...that is a different point. So far as the east is from the west has He cast our sins away and remembers them no more. But does that mean He has a bad memory? And does the Lord have a really good throwing arm? (up there in the big leagues, lol) We sure do need to understand the spiritual nature of the language of scripture....ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

And of course we are no longer under the dominion of sin......no longer "obligated" to the flesh as the spiritual language of God puts it.

 

[Episkopos]

The irony is on you @Episkopos and as an Eastern Catholic you have to redefine all the major core tenets in Scriptures.
@Lizbeth is sharp, honed, and have stumped you-a real "yorker" or "Chachmate" and majoring on minors is not going to help you.
Think we need to go from B flat to A minor in the Pentatonic scale.

LOL Does living in Quebec constitute me being an "Eastern" Catholic. Très drole! My calling is actually from God...not men.

 

[Johann]

LOL. The irony. I'm exposing false doctrine and you say I'm splitting hairs by distinguishing being saved IN our sins and being saved FROM our sins (sinning). Just a whole spiritual dimension away...that's nothing to you. Of course not.

Again-the irony is on you @Episkopos and learn to rightly cutting straight the D'varim of YHVH

Greek Analysis
Matthew 1:21 (KJV)

Verse: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Greek: καὶ τέξεται υἱόν, καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν· αὐτὸς γὰρ σώσει τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτῶν.
Key Phrases:
σώσει (sōsei): Future tense of σῴζω (sōzō), meaning "to save" or "to rescue."
ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν (apo tōn hamartiōn): "From their sins," where ἀπὸ (apo) is a preposition meaning "from" or "away from."
Syntax and Morphology:

The preposition ἀπὸ indicates separation or distance, implying that Jesus will save people by removing or delivering them from their sins.
John 1:29 (KJV)

Verse: "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
Greek: Τῇ ἐπαύριον βλέπει ὁ Ἰωάννης τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐρχόμενον πρὸς αὐτόν, καὶ λέγει, Ἴδε ὁ ἀμνὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ ὁ αἴρων τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου.
Key Phrases:
αἴρων (airōn): Present participle of αἴρω (airō), meaning "to take away" or "to remove."
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian): Accusative singular of ἁμαρτία (hamartia), meaning "sin."
Syntax and Morphology:
The participle αἴρων emphasizes the continuous action of taking away or removing sin, not leaving people in their sins but actively removing them.

Transliteration: airōn
Morphology: V-PPA-NMS
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G142 (αἴρω)
Meaning: To raise, lift up, take away, remove.

Hebrew Analysis
Psalm 51:2 (KJV)

Verse: "Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin."
Hebrew: הֶרֶב כַּבְּסֵנִי מֵעֲוֹנִי וּמֵחַטָּאתִי טַהֲרֵנִי.

Key Phrases:
כַּבְּסֵנִי (kabbēsēnī): Piel imperative of כָּבַס (kābas), meaning "to wash."
מֵעֲוֹנִי (me'avonī): "From my iniquity," where מִן (min) is a preposition meaning "from."
טַהֲרֵנִי (ṭaharēnī): Piel imperative of טָהֵר (ṭāhēr), meaning "to cleanse."
Syntax and Morphology:
The preposition מִן (min) indicates separation, reinforcing the idea of being washed and cleansed from, not in, one's sins.
Isaiah 53:5 (KJV)

Verse: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
Hebrew: וְהוּא מְחֹלָל מִפְּשָׁעֵינוּ מְדֻכָּא מֵעֲוֹנוֹתֵינוּ מוּסַר שְׁלוֹמֵנוּ עָלָיו וּבַחֲבֻרָתוֹ נִרְפָּא־לָנוּ.
Key Phrases:
מִפְּשָׁעֵינוּ (mippeshā'ēnū): "For our transgressions," where מִן (min) indicates causality or reason.
מֵעֲוֹנוֹתֵינוּ (me'avonōtēnū): "For our iniquities," with מִן (min) indicating causality.
Syntax and Morphology:

The preposition מִן (min) in these contexts can mean "because of" or "for," indicating that the suffering servant bore these punishments because of our transgressions and iniquities, not merely while we remain in them. @Episkopos majoring on minors--
Distinguishing "IN" and "FROM" Sins

Saved IN Our Sins: This concept is not supported by the analyzed texts. Being saved "in" our sins would imply a state where salvation occurs without a transformation or removal from the state of sinfulness, which contradicts the scriptural emphasis on cleansing, redemption, and transformation.

Saved FROM Our Sins: This is the consistent biblical teaching. The Greek and Hebrew prepositions (ἀπὸ and מִן respectively) emphasize separation and deliverance. Jesus' mission is to save people by removing their sins, implying a complete transformation and sanctification process.

Conclusion
The Bible clearly teaches that salvation involves being saved from our sins, not merely in our sins. This is evident through the consistent use of prepositions and verbs in both the Greek New Testament and the Hebrew Old Testament that emphasize deliverance and removal of sin. The concept of being saved "from" sins aligns with the biblical themes of redemption, purification, and transformation.

Whether I am making your case or not-the one who needs to be exposed is you brother-you are from a whole different planet and dimension.

 

[Johann]

LOL Does living in Quebec constitute me being an "Eastern" Catholic. Très drole! My calling is actually from God...not men.

Not so funny-Catholic definitely.
Ne fais pas semblant que ce n'est pas le cas.

The main religion in Quebec is Christianity, with Roman Catholicism being the predominant denomination. Historically, Quebec has been a strongly Catholic region due to its French colonial roots, and the Roman Catholic Church has played a significant role in the province's cultural and social development. Despite a decline in regular church attendance in recent decades, Catholicism remains a significant aspect of Quebec's cultural identity. Other Christian denominations and various religions are also present due to immigration and increasing religious diversity.

Vous jouez avec le mauvais homme !

 

[Johann]

Amen and amen to your post brother.

I don't really agree with any "ism" actually, so I'm with you to some extent on that. :) I understand you have been hurt by some overzealous nuttiness and this has led you to be cautious and leery of certain things.....I can understand where you're coming from, and it doesn't at all mean you aren't my brother in the Lord. It shouldn't make anyone question your salvation in my opinion.

Ever heard of "snake handlers" in some places in the southern USA? Jesus said we could handle snakes and not be hurt.....so these folks go around handling venomous snakes on purpose to try and prove the point. Oh my goodness me, guess they never read where it says to not put God to the test! All kinds of things go on in Christendom that the Lord never intended and the devil loves to discredit the genuine things of God this way!

‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?

There is a certain subject that the Jews had trouble with when Jesus the Christ was on earth in the flesh!! They had trouble with Him being One with the Father!! So I guess it would not be surprising that there are those today who have trouble with the idea of the Oneness of God!! Some want to...

www.christianityboard.com

‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?

There is a certain subject that the Jews had trouble with when Jesus the Christ was on earth in the flesh!! They had trouble with Him being One with the Father!! So I guess it would not be surprising that there are those today who have trouble with the idea of the Oneness of God!! Some want to...

www.christianityboard.com

Read this-I am too tired to answer this brother and since you have the discernment to discern error from truth maybe you can gently get him "off my back"

 

[Episkopos]

Not so funny-Catholic definitely.
Ne fais pas semblant que ce n'est pas le cas.

The main religion in Quebec is Christianity, with Roman Catholicism being the predominant denomination. Historically, Quebec has been a strongly Catholic region due to its French colonial roots, and the Roman Catholic Church has played a significant role in the province's cultural and social development. Despite a decline in regular church attendance in recent decades, Catholicism remains a significant aspect of Quebec's cultural identity. Other Christian denominations and various religions are also present due to immigration and increasing religious diversity.

Vous jouez avec le mauvais homme !

I'm playing with a bad man? LOL ;)

En tout cas..Looking online for things is not the same as seeking God. Look upward for answers.

 

[Johann]

I'm playing with a bad man? LOL ;)

En tout cas..Looking online for things is not the same as seeking God. Look upward for answers.

Here's the problem, I don't need to look up things online-are you rusty in your French?

You are Catholic, so which sacraments do you observe? Do you believe Mary was born sinless?

 

[Episkopos]

Here's the problem, I don't need to look up things online-are you rusty in your French?

You are Catholic, so which sacraments do you observe? Do you believe Mary was born sinless?

All false. Arrête donc de me niaiser. Your accusatory attitude reveals your true nature.

 

[Johann]

All false. Arrête donc de me niaiser. Your accusatory attitude reveals your true nature.

I don't think so-I think I have struck a nerve-what about the Eucharist?