Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

[face2face]

Acts 2, telling us what happened when Christ died

23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having [g]loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:

Loosed the pains of Death.

Mortality had previously held him under the "dominion of death" (Rom. 6:9).

6:9 We know that since Christ has been raised from the dead, he is never going to die again; death no longer has mastery (dominion) over him. Rom 6:9.

His resurrection to immortality had removed that bondage.

Do you understand this @Johann

Johann, notice how people rarely use the Scripture to prove itself?

The pains of death is the dominion which holds all people in the grave - yet the grave could not hold him because he was sinnless. (Go back and read Hebrews 2:14-17 and you will see!)

You cannot seperate Christ from his body - impossible...its the whole reason he was raised up in Sins Flesh so that God could have victory over it.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Acts 2 :: King James Version (KJV)

Acts 2 - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

www.blueletterbible.org

34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Lord said to my Lord, Lord here is the same greek work Kyrios.


Christ the Lord was in heaven with God in the beginning and had glory with the Father
God sent Christ from heaven
God raised up Christ as it was impossible for death to hold Him as HE is the Lord of life.
God says to His risen Christ sit at my right hand
God then gives all authority and power in heaven and earth to Christ

John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Can't be any clearer truth here, that God sent Christ who then came down from heaven, was killed, resurrected and then went back into heaven.

I think even J. would agree this is crude use of the Word.
F2F

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus the Son preexisted with God the Father before anything was created
God thru Christ created all things.

John 17
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together [b]with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.

To know who the Word is who was with God in the beginning before all things were created, read onwards, you find out in v17-18 His Name

John’s Witness: The True Light​

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That[b] was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Word Becomes Flesh​

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me [f]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

16 [g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten [h]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

 

[Taken]

If so, what did he make alive in Christ if you are right?

Get a mirror…examine your HEAD…
Two holes…ears
Two holes…eyes
Two hole….nostrils
One hole….mouth
Open mouth…notice…One tongue
examine your body….covered in flesh.

Now … TRY to COMMUNICATE…with ANYONE….without using ANY of those things!

A soul belongs to God, a souls LIFE is Gods BREATH
A soul “IN” a body ALLOWS …
The flesh to feel touch
The eyes to see
The ears to hear
The nose to smell
The mouth to utter sounds
The tongue to taste

UH….it allow that BODY to communicate.
DUH…communication is a pretty HANDY thing to Possess….IF one desires to establish a RELATIONSHIP “with” another!…you know….like God for example !….like um…another person for example !…..

A soul IN the body….duh…communication possible…

A soul DEPARTED OUT of a DEAD BODY…duh…the body can no long communicate…

A DEPARTED Living soul…continues LIVING….feeling touch, seeing, hearing, speaking, tasting, etc…..

And IF that departed Living soul …. Is IN HELL….Nothing IN Hell is pleasant to see, hear, smell, touch, etc.

And IF that departed Living soul…IS IN HEAVEN…..Everything IN Heaven is pleasant to see, hear, smell, touch, etc.

AND IF that living soul IS returned to its BODY, the body resumes Living….and seeing, hearing, smelling, touching etc. those things which are ON the EARTH…(a human body’s habitat.)

If every person is born from above including Christ - what was born?

Your “IF” is not a caveat that exists.
EVERY PERSON is NOT born from above.

First…”A” person IS a body, created by God, of the dust of it’s habitat…EARTH…”IF” it is a human, it is a body of a manKIND of being.
AND for that HUMAN Kind of being to “BE” a person…it MUST have a Living soul…”IN” it.

IOW…dead human body’s are not “persons”.
Dead body’s of humans are cadavers, the deceased, the dead, the departed, Mr. so-n-so….never called “a person”.

Every living body with a living soul….
IS a body…with its own life…called BLOOD
IF it is a Person…
It is a body….alive with its own Life (blood)
AND
A soul…alive with God Life (breath)

Body’s of Humans are created (by the hand of God) out of the dust of the EARTH (a body’s habitat)
IT IS the habitat that sustains the LIFE of the body…
The Earth is full of Minerals, water..which is the same things the body is madeup of and requires to continue bodily living…

The soul requires God Breath to continue Living. IF and WHEN, God REMOVES His Breath of Life FROM “ANY” soul…that soul will CEASE living.

To date…from the beginning of manKIND…God HAS NOT (yet) removed His breath of LIFE from “ANY” humans soul!

God HAS…(BY HIS POWER) removed living souls FROM PLENTY (billions) of Dead human body’s

The SPIRIT of man IS NOT “the soul in his body”…
The SPIRIT of a naturally born human man…IS the natural TRUTH IN a mans Heart (without consideration of what truths, lies, deceit, a man’s MIND, thinks or believes).

You have a natural truth IN your Heart…
You KNOW your TRUE identity, your TRUE name, titles, nick-names, that only particular people know and call you….
YET on this forum…(for example) YOU know what “title/name”….you have devised, that is ONLY for the purpose of this forum…

IF YOU were to call ON the Lord….and say…Lord…it’s me…”face2face”….is that the Identity…the Name recorded in Gods Book of Life or the Lambs BOOK of Life? Uh, no.

Since “your natural spirit IS IN YOUR HeArt”…Would the Lord God, consider, have an expectation to hear from ANYONE “spirit” not named in the Lord Gods BOOKS?

A human’s natural spirit IN HIS HEART…and has been OFFERED…A WAY…to become “MADE”…born again….
FROM a natural spirit, a natural truth, via a MANS SEED….
TO….have his natural spirit become MADE…
Born AGAIN…with Gods SEED…

The OFFERING…has a caveat…the caveat is always “according to God Order and Way”…His gift, His terms for any man desiring Gods SEED…to TAKE Gods gift offering…

Any man so inclined to ACCEPT Gods offering of a born again Spirit from Gods Seed….DOES SO…according to Gods Order and Way….and ONCE Taken and Received…IT IS the receipt of a Gift that can NEVER be revoked. (Ie osas).

By the SEED of God (Christ)…
And
The POWER of God (Christ)…enters “INTO” that man….and by the Power of God IS that mans spirit KEPT alive Forever…(ie osas)

Yes …that is OFFERED to ALL men…
No ….ALL men do not CHOOSE to. Accept and Take the Lord Gods GIFT “OFFERING”.

thus…”ALL” are not born from the Seed of God, the Spirit of God, who IS from above.

 

[face2face]

@Scott Downey @Johann

"the pain of death"

Gr. odinas is translated "sorrows" in Mat. 24:8; Mk. 13:8, where the RV has "travail" and Roth, has "birthpangs." This expression comes from Psa 18:5 which prophetically speaks of "the sorrows [Heb. chebel: a twisted rope, speaking of excruciating and entwining pain] of death."

The righteousness of God demanded his resurrection (Rom 3:25)

"that he should be holden of it" — Roth, has "held fast." Since Jesus Christ was the "Prince of Life" (Acts 3:15), and had life in himself (Jn. 1:4; 5:26), being empowered to "take it again" (Jn. 10:18), having fulfilled the divine purpose in his ministry and sacrifice, the grave was unable to hold him fast. After the same principle, his power will ultimately release his followers from the domination of the "memorial graves" in which they presently lie (Jn. 5:28-29). Then it will be said: "O death, where is thy sting? Ο grave, where is thy victory" (1 Cor. 15:55).

The whole emphasis of Acts 2:24 is the fact that Christ while dead is held by it until he was raised.

He ceased to exist and if God had left him he would have corrupted and decayed back to dust being the second Adam.

However God raised Him to declare His Righteousness

Enjoy...and I hope you look up all the references

F2F

 

[Johann]

God cannot dwell in sin's flesh!

I never implied it-
Philippians 2:6-8 (NKJV)
“Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”

Key Greek Terms:
ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ (en morphē Theou) – "in the form of God."

μορφῇ (morphē) means "form" or "essence," suggesting that Jesus shared the divine essence of God.
μορφὴν δούλου λαβών (morphēn doulou labōn) – "taking the form of a servant."

"Being (huparchōn). Rather, “existing,” present active participle of huparchō. In the form of God (en morphēi theou). Morphē means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ."
RWP.

The verb λαβών (labōn) is an aorist participle indicating a past completed action—He took on a new form (that of a servant).
ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος (en homoiōmati anthrōpōn genomenos) – "coming in the likeness of men."

ὁμοιώματι (homoiōmati) means "likeness" or "resemblance," implying that Christ was like other men but distinct in His divine nature.
γενόμενος (genomenos) is the aorist participle of the verb γίνομαι (ginomai), meaning "to become" or "to come into existence," indicating that Jesus entered human existence.
σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος (schēmati heuretheis hōs anthrōpos) – "being found in appearance as a man."

σχήματι (schēmati) refers to His external form or appearance as a man.
2. Romans 8:3 (NKJV)
“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh.”

Key Greek Terms:
ἐν ὁμοιώματι σαρκὸς ἁμαρτίας (en homoiōmati sarkos hamartias) – "in the likeness of sinful flesh."
ὁμοιώματι (homoiōmati) here again means "likeness," implying that Christ took on human flesh similar to sinful flesh, but without sin.
σάρξ (sarx) refers to "flesh," often implying human nature in its frailty and weakness.
The phrase emphasizes that Jesus shared fully in human flesh, though He was sinless.
3. Hebrews 2:14-17 (NKJV)
“Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil… Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God.”

Key Greek Terms:
κοινωνέω (koinōneō) – "shared in the same."
This verb emphasizes the commonality of Christ’s human experience with humanity.
ὁμοιωθῆναι τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς αὐτοῦ (homoiōthēnai tois adelphois autou) – "made like His brethren."
ὁμοιωθῆναι (homoiōthēnai) is the aorist passive infinitive of ὁμοιόω (homoiō), meaning "to become like" or "to resemble."
This emphasizes the complete identification of Jesus with human beings in all things, except sin.
4. John 1:14 (NKJV)
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Key Greek Terms:
καὶ ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο (kai ho Logos sarx egeneto) – "And the Word became flesh."
σὰρξ (sarx) – "flesh," emphasizes the full humanity of Christ, signifying His real physical existence.
ἐγένετο (egeneto) – "became," is the aorist form of γίνομαι (ginomai), denoting the incarnation as a specific event where the eternal Word took on human nature.
5. 1 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory.”

Key Greek Terms:
ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί (ephanerōthē en sarki) – "manifested in the flesh."
ἐφανερώθη (ephanerōthē) is the aorist passive indicative of φανερόω (phaneroō), meaning "to reveal" or "make manifest."
σαρκί (sarki) – "flesh," emphasizing that God’s revelation in Christ took place in a fully human form.
Summary
The Greek terms used in these passages, particularly ὁμοίωμα (likeness) and σάρξ (flesh), emphasize that while Christ came in full human form, He retained His divine nature. The use of the aorist tense in verbs like ἐγένετο (became) and μορφὴν λαβών (taking the form) highlights the historical, completed nature of His incarnation. Jesus did not merely "appear" human; He truly assumed human flesh while remaining fully divine, making Him the perfect mediator between God and humanity.

What ever you think has the Power of Death is what God removed in His Son.

And HERE you need to explain, since I don't want to make assumptions, do you think Jesus was a sinner? Or 'BECAME" sin in a literal sense?

J.

 

[Johann]

Acts 2 :: King James Version (KJV)

Acts 2 - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

www.blueletterbible.org

34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Lord said to my Lord, Lord here is the same greek work Kyrios.


Christ the Lord was in heaven with God in the beginning and had glory with the Father
God sent Christ from heaven
God raised up Christ as it was impossible for death to hold Him as HE is the Lord of life.
God says to His risen Christ sit at my right hand
God then gives all authority and power in heaven and earth to Christ

John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 6:33
For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Can't be any clearer truth here, that God sent Christ who then came down from heaven, was killed, resurrected and then went back into heaven.

Now you have to make the brother see the light as to "the likeness" and that Jesus was NOT a created being-good job posting the Scriptures!

J.

 

[face2face]

And HERE you need to explain, since I don't want to make assumptions, do you think Jesus was a sinner? Or 'BECAME" sin in a literal sense?

J.

Paul calls it a devil - means false accuser.

What falsely accusers us against God and has the power of death - because it was through Jesus's death this POWER was removed.

If you rightly divide the Word and draw to the correct understanding of this power you will find the true Christ.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Now you have to make the brother see the light as to "the likeness" and that Jesus was NOT a created being-good job posting the Scriptures!

J.

The light has been shinning brightly at you all night, and you still appear to be in darkness.

You have death holding Christ in the grave (Scott proved this)
You have God bringing Christ out of the grave to immortality
You have death having dominion over Christ (and God if you believe he is God)
You have a victory through the Death of Christ which you both are yet to understand.

Overall we are making progress - slow as it seems

F2F

 

[Johann]

Jesus the Son preexisted with God the Father before anything was created
God thru Christ created all things.

John 17
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together [b]with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.

To know who the Word is who was with God in the beginning before all things were created, read onwards, you find out in v17-18 His Name

John’s Witness: The True Light​

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That[b] was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Word Becomes Flesh​

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me [f]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

16 [g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten [h]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Good job @Scott Downey!

J.

 

[Johann]

Paul calls it a devil - means false accuser.

What falsely accusers us against God and has the power of death - because it was through Jesus's death this POWER was removed.

If you rightly divide the Word and draw to the correct understanding of this power you will find the true Christ.

F2F

Just answer the question F2F-do you believe Christ became sin in a literal sense?

J.

 

[face2face]

It's become clear to me you both don't understand that death is the cessation of life.

Here are some references for you to go through on the state of the dead.

The dead know not anything. Ecc. 9:5, 6.
Nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecc. 9:10.
All (man and beast) go unto one place, all are of the dust. Ecc. 3:19, 20; Job 34:15.
For I know that thou wilt bring me to death and to the house appointed to all living. Job 30:23.
If a man die shall he live again? … Till my change come. Job 14:14
Why died I not from the womb … for now should I have lain still … I should have slept. Job 3:11, 13.
Then had I been at rest with kings. Job 3:13.
Go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest. Dan. 12:13.
There the wicked cease from troubling, and the weary are at rest. Job 3:17.
I should have been as though I had not been. Job 10:18, 19; Obad. 16.
The grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee. Isa. 38:18, 19.
For in death there is no remembrance of thee. Psa. 6:5.
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead … Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? Psa. 88:10, 12.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psa. 146:3, 4.
And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace (who served other gods). Gen. 15:15.
I am going the way of all the earth, said Joshua—and David also declared, “I go the way of all the earth.” Josh. 23:14; I Kgs. 2:2.
O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence and be no more. Psa. 39:13.
David fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers. Acts. 13:36; 2:29.

If you need more let me know

F2F

 

[face2face]

Just answer the question F2F-do you believe Christ became sin in a literal sense?

J.

No, but how was sin represented in him?

 

[Johann]

It's become clear to me you both don't understand that death is the cessation of life.

Here are some references for you to go through on the state of the dead.

The dead know not anything. Ecc. 9:5, 6.
Nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecc. 9:10.
All (man and beast) go unto one place, all are of the dust. Ecc. 3:19, 20; Job 34:15.
For I know that thou wilt bring me to death and to the house appointed to all living. Job 30:23.
If a man die shall he live again? … Till my change come. Job 14:14
Why died I not from the womb … for now should I have lain still … I should have slept. Job 3:11, 13.
Then had I been at rest with kings. Job 3:13.
Go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest. Dan. 12:13.
There the wicked cease from troubling, and the weary are at rest. Job 3:17.
I should have been as though I had not been. Job 10:18, 19; Obad. 16.
The grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee. Isa. 38:18, 19.
For in death there is no remembrance of thee. Psa. 6:5.
Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead … Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? Psa. 88:10, 12.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psa. 146:3, 4.
And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace (who served other gods). Gen. 15:15.
I am going the way of all the earth, said Joshua—and David also declared, “I go the way of all the earth.” Josh. 23:14; I Kgs. 2:2.
O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence and be no more. Psa. 39:13.
David fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers. Acts. 13:36; 2:29.

If you need more let me know

F2F

Now this is interesting-all OT quotes and none of the Pauline epistles.

J.

 

[Johann]

No, but how was sin represented in him?

נָשָׂא (nasa) – This is the Hebrew verb that means "to bear" or "to carry." It is often used to describe the bearing of iniquity or sin. In the context of sin-bearing, it implies taking on the guilt or responsibility for someone else's wrongdoing.

עָוֹן (avon) – This is a key Hebrew word for "sin" or "iniquity." It refers to the moral guilt or punishment associated with sin.

פֶּשַׁע (pesha) – This is another Hebrew term for "transgression" or "rebellion." It is often used to indicate violations of God's covenant or laws.

Prophecy of the Sin-Bearer in Isaiah 53
The clearest Old Testament prophecy about Christ bearing our sins is found in Isaiah 53, often referred to as the "Suffering Servant" passage. This prophecy foreshadows the Messiah as the one who would bear the sins of humanity.

Isaiah 53:4
Hebrew:
אָכֵן חֳלָיֵנוּ הוּא נָשָׂא, וּמַכְאֹבֵינוּ סְבָלָם
Transliteration: Achen cholaynu hu nasa, u-makh'ovaynu sevalam
Translation: "Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows."

The word נָשָׂא (nasa) means "to bear" or "to carry." Here, it indicates that the Servant (Christ) would carry the burden of humanity's sin, suffering in our place.

Isaiah 53:5
Hebrew:
וְהוּא מְחֹלָל מִפְּשָׁעֵינוּ, מְדֻכָּא מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵינוּ
Transliteration: Ve-hu mecholal mi-pesha'einu, meduka me-avonoteinu
Translation: "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities."

פֶּשַׁע (pesha) refers to "transgressions" and עָוֹן (avon) refers to "iniquities." These are terms that describe the moral failings of humanity that the Servant would take upon Himself.

Isaiah 53:6
Hebrew:
וַיהוָה הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ
Transliteration: Va'Adonai hifgia bo et avon kullanu
Translation: "And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

The phrase עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ (avon kullanu) means "the iniquity of us all," and הִפְגִּיעַ (hifgia) means "laid on" or "caused to fall upon." This indicates that the weight of all human sin was placed upon the Messiah.

Isaiah 53:11
Hebrew:
עֲוֹנֹתָם הוּא יִסְבֹּל
Transliteration: Avonotam hu yisbol
Translation: "He will bear their iniquities."

Here, the word יִסְבֹּל (yisbol) is from the root סָבַל (saval), which means "to bear" or "to carry." The verse indicates that the Messiah would bear the sins (iniquities) of others.

Isaiah 53:12
Hebrew:
וְהוּא חֵטְא-רַבִּים נָשָׂא
Transliteration: Ve-hu chet-rabbim nasa
Translation: "And He bore the sin of many."

Again, the word נָשָׂא (nasa) is used, signifying that the Servant would bear the sin (חֵטְא chet) of many.

How This Applies to Jesus
The New Testament writers often referred to this passage from Isaiah as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2:24 (NKJV): "Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness-by whose stripes you were healed."
Peter echoes Isaiah 53, indicating that Jesus, like the Suffering Servant, bore our sins.

Matthew 8:17 (NKJV): “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: ‘He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.’”
This verse directly links Jesus’ healing ministry to the prophecy of Isaiah 53, showing that Jesus fulfilled the role of the sin-bearer.

Hence my question.

J.

 

[face2face]

Now this is interesting-all OT quotes and none of the Pauline epistles.

J.

They can come...best you familiarise yourself with them first.J.

 

[face2face]

נָשָׂא (nasa) – This is the Hebrew verb that means "to bear" or "to carry." It is often used to describe the bearing of iniquity or sin. In the context of sin-bearing, it implies taking on the guilt or responsibility for someone else's wrongdoing.

עָוֹן (avon) – This is a key Hebrew word for "sin" or "iniquity." It refers to the moral guilt or punishment associated with sin.

פֶּשַׁע (pesha) – This is another Hebrew term for "transgression" or "rebellion." It is often used to indicate violations of God's covenant or laws.

Prophecy of the Sin-Bearer in Isaiah 53
The clearest Old Testament prophecy about Christ bearing our sins is found in Isaiah 53, often referred to as the "Suffering Servant" passage. This prophecy foreshadows the Messiah as the one who would bear the sins of humanity.

Isaiah 53:4
Hebrew:
אָכֵן חֳלָיֵנוּ הוּא נָשָׂא, וּמַכְאֹבֵינוּ סְבָלָם
Transliteration: Achen cholaynu hu nasa, u-makh'ovaynu sevalam
Translation: "Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows."

The word נָשָׂא (nasa) means "to bear" or "to carry." Here, it indicates that the Servant (Christ) would carry the burden of humanity's sin, suffering in our place.

Isaiah 53:5
Hebrew:
וְהוּא מְחֹלָל מִפְּשָׁעֵינוּ, מְדֻכָּא מֵעֲוֹנֹתֵינוּ
Transliteration: Ve-hu mecholal mi-pesha'einu, meduka me-avonoteinu
Translation: "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities."

פֶּשַׁע (pesha) refers to "transgressions" and עָוֹן (avon) refers to "iniquities." These are terms that describe the moral failings of humanity that the Servant would take upon Himself.

Isaiah 53:6
Hebrew:
וַיהוָה הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ
Transliteration: Va'Adonai hifgia bo et avon kullanu
Translation: "And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

The phrase עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ (avon kullanu) means "the iniquity of us all," and הִפְגִּיעַ (hifgia) means "laid on" or "caused to fall upon." This indicates that the weight of all human sin was placed upon the Messiah.

Isaiah 53:11
Hebrew:
עֲוֹנֹתָם הוּא יִסְבֹּל
Transliteration: Avonotam hu yisbol
Translation: "He will bear their iniquities."

Here, the word יִסְבֹּל (yisbol) is from the root סָבַל (saval), which means "to bear" or "to carry." The verse indicates that the Messiah would bear the sins (iniquities) of others.

Isaiah 53:12
Hebrew:
וְהוּא חֵטְא-רַבִּים נָשָׂא
Transliteration: Ve-hu chet-rabbim nasa
Translation: "And He bore the sin of many."

Again, the word נָשָׂא (nasa) is used, signifying that the Servant would bear the sin (חֵטְא chet) of many.

How This Applies to Jesus
The New Testament writers often referred to this passage from Isaiah as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2:24 (NKJV): "Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness-by whose stripes you were healed."
Peter echoes Isaiah 53, indicating that Jesus, like the Suffering Servant, bore our sins.

Matthew 8:17 (NKJV): “That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: ‘He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.’”
This verse directly links Jesus’ healing ministry to the prophecy of Isaiah 53, showing that Jesus fulfilled the role of the sin-bearer.

Hence my question.

J.

What qualified Christ to be a sin bearer?

How did Christ bare your sins in his body?

Once again, how was sin represented in him?

F2F

 

[Taken]

even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive (quickened) together with Christ—

“WE” is subjective…
I know “some” people throw a hissy fit…blurting out “cherrypicking”, with the INTENT to make “cherrypicking” a derogatory connotation.

FACT IS….what an Apostle, a Cleric, teacher is Speaking, Preaching to 3 or 4 or a whole Crowd….
The INDIVIDUALS LISTENING Can ONLY rightfully APPLY TO THEMSELVES, that which actually applies…

EVERYONE is naturally born DEAD IN SIN…
BUT NOT ALL are MADE ALIVE into ever lasting Life.

by grace you are saved!—2:6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus Eph 2:5–6.

Salvation is a Gift Offered to ALL, but not a Gift ALL choose to Take.
Salvation is Gift Offered to ALL, BecAUSE of Gods GRACE…

Gods GRACE…is simply a mans NOTICE…God is NO respecter of Persons…Evenly…the most reverend Person…and the most underhanded wicked Person…ARE because of Gods Grace….OFFERED the SAME OFFERING OF Salvation….

REGARDLESS, if MEN do not like that, think it is not right, believe it…or stand on the roof tops claiming another man SHOULD or SHALL be condemned to eternal separation from God! Too bad…God shall ACCEPT every person who Accepts Gods Offering…without “consulting” any human man “IF” that is okay with ‘them’.

from being dead in transgressions we can be made alive together with Christ.

You highlight “together”.
I highlight “can be made alive”…

WHO “can be made alive”…IS the focus…
The OFFERING applies to ALL.
ALL will NOT accept and take his Offering.
WITH the Lord God and ALL who accept and take His Offering…SHALL all, with the Lord God, BE TOGETHER…

So…no one wondered, asked, or challenged that point….

Can you see how you and Christ share in this quickening of our lives from the dead? What happened to him will happen to those who believe.

Why are you ATTEMPTING to lecture me in such a FASHION…”AS IF”…. That was a topic of discussion…that I denied or challenged…??

Jesus was numbered with the transgressors, as you may know, so it makes sense we are made alive together!

We is subjective…
Belief is subjective…

Christ raises UP “THEY” IN Christ…called the Rapture.

God raises UP “THEY” who believed IN God AND IN His Word (long before, Gods Word’s “name” was revealed.)….called the First Resurrection.

Once Gods Word’s Name was revealed…(JESUS)…God raises up those IN JESUS…
Called the First resurrection.

As well….those who any individual or combination thereof…rejected God, rejected Gods word, rejected Jesus, rejected Christ…made no choice, accepted the beasts mark…they also shall be raise up in hell….their living soul returned to their natural body…called the Second/Last resurrection…

If you beleive an immortal soul returning to a body is quickening, I think you have a few things to consider.

The return of a living soul to a dead body…is making the body to RESUME living….

I can not UNDERSTAND FOR YOU…what RESUME MEANS….but I said no such thing are you are implying that was HOW a man Is quickened !!!

Your communication skills are sorely lacking.

So it makes sense Jesus was completely dead and his life - mind and body was given life.

F2F

Makes “sense” ?

Nothing Spiritual “makes sense” to a natural man….it is NOT supposed to.

Spiritual things….have NOTHING to do with “a mans Senses”.

 

[Taken]

No, He was made alive in the spirit and then went to paradise in hell to preach to the people imprisoned down there in hell-sheol.
Clearly this is about dead people who were put to death in the flesh but are still conscious in hell. He is preaching there before God resurrected Christ, which means to but a spirit back into a living body.

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Concept teaching correct…
Preached to “people”? No.
Preached to saved souls? Yes.
(Their body’s were dead and buried. Dead bodys are not in hell. Dead body’s hear, know nothing.)

God bless you.
Glory to God,

Taken

 

[Johann]

What qualified Christ to be a sin bearer?

How did Christ bare your sins in his body?

Once again, how was sin represented in him?

F2F

Jesus is our faithful High Priest F2F.

Isaiah 53:4-5 (NKJV)

"Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."
Hebrew:
נָשָׂא (nasaʾ) – "borne" (v. 4)
מְחֹלָל (meḥōlāl) – "wounded" (v. 5)
דַכָּא (dakkāʾ) – "bruised/crushed" (v. 5)
1 Peter 2:24 (NKJV)

"Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed."
Greek:
ἀνήνεγκεν (anēnenken) – "bore"
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias) – "sins"
σῶμα (sōma) – "body"
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NKJV)

"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Greek:
ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian) – "sin"
ἐποίησεν (epoiēsen) – "made"
Hebrews 9:28 (NKJV)

"So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."
Greek:
ἀνενεγκεῖν (anenegkein) – "to bear"
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias) – "sins"
Galatians 3:13 (NKJV)

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree')."
Greek:
ἐξαγόρασεν (exagorasen) – "redeemed"
κατάρα (katara) – "curse"
Romans 8:3 (NKJV)

"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh."
Greek:
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias) – "sin"
ἐν τῇ σαρκί (en tē sarki) – "in the flesh"
1 John 3:5 (NKJV)

"And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin."
Greek:
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias) – "sins"
ἦν (ēn) – "was" (implying the nature of sinlessness)
Matthew 8:17 (NKJV)

"That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 'He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.'"
Greek:
ἔλαβεν (elaben) – "took"
ἔφερεν (epheren) – "bore"
Hebrews 10:12 (NKJV)

"But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God."
Greek:
προσενέγκας (prosenenkas) – "offered"
ἁμαρτίας (hamartias) – "sins"
Isaiah 53:6 (NKJV)

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
Hebrew:
הִפְגִּיעַ (hipgiyaʿ) – "laid on"
עָוֹן (ʿavon) – "iniquity"

Leviticus 16:20-22 (NKJV)
"And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness."

In this passage, the scapegoat (Azazel) takes on the sins and iniquities of the people, which are symbolically transferred to it by the high priest laying hands on the goat. This corresponds to the way the "iniquity of us all" is laid upon Christ in Isaiah 53:6. The goat, bearing the sins of the people, is sent away, symbolizing the removal of their transgressions, just as Christ bears the sins of humanity.

J.