Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation

[Ritajanice]

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[amigo de christo]

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

let not any boast in themselves . BOAST IN GOD . Even what we know from HIM is a gift .
IT came not by the flesh but BY THE SPIRIT . YE can DO NOTHING WITHOUT ME . and boy is that THE TRUTH .
We all once walked in darkness , knowing and loving evil and were once the children of wrath .
as paul even said , BUT PRAISE BE TO GOD who DELIVERED US out of darkness and into the KINGDOM of HIS SON .
SO let all that has breath both praise and thank the glorious LORD .
And they all marveled and said , BUT LORD who then can be saved .
WITH MAN , i repeat , WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE . lets look again at that . WITH MAN this is IMPOSSIBLE .
BUT NOT WITH GOD , WITH GOD all things are possible . TIME to preach HOW to be saved
again to this lost generation of intefaith and common ground . cause they surely cannot save themselves
and this love ideal they follow WONT SAVE THEM EITHER . JESUS THE CHRIST preaching time .
TO HE ALONE shall i point and shall not offer up one ounce of false hope to this people .
JESUS CHRIST , let him be magniified and glorified in us . Now to the trenches for the hour is very late
and in a day and an hour known to none , THE DOOR SHALL CLOSE and all outside shall wail . and wail they shall .
THE MASTER OF THE HOUSE is this JESUS THE CHRIST i often speak of
HE BE THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP
and BY HE ALONE do the sheep enter . Muhammed cant get them there , buddism and all the good works cannot
get them there . BUT JESUS CAN . SO ITS TIME TO PREACH HIS NAME .

 

[Marvelloustime]

There is a great evil that has come to decieve and to decieve has it come .
Examine well what people say , for many can say faith , trust , beleif , hope etc
BUT is that faith really in THEIR OWN ablilites , their own faith OR
But its that trust really in themselves OR
I have come and come by grace to the all out full persuasion of mind
of one thing .
WHO then can be saved . With man it is impossible , BUT NOT WITH GOD .
AND GOD already determined exactly HOW TO save .
WHO DID HE SEND
WHO did HE TESTIFY OF
WHO accomplished and fullilled ALL that was required for us .
JESUS the CHRIST . SO my mind is made up , I SHALL TRUST IN HE ALONE for my salvation .
My faith shall not be in me , BUT IN HIM and IN HE ALONE .
My trust shall not be in me , BUT IN HIM and IN HE ALONE .
And remember that any who cometh and brings any other interfaith gospel or any gospel
HEED NOT A WORD OUTTA THEY LIPS . they walk in vain and believe in vain and their faith is in another .
NOT GOD but in another . And that one feeds the god of their mirror
YE shall , YE can , TRust in your own faith in ya own self it hollers . but the end of that man is the second death and he knows it not .

@amigo de christo

 

[Scott Downey]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

]

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.​

***********************************************************************​

Always good to keep ourselves rooted into the word of God, what is taught about our glorious salvation that God through Christ accomplished for us. Our salvation is the work of God.​

Sonship Through the Spirit​

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba,[e] Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

From Suffering to Glory​

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[St. SteVen]

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.​

***********************************************************************​

Always good to keep ourselves rooted into the word of God, what is taught about our glorious salvation that God through Christ accomplished for us. Our salvation is the work of God.​

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

[

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

]

Faith is trust in the evidence. In the case of the Christian faith, we trust in Jesus, namely that he was raised from the dead permanently. It's historical evidence, which is always confirmed by eyewitnesses. The eyewitnesses in the Bible were willing to suffer three kinds of persecution as well as death but never gave up their stories that they saw Jesus alive from the dead. If God the Father has that kind of power, he certainly was able to do all the other things that are reported in the Bible. Therefore, his salvation is real and powerful, as all of us believers can also testify to.

 

[amigo de christo]

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.​

***********************************************************************​

Always good to keep ourselves rooted into the word of God, what is taught about our glorious salvation that God through Christ accomplished for us. Our salvation is the work of God.​

Sonship Through the Spirit​

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba,[e] Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

From Suffering to Glory​

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

Yet unto all who believe not the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON will wail on the day of the LORD .
lets never forget the YE GOTTA BELEIVE IN JESUS part . ever , neveha evah forget that .

 

[amigo de christo]

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

[

inclusivity will save none and damn all . It has come ONLY to merge the religoins as one under a lie of a Harlot .
NEVER ever forget that .
They sure can holler GOD is love a lot but point none , remind none of the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON
JESUS the CHRIST . I know what is going on within that mother harlot , SHE desires power over all religions
and has TROD HIM under foot as she beleives SHE holds the keys . I know all about the inclusive beliefset of this pope
and others . ITS all a lie . It might use partial truths , BUT BABY it omits the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HE who GOD did send .
Its a false gospel . All who heed it will burn in the lake of fire . Time we remind all
AS DID peter and the apostels , about the DIRE DIRE DIRE need to BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . they aint fooling me .
Never sip from the cup of a harlot , cause she pours only fornication to drink .

 

[Behold]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

Any Certainty has to be believed, universally, before it can become a universal certainty.

Nothing is certain that we can SEE, until its tested and proven, perfectly.... multiple times.... and then we can believe it.

Now, a lie, makes a certainty out of something false.


Christianity, is built on Jesus, who is The Truth combined with the fact that Jesus rose from the Dead.

God created Salvation, based on our Faith in Christ.
The reason its "faith based" is because we are required to believe in, what we can't SEE.
That takes Faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Jesus warned that the world would hate us - And for good reason

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation​

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

 

[Behold]

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation​

God's Salvation is JESUS on The Cross.

Thats a certainty.

And, ""all who place their faith in Christ, will be saved", and that is a certainty.
You have God's promise and God's promise is a certainty.

If you do not place your faith in Chirst, and become born again, before you die, you will go to Hell after you die.
That is a certainty, ... = so, when Forum Liars tell you that Hell is not real, or that Hell is no longer in operation, or that Hell is not a place of eternal consequence for dying never born again, then mark this Liar, as a DECEIVER.... and have nothing to do with them.

 

[St. SteVen]

God's Salvation is JESUS on The Cross.

Thats a certainty.

Why would you leave Him there? (on the cross)

And, ""all who place their faith in Christ, will be saved", and that is a certainty.
You have God's promise and God's promise is a certainty.

That's contradictory. Faith and certainty are at odds.
If it is certainty, it is not faith.

If you do not place your faith in Chirst, and become born again, before you die, you will go to Hell after you die.
That is a certainty, ... = so, when Forum Liars tell you that Hell is not real, or that Hell is no longer in operation, or that Hell is not a place of eternal consequence for dying never born again, then mark this Liar, as a DECEIVER.... and have nothing to do with them.

You can't be certain of any of this.
Have you been to hell to confirm its existence?

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation​

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

We are saved the way the writer to the Hebrews says in Heb 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" and the way Paul says too (Eph 2:8-10), "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

How is your statement different from those verses?

 

[shepherdsword]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

All the reams of apologetics to make the mystery of faith appear to be a certainty.

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

]

Many think that they are saved. In both Christianity and other religions. Many say "I know that I know that I know" and that's all well and good. Hopefully that is true. However, the only time we will be absolutely certain is on the day of judgement. Until then we can be deceived. Muslims believe they are "saved". Mormons have the "burning in the bosom" assurance. They are just as confident as we are. We will all know the truth on this day:

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[PinSeeker]

Faith is not required to believe a certainty.

Faith, Steven, God’s assurance of things hoped for, and conviction by the Holy Spirit of things unseen (Hebrews 11:1), is a certainty. Just because we doubt from time to time does nothing to diminish the certainty of God’s promises and gifts, which cannot and will not be revoked… are irrevocable. So the faith we have is unshakably indicative of both our present and future reality and salvation. One great day, our faith will be ~ will be, certainly ~ sight.

How much energy do we expend attempting to promote salvation as a certainty?

If it is something so great, so magnificent, is it not worth shouting from the mountaintops to anyone who will listen, even to ourselves? And faith comes by hearing (Romans 10), so I would say, “as much as we can…” <smile>

Were we saved by grace through certainty, or saved by grace through faith?

I’m… yes. <smile> I mean the second part there is straight Scripture… Ephesians 2:8… and to the first part, yes, God was and is certain in everything He does… <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

God is not a Calvinist.

Well, right, but Calvin was… a God-ist. <smile>

Jesus is not a Calvinist.

I mean sure, but Calvin was… a Jesus-ist. <smile>

Paul is not a Calvinist.

Well, right, but Paul was certainly… a God-ist and a Jesus-ist… so in that sense, Calvin was a Paul-ist. <smile>

Calvin TWISTED a few verses in the NT to falsely teach that God chooses some for Hell…

Calvin absolutely, unequivocally did not teach that. Not in any way, shape or form, or form. That’s the perception of many, but he did not; none of the reformers did.

and then sends them to Hell for being a Christ Rejector.

The truth is, we are all “Christ Rejectors” from the outset… by nature “children of wrath, dead in our sin, like the rest of mankind” (Ephesians 2). But some of us are at some point born again of the Holy Spirit ~ by God’s grace we are saved ~ at which point we are given to Christ by the Father and become… Christ’s followers, His sheep, who hear His voice and follow Him (John 10).

The ones who remain as they were/are, who remain dead in their sin, who continue to “exchange the truth for a lie” and “worship creation rather than the Creator” God “gives up to their own selfish passions and desires” (Romans 1), so He does not “choose some for Hell” but rather leaves them to what they have chosen, really, for themselves.

Let me run that past you again

I think you ought not, because it’s a false assertion, a false accusation. <smile>

@Randy Kluth .


God wont CHOOSE some to believe…

No, God won’t choose some to give His mercy and compassion on. Therefore they will not ever have this new God-given spirit, will not have His Spirit, because they will never be born again of the Spirit. Therefore they will never see the kingdom of God, and because of this, they will continue in their unbelief.

Calvinism is teaching that : = God wont let them believe, (wont choose them to believe) and then they are sent to Hell for being UNBELIEVERS..

Absolutely not. See above.

Calvinism… recreates then DEFINES God as a Cosmic Psychopath.....

Behold, I’m not in any way, shape, or form saying you’re ridiculous, but this kind of assertion or accusation is itself absolutely absurd… and thus ridiculous.

One more thing:

…their UNBELIEF that GOD caused…

Ah. No, Adam caused this. In the events of Genesis 3. All of creation, including by nature all mankind, became fallen because of what he did. And our natural unbelief is a product of this. But then there is the grace of God, His undeserved favor, which we ~ many of us anyway, the ones who are the undeserving recipients of His saving mercy and compassion, His favor ~ never cease to give Him thanks and praise for. Oh, and glory, of course. Yes, to God alone be the glory (soli del Gloria). <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[St. SteVen]

Many think that they are saved. In both Christianity and other religions. Many say "I know that I know that I know" and that's all well and good. Hopefully that is true. However, the only time we will be absolutely certain is on the day of judgement. Until then we can be deceived. Muslims believe they are "saved". Mormons have the "burning in the bosom" assurance. They are just as confident as we are. We will all know the truth on this day:

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

So, you have no assurance of salvation? Not a fan of OSAS then, I suppose.

 

[shepherdsword]

So, you have no assurance of salvation? Not a fan of OSAS then, I suppose.

I have the assurance that is based on the scriptures. However, like I said, many false religions have total assurance. No one that is deceived knows it. We will all find out for sure on the day of judgement.

 

[St. SteVen]

I have the assurance that is based on the scriptures. However, like I said, many false religions have total assurance. No one that is deceived knows it. We will all find out for sure on the day of judgement.

Won't that be too late to do anything about it? (on the day of judgement)
Then what?

--- PARODY ---

OSAS person: Are you saved?
NOSAS person: What do you mean?
OSAS person: Do you have salvation in Jesus Christ?
NOSAS person: No one does.
OSAS person: Seriously?
NOSAS person: Yes. You have to persevere to the end.
OSAS person: So, you have to wait and see?
NOSAS person: I suppose so.
OSAS person: What if you don't make it?
NOSAS person: I guess I'm toast.
OSAS person: That's tragic!