When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[covenantee]

The account of 70AD in Roman armies in Jerusalem is provided by (Flavius Josephus) who was a military leader and Jewish traitor to his people, he defected to the Roman Emperor of the time and was his high priest in propaganda, being given wives and a palace to live in, he was comparable to Hitlers Joseph Goebbles

As I have shared several times, Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming Are Future Events "Unfulfilled"

I stick with God's Holy Words that are sufficient for teaching and knowledge in righteousness

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

While no historian is infallible, Josephus is a widely recognized historian of his era.

You're not.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Josephus

Hint?

Still waiting for you to tell us what the Judaean Christians told you.

 

[Timtofly]

Christ said one generation of people would see all the things he spoke of in the OD so there is no gap in the OD.

Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

That is not what Luke 21 states. It does not say a generation would see all things. It states all things will be fulfilled by the last generation.

Many things in Luke 21 started to be fulfilled in the first century, but all would not be fulfilled until the Second Coming.

Only the generation that is witness to the return of Jesus will not physically die prior to that Second Coming.

This is what happens in verse 30: a parable.

"Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand."

The rebirth of Israel as a nation.

This is what happens in verses 27-28:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

The Second Coming.

At what point in time do you say all these things have been seen? No one in 70AD saw all these things.

Luke 21 is not the Olivet Discourse. Luke 21 is Jesus still talking at the Temple. See verse 37:

"And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives."

It is not until that verse, do we know Jesus had gone to the Mount of Olives. Anything prior to that verse could have easily been said at the Temple without contradicting any other Scriptures.

70AD and the destruction of the Temple in Luke 21:24. There is a gap between verse 24 and 25 known as "the time of the Gentiles", where the Gospel would go out to all nations all the way up until the Second Coming. One generation would not see all things, but all things would be fulfilled by the time that last generation existed.

"Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

The verse does not say:

"Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all see everything happen."

 

[David in NJ]

The only thing you stick with is your hyperactive imagination.

While no historian is infallible, Eusebius is widely recognized and acclaimed as the Father of Church History.

You're not.

His contribution to historical orthodox Christianity is undeniable.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Eusebius, Father of Church History

Eusubius is not the "father of Church History"

Whom to believe?

You better make 100% sure it is this = Matthew 4:4

 

[covenantee]

Eusubius is not the "father of Church History"

Whom to believe?

You better make 100% sure it is this = Matthew 4:4

"His extensive writings provide a comprehensive record of the early Church from the apostolic period through the early fourth century. This work earned him the enduring title of “The Father of Church History.”"

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

I would like to ask a question.

If the Jews are still God's chosen people, why would God allow the temple to be destroyed both times?



Are the Jews still his chosen? I don't know all that much about Judaism.

Thank you for helping me to understand.

 

[covenantee]

I would like to ask a question.

If the Jews are still God's chosen people, why would God allow the temple to be destroyed both times?



Are the Jews still his chosen? I don't know all that much about Judaism.

Thank you for helping me to understand.

God's only Chosen are those faithful and obedient to Him and Christ His Son.

That includes only the Jews who are faithful and obedient to Him and Christ His Son, and only the Gentiles who are faithful and obedient to Him and Christ His Son.

Together, they are known as the Christian Church.

 

[David in NJ]

"His extensive writings provide a comprehensive record of the early Church from the apostolic period through the early fourth century. This work earned him the enduring title of “The Father of Church History.”"

The extensive Work of the Holy Spirit is that which the FATHER desires you to know.
Stop waisting precious time reading the works of men.
Read and Believe God's Word = Matthew 4:4


For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[covenantee]

The extensive Work of the Holy Spirit is that which the FATHER desires you to know.
Stop waisting precious time reading the works of men.
Read and Believe God's Word = Matthew 4:4


For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Stop thinking that only you possess truth, and that God does not reveal truth to others.

That is classic cultism.

 

[David in NJ]

I would like to ask a question.

If the Jews are still God's chosen people, why would God allow the temple to be destroyed both times?



Are the Jews still his chosen? I don't know all that much about Judaism.

Thank you for helping me to understand.

God destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem both times for these reasons:
#1 - they brought idolatry into the Temple
#2 - they refused to repent when God sent them prophets who told them what they needed to repent from
#3 - they murdered the prophets and the Son of God = read Matthew 23:29-39

 

[David in NJ]

Stop thinking that only you possess truth, and that God does not reveal truth to others.

That is classic cultism.

#1 - Stop falsely accusing the Brethren in Christ (work of the devil).

#2 - You have been instructed by the LORD Jesus Christ to do this = Matthew 4:4

#3 - It is God's Joy for you to be filled with the Holy Spirit but if you refuse you will be agitated by those who have.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

God destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem both times for these reasons:
#1 - they brought idolatry into the Temple
#2 - they refused to repent when God sent them prophets who told them what they needed to repent from
#3 - they murdered the prophets and the Son of God = read Matthew 23:29-39

Thank you for that.

So now,with all the Jews have suffered since, do you think that is God's punishment still? Beyond the destruction of both temples?

Could God have abandoned the Jews?

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you for that.

So now,with all the Jews have suffered since, do you think that is God's punishment still? Beyond the destruction of both temples?

Could God have abandoned the Jews?

The Jews abandoned God when they falsely accused His Son JESUS and then had Him crucified.

In God's love for the Jewish nation, He made a promise that they would never be wiped off the face of the earth as satan desires.
Read Jeremiah 31:31-37

God has always preserved Jewish people in Himself throughout the ages, even now, as many Jews are coming to trust in their MESSIAH LJC

JESUS promised that HE will return to the Jewish nation to save them from utter destruction from the surrounding nations who hate them.
Read Zechariah chapter 14 and Matthew 23:39 and carefully read Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11

PLEASE believe what JESUS says about Himself as it applies to the Jew and to the Gentile = EQUALLY
Gospel of John chapters 1 , 2 and 3

Shalom

 

[covenantee]

The Jews abandoned God when they falsely accused His Son JESUS and then had Him crucified.

In God's love for the Jewish nation, He made a promise that they would never be wiped off the face of the earth as satan desires.
Read Jeremiah 31:31-37

God has always preserved Jewish people in Himself throughout the ages, even now, as many Jews are coming to trust in their MESSIAH LJC

JESUS promised that HE will return to the Jewish nation to save them from utter destruction from the surrounding nations who hate them.
Read Zechariah chapter 14 and Matthew 23:39 and carefully read Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11

PLEASE believe what JESUS says about Himself as it applies to the Jew and to the Gentile = EQUALLY
Gospel of John chapters 1 , 2 and 3

Shalom

The only people that God has preserved and will never be wiped off the face of the earth are those who are faithful and obedient to God and His Son.

Their ethnicity is irrelevant.

 

[David in NJ]

@covenantee

Shalom and Good Night

 

[covenantee]

Thank you for that.

So now,with all the Jews have suffered since, do you think that is God's punishment still? Beyond the destruction of both temples?

Could God have abandoned the Jews?

We need to distinguish between Jews by race and Jews by religion.

Both have the opportunity to come to Christ.

But Jews by religion have abandoned God because they have abandoned Christ. 1 John 2:23

Until they come to Christ, they are lost.

If they choose to abandon Christ without ever turning to Him, then God must ultimately in His justice abandon them.

 

[Truth7t7]

"His extensive writings provide a comprehensive record of the early Church from the apostolic period through the early fourth century. This work earned him the enduring title of “The Father of Church History.”"

Eusebius was a follower of Origen from Alexandrian, he protected Arius from Alexandria and promoted his Arian heresy fighting against the Trinitarians, he promoted the teachings of Philo and Plato, he was Emperor Constantines water boy for the first Nicean Council, he persecuted the true Christians who were fighting for the Trinitarian cause

Eusebius was a "Arian Heretic" and a persecutor of the Christian Church, he used Emperor Constantine to carry out punishment against Trinitarian Church Fathers

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine.[citation needed] After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]

 

[covenantee]

Eusebius was a follower of Origen from Alexandrian, he protected Arius from Alexandria and promoted his Arian heresy fighting against the Trinitarians, he promoted the teachings of Philo and Plato, he was Emperor Constantines water boy for the first Nicean Council, he persecuted the true Christians who were fighting for the Trinitarian cause

Eusebius was a "Arian Heretic" and a persecutor of the Christian Church, he used Emperor Constantine to carry out punishment against Trinitarian Church Fathers

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine.[citation needed] After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]

Your perspective is unbalanced.

He's still acclaimed as The Father of Church History.

His contributions to the Christian faith far outweigh his personal liabilities.

You need to find and exercise the appropriate amount of objectivity to rebalance your perspective.

And there's certainly no reason not to believe his account of the Judaean Christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your perspective is unbalanced.

He's still acclaimed as The Father of Church History.

His contributions to the Christian faith far outweigh his personal liabilities.

You need to find and exercise the appropriate amount of objectivity to rebalance your perspective.

And there's certainly no reason not to believe his account of the Judaean Christians.

Eusebius was a Arian Heretic, and a persecutor of the Christian Church, He was a water boy for Emperor Constantine

 

[covenantee]

Eusebius was a Arian Heretic, and a persecutor of the Christian Church, He was a water boy for Emperor Constantine

Unbalanced.

 

[Truth7t7]

Unbalanced.

Eusebius was a "Arian Heretic" and a persecutor of the Christian Church, he used Emperor Constantine to carry out punishment against Trinitarian Church Fathers

Wikipedia: Eusebius of Caesarea
Eusebius succeeded Agapius as Bishop of Caesarea soon after 313 and was called on by Arius who had been excommunicated by his bishop Alexander of Alexandria. An episcopal council in Caesarea pronounced Arius blameless.[38] Eusebius enjoyed the favor of the Emperor Constantine. Because of this he was called upon to present the creed of his own church to the 318 attendees of the Council of Nicaea in 325.[39] However, the anti-Arian creed from Palestine prevailed, becoming the basis for the Nicene Creed.[40]

The theological views of Arius, that taught the subordination of the Son to the Father, continued to be controversial. Eustathius of Antioch strongly opposed the growing influence of Origen's theology as the root of Arianism. Eusebius, an admirer of Origen, was reproached by Eustathius for deviating from the Nicene faith. Eusebius prevailed and Eustathius was deposed at a synod in Antioch.

However, Athanasius of Alexandria became a more powerful opponent and in 334 he was summoned before a synod in Caesarea (which he refused to attend). In the following year, he was again summoned before a synod in Tyre at which Eusebius of Caesarea presided. Athanasius, foreseeing the result, went to Constantinople to bring his cause before the Emperor. Constantine called the bishops to his court, among them Eusebius. Athanasius was condemned and exiled at the end of 335. Eusebius remained in the Emperor's favour throughout this time and more than once was exonerated with the explicit approval of the Emperor Constantine. After the Emperor's death (c. 337), Eusebius wrote the Life of Constantine, an important historical work because of eyewitness accounts and the use of primary sources.[41]