14 IRRESOLVABLE CONTRADICTIONS WHICH RESULT FROM A LITERAL RICH MAN AND LAZARUS

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PS95

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Adam became a "living soul" when God breathed His Breath into him.

Count to THREE = " You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength."
Yep, nephesh (soul) in Hebrew has more than one meaning. Cults deliberately ignore that.

As a JW kid I was taught that our soul is just our body and spirit is just our breath.
I remember wondering why Jesus gave God His breath?
Did God need His breath back? Why?
I was not allowed to question that or anything though. that would be as if I questioned God Himself. ugh

Now, I wonder what exactly IS the "impersonal life-force of Michael" that God supposedly put into "Mary's ovum."and why did Michael go out of existence with out it.. Did Michael die? Then, when Jesus was on the cross- that life-force from Michael left Him and went back to heaven so that Michael could be re-created by God. Jesus? Well, he is dead forever.
Something just always seemed wrong there too.
So this life-force of Michael's... it doesn't sound like just breath to me. How could it be impersonal if it was Michael's, and then Jesus needed it and Michael needed it back to be re-created. It sounds pretty personal to me. Sort of like a soul or spirit?

JWs do not like to talk about that teaching. It makes them very uneasy. They'll even say you are lying! I have it all documented in their own magazines and books. So who is the liar?
Same with Romans ch 6- they run when you turn on the light
Such a tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive.
 

amigo de christo

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YE, body.
YOUR sins, Body AND Soul.

Body commits Sin.
Souls commit Sin
Forgiven Sin of Body, of Soul. Covered.
Unforgiven Sin of Body…Body shall Die in its Sin.
Unforgiven Sin of Soul… Soul shall In its Sin.
THEN i suggest we tell this generation , FLEE any shape or form of interfaith .
Do be encouraged my friend .
 
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PS95

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I see lots of false teaching in this thread which is heavily influenced by false Seventh-Day Adventist doctrine, so I will share what I believe to be the truth of the matter.

Human beings consist of body, soul and spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, a whole human can be referred to as a soul, but that should not be confused with the fact that we are "wholly" made up of "spirit and soul and body". as Paul taught. So, while we can be referred to as souls, we also have a soul. I've noticed that there are many people on this site who don't accept certain things that Paul taught and this seems to be yet another one.

Scripture makes it quite clear that people have consciousness after they die, as evidenced by passages like Luke 16:19-31 and Revelation 6:9-11 as well as the passages which give the account of Jesus's transfiguration where He talked to Moses and Elijah. Some people have chosen to twist those scriptures or ignore them, to their shame.

There is a debate about whether Luke 16:19-31 is a parable or not. It shouldn't be a debate. Since when do parables contain references to real people and real places? Since never. That alone shows that it is not a parable. But, let's say that it was a parable. Would that change the fact that Jesus is giving the impression that people are conscious in hell? No. He gave that impression regardless of whether it's a parable or not. So, why would He give that impression if it isn't the case that people have consciousness there? That makes no sense. He would not do that. And, again, how did Jesus talk to Moses and Elijah if there is no consciousness after physical death? Those who believe in soul sleep are cherry pickers who ignore scriptures like these while misinterpreting their cherry picked verses that contradict these other verses.

I'll address one verse they commonly use for now (Ecclesiastes 9:5) and show how they misinterpret it.

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.4 Anyone who is among the living has hope—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.

So, those who believe in the false doctrine of soul sleep see the statement "the dead know nothing" and draw conclusions from it without even looking at the context. Context is very important, so to ignore the context of scripture is foolish. So, what is the context here? That people know nothing and have no consciousness after they die? No, not at all. The context is that once people are dead they no longer know or experience the things they experienced "under the sun", which refers to what they experience on earth, under the sun, before they die. Once a person dies they no longer know/experience anything on the earth because their life on earth is over. That's all this means. It does not mean they have no consciousness after no longer being under the sun. Nowhere does this passage indicate such a thing.

Notice what it says in verse 6 above. That verse explains what verse 5 is about. The "nothing" that the dead no longer know is "their love, their hate and their jealousy" that they had during their lives under the sun. They don't nkow those things anymore because they are dead and will no longer experience life on earth under the sun. That's all that means. Them knowing nothing is not a comment on their state of consciousness after death, but rather that they no longer have physical/bodily life and can no longer do the things that they did when they were physically alive.
Nice @Spiritual Israelite , add this though...

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.4 Anyone who is among the living has hope—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.

According to JWs and SDA- if they believe this passage that way- then once they die they have NO FURTHER REWARD.
They conveniently ignore that. And yet, they certainly do not think that they have no further reward after death.
And IDK about SDA's on this but JWs insist that Jehovah keeps you in His memory. Nope even your name is forgotten.
And I'm fairly certain that JWs still plan on 1000 years under the sun... under (Michael's) rule planting gardens, and having children..
 

amigo de christo

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What mystifies men, is already Accounted done regarding God.
You sure might wanna try and explain that one my friend .
But always remember this too ,
Compare what JESUS said , paul and others said
concering the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and what would occur to those who failed to do so .
Now be prepared to hear a MAJOR stark difference From what we been hearing today .
People can harp on me all day if they so desire , NOT saying you do , But remember this well .
I NEVER ONCE gave anyone false hope . Not on any site or wherever i am .
I have Sounded out THE DIRE NEED TO REPENT to BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST
and have reminded all of that dire necessity and the dire result of those who failed to do so .
BUT SO DID JESUS and SO did all them apostels . And i challenge us all
to go and examine if what i just said was true or false . BE prepared
you will see VERY grave warnings against those who failed to repent to believe on CHRIST
and you will only hear this one response to HOW one can be saved , YA MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Now i challenge all to PROVE ME WRONG about this . AND i have also not shunned to declare
THAT JESUS dont agree with , accept in any way , ANY SIN .
AGAIN show me my error . Not saying you think i am false , but i do see a danger in even you
YOU GOTS to get away from anyone who has anything to do with this interfaith calling .
Deadly it is and we want nothing to do with it .
 

Taken

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You sure might wanna try and explain that one my friend .
Examples.

Man waits to SEE…what his new body will look like.


Man waits to SEE…what Heaven on Earth wiil look like.

Man waits to SEE…what will be, God already has the Records, the Knowing, the Preparation.

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Wick Stick

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They aren't. "But the rest of the dead (the wicked) lived not again until the thousand years were finished."
Doesn't that imply that they did live again after the thousand years? And if so, then the original question remains - why resurrect someone just so that you can condemn them to die again?
"Souls under the altar crying out" and "Abel's blood crieth out" are symbolic expressions. Since the "life" is in the "blood" what these expressions means is that when God sees unjust bloodshed, His justice cries out within him for vengeance.

White and red corpuscles on the ground don't have vocal cords and "disembodied souls" neither have vocal cords or hang around under altars because there's no such thing as a "disembodied soul". Souls cease to exist at death.
Unsure of all that. Revelation certainly seems to be figurative. But the New Testament makes 3 references to a non-canonical work that doesn't seem to frame it figuratively.
 

Marvelloustime

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You sure might wanna try and explain that one my friend .
But always remember this too ,
Compare what JESUS said , paul and others said
concering the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and what would occur to those who failed to do so .
Now be prepared to hear a MAJOR stark difference From what we been hearing today .
People can harp on me all day if they so desire , NOT saying you do , But remember this well .
I NEVER ONCE gave anyone false hope . Not on any site or wherever i am .
I have Sounded out THE DIRE NEED TO REPENT to BELEIVE ON JESUS CHRIST
and have reminded all of that dire necessity and the dire result of those who failed to do so .
BUT SO DID JESUS and SO did all them apostels . And i challenge us all
to go and examine if what i just said was true or false . BE prepared
you will see VERY grave warnings against those who failed to repent to believe on CHRIST
and you will only hear this one response to HOW one can be saved , YA MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Now i challenge all to PROVE ME WRONG about this . AND i have also not shunned to declare
THAT JESUS dont agree with , accept in any way , ANY SIN .
AGAIN show me my error . Not saying you think i am false , but i do see a danger in even you
YOU GOTS to get away from anyone who has anything to do with this interfaith calling .
Deadly it is and we want nothing to do with it .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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I am the RESSURECTION and the LIFE .
Death came upon them the moment they bit from the tree .
To have eternal life one must eat of the TRUE TREE of LIFE , drinking from the pure and holy cistern of the living waters OF THE LORD .
The hour is late my friend .
Many this day do nothing but preach so many differencent concepts
trying so hard to sell the idea of How one can be saved without having to beleive , RATHER THAN preaching the ONLY NAME OF HE WHO DOES SAVE
with the REMINDER if ye want to be saved , YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all for the hour is late and the building is burning
and souls need to be saved and THUS ONLY CHRIST JESUS can be preached .
For it PLEASED GOD by preaching to Save those who do BELIEVE .
@amigo de christo
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Bladerunner

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BY CORRECTLY CONCLUDING that the story of Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable, we maintain Scriptural harmony, discern a valuable lesson from its interpretation, and put an end to its illegitimate use as a "proof text" for the doctrine of Eternal Torment - because any Bible scholar worth his salt knows we can't substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable.
This was a story from Jesus. Not a parable..why not...for every parable that Jesus told His Apostles, He did not want the pharasees, etc to hear. In addition, Jesus also called each one a parable. Thirdly, none of the parables contained a Proper Noun (i.e. Lazarus). This is a story with real people and real names, Below I will try to explain why Jesus did this.
Here are 14 irresolvable contradictions which result from attempts to make the passage literal:
Rem, Jesus/God is the author of every word in the Bible. There are no contradictions.
1. DISEMBODIED BODIES?
The Eternal Torment crowd claims when a person dies his body is buried, but “his disembodied soul" leaves this world to points beyond without a body - so, why do the Rich Man, Lazarus, and Abraham have eyes, fingers, tongues, bosoms, legs to carry a warning, etc.? Obviously, "disembodied souls" by definition do not have bodies, and thus can't have eyes, tongues, fingers, bosoms, etc
Were not the demons that Jesus put into pigs not have eyes, could speak, hear and have knowledge..Yes, they knew who Jesus was and knew that He could have sent them back to Hell. As a Demon body is spirit in nature, it appears they have to have a fleshly body to live on this earth. You are mistaken, as our souls contain all of us. It is what will be tormented for eternity in the Lake of Fire. No contradiction here.
Now, before anyone jumps to any conclusions, we need to remember that 2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV plainly identifies only two types of bodies - the mortal and the resurrection - and that's the only two types of bodies God's Bible knows about. There's no mention in Scripture of any third type “interim body” for the dead prior to the resurrection, so extra-Biblical ideas about a "disembodied body" or "ghost body" or "temporary body" are pure fiction and warrant no consideration whatsoever.
The Bible does speak of our Soul and our Spirit.. An extra one, I will let you research a little. The two types of Bodies you are speaking about are : Mortal bodies are those we are born with. They are simply containers that carry the soul and spirit around while we are on this earth. To the people of earth, they are you...thus when they bury you they mourn you. Yet, they are a bucket, a sack, a complex container that will return to dust. The Soul /spirit will reside in one of two places once they die. Heaven or Hell...Jesus tell us that to be out of the body is to be with Him. Not a contradiction here?
2. ABRAHAM'S LITERAL BOSOM?
Lazarus was carried “into Abraham's bosom" - are we to believe all the righteous dead up until that time have been carried into Abraham's literal bosom? How big can Abraham's bosom be?
Abraham's bosom is located in the same place that Hades is at. According to the Rich Man and Lazarus tells us there are two places here each separated from the other by a great chasm. We also find that in Isaiah 5:14, "Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure:.....". Rem also that Abraham is one of the fathers of all peoples. No contradiction here!
Now, those who claim “Abraham's Bosom” is a literal, actual name for “heaven” or “paradise” need to read Luke 16:23 KJV which says the Rich Man sees Abraham afar off and Lazarus "in his bosom” - in the bosom of the man himself - which is physiological, not geographical.
The Area was all Abaham's Bosom, the Rich man and Lazarus tells us that of two areas , not a physical bosom where the damned and the saved of the OT have been kept. They that are Damned will be kept here until the Great White Throne Judgement...Jesus was here for three days and nights preaching to all...When He left, he took all in Abraham's Bosom with Him to Paradise (i.e. in heaven) and there they await the Rapture which will free their earthly bodies from the grave to reunite with them in the clouds...there their Bodies will be transfigured, like that of Jesus ready for Heaven. No contradiction here.
3. LYING EYES?
The Rich Man is able to see “Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom” aka “place of comfort” aka “the kingdom” - but Jesus Himself said the wicked won't see the righteous in the kingdom until the end, in the Judgment, when the wicked are told to “depart”. Yet, here we find Lazarus and Abraham in full view of the Rich Man.
Abram's Bosom was not the Kingdom( so the wicked did not see the Kingdom) but rather a holding place for those who had died in belief of God (the Father). (Jesus was not known in the Old Testament)
it is interesting that the Rich Man had all of His capacities he carried while on earth. He could feel, taste, see,hear,think (i.e knew He was in pain and torment). He also remembered His family and never once did the Rich Man say He was not suppose to be where He was at..He knew He had sinned and had not repented (turned away from sin). There was something else...No one was around Him like there was with Lazarus...Jesus tells us the Damned will go to their own place. There will be no parties in Gehennah (lake of Fire and Brimstone). There are no contradictions here!
Now, for those who claim these dead guys are actually in some supposed “holding chamber” next door to hell called “paradise” (now that we've seen “Abraham's Bosom” is a purely fictitious place), we must remember that “paradise” is easily shown from the Scriptures themselves to be where God is up there, not anywhere near hell down here.
Jesus tells us this story, yet you say it is false. How can you believe in Jesus Christ totally if you cannot believe in ALL of HIS WORDs. No contradictions here!
4. THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING
(Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Job 14:21 KJV; Psalm 146:4 KJV)

These dead guys sure seem to know a whole lot for people who aren't supposed to know anything.

5. THE DEAD DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING
(Psalms 6:5 KJV; Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Psalms 88:12 KJV)

These dead guys are sure able to remember a whole lot for people who aren't supposed to remember anything.

6. THE DEAD DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS
(Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV; Proverbs 10:28 KJV)

These dead guys do a great job of demonstrating loving concern and also condescending disdain for people who aren't supposed to be able to have emotions.

7. THE DEAD DON'T PERFORM WORK
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV; John 9:4 KJV)

The dead Rich Man mustn't have gotten the memo that Lazarus had finished his shift and clocked out - permanently.

8. THE DEAD DON'T DEVISE ANYTHING
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV)

The dead Rich Man was well able to devise a plan to warn his brothers for someone unable to do so.

9. THE DEAD DON'T HAVE WISDOM
(Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV; Proverbs 2:6 KJV)

Dead Abraham was well able give wise testimony about the convicting power of the Word of God for someone unable to do so.

10. THE DEAD DON'T PRAISE GOD
(Isaiah 38:18 KJV; Psalms 115:17 KJV; Psalms 88:11 KJV)

Dead Abraham sure spoke highly of God's Word for someone unable to do so.

11. THE DEAD ARE IN DARKNESS
(Psalms 88:12 KJV; Job 10:21-22 KJV)

These dead guys must all have been wearing night vision goggles to see through all that darkness.

12. THE DEAD ARE IN SILENCE
(Psalms 115:17 KJV; Psalm 31:17 KJV)

These dead guys were loud enough to wake the rest of the dead what with all that shouting back and forth at each other across that great gulf.

13. THE DEAD ARE ASLEEP
(Psalms 13:3 KJV; Ephesians 5:14 KJV; John 11:11-14 KJV)

These dead guys are fully awake and aware of their surroundings, especially the thirsty guy whose completely engulfed in flames of torment.

14. THE DEAD ARE RESERVED FOR FUTURE TORMENT
(2 Peter 2:9 KJV; Revelation 20:10 KJV)

The dead Rich Man must have been pretty bad to find himself immediately in flames of torment since God Himself says He's “reserved the unjust unto the day of Judgment to be punished”.
Our containers, our body do die and will go into the grave. They do not according to the abovve scriptures know or can do anything. These dead bodies were simply a container of an eternal Soul/spirit. While the dead do not know anything as the above scriptures describe, the Soul is eternal and does not die, thus is not subject to the above verses.

I find no Contradictions in any of the above statements that you have made against GOD! Would be very careful not to damn yourself to Hell by your unbelief and wild accusations of the eternal Soul. The one that GOD gave you when He gave you that first breath from His Nostrils.
 

Grailhunter

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The story/parable of the rich man and Lazarus and whether it represents a factual story has been pondered and debated for centuries.

But still a lot of people miss the point….and that is the moral of the story/parable…. “Seek salvation before it is too late.” This fact cannot be disputed and it is the one fact that scholars agree on. And this is the important point that needs to be taken from the story/parable.

The story/parable actual or not falls in the category of enigma. Proven by the centuries of debate by good Christians. I do not attempt to punch holes in the story/parable because I think it is important.
 
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