A proof that the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people is in the heavenly throne room, not the earth

[Marilyn C]

Why do you speak of that only in a future sense? Have you never read this...

Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest....22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Or this...

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Those in the Body of Christ in the third heaven now, do not have their glorified bodies yet.

 

[Marilyn C]

When does this 1,000 years rule begin?

The 1,000 year rule of Christ through Israel over the nations begins 15 days after the celebration of Purim, the 15th of Adar. (Dan. 12: 12) That then is the beginning of Israel`s New Year.

This is the fulfillment of the Feast of Purim - National Celebrations for final deliverance from their enemies. 1,335 days after the A/C rules.

1,260 A/C rules.
1,290 Temple cleansed.
1,335 National Celebrations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus will return to the Mt of Olives in Jerusalem which He stand on, splitting it in half, Zechariah 14:1-4.

He will rule from Jerusalem in Israel, 1000 years, the camp of the saints, and the city, in Revelation 20:9 that will be attacked one last time after the 1000 years are over, Revelation 20:7-8.

Can you show me where Zechariah 14 describes Satan's little season? Thanks.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Those in the Body of Christ in the third heaven now, do not have their glorified bodies yet.

The souls of the dead in Christ are there, but did you even read the scriptures? It says living believers have spiritually come to the heavenly Jerusalem and spiritually sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus right now. You don't seem to want to acknowledge spiritual realities that exist now on the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Can you show me where Zechariah 14 describes Satan's little season? Thanks.

Not every Prophet has every detail.

 

[Truth7t7]

The 1,000 year rule of Christ through Israel over the nations begins 15 days after the celebration of Purim, the 15th of Adar. (Dan. 12: 12) That then is the beginning of Israel`s New Year.

This is the fulfillment of the Feast of Purim - National Celebrations for final deliverance from their enemies. 1,335 days after the A/C rules.

1,260 A/C rules.
1,290 Temple cleansed.
1,335 National Celebrations.

Where in this calculation is the second coming of Jesus Christ placed?

 

[Douggg]

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The "Eternal Kingdom" In The New Heaven And Earth, "After" The Day Of The Lord Takes Place

No, there is no attack on the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. There is no Mt. Olives in on the New Earth in Revelation 21.

Zechariah 14 will take place on this current earth. Follow by the 1000 year reign of Jesus from Jerusalem on this current earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, there is no attack on the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. There is no Mt. Olives in on the New Earth in Revelation 21.

Zechariah 14 will take place on this current earth. Follow by the 1000 year reign of Jesus from Jerusalem on this current earth.


View attachment 62331

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End) there won't be a Millennial Kingdom on this earth following

Try reading Zechariah 14:12 below again, the wicked are consumed as they stand on their feet!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Douggg]

Where in this calculation is the second coming of Jesus Christ placed?

Here is how the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 fit together....

 

[ewq1938]

You suggest that the book of revelation is in chronological order "Wrong", it's in "parallel" teachings of same events

The final judgment is seen below in Revelation 11:18 and Revelation 20:12, exactly the same final judgment of the dead with 8 chapters between the same judgement

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 20:12KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Two dif time periods. Rev 11 is the second coming when the saved dead are judged. Rev 20 is when the unsaved dead are judged. A thousand years separates the two days of judging.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show me where Zechariah 14 describes Satan's little season? Thanks.

If you are referring to the short time that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit prison to deceive the nations one last time in Revelation 20: 7-10 - then, no, I cannot in Zechariah 14.

 

[Truth7t7]

Two dif time periods. Rev 11 is the second coming when the saved dead are judged. Rev 20 is when the unsaved dead are judged. A thousand years separates the two days of judging.

No such thing as two different judgements found in the Holy Bible as you "falsely claim", Jesus taught that the judgement will be on "The Last Day" singular

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

Here is how the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 fit together....


View attachment 62333

Douggg I don't read your charts, no need to post them

 

[Marilyn C]

The souls of the dead in Christ are there, but did you even read the scriptures? It says living believers have spiritually come to the heavenly Jerusalem and spiritually sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus right now. You don't seem to want to acknowledge spiritual realities that exist now on the earth.

Ok so let`s write some detail.

I believe we are kings and priests now

King - learning to overcome the enemy who seeks to infiltrate our thoughts and have us acting in a non-loving way. Also, we are to discern the enemy`s false teachings. (2 Cor. 10: 3 - 6)

Priest - worship the Lord, honoring Him and interceding for others,

What do you think?

 

[Marilyn C]

Where in this calculation is the second coming of Jesus Christ placed?

Thank you for asking.


1,260 A/C rules. Jesus returns with His angelic army. 29 of Kislev the middle of the Festival of Lights. (counting back from Adar 15 Purim)

1,290 Temple cleansed. Jews return to Jerusalem from all over the world. (Isa. 66: 18 - 20)

1,335 National Celebrations. (Purim (Esther 9: 21) (1,290 + 30 + 15 leads to the 15th of Adar the last month of the Jewish calendar)

 

[Douggg]

Douggg I don't read your charts, no need to post them

That's your choice not to read. My choice is to provide a chart(s) when I think it is appropriate.

 

[Truth7t7]

1,290 Temple cleansed. Jews return to Jerusalem from all over the world. (Isa. 66: 18 - 20

That seen in Isaiah is in the New Heaven and Earth, there won't be a temple as you claim the Jews return to a cleansed temple from all over the world, it will be New Jerusalem and God's throne, the river and tree of life

Your Claim is "False"

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

No such thing as two different judgements found in the Holy Bible

Incorrect.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. Even the Amill scholar Barnes believes not only is there a judgment here but also states it is these dead martyrs that are being judged and there is only one judgment for them, eternal life!



John sees two groups of people/souls:

1. people sitting on thrones and judgment given to them
2. souls of the tribulation martyrs who instead of remaining dead are said to live with Christ

Claiming 1 and 2 are the same group doesn't make any sense. Those judging are not the second group mentioned. It can only be that second group of martyrs that were being judged and the judgment has to be a resurrection to life which we know is the reward for the dead in Christ.



We see the same event in Daniel:

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.


Here are multiple thrones and God the Father himself sitting there.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


And here again judgment is mentioned and a large group standing before him. This must be the dead in Christ being judged to life because it cannot apply to the unsaved because the beast hasn't yet been slain:


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


This beast of course is also seen in Rev 19 being destroyed at the return of Christ. What we then have been given is a judgment of a group before the beast is destroyed so that group must be the saved being judged to eternal life as we also see in Rev 20.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

And just like it is for the thousand years, some "beasts" (the wicked/unsaved/and satan himself) have their lives prolonged. Indeed during the thousand years satan and many unsaved gentiles of the world's nations will live through the thousand years.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. This is a judgment and resurrection of only the saved. The unsaved are judged at a later time and at a later resurrection: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" so clearly AFTER the Millennium is when these are resurrected and judged.


Another example of the righteous being judged separately from the wicked:


Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Christ does not address time in this but according to Rev 20, there is a period of time inbetween the judgment of the dead in Christ vs. the rest of the dead so we know there is time inbetween these two judgments. Even in human courts there is no such concept of judging someone a reward while judging someone to death. That happens at different times. The two don't belong in one court judgment.


1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

As you can see, the righteous are judged FIRST. Judgment starts with "us" as Peter confirms.

 

[Truth7t7]

Incorrect.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. Even the Amill scholar Barnes believes not only is there a judgment here but also states it is these dead martyrs that are being judged and there is only one judgment for them, eternal life!



John sees two groups of people/souls:

1. people sitting on thrones and judgment given to them
2. souls of the tribulation martyrs who instead of remaining dead are said to live with Christ

Claiming 1 and 2 are the same group doesn't make any sense. Those judging are not the second group mentioned. It can only be that second group of martyrs that were being judged and the judgment has to be a resurrection to life which we know is the reward for the dead in Christ.



We see the same event in Daniel:

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.


Here are multiple thrones and God the Father himself sitting there.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


And here again judgment is mentioned and a large group standing before him. This must be the dead in Christ being judged to life because it cannot apply to the unsaved because the beast hasn't yet been slain:


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


This beast of course is also seen in Rev 19 being destroyed at the return of Christ. What we then have been given is a judgment of a group before the beast is destroyed so that group must be the saved being judged to eternal life as we also see in Rev 20.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

And just like it is for the thousand years, some "beasts" (the wicked/unsaved/and satan himself) have their lives prolonged. Indeed during the thousand years satan and many unsaved gentiles of the world's nations will live through the thousand years.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. This is a judgment and resurrection of only the saved. The unsaved are judged at a later time and at a later resurrection: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" so clearly AFTER the Millennium is when these are resurrected and judged.


Another example of the righteous being judged separately from the wicked:


Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Christ does not address time in this but according to Rev 20, there is a period of time inbetween the judgment of the dead in Christ vs. the rest of the dead so we know there is time inbetween these two judgments. Even in human courts there is no such concept of judging someone a reward while judging someone to death. That happens at different times. The two don't belong in one court judgment.


1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

As you can see, the righteous are judged FIRST. Judgment starts with "us" as Peter confirms.

I Disagree, there is one future judgement of all that have lived, Revelation 20:11-15 is one of many places this one and only future judgement

You can repeat yourself a 100 times, I Disagree

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus will return to the Mt of Olives in Jerusalem which He stand on, splitting it in half, Zechariah 14:1-4.

He will rule from Jerusalem in Israel, 1000 years, the camp of the saints, and the city, in Revelation 20:9 that will be attacked one last time after the 1000 years are over, Revelation 20:7-8.

There is a city that God has prepared for the saints. And it is the heavenly Jerusalem. which is not of this earth

Hebrews 11:16
But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Galatians 4
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”