A proof that the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people is in the heavenly throne room, not the earth

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not every Prophet has every detail.

There is a lot of detail in Zechariah 14, but nothing about Satan's little season? Why not?

Why would you believe in future animal sacrifices when Jesus made animal sacrifices obsolete by His "once for all sacrifice" (Hebrews 10:1-14)? What would be the purpose of these supposed future animal sacrifices and what scripture do you have to support that purpose?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your claim is "False" as post #69 above clearly shows, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End) are you going to ignore the fact that Jesus returns in "Fire"?

Wrong. The end of time looks like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As Scripture says in many places, Jesus returns after the 70th week of Daniel ends, fights the armies of the antichrist (not Satan).

The earthly kingdom is the material of much OT prophesy that must be fulfilled. Teh only thing the NT adds to these prophesies is how long the earthly kingdom Jesus reigns over lasts.

 

[Douggg]

There is a lot of detail in Zechariah 14, but nothing about Satan's little season? Why not?

Zechariah 14 does not mentioned Satan at all. But we know from Revelation 20:1-3 that Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, then at the end of the 1000 years released for a short time to deceive the nations one last time, before being cast into the lake of fire.

Is there some sort of point you are trying to make ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Zechariah 14 does not mentioned Satan at all. But we know from Revelation 20:1-3 that Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, then at the end of the 1000 years released for a short time to deceive the nations one last time, before being cast into the lake of fire.

Is there some sort of point you are trying to make ?

What is described in Zechariah 14 does not match what is described in Revelation 20. Why would Zechariah make no mention of Satan's binding or Satan's little season if it relates directly to the same time period as Revelation 20? Satan's binding and loosing are a major part of Revelation 20.

 

[Douggg]

What is described in Zechariah 14 does not match what is described in Revelation 20. Why would Zechariah make no mention of Satan's binding or Satan's little season if it relates directly to the same time period as Revelation 20? Satan's binding and loosing are a major part of Revelation 20.

Revelation brings the prophecies made in other parts of the bible together so that a comprehensive understanding of how the prophecies in the other parts of bible will fit into the big picture.

Zechariah 14, on its own, is not all inclusive of the big picture.... but part of the big picture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Start Posting Your Claims"

A Millennial Kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years doesn't exist in scripture, it's a man made fabricated fairy tale

Revelation 20:1-6 Isn't A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Don't Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Read REv. 19 and see that the Lord returns to earth at the "battle of Armageddon" and defeats the antichrist, and ascends the mount of olives. All on earth as the promises of God in the OT declared.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation brings the prophecies made in other parts of the bible together so that a comprehensive understanding of how the prophecies in the other parts of bible will fit into the big picture.

Zechariah 14, on its own, is not all inclusive of the big picture.... but part of the big picture.

It has a lot of detail, so it's quite strange that it would say nothing about Satan at all if it has to do with the same thing as Revelation 20.

But, why do you not apply this same concept to other scripture like 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Matthew 24:29-31? You try to say that they that they don't relate because 1 Thess 4:14-17 makes no mention of the angels, but not all passages about events contain all of the same details, so that is not a valid argument.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Read REv. 19 and see that the Lord returns to earth at the "battle of Armageddon" and defeats the antichrist, and ascends the mount of olives. All on earth as the promises of God in the OT declared.

Where does Rev. 19 say anything about the Lord stepping foot on the earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

Wrong. The end of time looks like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As Scripture says in many places, Jesus returns after the 70th week of Daniel ends, fights the armies of the antichrist (not Satan).

The earthly kingdom is the material of much OT prophesy that must be fulfilled. Teh only thing the NT adds to these prophesies is how long the earthly kingdom Jesus reigns over lasts.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

Wrong. The end of time looks like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As Scripture says in many places, Jesus returns after the 70th week of Daniel ends, fights the armies of the antichrist (not Satan).

The earthly kingdom is the material of much OT prophesy that must be fulfilled. Teh only thing the NT adds to these prophesies is how long the earthly kingdom Jesus reigns over lasts.

Many just don't want to let go of their 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

Wrong. The end of time looks like this:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As Scripture says in many places, Jesus returns after the 70th week of Daniel ends, fights the armies of the antichrist (not Satan).

The earthly kingdom is the material of much OT prophesy that must be fulfilled. Teh only thing the NT adds to these prophesies is how long the earthly kingdom Jesus reigns over lasts.

Ron you claimed many examples of your earthly 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom exist's in the Old Testament, once again start posting your OT claims, (Book) (Chapter), and (Verse(s) referenced "Waiting"

 

[Truth7t7]

Read REv. 19 and see that the Lord returns to earth at the "battle of Armageddon" and defeats the antichrist, and ascends the mount of olives. All on earth as the promises of God in the OT declared.

Start posting your OT claims of a Millennial Kingdom on earth, please provide (Book) (Chapter), and (Verse(s) referenced "Waiting"

 

[Douggg]

But, why do you not apply this same concept to other scripture like 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 and Matthew 24:29-31? You try to say that they that they don't relate because 1 Thess 4:14-17 makes no mention of the angels, but not all passages about events contain all of the same details, so that is not a valid argument.

The resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:14-18 corresponds also to 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

Matthew: 24:31, the gathering of the elect, is not the resurrection/rapture because it matches with Deuteronomy 30:3-6 and Ezekiel 39:27-29, the final gathering of the Jews to the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 39 is a critical chapter in the bible to understanding the timeframes that lead up to Jesus's Second Coming. Jesus Himself is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:14-18 corresponds also to 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

Right, which means that it corresponds to 1 Thess 5:2-3 since the wrath 1 Thess 5:9 refers to that believers are not appointed to is described in 1 Thess 5:2-3.

Matthew: 24:31, the gathering of the elect, is not the resurrection/rapture because it matches with Deuteronomy 30:3-6 and Ezekiel 39:27-29, the final gathering of the Jews to the land of Israel.

No, we, the church, are the elect, so we are the ones who the angels will gather. Read the New Testament.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Who are the elect in this passage, the Jews or the church? It should be obvious that the elect are the church.

 

[Marilyn C]

There is a lot of detail in Zechariah 14, but nothing about Satan's little season? Why not?

Why would you believe in future animal sacrifices when Jesus made animal sacrifices obsolete by His "once for all sacrifice" (Hebrews 10:1-14)? What would be the purpose of these supposed future animal sacrifices and what scripture do you have to support that purpose?

Why does Zechariah have to have all the details. Each prophet has some.

The old sacrifices were only a symbol and could never make the nation or person holy. So, in the millennium the sacrifices are a teaching tool. (Ez. 44: 23 & 24)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why does Zechariah have to have all the details. Each prophet has some.

Yes, but Zechariah 14 has a lot of detail. Yet, nothing about Satan even though Satan's binding and loosing is a major part of Revelation 20? Why would that be?

The old sacrifices were only a symbol and could never make the nation or person holy. So, in the millennium the sacrifices are a teaching tool. (Ez. 44: 23 & 24)

You need to look more closely at scripture.

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Where does this mention anything about animal sacrifices being a teaching tool? It doesn't. Here is where it describes the purpose of the sacrifices...

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord God. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Why would future sacrifices be performed to make reconciliation for the house of Israel when the sacrifice of Christ has already accomplished that?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, but Zechariah 14 has a lot of detail. Yet, nothing about Satan even though Satan's binding and loosing is a major part of Revelation 20? Why would that be?


You need to look more closely at scripture.

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Where does this mention anything about animal sacrifices being a teaching tool? It doesn't. Here is where it describes the purpose of the sacrifices...

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord God. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Why would future sacrifices be performed to make reconciliation for the house of Israel when the sacrifice of Christ has already accomplished that?

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Why doesn`t the other prophets give all detail too?

The teaching would be about the sacrifices. And the sacrifices `to make reconciliation for the house of Israel` is the same as when Israel had to do them before Christ died. It is always God looking to Jesus` sacrifice. Israel still had to learn the cost of their sin that it involved a blood sacrifice which represented the true sacrifice of Jesus.

The Israelites are not Christians but earthly people in a nation where they as a nation need forgiveness. We, as believers in the Body of Christ are not earthly but a heavenly people and thus we do not need the sacrifices of the earth to be a representation of the true sacrifice.

 

[Douggg]

Right, which means that it corresponds to 1 Thess 5:2-3 since the wrath 1 Thess 5:9 refers to that believers are not appointed to is described in 1 Thess 5:2-3.

Agreed. The world will be saying peace and safety of a false messianic age, thinking the Antichrist person is Israel's messiah figure. It will be right after the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39.

But that mindset of thinking peace and safety will change when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, and claims to have achieved God-hood, the 2Thessalonians2:4 act. Revealing himself to be the man of sin and not Israel's messiah after all, as the Jews will have first thought.

That act will take place around the 3 year mark into the 7 year 70th week.

So what we can conclude is that the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians5:9-11 must take place sometime before the Antichrist person commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act which triggers the beginning of the day of the Lord when God's wrath will be poured out.

The resurrection/rapture could happen any time between right this very second and when the Antichrist commits the act. btw, that act is referred to in Daniel 8:13 as the transgression of desolation.

 

[Douggg]

No, we, the church, are the elect, so we are the ones who the angels will gather. Read the New Testament.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Who are the elect in this passage, the Jews or the church? It should be obvious that the elect are the church.

In that particular verse, "elect" is referring to Christians, whether Jew or Gentile.

Take a look at this verse....

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

.... who is the elect in that verse ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why doesn`t the other prophets give all detail too?

You are not paying attention to my point. I'm not saying that Zechariah 14 should have all detail. But, it does have a lot of detail, so why no mention of Satan at all when the binding and loosing of Satan is a major part of Revelation 20?

The teaching would be about the sacrifices.

Where are you seeing that?

And the sacrifices `to make reconciliation for the house of Israel` is the same as when Israel had to do them before Christ died.

The purpose of those were to foreshadow His sacrifice. What purpose would sacrifices for future reconciliation serve when Jesus has already made reconciliation for the sins of Israel and the whole world long ago with His "once for all" sacrifice?

It is always God looking to Jesus` sacrifice. Israel still had to learn the cost of their sin that it involved a blood sacrifice which represented the true sacrifice of Jesus.

Where is this taught in scripture? You seem to be making things up.

The Israelites are not Christians but earthly people in a nation where they as a nation need forgiveness.

Some are Christians. What do you mean "they as a nation need forgiveness"? Forgiveness of sins is an individual thing.

We, as believers in the Body of Christ are not earthly but a heavenly people and thus we do not need the sacrifices of the earth to be a representation of the true sacrifice.

Where does it say that anyone needs that in the future?