What did Jesus die to save us from?

[Behold]

Do you believe that God will punish me with the blazing fury of His anger and wrath for such a transgression?

You're on a Christian forum preaching a "doctrine of devils".....that is ""Universalism."""
So, if there is anything more satanic then a person who defines themselves as a "christion", and their Gospel denies Hell and leads unbelievers into it,... then im not aware of it.
So, the reason you do this, and enjoy it, is because you have not yet been caused to stop.

You are in this situation, explained by this verse.... and you dont realize it, but i do.

Read this carefully.. @St. SteVen and you can mock it now, or "report me"....but you can't stop it from happening, nor can a Mod.

Its coming as "God is not mocked".
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When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.

New Living Translation
When a crime is not punished quickly, people feel it is safe to do wrong.

English Standard Version
Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.

Berean Standard Bible
When the sentence for a crime is not speedily executed, the hearts of men become fully set on doing evil.

King James Bible
Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

New King James Version
Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

New American Standard Bible
Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of mankind among them are fully given to do evil.

NASB 1995
Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

NASB 1977
Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

Amplified Bible
Because the sentence against an evil act is not executed quickly, the hearts of the sons of men are fully set to do evil.

 

[St. SteVen]

Was Paul wrong then in Romans 9???

God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

What translation is that?
I can't find one that omits the "What if" at the beginning of verse 22. ???
Perhaps YOU omitted it? (changes the whole meaning)

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes.
Fear was the appropriate word.
But fear of what or whom?

I imagine people were avoiding Peter after that.
And the lost were avoiding the church.
Not an attractive feature that people are dropping dead.
I wouldn't put it on the Facebook page.

[

Exactly - modern churches usuually have a great shop window to attract the world. This was not God's way.

 

[St. SteVen]

Exactly - modern churches usuually have a great shop window to attract the world. This was not God's way.

What was the attraction? The fear of God? (extortion)

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Again, seems like a poor word choice.

In the Nehemiah verse, God is "terrible" because
He "keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:" ???
What's terrible about that?

In Psalm 47:2 God is "terrible" because He is "a great King over all the earth." ???
What's terrible about that?

In Psalm 99:3 God is "terrible" because His name "is holy." ???
What's terrible about that?

[

1. The word was that - not because.
2. Again not because.
3. Holiness - maybe you could reflect on the silence in heaven for half an hour... Rev 8:1

 

[Carl Emerson]

Perhaps what is wrong is your understanding of it.

The NIV makes verse 22 a "what if" question.
And verse 23 shows the outcome as "objects of his mercy".
(whom he prepared in advance for glory)

Romans 9:22-24 NIV
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

[

Paul makes it clear it was not a 'what if' in verse 23 - the NIV alone is not firm ground to stand on.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What translation is that?
I can't find one that omits the "What if" at the beginning of verse 22. ???
Perhaps YOU omitted it? (changes the whole meaning)

[

You changed the meaning by omitting 23

 

[Carl Emerson]

Do you believe that God will punish me with the blazing fury of His anger and wrath for such a transgression?

[

Did God condemn Peter for denying Him ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Should I leave room for God to be hard-hearted in Word and action?

[

You should leave room for Him to deal with wickedness appropriately as He did with Ananias. (that was pretty terrible)

 

[St. SteVen]

Paul makes it clear it was not a 'what if' in verse 23 - the NIV alone is not firm ground to stand on.

I couldn't find any translation of Romans 9:22 that didn't include the "What if".
It appears that you intentionally omitted it. ??? (changes the meaning)

[

 

[St. SteVen]

You changed the meaning by omitting 23

The interlinear Greek only allows one verse at a time.
My point was to show that the "What if" was in the original Greek. (for verse 22)
Why did you omit it?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

You should leave room for Him to deal with wickedness appropriately as He did with Ananias. (that was pretty terrible)

Where is Ananias now?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Did God condemn Peter for denying Him ?

What if you are wrong about God's character?

Would you be upset if someone viewed you as unhinged tyrant?

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

15 As for man, his days are like grass;
he flourishes like a flower of the field;
16 for the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
and its place knows it no more.
17 But the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him,
and his righteousness to children's children,
18 to those who keep his covenant
and remember to do his commandments.
19 The Lord has established his throne in the heavens,
and his kingdom rules over all.

From Ps 103

the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him (it is conditional.)

If you thumb your nose at God there are consequences...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Where is Ananias now?

[

Long dead.

 

[St. SteVen]

If you thumb your nose at God there are consequences...

Any nose-thumbing is directed at those who created (and support) the tyrant god of the church.
And the extortion by fear that comes with it. Believe or burn.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Long dead.

Was Ananias a believer?

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

The interlinear Greek only allows one verse at a time.
My point was to show that the "What if" was in the original Greek. (for verse 22)
Why did you omit it?

[

Because Paul omits the option - he was simply referring to common argument and refutes it in V23

 

[Carl Emerson]

Was Ananias a believer?

[

Unlikely is my guess.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Any nose-thumbing is directed at those who created (and support) the tyrant god of the church.
And the extortion by fear that comes with it. Believe or burn.

[

So you don't fellowship ?