IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[rebuilder 454]

You keep yelling “thank you Jesus!” while quoting Scofield.

You say “the righteous are removed in every case” — but what Bible are you reading?

Because mine says:

Noah wasn’t raptured. He remained while the wicked were swept away.

“The flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matt 24:39
The wicked were “taken.” Noah was left behind — on Earth.

Lot wasn’t raptured either. He fled — by foot — and barely escaped as fire fell.
That’s not a “type of the rapture.” That’s a type of God preserving the righteous through judgment, not removing them from the planet.

The five wise virgins? They weren’t removed pre-trib. The foolish were shut out — and the wise were taken into the wedding after the delay.

Jesus literally says:
“The bridegroom was delayed… but at midnight, a cry was heard… and those who were ready went in.” — Matt 25:5–10
So the righteous endure the delay, then are gathered at the end.

You keep throwing around words like “firstfruits” and “two brides” — but none of that is in Scripture. There’s one bride (Ephesians 5:25–27). There’s one body (Romans 12:5). And there's one gathering at the end — not two, not three, not a Scofield sci-fi trilogy.

Your “Gentile bride vs. Jewish bride” fantasy? Total fiction. The New Covenant doesn’t divide — it unites:

“He has made both one, and has broken down the dividing wall... making in Himself one new man from the two.” — Ephesians 2:14–15
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28

You’re not rightly dividing the Word.
You’re violently slicing it into dispensationalist pieces to preserve a fantasy where God saves the Church with a teleport gun and then gives Israel a second chance via torture.

As for Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 —
neither one mentions a rapture.
Not a resurrection.
Not clouds.
Not a trumpet.
Not a return.
Not even the word “tribulation.”

“Kept from” doesn’t mean removed from the Earth.
It means preserved through — just like Noah, just like Lot, just like the saints in Revelation 12:

“The woman fled into the wilderness… and was nourished there for 1,260 days.”

You keep insisting “nobody escapes the mark,”
but Revelation shows countless saints refusing it and dying with victory:

“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony… they did not worship the beast or receive his mark.” — Revelation 20:4 “Here is the patience of the saints.” — Revelation 14:12

The tribulation is not an escape story.
It’s a war — and Jesus wins through the blood of overcomers, not the vanishing act of cowards.

So no — we’re not the ones torturing the text.
We’re just reading it without Scofield’s fingerprints all over it.

You want a real escape?

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.”
That’s the only one Jesus promises.

And brother, at the rate you’re going —
you’re not escaping anything.

You keep yelling “thank you Jesus!” while quoting Scofield.

You say “the righteous are removed in every case” — but what Bible are you reading?

Because mine says:

Noah wasn’t raptured. He remained while the wicked were swept away.

“The flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matt 24:39
The wicked were “taken.” Noah was left behind — on Earth.

Lot wasn’t raptured either. He fled — by foot — and barely escaped as fire fell.
That’s not a “type of the rapture.” That’s a type of God preserving the righteous through judgment, not removing them from the planet.

The five wise virgins? They weren’t removed pre-trib. The foolish were shut out — and the wise were taken into the wedding after the delay.

Jesus literally says:
“The bridegroom was delayed… but at midnight, a cry was heard… and those who were ready went in.” — Matt 25:5–10
So the righteous endure the delay, then are gathered at the end.

You keep throwing around words like “firstfruits” and “two brides” — but none of that is in Scripture. There’s one bride (Ephesians 5:25–27). There’s one body (Romans 12:5). And there's one gathering at the end — not two, not three, not a Scofield sci-fi trilogy.

Your “Gentile bride vs. Jewish bride” fantasy? Total fiction. The New Covenant doesn’t divide — it unites:

“He has made both one, and has broken down the dividing wall... making in Himself one new man from the two.” — Ephesians 2:14–15
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28

You’re not rightly dividing the Word.
You’re violently slicing it into dispensationalist pieces to preserve a fantasy where God saves the Church with a teleport gun and then gives Israel a second chance via torture.

As for Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 —
neither one mentions a rapture.
Not a resurrection.
Not clouds.
Not a trumpet.
Not a return.
Not even the word “tribulation.”

“Kept from” doesn’t mean removed from the Earth.
It means preserved through — just like Noah, just like Lot, just like the saints in Revelation 12:

“The woman fled into the wilderness… and was nourished there for 1,260 days.”

You keep insisting “nobody escapes the mark,”
but Revelation shows countless saints refusing it and dying with victory:

“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony… they did not worship the beast or receive his mark.” — Revelation 20:4 “Here is the patience of the saints.” — Revelation 14:12

The tribulation is not an escape story.
It’s a war — and Jesus wins through the blood of overcomers, not the vanishing act of cowards.

So no — we’re not the ones torturing the text.
We’re just reading it without Scofield’s fingerprints all over it.

You want a real escape?

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.”
That’s the only one Jesus promises.

And brother, at the rate you’re going —
you’re not escaping anything.

QUOTE:
"You keep insisting “nobody escapes the mark,”
but Revelation shows countless saints refusing it and dying with victory:"

You do realize you made a point that all not saved recieve the mark?
You seem to now admit nobody escapes martyrdom.

The bible is not written by Scofield as you seem to believe.

Men have told you that.

The bible is not evil.
Stop insisting it is.
Only postribbers are obsessed with Scofield.
I never heard of him until I ran into those postribbers obsessed with it.
Scofield lives rent free in your mind.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So let’s get this straight — you just said Paul doesn’t define who the Israel of God is, and then in the same breath you admitted he does say:

“As many as walk according to this rule… peace be on them, and upon the Israel of God.”
— Galatians 6:16

Let’s break that down for the misled and the Scofielded:

Who is Paul talking to?
Gentile believers in Galatia — people who are not ethnic Jews.

What “rule” is he referring to?
The very rule you just quoted:

“In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.”
— Galatians 6:15

Translation:
The old identity markers — Jew or Gentile — no longer matter.
The only thing that matters now is being born again — made new in Christ.

And what does Paul call that group of “new creations” in the very next verse?

“The Israel of God.”

So yes — Paul does define who the Israel of God is.
It’s not based on ethnicity.
It’s not based on geography.
It’s not based on bloodline.
It’s based on being in Christ.

You say, “Why would Paul call Gentiles Israel?”
Because in Christ, we’re no longer Gentiles.
We’re the children of promise — the true heirs.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

Paul’s entire argument is that faith, not flesh, defines the covenant people of God.
And he ends his letter by blessing those walking in that truth — calling them the Israel of God.

That’s not vague.
That’s not unclear.
That’s gospel truth.
You just can’t see it — because Scofield told you not to.

So the book of romans was invented by scofield.????

Scofield is a legend in your mind

 

[rebuilder 454]

You keep yelling “thank you Jesus!” while quoting Scofield.

You say “the righteous are removed in every case” — but what Bible are you reading?

Because mine says:

Noah wasn’t raptured. He remained while the wicked were swept away.

“The flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matt 24:39
The wicked were “taken.” Noah was left behind — on Earth.

Lot wasn’t raptured either. He fled — by foot — and barely escaped as fire fell.
That’s not a “type of the rapture.” That’s a type of God preserving the righteous through judgment, not removing them from the planet.

The five wise virgins? They weren’t removed pre-trib. The foolish were shut out — and the wise were taken into the wedding after the delay.

Jesus literally says:
“The bridegroom was delayed… but at midnight, a cry was heard… and those who were ready went in.” — Matt 25:5–10
So the righteous endure the delay, then are gathered at the end.

You keep throwing around words like “firstfruits” and “two brides” — but none of that is in Scripture. There’s one bride (Ephesians 5:25–27). There’s one body (Romans 12:5). And there's one gathering at the end — not two, not three, not a Scofield sci-fi trilogy.

Your “Gentile bride vs. Jewish bride” fantasy? Total fiction. The New Covenant doesn’t divide — it unites:

“He has made both one, and has broken down the dividing wall... making in Himself one new man from the two.” — Ephesians 2:14–15
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28

You’re not rightly dividing the Word.
You’re violently slicing it into dispensationalist pieces to preserve a fantasy where God saves the Church with a teleport gun and then gives Israel a second chance via torture.

As for Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 —
neither one mentions a rapture.
Not a resurrection.
Not clouds.
Not a trumpet.
Not a return.
Not even the word “tribulation.”

“Kept from” doesn’t mean removed from the Earth.
It means preserved through — just like Noah, just like Lot, just like the saints in Revelation 12:

“The woman fled into the wilderness… and was nourished there for 1,260 days.”

You keep insisting “nobody escapes the mark,”
but Revelation shows countless saints refusing it and dying with victory:

“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony… they did not worship the beast or receive his mark.” — Revelation 20:4 “Here is the patience of the saints.” — Revelation 14:12

The tribulation is not an escape story.
It’s a war — and Jesus wins through the blood of overcomers, not the vanishing act of cowards.

So no — we’re not the ones torturing the text.
We’re just reading it without Scofield’s fingerprints all over it.

You want a real escape?

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.”
That’s the only one Jesus promises.

And brother, at the rate you’re going —
you’re not escaping anything.

Let me help you.
Noah WAS GATHERED into the ark days before the flood...FACT
Lot was gathered and REMOVED BEFORE ANY DESTRUCTION...FACT
DURING the flood ( tribulation) Noah was TAKEN high above the earth in the ark ("ark" is a type oh heaven).....FACT
Both Noah and Lot WERE TAKEN in the setting of normal life and commerce, and everyday activities ( opposite of what you are taught)...FACT
Noah RETURNED postrib BACK TO EARTH POSTRIB ( yep your doctrine has Noah and Lot staying.....ridiculous) FACT.

Thanks for pointing Noah and Lot out .
Once your omissions are back on the table we see your doctrine of ancient dead men was flawed from the start.

So now you know the truth of Noah and Lot being both pretrib rapture examples.

You are clearly proving your doctrine is one of omission and reframing.

Interesting how Noah flawlessly portrays not only the church in heaven during the trib , but also THE RETURN TO EARHT FROM HEAVEN!!!!!
What a beautiful picture of the pretrib rapture to heaven depicted in Noah being in heaven during the flood,and then RETURNING to earth for a new beginning .

What beauty in truth.

I know....postribs hate all those facts.

 

[Doug]

The New Covenant is Christ Himself —

[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
The new covenant will be made with the house of Israel and Judah........Jesus fulfills the covenant but its not correct to say he is the covenant......a covenant is made but is not a person

 

[Doug]

The New Covenant is NOT about land, ethnicity, or national borders.
It’s NOT about restarting Old Testament rituals

[Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Ezekiel 36 is the new covenant and is about the land

Ezekiel 44-46 describes the sacrifices that will resume
Ezekiel is not symbolic ............the temple is measured in Ezekiel 40......symbols are not tangible nor can be measured....this is a physical temple with physical priests and sacrifices

 

[rebuilder 454]

[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
The new covenant will be made with the house of Israel and Judah........Jesus fulfills the covenant but its not correct to say he is the covenant......a covenant is made but is not a person

Both covenants require innocent blood.
All of the Old Testament saints were saved via innocent blood.
The reason they could not enter heaven. It's because the price that Jesus paid had not been paid yet, so they were saved but not redeemed.
But Christ Jesus is the redeemer and in romans we see the Jew will be grafted back in through Jesus.
So the replacement theology that's bouncing around in this forum, is a doctrine of complete and total misunderstanding of heaven, God, and his people.

 

[rebuilder 454]

[Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Ezekiel 36 is the new covenant and is about the land

Ezekiel 44-46 describes the sacrifices that will resume
Ezekiel is not symbolic ............the temple is measured in Ezekiel 40......symbols are not tangible nor can be measured....this is a physical temple with physical priests and sacrifices

Yes
Covenant involves land.

 

[Doug]

— Is not for one nation, but for all who believe.

[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
It is indeed made with one nation, Israel

 

[Doug]

Only the Body of Christ inherits the Kingdom

The heavenly kingdom not the Davidic kingdom on earth promised Israel
[2Ti 4:18 KJV] 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The earthly kingdom was promised Israel and Jesus came to confirm their promises
[Rom 15:8 KJV] 8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:

 

[David in NJ]

The point is, is that if they all die, there's nobody going to the end of the tribulation.
So you're posting verses to that effect. Not knowing that it's destroying your doctrine of a post tribulation rapture.

The point is, is that if they all die,

No worry
JESUS says that HE will keep alive some Saints unto His Coming = Gospel/Matthew ch24 , 1st & 2nd Thessalonians , Revelation

 

[Doug]

Both covenants require innocent blood.

Not all covenants require blood but yes the old covenant did. In the new covenant God will forgive Israel's iniquity (Jeremiah 31:34) and to be just it requires blood (Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:22)

 

[Doug]

The reason they could not enter heaven. It's because the price that Jesus paid had not been paid yet, so they were saved but not redeemed.
But Christ Jesus is the redeemer and in romans we see the Jew will be grafted back in through Jesus.

Absolutely right

 

[Doug]

So the replacement theology that's bouncing around in this forum, is a doctrine of complete and total misunderstanding of heaven, God, and his people.

Yes .......whether they know it or not, saying we are spiritual Israel negates God saying in Romans that he has not cast away his people Israel (Romans 11:1-2)

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You guys keep yelling “It’s biblical!” — but all I see is Scofield cosplay and Zionist Mad Libs. It’s wild how you shout “Thank you Lord!” while twisting Scripture into a Left Behind screenplay. You claim the Church is Plan B, the Kingdom is postponed, and the Rothschild/U.N. manufactured False Israel™ is still the star — sounds like your Messiah needs a rewrite team.

You’re not rightly dividing the Word — you’re carving it up like it’s Thanksgiving turkey and Scofield’s the one holding the knife.

You said Noah was “taken” — as if being lifted in an ark means raptured to heaven?
That’s some Scofield gymnastics right there. Let’s actually read what Jesus said:
“The flood came and took them all away. So shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matthew 24:39

Who got taken?
The wicked.
Who remained?
Noah — righteous and planted on the Earth.
The same pattern holds in every judgment narrative — the righteous remain, the wicked are removed.
So if you want to be “taken” in that context… you might want to rethink your ticket.

Lot “removed before destruction”?
He was dragged out by angels, on foot, barely escaping judgment.
That’s not a secret sky-rendezvous. That’s God preserving His people through trial, not teleporting them to the Bahamas.
Lot’s story matches Revelation 12 — fleeing, protected, nourished in the wilderness for 1,260 days — not whisked to the clouds.

As for Noah being “high above the Earth,” and that representing heaven?
The ark didn’t float into the stratosphere — it landed on Mount Ararat.
He was still on the planet — just like the saints who endure to the end will be (Matthew 24:13).

This is the desperation of pre-trib thinking:
If a man gets in a boat, suddenly he’s in heaven.
If a woman lights a lamp, she’s a different bride.
And if a covenant includes land, it overrides the blood of Christ.

You say Ezekiel’s temple must be literal because it’s “measured”?
Revelation’s temple is measured too — and it’s filled with symbolic imagery (Revelation 11:1–2).
That argument collapses fast.
“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” — John 2:19
“But He was speaking of the temple of His body.” — John 2:21

You keep clinging to physical blueprints.
But Jesus is the true Temple (Revelation 21:22), and His Church is the dwelling place of God (Ephesians 2:21–22).
We’re not going back to Levitical sacrifices and temple floors soaked in animal blood.
That’s not restoration — that’s regression.
That’s not fulfillment — that’s spitting on the cross.

“How much worse punishment... for the one who has trampled the Son of God underfoot... and insulted the Spirit of grace?” — Hebrews 10:29

Going back to blood rituals after Calvary isn’t obedience.
It’s blasphemy.

As for “the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah” (Jeremiah 31:31)?
Correct — and guess what?

“Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ.” — Galatians 3:28

The New Covenant was promised to Israel — and it’s fulfilled in Christ.
But entrance is by faith, not flesh.
The dividing wall is gone (Ephesians 2:14).
There’s one body. One bride. One Israel of God (Galatians 6:16).

You say Jesus “isn’t the covenant”?
Actually — He is.
“I will give You as a covenant to the people.” — Isaiah 42:6
“This is My blood of the New Covenant.” — Matthew 26:28
“He is the mediator of a better covenant.” — Hebrews 8:6

Christ doesn’t just sign the covenant — He is the covenant.
The terms are sealed in His blood.
The benefits are given to those who are found in Him.

You want land? — He is the inheritance.
You want peace? — He is the Shalom.
You want a temple? — He is the cornerstone.

If Jesus isn’t your covenant —
then what you’re following isn’t even Christianity.
It’s a counterfeit gospel,
and it doesn’t lead to the Kingdom.
It leads straight into judgment.
You’ve been misled on a grand scale — and the time to repent is now.

Bottom line: your theology needs two brides, two thrones, two second comings, and two salvations.
But the Gospel of Christ has only one name under heaven by which we are saved — and it’s not “Zion.”
“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

No escape hatch.
No Left Behind sky Uber.
No Scofield afterparty.

Just one King.
One return.
One people — sanctified by the blood of the Lamb, not by DNA.

And what makes this whole Scofield saga even more absurd?
The people being exalted as “ethnic Jews” today aren’t even biblical Israelites.
They’re not from Judah.
They’re not from Abraham.
They’re not even Semitic in origin.

The vast majority descend from a medieval kingdom — Khazaria — that were force-converted to Judaism for political reasons in the 8th century at the tip of King Bulan's sword. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Biblical Israel or Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

So what you’re defending isn’t a covenant people.
It’s a geopolitical deception —
wrapped in Talmudic blasphemy, propped up by Zionist propaganda, and force-fed to the Evangelical Church through Scofield’s poisoned pen and generations of theological cowardice.

But here’s where it goes from deception to absolute madness:

Even if they were real —
if they could trace their bloodline straight to Abraham’s sandals —
they’d still be cut off from the covenant without Christ.
Because according to the Gospel,
no one enters the Kingdom by ancestry — only by the blood of the Lamb.

But they’re not “Biblical Jews.”
They’re not from Judah,
not from Abraham,
not even Semitic.
Their Khazar ancestors couldn’t have found Israel on a map in the 8th century — even if the entire map was labeled “Israel.”
And yet you defend this lie — this fraud — as if Christ didn’t already fulfill everything they rejected.

The irony?

The same folks waving the Israeli flag while shouting “Thank you, Jesus!”
…are doing it to support a people who deny the Son, reject the Gospel,
and mock the very covenant you claim to believe in.

That’s not discernment.
That’s not loyalty.
That’s betrayal.

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either.” — 1 John 2:23

You’re not blessing Israel.
You’re standing in open rebellion against the One they crucified.

That’s not faith.
That’s delusion.
And if you won’t repent of it —
then you’ve made yourself an enemy of the cross.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Maybe this copy/paste will help you wake up from your delusion..

"What the Catholics Get Right

Salvation Plan: One covenant, fulfilled in Christ — not two tracks for Jew and Gentile

Rapture: Rejected; Christ returns once, publicly, at the end of the age — not in secret phases. This was the belief of the early Church Fathers.

Israel: Fulfilled in the Church. There is no separate, ongoing plan for ethnic Israel apart from the Gospel.
If someone calls themselves a Jew but rejects Jesus as the Messiah, they are outside the covenant of salvation — just like anyone else who refuses Him. Catholic teaching, like Scripture, is clear: no one is saved apart from Christ.

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age


Where the Catholic Church Goes Off the Rails

Vatican Power Structure: Corrupted hierarchy; functions more like a political empire than a spiritual body

Idolatry and Ritualism: Veneration of saints and Mary can cross into worship territory

Works-Based Legalism: Overemphasis on sacraments and tradition as necessary for salvation

Mystery Religion Symbols: Pagan architecture, serpent imagery, and globalist interfaith compromises

Scripture Access: Historically limited lay access to the Bible; elevated papal authority above scripture


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Right

Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the final and highest authority, not popes or church councils

Born Again Doctrine: Emphasis on personal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

Evangelism: Urgent focus on spreading the Gospel to all nations

Rejection of Ritualism: Values relationship with Christ over empty tradition

Role of the Holy Spirit: Acknowledges the active presence and power of the Holy Spirit in believers


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Horribly Wrong (Thanks to Scofield Heresy)

Two Plans of Salvation: Claims Jews have a separate covenant path — undermines the sufficiency of Christ

Pre-Trib Rapture: Teaches an unbiblical two-phase return of Jesus based on cherry-picked verses

Political Zionism as “God’s Will”: Confuses modern secular Israel with the true, biblical people of God — even though the nation as a whole rejects Jesus Christ. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

Church as Parenthesis: Treats the Church Age as an interruption instead of the fulfillment of prophecy

Artificial Bible Division: Uses Scofield’s man-made footnotes to override clear New Testament teaching


The Bottom Line:

The Catholic Church preserved covenant theology and rejected the blasphemous, Scofield circus — but compromised it with institutional corruption, idolatry, and works-based tradition.

The Evangelical world rediscovered Scripture and the born-again life — but got seduced by Scofield’s dual-covenant, Zionist distortion that fractures the Gospel.

Both systems need to be reformed by the authority of Christ and the clarity of His Word.

To the lost Dispensationalists, I'll leave you with this...

The true Israel is the Body of Christ — one people, one covenant, one King. If you're a so-called "Christian" and you don't know that; you're beyond misled.

You’re not just lost — you’re way out in the wilderness of Nod, stumbling through darkness and delusion.
There’s a veil over your eyes and a bewitching on your soul —
and honestly, it might be the most biblical level of deception the modern Church has ever witnessed.
Jesus and the Apostles are looking down from heaven — eyebrows raised, faces in their hands — stunned at how far off the path you’ve wandered.

“But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Covenant, because the veil is taken away in Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 3:14

You’re clinging to the shadows of a covenant that was fulfilled 2,000 years ago —
propping up a U.N.-sanctioned, Rothschild-created political state,
as if salvation lives in dirt and barbed wire - totally ignorant to the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel.
Paul saw it coming. He warned us.
The veil still lies over your heart because you refuse to turn fully to Christ.
You’re not reading prophecy — you’re reading it wrong.
And until you stop exalting the letter over the Lord,
you’ll stay exactly where you are:
veiled, bewitched, and wandering east of Eden."

 

[Doug]

You claim the Church is Plan B,

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The church is not plan B ....we were chosen to be in Christ before the world

 

[Doug]

the Kingdom is postponed,

There is no kingdom on earth now......it was postponed by the dispensation of grace

 

[Doug]

you’re carving it up like it’s Thanksgiving turkey and Scofield’s the one holding the knife.

HaHa good one

 

[rebuilder 454]

You guys keep yelling “It’s biblical!” — but all I see is Scofield cosplay and Zionist Mad Libs. It’s wild how you shout “Thank you Lord!” while twisting Scripture into a Left Behind screenplay. You claim the Church is Plan B, the Kingdom is postponed, and the Rothschild/U.N. manufactured False Israel™ is still the star — sounds like your Messiah needs a rewrite team.

You’re not rightly dividing the Word — you’re carving it up like it’s Thanksgiving turkey and Scofield’s the one holding the knife.

You said Noah was “taken” — as if being lifted in an ark means raptured to heaven?
That’s some Scofield gymnastics right there. Let’s actually read what Jesus said:
“The flood came and took them all away. So shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matthew 24:39

Who got taken?
The wicked.
Who remained?
Noah — righteous and planted on the Earth.
The same pattern holds in every judgment narrative — the righteous remain, the wicked are removed.
So if you want to be “taken” in that context… you might want to rethink your ticket.

Lot “removed before destruction”?
He was dragged out by angels, on foot, barely escaping judgment.
That’s not a secret sky-rendezvous. That’s God preserving His people through trial, not teleporting them to the Bahamas.
Lot’s story matches Revelation 12 — fleeing, protected, nourished in the wilderness for 1,260 days — not whisked to the clouds.

As for Noah being “high above the Earth,” and that representing heaven?
The ark didn’t float into the stratosphere — it landed on Mount Ararat.
He was still on the planet — just like the saints who endure to the end will be (Matthew 24:13).

This is the desperation of pre-trib thinking:
If a man gets in a boat, suddenly he’s in heaven.
If a woman lights a lamp, she’s a different bride.
And if a covenant includes land, it overrides the blood of Christ.

You say Ezekiel’s temple must be literal because it’s “measured”?
Revelation’s temple is measured too — and it’s filled with symbolic imagery (Revelation 11:1–2).
That argument collapses fast.
“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” — John 2:19
“But He was speaking of the temple of His body.” — John 2:21

You keep clinging to physical blueprints.
But Jesus is the true Temple (Revelation 21:22), and His Church is the dwelling place of God (Ephesians 2:21–22).
We’re not going back to Levitical sacrifices and temple floors soaked in animal blood.
That’s not restoration — that’s regression.
That’s not fulfillment — that’s spitting on the cross.

“How much worse punishment... for the one who has trampled the Son of God underfoot... and insulted the Spirit of grace?” — Hebrews 10:29

Going back to blood rituals after Calvary isn’t obedience.
It’s blasphemy.

As for “the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah” (Jeremiah 31:31)?
Correct — and guess what?

“Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ.” — Galatians 3:28

The New Covenant was promised to Israel — and it’s fulfilled in Christ.
But entrance is by faith, not flesh.
The dividing wall is gone (Ephesians 2:14).
There’s one body. One bride. One Israel of God (Galatians 6:16).

You say Jesus “isn’t the covenant”?
Actually — He is.
“I will give You as a covenant to the people.” — Isaiah 42:6
“This is My blood of the New Covenant.” — Matthew 26:28
“He is the mediator of a better covenant.” — Hebrews 8:6

Christ doesn’t just sign the covenant — He is the covenant.
The terms are sealed in His blood.
The benefits are given to those who are found in Him.

You want land? — He is the inheritance.
You want peace? — He is the Shalom.
You want a temple? — He is the cornerstone.

If Jesus isn’t your covenant —
then what you’re following isn’t even Christianity.
It’s a counterfeit gospel,
and it doesn’t lead to the Kingdom.
It leads straight into judgment.
You’ve been misled on a grand scale — and the time to repent is now.

Bottom line: your theology needs two brides, two thrones, two second comings, and two salvations.
But the Gospel of Christ has only one name under heaven by which we are saved — and it’s not “Zion.”
“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

No escape hatch.
No Left Behind sky Uber.
No Scofield afterparty.

Just one King.
One return.
One people — sanctified by the blood of the Lamb, not by DNA.

And what makes this whole Scofield saga even more absurd?
The people being exalted as “ethnic Jews” today aren’t even biblical Israelites.
They’re not from Judah.
They’re not from Abraham.
They’re not even Semitic in origin.

The vast majority descend from a medieval kingdom — Khazaria — that were force-converted to Judaism for political reasons in the 8th century at the tip of King Bulan's sword. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Biblical Israel or Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

So what you’re defending isn’t a covenant people.
It’s a geopolitical deception —
wrapped in Talmudic blasphemy, propped up by Zionist propaganda, and force-fed to the Evangelical Church through Scofield’s poisoned pen and generations of theological cowardice.

But here’s where it goes from deception to absolute madness:

Even if they were real —
if they could trace their bloodline straight to Abraham’s sandals —
they’d still be cut off from the covenant without Christ.
Because according to the Gospel,
no one enters the Kingdom by ancestry — only by the blood of the Lamb.

But they’re not “Biblical Jews.”
They’re not from Judah,
not from Abraham,
not even Semitic.
Their Khazar ancestors couldn’t have found Israel on a map in the 8th century — even if the entire map was labeled “Israel.”
And yet you defend this lie — this fraud — as if Christ didn’t already fulfill everything they rejected.

The irony?

The same folks waving the Israeli flag while shouting “Thank you, Jesus!”
…are doing it to support a people who deny the Son, reject the Gospel,
and mock the very covenant you claim to believe in.

That’s not discernment.
That’s not loyalty.
That’s betrayal.

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either.” — 1 John 2:23

You’re not blessing Israel.
You’re standing in open rebellion against the One they crucified.

That’s not faith.
That’s delusion.
And if you won’t repent of it —
then you’ve made yourself an enemy of the cross.

At this point Scofield can't help you.
You are so immersed in Scofield, you have missed the bible.
Now you are calling the verses I point to as some Scofield devil.

Nobody cares about your Scofield obsession.

It is simply an alternate reality you draw like a gunslinger thinking it has traction.

It is 100% a nothingburger

 

[Behold]

You guys keep yelling “It’s biblical!”

Just think of it like this.

You have the "Apostle to the Gentiles", in the "time of the Gentiles'.

So, that is not the Old Testment, as God didnt deal with Gentiles in the OT.

But He's dealing with them now.......and has Paul as the "Apostle to the Gentiles'....."in the TIME of the Gentiles".

This "time", began with The Cross and will end.........and when it ends, the TRIB will start., as the "time of the Gentiles"" is not going into the Trib" as the TRIB is all about God dealing mostly with the JEW, once again., specifically.