Forgiveness

[Lambano]

Exactly my question! Jesus did not forgive those who did not confess or at least own their sin.

And I'm not sure that's always true.

3 Then a paralytic was brought to Him, carried by four men. 4 Since they were unable to get to Jesus through the crowd, they uncovered the roof above Him, made an opening, and lowered the paralytic on his mat. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Mark 2:3-5

In this particular vignette, Jesus takes the initiative to forgive sins based on faith; and not even the person's own faith, but his friends' trust.

 

[Pet]

The point I was trying to make in this thread was,
Forgiveness for people who tried to ruin your life is not easy.
Yet, we know we need to forgive.
Pretending, Blocking it, or simply saying it, doesn’t count.
The heart needs to be changed.
Only The Lord can change the heart.

People say, "you have to be willing", well I wasn't, yet The Lord gave me forgiveness anyway AND He took away the memories.

 

[Lambano]

The point I was trying to make in this thread was,
Forgiveness for people who tried to ruin your life is not easy.
Yet, we know we need to forgive.
Pretending, Blocking it, or simply saying it, doesn’t count.
The heart needs to be changed.
Only The Lord can change the heart.

People say, "you have to be willing", well I wasn't, yet The Lord gave me forgiveness anyway AND He took away the memories.

What do you do when you can't forgive and the healing doesn't come?

I've never had anyone hurt me like that, so I'm no one to preach. But I've seen others who carry the bitterness with them all their lives.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

And I'm not sure that's always true.

3 Then a paralytic was brought to Him, carried by four men. 4 Since they were unable to get to Jesus through the crowd, they uncovered the roof above Him, made an opening, and lowered the paralytic on his mat. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Mark 2:3-5

In this particular vignette, Jesus takes the initiative to forgive sins based on faith; and not even the person's own faith, but his friends' trust.

I believe the paralytic had faith. Which is why Jesus referred to him as Son.

Otherwise,the paralytic would not have agreed to be brought to Jesus. Much less let himself be lowered through a roof.

 

[TLHKAJ]

In 2016 though, I had a breakthrough. I had prayed, yet again, then concluded that it was impossible, and that The Lord actually understood! I was off the hook.
Then, at a gathering, i glanced over at one of them with the usual disgust, and saw, for the first time, something heart-rending. I saw that God absolutely loved them, and that they were broken.

The strangest thing was, I wasn't even in the equation. It was between them and The Lord, and their salvation was all that mattered, to God and me.

So, the forgiveness, for me, came in the form of compassion. It was forgiveness, and it was NOTHING of me.

Then I noticed that I had completely forgotten what they did! It was absolutely gone.
So, i know that we can forgive and forget.

What they meant for harm, The Lord meant for good...

This sounds a lot like how God worked with me toward my father and some others. And yet, I didn't forget the things that happened .. but God took the sting and the pain. I can look back and rather than just seeing and feeling the pain, injury, sadness, contamination, etc ....I see God's love and grace, and the amazing truths He has spoken to my own heart. He has unraveled the lies that took hold in my heart as a result of those traumas and taken them away, replacing them with His truth.

 

[Pet]

What do you do when you can't forgive and the healing doesn't come?

I've never had anyone hurt me like that, so I'm no one to preach. But I've seen others who carry the bitterness with them all their lives.

For the person that i can't forgive, (for nearly 30 yrs), I've tried everything, but resorted to asking people to pray.
I refuse to pretend that I've forgiven them. I need clarification from The Lord, (like the last one).

 

[Pet]

This sounds a lot like how God worked with me toward my father and some others. And yet, I didn't forget the things that happened .. but God took the sting and the pain. I can look back and rather than just seeing and feeling the pain, injury, sadness, contamination, etc ....I see God's love and grace, and the amazing truths He has spoken to my own heart. He has unraveled the lies that took hold in my heart as a result of those traumas and taken them away, replacing them with His truth.

Your testimony is inspirational

 

[Nancy]

And I'm not sure that's always true.

3 Then a paralytic was brought to Him, carried by four men. 4 Since they were unable to get to Jesus through the crowd, they uncovered the roof above Him, made an opening, and lowered the paralytic on his mat. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Mark 2:3-5

In this particular vignette, Jesus takes the initiative to forgive sins based on faith; and not even the person's own faith, but his friends' trust.

Well, there is that...I hope my friends have a lot of faith! Lol. Thanks bro!
What of a family member who holds grudges or bears false witness about you and lies to you? Even so, this family member does not in general ever own up to her own issues but always points the finger. I don't remember her ever taking responsibility for her lot in life. She will slap the olive branch from your hand every time, it's so very difficult to continue to try this over and over to no adieu. All it does is bring back all the negative feelings and the reminders of what she has done hence, I get upset all over again. The bible says to get along with all men, as far as it is up to you...I feel I have done my part so many times but have to back off as it brings nothing but sadness AND anger! HATE those emotions and do not wish to continue in this vein.

 

[Windmill Charge]

What do you do when you can't forgive and the healing doesn't come?

I've never had anyone hurt me like that, so I'm no one to preach. But I've seen others who carry the bitterness with them all their lives.

Coming into this part way.

Forgiveness is always conditional upon repentance.

No repentance, no requirement for us to forgive.


Which leaves us with how do we handle our feelings etc. We copy Jesus, who on the cross did NOT forgive his crucified but rather prayed to his Father asking him to forgive them.

The whole O T teaches that repentance comes before forgiveness.
The devout Jew who sinned would go to the temple to offer a sacrifice for sin, he would lay his hand on its head as its throat was cut.
Two acts of repentance to gain symbolic forgiveness.
As it says, " If my people who are called by my name will humble themselfs ( repent ) and pray, then I will hear in heaven, forgive their sins and heal their land. "

The unrepentant offender we hand to God, praying about their offence, it's affect on yourself, and to pray for the offender.


We are to live peacefuly with everyone as far as it is in our power.
So abusive family members can be avoided etc.

 

[Behold]

And he brings them to Heaven when they die unredeemed.

If you are "unredeemed" then you are not forgiven........so, you are not born again.

So, this one wont be going to heaven, as to go to Heaven, you have to be "redeemed"....you have to be forgiven your sin, and you have to be born agaIn.

There are no Christians found in Hell.
And no unbelievers (unredeemed, unforgiven, not born again) wil be found in Heaven.

Read the Old Testament and get back to me on that part.

Christians are found in the Old Testament.
Get back to me when you understand why.. they are only found in the NT.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

If you are "unredeemed" then you are not forgiven........so, you are not born again.

He died for his enemies out of love. But if his enemies are unredeemed he lovingly sends them to Hell?

Christians are found in the Old Testament.
Get back to me when you understand why.. they are only found in the NT.

?

 

[Behold]

He died for his enemies out of love. But if his enemies are unredeemed he lovingly sends them to Hell?

Heaven and Hell are eternal destinations.

A person chooses one of them for their eternity, based on what they do with Jesus The Christ, while you are breathing.

So, when a person wont have Jesus.......wont believe.........then they are choosing to NOT go to Heaven after they die, because Jesus is the only WAY to Heaven. John 14:6
God has provided no other.

Its like this.
Simply.

Every person has sin.
We are all sinners.

Sin, separates us from God............and Jesus has died on the Cross.....to deal with all our sin, so that we can be restored to eternal relationship with HOLY God.

So, if a person dies, never forgiven their sin...... if they will not trust in Christ,.... then they chose to die separated from God, exactly as they were when they were alive.
So, HELL< is created as the place for that one., who chose to died unforgiven..........still separated from God by their UNFORGIVEN SIN.

They can't go to heaven, as there is no sin found there......so this unforgiven sinner, has chosen to go where unforgiven sinners go, after they die.
That is not God's fault.......as He has offered them His SON on THE CROSS for their sin, ALL THEIR LIVES........ and they said.....'NO"., and that "NO" is why they die and go to hell, every single day.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Heaven and Hell are eternal destinations.

A person chooses one of them for their eternity, based on what they do with Jesus The Christ, while you are breathing.

So, when a person wont have Jesus.......wont believe.........then they are choosing to NOT go to Heaven after they die, because Jesus is the only WAY to Heaven. John 14:6
God has provided no other.

Its like this.
Simply.

Every person has sin.
We are all sinners.

Sin, separates us from God............and Jesus has died on the Cross.....to deal with all our sin, so that we can be restored to eternal relationship with HOLY God.

So, if a person dies, never forgiven their sin...... if they will not trust in Christ,.... then they chose to die separated from God, exactly as they were when they were alive.
So, HELL< is created as the place for that one., who chose to died unforgiven..........still separated from God by their UNFORGIVEN SIN.

They can't go to heaven, as there is no sin found there......so this unforgiven sinner, has chosen to go where unforgiven sinners go, after they die.
That is not God's fault.......as He has offered them His SON on THE CROSS for their sin, ALL THEIR LIVES........ and they said.....'NO"., and that "NO" is why they die and go to hell, every single day.

God said the natural man cannot understand those things of God. Only if God's grace calls us to his grace and his Holy Spirit enters,then we can understand the things of God and enter his eternal irrevocable salvation.

We don't choose Hell.

 

[Behold]

God said the natural man cannot understand those things of God.

Yes.

"The natural man cannot receive" from the Spirit of God, because these things are "Spiritually Discerned".

This means that an unbeliever has no SPIRITUAL union with God, in the Spirit, ..........whereas a Christian who is born again spiritually as "one with God" can receive from God......= knowledge.
The bible is the main situation whereby its spiritual words, that are "spiritually discerned", cannot be understood by an unbeliever.

Only if God's grace calls us to his grace and his Holy Spirit enters,then we can understand the things of God and enter his eternal irrevocable salvation.

God is always calling unbelievers to His "Grace"., as God's Grace is The Cross of Christ.

= God's Grace, is The Cross of Christ, where an unbeliever and God can become eternal FAMILY.
God meets the believer at The Cross of Christ.........This is why John 14:6 says........."no person comes to the Father (God) except by ME".. Jesus said.

And that means......On The CROSS, you find forgiveness of all your sin........because Jesus is your Sacrifice for all your sin.

So, Jesus said.....>"if i be lifted up (on The Cross) I will DRAW ALL people to me".....

See that?
That means that Jesus is always calling ALL unbelievers to come and ""BELIEVE IN ME" for Salvation.

= Right Now.......= the Cross of Christ is calling this world full of sinners to "come to me, and receive forgiveness".. John 3:16
This is always happening......24/7.

We don't choose Hell.

Everyone who died and went to hell today CHOSE to not trust in Christ ........so when they do that, they are choosing to NOT GO TO HEAVEN, after you die....and there is only one other place availble for them.

 

[Matthias]

How do we love our enemies?

We are to love our enemies by treating them as we would have them treat us (whether they do or not).

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Yes.

"The natural man cannot receive" from the Spirit of God, because these things are "Spiritually Discerned".

This means that an unbeliever has no SPIRITUAL union with God, in the Spirit, ..........whereas a Christian who is born again spiritually as "one with God" can receive from God......= knowledge.
The bible is the main situation whereby its spiritual words, that are "spiritually discerned", cannot be understood by an unbeliever.



God is always calling unbelievers to His "Grace"., as God's Grace is The Cross of Christ.

= God's Grace, is The Cross of Christ, where an unbeliever and God can become eternal FAMILY.
God meets the believer at The Cross of Christ.........This is why John 14:6 says........."no person comes to the Father (God) except by ME".. Jesus said.

And that means......On The CROSS, you find forgiveness of all your sin........because Jesus is your Sacrifice for all your sin.

So, Jesus said.....>"if i be lifted up (on The Cross) I will DRAW ALL people to me".....

See that?
That means that Jesus is always calling ALL unbelievers to come and ""BELIEVE IN ME" for Salvation.

= Right Now.......= the Cross of Christ is calling this world full of sinners to "come to me, and receive forgiveness".. John 3:16
This is always happening......24/7.



Everyone who died and went to hell today CHOSE to not trust in Christ ........so when they do that, they are choosing to NOT GO TO HEAVEN, after you die....and there is only one other place availble for them.

Not scripture. Not when understood in their proper narrative.

No one is yet in Heaven or Hell.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Well, there is that...I hope my friends have a lot of faith! Lol. Thanks bro!
What of a family member who holds grudges or bears false witness about you and lies to you? Even so, this family member does not in general ever own up to her own issues but always points the finger. I don't remember her ever taking responsibility for her lot in life. She will slap the olive branch from your hand every time, it's so very difficult to continue to try this over and over to no adieu. All it does is bring back all the negative feelings and the reminders of what she has done hence, I get upset all over again. The bible says to get along with all men, as far as it is up to you...I feel I have done my part so many times but have to back off as it brings nothing but sadness AND anger! HATE those emotions and do not wish to continue in this vein.

Anger isn't a sin. What we do with our anger is what could take us into sin. I think you've done what you were required to do. In a situation like that, after trying to make peace and being rejected, I would leave the door open for reconciliation, but walk away and continue to pray for them. I have taken that route with some people in my life as well.

 

[Behold]

Not scripture.

Jesus said....."If i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will DRAW ALL people to me'..

"DRAW". = this is work of the Holy Spirit who is always Drawing unbelievers......the entire world of sinners.........to "come and believe in Jesus".

John 14:6
John 3:16

Not when understood in their proper narrative.

You are teaching Demonic Calvinism.....so, your "narrative" is His Cross Rejecting theology.

No one is yet in Heaven or Hell.

Jesus is in Heaven.

And every Christ rejector, never born again, who died in the last 30 seconds........is in Hell, and they now believe in Jesus, and they now believe in Hell.

The born again are "seated in heavenly places in Christ"......right now.

 

[lforrest]

We are told by Jesus, to forgive, as we are forgiven.
He also said that forgiveness is to be from the heart.

So, how do we forgive?

How do we love our enemies?

It's a problem, we know we need to forgive but we can't force our hearts to feel forgiveness. If you were to wait for your feelings to agree, you would be waiting forever.

But we should not be lead by our hearts, but by the Spirit of God. God gives us a heart of flesh to be amenable to the will of God. And his will is that we forgive others. So chose to forgive, and let the heart follow.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Jesus said....."If i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will DRAW ALL people to me'..

"DRAW". = this is work of the Holy Spirit who is always Drawing unbelievers......the entire world of sinners.........to "come and believe in Jesus".

John 14:6
John 3:16



You are teaching Demonic Calvinism.....so, your "narrative" is His Cross Rejecting theology.



Jesus is in Heaven.

And every Christ rejector, never born again, who died in the last 30 seconds........is in Hell, and they now believe in Jesus, and they now believe in Hell.

The born again are "seated in heavenly places in Christ"......right now.

Yes, no one comes to Jesus unless God calls them. Otherwise,natural man cannot understand the things of God.

As the passage says no one has ascended to Heaven but the one who came down from Heaven.