Babylon

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your opinion means nothing to me, and I'm sure others here feel the same.

And your opinion means less than nothing to me and I'm 100% certain that MANY others here feel the same. You are a laughingstock of the forum.

As I said, for over two hundred years Protestant scholars have interpreted them as prophetic also, with outstanding reasoning that thwarts your small thinking.

That's 200 years of ridiculous nonsense that you have fallen for. Scholars? LOL. You mean idiots who twist scripture beyond recognition.

See how dumb you sound: "They are not separated as if they are all mixed together..."

I can't possibly sound as dumb as you actually are.

According to grammar and the meaning of the word "separated," one has to be joined prior to being separated.

The two groups are joined side by side, but not yet placed on His right and left hand. Is this too hard for your tiny brain to grasp? Apparently so.

Your notions are outrageous, dumb.

Yours are beyond outrageous and dumb. There are no words to describe your notions because no one ever thought anyone could have such notions.

The only sound interpretation is that the sheep represent the nations, as distinct from the bride Jerusalem. After all they, the nations, have a place in the eternal kingdom, distinct from the bride/Jerusalem. Their kings bring their glory to the city,

Revelation 21
23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.
24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,

Furthermore, the bride is described as a nation, singular, and not in the plural,

1 Peter 2
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

LOL. You are trouncing yourself with your ridiculous interpretations that contradict the rest of scripture. The only way to keep your weak doctrine afloat is to invent an imaginary third group in Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

And your opinion means less than nothing to me and I'm 100% certain that MANY others here feel the same. You are a laughingstock of the forum.


That's 200 years of ridiculous nonsense that you have fallen for. Scholars? LOL. You mean idiots who twist scripture beyond recognition.

First, the futurists interpret the seven churches as prophetic too. So, there are more here that think you opinion isn’t worthy a plug nickel.

What is nonsense is thinking amill predates Premillennialism. As we both witnessed, the extant writing of the ante Nicene authors was Chiliasm. I'm still waiting for you to produce the writing of anyone at that time who wrote about amill. I’m waiting!!!!!!! And since Premillennialists rebuke the notion that the scriptures support such a notion, you have to produce one theologian that wrote about it prior to interference of the Roman beast putting their two cense into it, which you can’t.

I can't possibly sound as dumb as you actually are.


The two groups are joined side by side, but not yet placed on His right and left hand. Is this too hard for your tiny brain to grasp? Apparently so.


Yours are beyond outrageous and dumb. There are no words to describe your notions because no one ever thought anyone could have such notions.



LOL. You are trouncing yourself with your ridiculous interpretations that contradict the rest of scripture. The only way to keep your weak doctrine afloat is to invent an imaginary third group in Matthew 25:31-46.

If they are placed side by side, then one is already on the right and one is already on the left. Their already separated.

See how dumb you sound.

You simply don’t get is because you don’t read properly or grasp the definition, the meanings of words, let alone grammar.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

First, the futurists interpret the seven churches as prophetic too. So, there are more here that think you opinion isn’t worthy a plug nickel.

Is that supposed to mean anything to me? No matter how many people believe something that is false, it's still false.

What is nonsense is thinking amill predates Premillennialism. As we both witnessed, the extant writing of the ante Nicene authors was Chiliasm.

And, if you actually paid any attention to what the earliest Chiliasts (before Victorinus in 270 AD) believed, you would know that their overall view had just as much or more in common with Amill as it did with modern day Premill. Like Amills, they believed that there would be no sin and death after Christ returned. A number of them were skeptical about including the book of Revelation in canon because they believed Jesus would rid the world of sin and death when He returned like Amills do and the idea of Satan's little season following that did not make any sense to them which is why none of them wrote about Satan's little season until Victorinus around 270 AD.

I'm still waiting for you to produce the writing of anyone at that time who wrote about amill. I’m waiting!!!!!!!

LOL!!!! I'm still waiting for you or any other Premil to produce the writing of anyone before 270 AD who believed that sin and death would occur on the earth after Jesus returned. I'm waiting!!!!!!

And since Premillennialists rebuke the notion that the scriptures support such a notion, you have to produce one theologian that wrote about it prior to interference of the Roman beast putting their two cense into it, which you can’t.


If they are placed side by side, then one is already on the right and one is already on the left. Their already separated.

If two groups are standing next to each other right in front of the throne, neither group is at His right hand or left hand yet at that point. It's talking about separating them completely from each other with the sheep being off to one side and the goats to the other.

See how dumb you sound.

Not at all. But, again, I can't possibly sound as dumb as you actually are. It's not possible.

You simply don’t get is because you don’t read properly or grasp the definition, the meanings of words, let alone grammar.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

I have metaphorically trounced you six feet under, so you have no idea of what you're talking about.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Is that supposed to mean anything to me? No matter how many people believe something that is false, it's still false.


And, if you actually paid any attention to what the earliest Chiliasts (before Victorinus in 270 AD) believed, you would know that their overall view had just as much or more in common with Amill as it did with modern day Premill. Like Amills, they believed that there would be no sin and death after Christ returned. A number of them were skeptical about including the book of Revelation in canon because they believed Jesus would rid the world of sin and death when He returned like Amills do and the idea of Satan's little season following that did not make any sense to them which is why none of them wrote about Satan's little season until Victorinus around 270 AD.


LOL!!!! I'm still waiting for you or any other Premil to produce the writing of anyone before 270 AD who believed that sin and death would occur on the earth after Jesus returned. I'm waiting!!!!!!

So why do you think your opinions should matter to me, if mine doesn’t matter to you. Futurists and Historicists believe all the eschatological views of amills are false. Such arguments are futile, so why bring them up as you do? The point is that the seven churches have been accepted as prophetic by scholars for over two hundred years, without your approval.

Well, there you go. If the Chiliasts had accepted Revelation as cannon, which it certainly is, then sin and death are shown to persist amongst the nations, insomuch the Satan is released to gather a final rebellion in Revelation 20. As Chiliasts, they would have interpreted Revelation 20 as Premillennialists, not amills!

That’s why you had to bring up they were skeptical about including the book as cannon, because Revelation affirms that sin and death persists with the nations when Christ returns according to Revelation 20, as does the persistence of the nations in Matthew 25:32-33. There are also numerous passages in the OT that affirm this also.

The parable in Matthew 25 also affirms the sheep and goats represent the NATIONS, while 1 Peter 2:9 and Matthew 21:43 maintain the bride is a NATION.

And I still don’t see any citation from any amill before the Roman beast takes control of the Church. That’s because Premillennialism predates amill.

Furthermore, you amills have goats in Christ's kingdom, Premillennialism doesn't.

If two groups are standing next to each other right in front of the throne, neither group is at His right hand or left hand yet at that point. It's talking about separating them completely from each other with the sheep being off to one side and the goats to the other.


Not at all. But, again, I can't possibly sound as dumb as you actually are. It's not possible.


I have metaphorically trounced you six feet under, so you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Again, you make dumb comments. If they must be separated completely, as you say, it means they were mixed beforehand.

That’s how grammar and the definitions work. Obviously, you have no command of either.

But the passage destroys your dumb comment,

Matthew 25
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The passage says the NATIONS, plural, shall be gathered in front of Christ on EARTH and THEN he separates the sheep from the goats, which means they were TOGETHER when gathered before Christ.

Of course, those who grasp grammar and definitions know the sheep can’t represent bride because she was separated prior to the event depicted in Matthew 25 according to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So why do you think your opinions should matter to me, if mine doesn’t matter to you.

I don't. So, guess what, buddy? I'm not going to waste any more time talking to someone who doesn't care at all about what I have to say. You can keep babbling while pretending as if I care about what you think if you want, but I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

 

[covenantee]

First, the futurists interpret the seven churches as prophetic too. So, there are more here that think you opinion isn’t worthy a plug nickel.

What is nonsense is thinking amill predates Premillennialism. As we both witnessed, the extant writing of the ante Nicene authors was Chiliasm. I'm still waiting for you to produce the writing of anyone at that time who wrote about amill. I’m waiting!!!!!!! And since Premillennialists rebuke the notion that the scriptures support such a notion, you have to produce one theologian that wrote about it prior to interference of the Roman beast putting their two cense into it, which you can’t.


If they are placed side by side, then one is already on the right and one is already on the left. Their already separated.

See how dumb you sound.

You simply don’t get is because you don’t read properly or grasp the definition, the meanings of words, let alone grammar.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

Speaking of dumb grammar: "Their already separated." "putting their two cense into it"

Did you flunk kindergarten English?

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Speaking of dumb grammar: "Their already separated." "putting their two cense into it"

Did you flunk kindergarten English?

Hey, you’re welcome to engage your big brain to solve the riddle, too. I’d surmise you hold the same dumb idea Christ joins the bride with the goats again, insomuch as you guys think the sheep represent the bride.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

I don't. So, guess what, buddy? I'm not going to waste any more time talking to someone who doesn't care at all about what I have to say. You can keep babbling while pretending as if I care about what you think if you want, but I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

So why do you keep coming back if I don’t care about what you say? You know that’s not the reason. You’re really triggered cause you can’t get me in a gotcha occasion. Quite the contrary, you’ve been caught more than once, such as your view the sheep represent the bride. You can’t explain it without trying to gaslight us and twist the meaning of the words and grammar linked with the SEPARATION of the sheep and the goats.

Again, if you don’t care about what I think, why do you keep coming back? Obviously, it’s because I’m the one that keeps getting you in the gotcha occasions, which really triggers you.

I’m going to take a little vacation again and I’ll be back to trigger you more if you come back.

Like I said, you like getting a metaphorical theological trouncing, don't you?

 

[ewq1938]

See how dumb you sound.

IMO Premills should avoid personal insults. I know it can be hard sometimes but it's better for us and the readers to try not to use them in our posts. Take care.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

IMO Premills should avoid personal insults. I know it can be hard sometimes but it's better for us and the readers to try not to use them in our posts. Take care.

I do believe I've been quite reserved in light of the fact I've been called a pawn of Satan or words to that effect. I do appreciate and try to respond in like with people that are respectful, but when they act deplorable, I believe it appropriate to rain fire down on their heads.

Thanks for the reminder, though.

 

[covenantee]

Futurists and Historicists believe all the eschatological views of amills are false.

False.

Below is a list of scores of Protestant Reformers.

Note: Joseph Mede isn't among them.

Every one in the list was historicist.

With the exception of Latimer and Tyndale, every one in the list was amil.

List of Protestant Reformers - Wikipedia​

 

[grumix8]

Calm down guys were reading a good posts of revelations we can continue and talk about th end times and we are grown ups.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

False.

Below is a list of scores of Protestant Reformers.

Note: Joseph Mede isn't among them.

Every one in the list was historicist.

With the exception of Latimer and Tyndale, every one in the list was amil.

List of Protestant Reformers - Wikipedia​

I was talking about the forum, not history.

 

[Davy]

You’re just crying because I exposed your twisted interpretation of Revelation.

Your only telling lies that you live by, and reveal your Biblical illiteracy.

The USA Biblically represents Manasseh, the 13th tribe of Israel. And Manasseh's brother is Ephraim, to whom the Genesis 48 prophecy was that his seed would become "a multitude of nations", which represents the western Christian nations of history. And... another Scripture you no doubt are totally illiterate of, is the 1 Chronicles 5 Scripture which reveals God's Birthright went to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

I'm also certain you don't have a clue how Manasseh is the 13th tribe of Israel either, as when Joseph's two sons were added into the inheritance of their brethren of Israel, per the Genesis 48 blessing by Jacob, Ephraim the younger was put over his elder brother Manasseh, and that put Manasseh in the slot as a 13th tribe. And on the Great Seal of The United States, the number 13 to represent the 13 original colonies are also given with symbols that directly relate to Joseph and Israel. Some of the U.S. founding fathers even wanted to put Moses and the Israelites crossing the red sea as a symbol on the Great Seal of The United States.

Since your last name sounds Hispanic, I could easily assume the reason you don't like the United States by putting all your false claims upon her, is that you are JEALOUS of the United States, and might be siding with radical Hispanic groups that hate that their ancestors sold lands to the United States, and those radical want those lands back! Am I correct to think that about you??

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Your only telling lies that you live by, and reveal your Biblical illiteracy.

The USA Biblically represents Manasseh, the 13th tribe of Israel. And Manasseh's brother is Ephraim, to whom the Genesis 48 prophecy was that his seed would become "a multitude of nations", which represents the western Christian nations of history. And... another Scripture you no doubt are totally illiterate of, is the 1 Chronicles 5 Scripture which reveals God's Birthright went to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

I'm also certain you don't have a clue how Manasseh is the 13th tribe of Israel either, as when Joseph's two sons were added into the inheritance of their brethren of Israel, per the Genesis 48 blessing by Jacob, Ephraim the younger was put over his elder brother Manasseh, and that put Manasseh in the slot as a 13th tribe. And on the Great Seal of The United States, the number 13 to represent the 13 original colonies are also given with symbols that directly relate to Joseph and Israel. Some of the U.S. founding fathers even wanted to put Moses and the Israelites crossing the red sea as a symbol on the Great Seal of The United States.

Since your last name sounds Hispanic, I could easily assume the reason you don't like the United States by putting all your false claims upon her, is that you are JEALOUS of the United States, and might be siding with radical Hispanic groups that hate that their ancestors sold lands to the United States, and those radical want those lands back! Am I correct to think that about you??

Actually, I agree with the two-house theology approach in interpreting eschatology.

As to America, I love my country, but not the globalist agenda that the elites chose to follow with the rise of the merchants. As I said, America came up like a lamb but speaks as a dragon today.

Let me ask you, are you prejudice against Hispanics? Sounds like it when you're trying to put words in my mouth that I hate America. BTW, my family goes back several generations as natural born Americans.

 

[Davy]

Actually, I agree with the two-house theology approach in interpreting eschatology.

Anyone who has actually studied more of their Bible than just The New Testament Books should easily agree with the two houses that God's Word teaches, because it is written. So in reality, the matter is about those who actually believe The Bible as written, or they don't.

As to America, I love my country, but not the globalist agenda that the elites chose to follow with the rise of the merchants. As I said, America came up like a lamb but speaks as a dragon today.

I saw the globalist political working before I got baptized, so I probably know more about it than most. Yet it's not just the USA that is being influenced by them, but all... nations are. And that is simply following what God said. And if enough study with what God said about, He showed that He is actually Who is sending it. In Joel 2, God even calls the locust army His army that He sent among His people. The purpose is to do some culling of dead weight among His people.

And the one of Rev.13:11 that will speak as a dragon, is not about a country. It is about a single entity that is coming to play Christ, because the idea of the two horns LIKE a Lamb is a pointer to Lord Jesus Christ. That's about the coming pseudo-Christ Jesus warned about in Matthew 24:23-26, the false-Messiah, the "man of sin" that Apostle Paul warned about. So that ain't about a country, and definitely NOT the USA, nor even Europe.

Let me ask you, are you prejudice against Hispanics? Sounds like it when you're trying to put words in my mouth that I hate America. BTW, my family goes back several generations as natural born Americans.

NOPE! I am not prejudice against Hispanics, nor any other peoples. No true Christian can be.

But like my Heavenly Father, I do hate criminal acts, murder, raping, pushing illegal drugs, kidnapping, sexual trafficking, etc., which radical Hispanic gangs are doing in America. God bless Donald Trump for having the huevos to stop it!

 

[covenantee]

I was talking about the forum, not history.

Whom to believe?

1. Historical Reformation historicists
2. A modernist forum faux historicist

Need a hint?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

False.

Below is a list of scores of Protestant Reformers.

Note: Joseph Mede isn't among them.

Every one in the list was historicist.

With the exception of Latimer and Tyndale, every one in the list was amil.

List of Protestant Reformers - Wikipedia​

Right. If you take his insults and lies away from his posts, there's nothing left.

 

[Marilyn C]

Furthermore, the Romans were pagans and couldn’t fall from moral rectitude; that’s a covenantal issue, which is only applicable to the covenantal people of God. The first-century Jews don’t fit the prophecy in any substantive study, and neither do the Jews in our time; only apostate, liberal Protestantism fits the prophecy of the Mystery of Babylon, and from a Historicist’s hermeneutic, according to Daniel 2.

Hi Jerry,

Actually Mystery Babylon is I Believe the UN. Here are my reasons.

GLOBAL MOTIVATION

A Global Government needs the hearts and minds of the people to agree with it. Thus there is needed the motivating force of religion to drive people towards a Global Government. It is the unifying reason that people will give allegiance to.

Thus we see that the United Nations has become the International Institution to promote the New Age one-world religion spirituality.

THE UNITED NATIONS (UN)

The UN has issued a Global Charter called `The Earth Charter.` This is promoted as the `new scripture.` It stresses that man is his own saviour. By saving `mother earth,` they say, that we will once again return to an idyllic garden of Eden.

All aspects of society are being involved - religions, business, education, health, entertainment, sport and civil society. Everyone is to work towards the same goals, with the same moral values. These goals are called the `Sustainable Development Goals,` (SDG) officially known as `Transforming our World,` and popularly known as `The Future We Want.`

To achieve these Sustainable Development Goals the United Nations uses the Common Values of the `Earth Charter.` The document makes a declaration for a just, sustainable, peaceful global society and its mission is to promote -

`A Global society founded on a shared ethical framework.`


Global Moral Values & their meaning.

These are – respect, responsibility, justice, trustworthiness, civic virtue & citizenship, etc

RESPECT – like tolerance & inclusive – means appreciation for people & lifestyles (pagan & promiscuous, different sexual preferences……)

RESPONSIBILITY – refers to the `common good` of the community, where individuals must yield to the collective interests. (Socialism)

CIVIC VIRTUE & CITIZENSHIP – are also open ended. Compliant citizens must be ready to conform to changing rules & evolving duties.

People are made to think that they are to blame for all the world`s ills, diseases, poverty, crime, inequality and thus to get rid of these guilt feelings people give over their personal responsibility to the UN`s plans and goals.

The Global Charter was drafted in coordination with a hard law treaty designed to provide an integrated legal framework for all environment development law and policy. It is called the `International Covenant on Environment and Development.` Governments are required to adhere to its ever increasing requirements.

Thus we can see that the United Nations, the arm of the G20, is bringing together all areas of society to believe in this new religion of `Mother Earth.`

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hi Jerry,

Actually Mystery Babylon is I Believe the UN. Here are my reasons.

GLOBAL MOTIVATION

A Global Government needs the hearts and minds of the people to agree with it. Thus there is needed the motivating force of religion to drive people towards a Global Government. It is the unifying reason that people will give allegiance to.

Thus we see that the United Nations has become the International Institution to promote the New Age one-world religion spirituality.

THE UNITED NATIONS (UN)

The UN has issued a Global Charter called `The Earth Charter.` This is promoted as the `new scripture.` It stresses that man is his own saviour. By saving `mother earth,` they say, that we will once again return to an idyllic garden of Eden.

All aspects of society are being involved - religions, business, education, health, entertainment, sport and civil society. Everyone is to work towards the same goals, with the same moral values. These goals are called the `Sustainable Development Goals,` (SDG) officially known as `Transforming our World,` and popularly known as `The Future We Want.`

To achieve these Sustainable Development Goals the United Nations uses the Common Values of the `Earth Charter.` The document makes a declaration for a just, sustainable, peaceful global society and its mission is to promote -

`A Global society founded on a shared ethical framework.`


Global Moral Values & their meaning.

These are – respect, responsibility, justice, trustworthiness, civic virtue & citizenship, etc

RESPECT – like tolerance & inclusive – means appreciation for people & lifestyles (pagan & promiscuous, different sexual preferences……)

RESPONSIBILITY – refers to the `common good` of the community, where individuals must yield to the collective interests. (Socialism)

CIVIC VIRTUE & CITIZENSHIP – are also open ended. Compliant citizens must be ready to conform to changing rules & evolving duties.

People are made to think that they are to blame for all the world`s ills, diseases, poverty, crime, inequality and thus to get rid of these guilt feelings people give over their personal responsibility to the UN`s plans and goals.

The Global Charter was drafted in coordination with a hard law treaty designed to provide an integrated legal framework for all environment development law and policy. It is called the `International Covenant on Environment and Development.` Governments are required to adhere to its ever increasing requirements.

Thus we can see that the United Nations, the arm of the G20, is bringing together all areas of society to believe in this new religion of `Mother Earth.`

Are you talking in terms of people leaving their current religions in favor of this one world "new religion of 'Mother Earth'"? Or are you talking about all false religions becoming part of this new one world religion? If the former, it's not even reasonable to expect that to happen.