SDAs, USA and the End times.

[Josho]

Well a chip or a visible tattoo may be the most logical interpretation, you seem to be suggesting a chip implant, however it doesn't mean that it is, Revelation is a very spiritual supernatural book.

And there is a supernatural realm out there, just as the power of God exists, there is also a dark side, black magic does happen which of course we know is from the devil, consider Pharaoh's magicians and where they got their power from, they weren't just illusionists. So we cannot rule out that it could be a supernatural marking.

Another possibility is it could be an invisible mark, as not everyone wants a chip implanted under there skin....... This could be another non-supernatural interpretation, it could be an invisible mark, and that would fall into your scanner theory, think about something like an invisible QR code stamped on someone's hand or forehead, which cannot be seen by the human eye, but can be picked up my a special camera and it cannot be removed.

However QR Codes and Barcodes were not intended or originally created to bring in the mark of the beast, they are just product identifiers and with the QR code sometimes a website identifier.

Either way I don't think this mark on the hand or forehead will be so obvious.

However a mark could also happen somehow supernaturally.

 

[quietthinker]

You are free to if you chose to but it is no longer a command to . We keep it daily in Christ. It wont save you to go to church on Saturday! Come on..

The Commandment states, Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy...'. It doesn't say, go to church on Saturday.
Distinguishing between the Commandment and mans perception, matters.

 

[Josho]

God will NEVER condemn a single soul for worshipping on Sunday.

God will condemn people for what they are worshipping on Saturday and Sunday or any other day.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.

I definitely agree with this one David

 

[David in NJ]

Well a chip or a visible tattoo may be the most logical interpretation, you seem to be suggesting a chip implant, however it doesn't mean that it is, Revelation is a very spiritual supernatural book.

And there is a supernatural realm out there, just as the power of God exists, there is also a dark side, black magic does happen which of course we know is from the devil, consider Pharaoh's magicians and where they got their power from, they weren't just illusionists. So we cannot rule out that it could be a supernatural marking.

Another possibility is it could be an invisible mark, as not everyone wants a chip implanted under there skin....... This could be another non-supernatural interpretation, it could be an invisible mark, and that would fall into your scanner theory, think about something like an invisible QR code stamped on someone's hand or forehead, which cannot be seen by the human eye, but can be picked up my a special camera and it cannot be removed.

However QR Codes and Barcodes were not intended or originally created to bring in the mark of the beast, they are just product identifiers and with the QR code sometimes a website identifier.

Either way I don't think this mark on the hand or forehead will be so obvious.

"QR Codes and Barcodes are just product identifiers and with the QR code sometimes a website identifier."

BINGO

In fact, they are the premise for the indoctrination for people to receive the MoB
product identifiers = you are the product they will identify and demand your worship = no one can buy or sell without it

 

[David in NJ]

I definitely agree with this one David

We also agree together at the foot of the Cross

 

[Josho]

Defiance and self justification have built in condemnation.
The text you have quoted (Rev. 9:20) pertain to ones own works (constructions) Substituting the 1st day for the 7th day is a construction of man and insisted on equates with the worship of demons

You can't equate that with the worship of demons, that is ridiculous, it does not matter what day one has their Sabbath rest on...

 

[David in NJ]

However a mark could also happen somehow supernaturally.

Please give any detail/thoughts

 

[David in NJ]

@Josho @PS95 @Brakelite @quietthinker

Good Night everyone and God Bless

 

[PS95]

The Commandment states, Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy...'. It doesn't say, go to church on Saturday.
Distinguishing between the Commandment and mans perception, matters.

Sure it does, I asked because you appeared to be defending the SDA thinking on this. If you do not state your opinion how can we know?
If you read Hebrews 4 carefully, you will see it is EVERYDAY that we keep NOW as our Sabbath rest.

 

[quietthinker]

You can't equate that with the worship of demons, that is ridiculous, it does not matter what day one has their Sabbath rest on...

The text quoted by David in post # 103 (Rev. 9.20) equates mans works (constructions) with the worship of demons. Read it again.

 

[quietthinker]

Sure it does, I asked because you appeared to be defending the SDA thinking on this. If you do not state your opinion how can we know?
If you read Hebrews 4 carefully, you will see it is EVERYDAY that we keep NOW as our Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4 uses the Sabbath as a foreshadowing of the rest we have in Jesus. It is used in the context of the Hebrews who had Gods commandments but refused to obey them. It does not tell us we now have permission to ignore it or change it.

I would ask, who was it that shifted the emphasis from the 7th day to the 1st? It was Papal Rome; they boast of it.
Daniel foretold of this power to come and what it would do in Daniel 7:25-26 as quoted below,

'And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

It was the law specifically relating to time that was changed by Rome....and the Protestant World is bowing to it.

 

[quietthinker]

Sure it does, I asked because you appeared to be defending the SDA thinking on this. If you do not state your opinion how can we know?
If you read Hebrews 4 carefully, you will see it is EVERYDAY that we keep NOW as our Sabbath rest.

I have a few opinions about several things, which one did you want to know about that you say I haven't stated?

 

[Brakelite]

Everyday is the Sabbath now when we rest from our works. We rest in Him.
Hebrews 4

Except can you show me one person who rests from his secular labour every day in order to spend time in worship and spiritual activities? Because that is the purpose of the Sabbath Commandment. It's a relational thing. Time spent with Jesus.
I know you mean we rest in Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer, and that we have no grounds for works as a means of salvation, and rightly so. But there is no hint in the NT that such a spiritual rest sets aside physical rest as stipulated in the commandment. Remember also.
The Sabbath is a day. Not just according to the commandment, but according to the week. How we measure time as humans... The weekly cycle... Has been around since Adam. Jesus Himself as our Creator, was the one Who established it, set that one day aside making it holy. It's still holy. And Isaiah, under the inspiration of the holy Spirit, stated we will be observing the Sabbath even in the new earth. And that rest concept as a replacement for Sabbath observance, is a new idea. The early church knew nothing of such an idea. And there is archeological evidence of Christian Sabbath keeping in many cities that Christians fled to before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. For example Pella, where Eusebius said that Christians there observed the Sabbath until the 5 th century. Observing the 7th day Sabbath is a Christian practise. Not for maintaining salvation or gaining it, but for placing oneself in the best possible place for relational maturity in Christ. Obedience in other words.
And David...

There is no such Saturday commandment in the New Covenant in Christ.
Likewise, there is no Sunday commandment in the New Covenant in Christ.

We are called to keep all the commandments of God. The final church that Christ translates at His coming will be commandment keepers. Whether they are Seventh Day Adventists or not is immaterial. They will be observing the 7th day, because it will be a test of final faithfulness. A choice between the union of US government and the Vatican and their legislated day, or the true Lord's Day according to scripture. Whose authority are you surrendered to? Whose idea was it that resting in faith replaced the Sabbath observance? Which apostle taught that? Did Jesus? Did the early church? Same with Sunday. Whose invention was that? Originally a day for sun worship but now baptized into the faith? And David. The wages of sin was always death, regardless which commandment you are talking about. And it still remains that. If it were possible to cast aside any commandment on the basis that "the just shall live by his faith", then Jesus need not have died. If you are going to cast aside the 4th commandment o on the basis of resting in Christ,. Why not cast aside the 3rd, the 7th, or the 10th?

 

[Brakelite]

I know. heartbreaking. I love brakelight and he knows that. but his heels are fully dug in.

Most times there is doublespeak at least with JWs there is. They have the ability to believe 2 opposing views simultaneously. Sad part is they can't make the distinction. They will just lash out say you are a liar. It's hard to know what to do. When they look to their leaders words above scripture it is a real problem and that is precisely what they do.

I'm sorry, but are we talking about JWs here, or me?

 

[Brakelite]

I'm curious still concerning the mark of the beast, regardless where you go with it. It still belongs to the beast, and no-one who opposes Sabbath keeping has ventured to identify the mysterious beast whose mark is an implant/tattoo/ last identifier etc etc.

 

[Brakelite]

Revelation 13:16

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

Revelation 13:16 reveals that the earth beast compels "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave" to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads. This mark symbolizes allegiance to the sea beast, reflecting both internal acceptance (forehead) and external compliance (hand) with its counterfeit system of worship and authority. This symbolic act underscores the pervasive nature of the beast’s control, extending across every social and economic class. To fully understand this verse, it is helpful to consider its connection to the Jewish practice of tefillin (phylacteries), described in Deuteronomy 6:4-8. Tefillin, small leather boxes containing Scripture, are worn on the forehead and bound to the arm with leather straps. They symbolize devotion to God, reminding the wearer to align their thoughts (forehead) and actions (hand) with His commandments. The placement of their hand to the heart signifies a commitment to love and obey God wholeheartedly.

The mark of the beast functions as a counterfeit tefillin. Where tefillin reflect allegiance to God’s law and sovereignty, the beast’s mark represents submission to human traditions and authority. Receiving the mark on the forehead symbolizes mental agreement with the beast’s doctrines, while receiving it on the hand signifies outward compliance, even without full belief. This counterfeit reflects the beast’s effort to usurp God’s rightful place, demanding allegiance that belongs to Him alone. This symbolism extends beyond individual actions. At a societal level, we can compare Sabbath observance in the Jewish tradition with Sunday worship enforced by the papacy. The Sabbath was given as a sign of God’s covenant with His people (Exodus 31:13), a communal practice of obedience and devotion. In contrast, Sunday observance, instituted by Constantine but confirmed and officially adopted by the papacy, became a mark of allegiance to the sea beast’s authority, emphasizing human traditions over God’s commandments. This shift underscores the societal impact of the mark, binding communities to the beast’s system.

At a global level, the comparison between the Temple in Jerusalem and the Vatican further illustrates this contrast. The Temple represented God’s universal presence and authority, while the Vatican became the global symbol of the papacy’s dominion. The Vatican’s wealth, influence, and missionary outreach reflect the sea beast’s ambition to extend its mark across nations, uniting the world under its counterfeit system of worship.

Revelation 13:16 also emphasizes the universality of this mark: "small and great, rich and poor, free and slave" receive it, highlighting the beast’s reach across all demographics. No one is exempt from its demands, symbolizing the totality of its control over humanity. This mirrors historical reality, where the Church’s influence spanned all classes, using fear, coercion, and institutional power to enforce allegiance. In this context, the earth beast plays a crucial role as the enforcer of this mark. By promoting the doctrines of the sea beast, they ensured that the papacy’s authority was deeply embedded in individual lives, societal structures, and global systems. They propagated the papacy’s teachings as divine truth, aligning thoughts (forehead) and actions (hand) with the sea beast’s counterfeit gospel.

Revelation 13:16 challenges us to consider our allegiance. Just as the Jewish practice of tefillin reminds us to submit our thoughts and actions to God, this verse warns against aligning with the beast’s counterfeit system. The mark of the beast represents a spiritual choice: Will we follow God’s commandments and receive His seal, or will we conform to the traditions of men, bearing the mark of the sea beast?

Author Unknown.

 

[Jay Ross]

That is if you are to take Matthew 24 for a literal day or hour.

But I shall see what happens in the 2040s, plenty of predictions about the timing have been made before and have not came to past.

The connection is a prophetic year for a prophetic day. What I am suggesting is that there will be around 96 days between when the fig tree begins to bud leaves in the early spring and the beginning of the summer harvest season. So, adding 96 years to 1948, tell us what the last year will be for this present age. The Exodus 20:4-6 prophecy of the duration of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers during the third and the fourth age/generation of the existence of the people group known as Israel will end in the year 1948 + 96 = 2044. In the year 2045, the first year of the seventh age, God will begin gathering the Israelites to Himself where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth to redeem them.

As far as prediction, I knew a preacher who would write a new book, when his last book failed to identify the end of this present age, by adding five to ten years to his last prediction.

If we can determine when God's presence filled Solomon's temple we can then discover when the end of the seventh age will occur, after which the final judgement will occur. All that we need to know is the prophetic word that was given to connect these two events together on a timeline.

I am not trying to identify the person who will be the False Prophet or the Anti-christ during the End Times because my focus is on Christ and what He requires of us.

 

[Josho]

Please give any detail/thoughts

Perhaps during those times those who reject Christ instantly get a spiritual mark of the beast? The second beast can probably see spiritually, it will probably know whether if you a Christian or not without even asking you.

I mean look at the 3 verses leading up to Verse 16.

Revelation 13:13-15

13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

This sounds like some pretty supernatural stuff to me, and then you look at that last bit of Verse 15 "and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."

It very much sounds to me like the beast will know where everyone is and who they serve....

The issue with the chip implant theory is it can be surgically removed...

 

[Rockerduck]

Perhaps during those times those who reject Christ instantly get a spiritual mark of the beast? The second beast can probably see spiritually, it will probably know whether if you a Christian or not without even asking you.

I mean look at the 3 verses leading up to Verse 16.

Revelation 13:13-15

13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

This sounds like some pretty supernatural stuff to me, and then you look at that last bit of Verse 15 "and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."

It very much sounds to me like the beast will know where everyone is and who they serve....

The issue with the chip implant theory is it can be surgically removed...

Those who belong to Jesus Christ have an invisible seal

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Rev. 7:3 - saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

We can't see it, but the spirit world can. It stands to reason that the ones who don't belong to Christ have a different mark that is easy to see.

 

[David in NJ]

Perhaps during those times those who reject Christ instantly get a spiritual mark of the beast? The second beast can probably see spiritually, it will probably know whether if you a Christian or not without even asking you.

I mean look at the 3 verses leading up to Verse 16.

Revelation 13:13-15

13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

This sounds like some pretty supernatural stuff to me, and then you look at that last bit of Verse 15 "and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."

It very much sounds to me like the beast will know where everyone is and who they serve....

The issue with the chip implant theory is it can be surgically removed...

Good Morning,

OK let's rack our brains with Truth = Thy word is Truth"

#1 - It is BOTH spiritual and literal
#2 - Something must take place for it to become the unforgiveable sin
#3 - God already told us what that unforgiveable sin is in Genesis