The corner

[Aunty Jane]

Rather than take this thread off course, if you have any questions or doubts about the identity of the 144,000, I’d be more than willing to discuss it with you. Just be prepared: the direction that conversation might take may challenge your assumptions. I also want to mention that I responded to other posts, especially the one concerning the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth, but I didn’t receive a reply from you. Additionally, I provided clear and concise passages about Christ and His apostles establishing thrones on earth, yet that too went unanswered. If you’re interested in exploring the topic of the New Jerusalem and its governance, I’m more than willing to engage in that discussion. However, please understand that if you don’t fully commit to the conversation, I may interpret that as a lack of sincerity on your part. I think that's fair.

Challenge accepted, but it will have to wait till tomorrow…I am out of time right now…..
I apologize for the failures you mentioned, you are not the only poster I reply to….and sometimes I get on a tangent and am taken away from other threads. I assure you it wasn’t intentional. I have been on this rodeo for many years and New Jerusalem will be an interesting topic to explore….please start a new thread and I’ll talk with you tomorrow. AJ.

 

[talons]

***

@talons do you think I despise Christians?

You would end up despising yourself since you are a Christian , that a born again follower of Christ must hold to the tenants of the Trinity to be called a Christian to me is absurd .

 

[Matthias]

You would end up despising yourself since you are a Christian , that a born again follower of Christ must hold to the tenants of the Trinity to be called a Christian to me is absurd .

”Other Faith” is an appropriate registration for me in the atmosphere of this forum, but that doesn’t mean that I despise those who are registered “Christian”.

”Christian” members include trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians. I don’t despise any of them.

 

[Hiddenthings]

”Other Faith” is an appropriate registration for me in the atmosphere of this forum, but that doesn’t mean that I despise those who are registered “Christian”.

”Christian” members include trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians. I don’t despise any of them.

Well that's comforting

 

[Matthias]

Well that's comforting

Geschichtsarbeitung -> “coming to terms with history”.

A German phrase which I learned for the first time in my reading this morning.

Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully, critically.

Read trinitarian authors, binitarian authors and unitarian authors.

This is my recommendation to all and sundry.

 

[Matthias]

Geschichtsarbeitung -> “coming to terms with history”.

A German phrase which I learned for the first time in my reading this morning.

Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully, critically.

Read trinitarian authors, binitarian authors and unitarian authors.

This is my recommendation to all and sundry.

Above all else, read the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the New Testament regularly.

The source of Jewish monotheism, from which trinitarianism, binitarianism and unitarianism are all later developed.

 

[PS95]

Do you believe the lie?

I’ve been very polite throughout our exchange, yet for some reason, you judged my motives by calling me a troll, “cute,” and “dazzling.” In the end, you were unable to defend your position and resorted to attacking me personally rather than addressing the well supported argument. Same happened with Zao but to your credit you lasted a lot longer.

You don't quit do you? You made the absurd claim that Jesus became THE WORD at his death.
No.. The Word became flesh. The flesh did not become the Word.
If you are that backwards I can't help you. Seeing you were cocky and self-righteous why would I waste my time?
Think about it. You came here new as grass and with an attitude. Who needs that?
You are the type that must have the last word, so have at it. I wont read it though.

 

[Matthias]

“Don’t care” is quietly speaking loudly in the poll and in the churches.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Above all else, read the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the New Testament regularly.

Sadly, it appears more and more that many “Christians” in the modern era, dismiss the Old Testament largely because of the terminology….something “OLD” must be outdated…..like the “old covenant”…..but Jesus taught from the Hebrew Scriptures about himself and his mission, referencing the prophets who wrote about his coming.
If you don’t study the Bible in its totality, appreciating that it is one story from start to finish, you miss the point of its message.

The New Testament never replaced the “old” one, it simply completed the story. It seems to me that most people lost the plot because of concentrating on the end rather than truly understanding the beginning.

The source of Jewish monotheism, from which trinitarianism, binitarianism and unitarianism are all later developed.

The source of anything is important, but understanding complete deviations is also vital in order to discern what the original message was….and if the message has changed in all of these supposed expressions of the original, do we see where and how that change came about….and by whom?

The devil was going to sow “weeds” of counterfeit “Christianity” into the world….so what is the best way to detect a counterfeit? You have to know exactly what the original looked like, but in today’s world, the sophistication of modern technology makes it even harder to detect. The internet has not only made the counterfeits look real, but it uses its media to promote and spread the counterfeits far and wide.

”Perception management” is the way the devil operates….and he has so many counterfeits that it’s very difficult to pick one out of the many options he has “developed”. He has the ability to “blind minds” which he does through his propaganda. (2 Cor 4:3-4) Think about what that means.

Blind Freddy can see why these deviations cannot all be correct, because there is only one truth, and it exists…..but not many will find the “hidden treasure”….(Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) Why is that so? Why is it hidden and by whom? (Matt 13:44)

Do we see the big picture? Or are we staring at a few dead pixels in one corner and wondering why we have so many unanswered questions?

 

[Lambano]

I've long found it interesting that the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD did not set out with the explicit goal of "deifying Jesus" Instead, the council was convened primarily to resolve a theological dispute that was threatening the unity of the early Christian church. The core issue was the teaching of Arius, a presbyter from Alexandria, who argued that: Jesus (the Son) was created by God the Father and therefore was not eternal or fully divine in the same sense as the Father.

Yes, but you'll notice that the belief that Christ had some sort of real preexistence prior to Bethlehem was not under dispute; the question boiled down to "when?" That belief had been around for a while. A quick internet search turned up Tertullian, Ignatius of Antioch, and Justin Martyr, all predating Nicaea. If you've already accepted Christ having some of the properties of deity (and Bart Ehrman's comment that the Western Church has always believed in Christ's deity rings in my mind, though it's not wise to give too much credence to the church's enemies), then logically you either have to have some innovative redefinition of monotheism, or throw it out altogether and concede to polytheism.

This is the logic affecting my choice to vote "Yes".

 

[Lambano]

Thanks. In light of that, would you still say that it is a false dichotomy?

I'm going to go with a logically necessary derivative, not a dichotomy.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Yes, but you'll notice that the belief that Christ had some sort of real preexistence prior to Bethlehem was not under dispute; the question boils down to "when?" That belief had been around for a while. A quick internet search turned up Tertullian, Ignatius of Antioch, and Justin Martyr, all predating Nicaea. If you've already accepted Christ having some of the properties of deity (and Bart Ehrman's comment that the Western Church has always believed in Christ's deity rings in my mind, though it's not wise to give too much credence to the church's enemies), then logically you either have to have some innovative redefinition of monotheism, or throw it out altogether and concede to polytheism.

When you consider how quickly apostasy began to take shape even during Paul’s ministry, and examine early writings like the Didache, it becomes clear that the doctrine of the Trinity (and Christs deity) was something that developed over time. In fact, most Trinitarian theologians would agree with this assessment. I'm not particularly interested in arguing or debating the Trinity, honestly, it's not something that can be effectively discussed unless you're willing to bring in the church council creeds.

Zao, Spiritual Israel & PS95 are all floundering here Do you believe the lie? with a simple short study on the Source of Immortality and none of them can answer those references.

Now I know what a Trinitarian needs to do those references on the true source of immortality and its not pleasant! And if you accept the Apostles position you have a created Jesus - no other option.

 

[Matthias]

I'm going to go with a logically necessary derivative, not a dichotomy.

Poll logic.

A true dichotomy = no, in the poll

A false dichotomy = yes, in the poll

Neither a true nor a false dichotomy = ?, in the poll

 

[Matthias]

A gentle reminder: it is a violation of the Board rules for members who are registered “Christian” to speak against the Trinity. As difficult as it is or may be for non-trinitarian “Christian” members, please hold your fire or change your member registration to “Other Faith”. Thanks.

Post in thread 'Do you believe the lie?'
Do you believe the lie?

 

[Hiddenthings]

A gentle reminder: it is a violation of the Board rules for members who are registered “Christian” to speak against the Trinity. As difficult as it is or may be for non-trinitarian “Christian” members, please hold your fire or change your member registration to “Other Faith”. Thanks.

Post in thread 'Do you believe the lie?'
Do you believe the lie?

Can't for the life of me know why someone would do this and with such strong arguments also...

 

[Matthias]

Can't for the life of me know why someone would do this and with such strong arguments also...

I don’t want my thread to be closed or deleted. I also don’t want ”Christian” members banned for violating the Board rules.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I don’t want my thread to be closed or deleted. I also don’t want ”Christian” members banned for violating the Board rules.

It's okay Matt, I will keep the pearl of great price in my pocket for now. I'm busy discussing New Jerusalem with Jane

 

[Lambano]

“Don’t care” is quietly speaking loudly in the poll and in the churches.

One of the industry standards bodies I'm on always has "Abstain" as one of the choices in every poll. The difference between voting to abstain and truly abstaining from voting is that voting to abstain counts towards our quorum requirements.

 

[Matthias]

One of the industry standards bodies I'm on always has "Abstain" as one of the choices in every poll. The difference between voting to abstain and truly abstaining from voting is that voting to abstain counts towards our quorum requirements.

This one does too. Now. Thanks to you.

 

[Lambano]

I don’t want my thread to be closed or deleted. I also don’t want ”Christian” members banned for violating the Board rules.

If I have strayed beyond explaining the logic behind my vote into advocacy or debate, I will be happy to delete a post or two.

Though if I were to get banned, the admins would be doing me a favor.