The devil's lie in Christian music
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.........
Paul and John and JUDE.... are very similar "theologians".
John or JUDE, more then any other NT apostle understood Paul's Gospel, and taught God's Grace perfectly, as John 3:16
So, i always think of these 2 Apostles, together.
Do you understand that John was offering a Prayer of God's favor?
And this verse is usually taught, by taking out the name "Gais" and is just taught as a universal prayer for the entire body of Christ.
So, the song lyrics are Katy Nichole doing the same.
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Nope. Fact. God says so. His word is the Final Word, the objective, authoritative "straight line" by which all crooked lines are discerned. Now, you may dismiss this reality as mere opinion, but this no more changes that reality or dissolves it than you dismissing the Law of Gravity as "opinion" dissolves it.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
LOL
Fine, lets hear it! What does God’s Word say about this?
Or are you a false witness?
I don't look at Abortion as murder. But that is just me, my view of abortion. It's pretty up in the air between not and is.
Aborting the child outside of the womb would be among murder I suppose, due to the baby out the womb.
But if it's not a form of anything really, how it is really murder? Makes no sense to me, when its inside of the womb.
Am I weird?
VictoryinJesus
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There is another abortion where the little ones, little children of the Lord are murdered before they have a chance to be formed(fed with milk until they are ready for meat) in Christ. This happens between brothers. That is also the definition of destroying a Life before its maturity.
Paul spoke of Christ being formed in them. The “them” being those without the knowledge of Christ, weak and without strength. What “woman” belongs to God? There is the woman who is free and above. Spiritual. There is the woman called an adulterous woman who brings forth sin unto death. Which woman does not kill or abort the babes although they are weak and still yet carnal, and in so not destroying they destroy not Christ who died for them? The strong ought to support the weak?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Well, to be more accurate abortion is usually the worse kind of murder. A mother gets naked and lays down on a demonic altar and spreads her legs for a monster to step up to murder her baby…..I say monster because no human could stand to murder babies day after day.
Then she has to live with it…..then she has to stand before Christ on Judgment Day and answer for it.
Now I am a military man and I understand the concept of killing some to save others….Sometimes those decisions have to be made.
In the case of an abortion because it jeopardizes the mothers life????
1. This scenario is extremely rare…..maybe 1 in 100 billion in ten years. It is just something that people throw up as a what if.
2. It would happen in a hospital, not an abortion clinic, with a discussion between patient and doctor.
I don't think so @Grailhunter. It is just an issue you got. I don't have an issue with it.
People easily murder people via hatred of the heart so...
1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
People easily murder people via hatred of the heart so...
1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
I don't understand how you think this is a persuasive counter to what I pointed out about the false belief of "healing in the Atonement." Basically, all you've done here is contradict, which is what cantankerous children on the playground do in argument with one another. Simply asserting that people have been "tricked by the devil" by no means proves that they have. Your assertion needs some justification. Do you have any?
None of what you wrote here deals with what I pointed out from Paul's own words about his "thorn in the flesh." Paul himself stated he was stoned only once (2 Co. 11:25), not "numerous times" as you claim, and may have died (the account - Acts 14:19-20 - is unclear on this point). In the account itself of Paul's stoning, there is no indication that he "received healing." Not a word is said on this point. It can only be assumed that he was miraculously healed, such an event forced into the account rather than drawn out of it. The actual account says that he was dragged out of Iconium by those who'd stoned him who had supposed - this is the word Scripture uses - he was dead. After they've gone, Paul just gets up and walks off, no prayer for healing made, no laying on of hands, or whatever. I don't see, then, on what grounds from the account itself you can say I'm promoting "lies of the devil." Of the two of us, it's you who has messed around with the account to make it say what you want it to say.
About why God allowed the "thorn in the flesh" in Paul's life, Paul is really clear:
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
So, from the account itself what you've asserted about it is obviously in error. The "messenger of Satan" buffeted Paul by afflicting his flesh, as Paul says quite clearly (thorn in the flesh). The result of this "buffeting" was that Paul was left physically weak (very likely a problem with his eyes). God had two purposes in keeping Paul afflicted and weak: to keep Paul from exalting himself (vs. 7), and to keep Paul reliant upon God's power (vs. 9). How different from what you're asserting is Paul's own explanation of his God-given weakness!
It doesn't follow that God is not good if He allows His own to suffer physically and otherwise. It was through the horrendous suffering of Christ that God demonstrated His awesome love to us. It was through Paul's many trials and troubles that God formed and established the early Gentile Church. Thousands of God's OT prophets suffered horribly in service to God. And, as Paul demonstrated, if it serves God better, He will make us weak so that He may better show His strength through us. This isn't "what the devil wants folks to think" but is the plain declaration of God's word.
The Christian who believes God is determined to keep all of His children from sickness and harm is in for a very destructive correction of this belief. None of us is getting out of this world alive; God kills every one of us, sooner or later. And as Job declared, "Man is born to trouble as the sparks fly upward." His own treatment at the devil's hands, allowed by God, is another example of the reality that God will serve His purposes through us even if it means we become sick, and suffer tragedy, and are ill-comforted in our sorrow. As C.S. Lewis wrote, "He is not a tame lion."
Your experience is only of value in establishing God's Truth when it conforms to, and demonstrates, His Truth. And as I've shown, God nowhere in His word promises, carte blanche, health, wealth and prosperity to His own but does, in His word, both in example and instruction, indicate that suffering - sometimes terrible suffering - goes with the territory of living in a sin-fouled world and of being one of His own.
Well, you've just described what Paul flatly stated about his own life and what happened to Job by God's permission. And what of Jesus? He "had no place to lay his head," no wealth, no material comforts, and in service to the will of God endured persecution, abuse and, finally, murder by his enemies. You will have to consider all these deceived by the devil if you really believe what you've written above.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ok. I dont go into all that stuff that much. Everyone in life has done wrong.
Now if it some predator trying to come meet a kid, best bet the police gonna get invovled.
@Behold wrote:
"Do you understand that John was offering a Prayer of God's favor?
And this verse is usually taught, by taking out the name "Gais" and is just taught as a universal prayer for the entire body of Christ.
So, the song lyrics are Katy Nichole doing the same."
You already made this point and I'm afraid repeating it doesn't really answer the point I made to it. So, let me restate my point:
Did John offer this remark to Gaius as a "worship song," performed before hundreds or thousands? No, he didn't.
My broader contention in this thread is that "worship" songs, ostensibly offered in praise of God, often do no such thing, but focus upon the creature rather than their Creator, stealing the limelight from God. As I've shown, this is certainly what happened in Nichole's performance and happens pretty uniformly in modern "worship" songs.
"Do you understand that John was offering a Prayer of God's favor?
And this verse is usually taught, by taking out the name "Gais" and is just taught as a universal prayer for the entire body of Christ.
So, the song lyrics are Katy Nichole doing the same."
You already made this point and I'm afraid repeating it doesn't really answer the point I made to it. So, let me restate my point:
Did John offer this remark to Gaius as a "worship song," performed before hundreds or thousands? No, he didn't.
My broader contention in this thread is that "worship" songs, ostensibly offered in praise of God, often do no such thing, but focus upon the creature rather than their Creator, stealing the limelight from God. As I've shown, this is certainly what happened in Nichole's performance and happens pretty uniformly in modern "worship" songs.
VictoryinJesus
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The illustration you give: ‘Well, to be more accurate abortion is usually the worse kind of murder. A mother gets naked and lays down on a demonic altar and spreads her legs for a monster to step up to murder her baby….’
Reminds me of Revelation 12:4-5 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
What is the "this" you mean? That God's word is the Final Word on things pertaining to Christian living? Or that His word is the Final Word on what constitutes proper praise of Him? Or do you mean something else?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
The Bible teaches that : "before you were born, I (God) knew you in the womb".
So, isn't that true? ??............ And if it is, then if you kill those whom God knew, while they are in their mother's womb, have you mudered = whom God knew?
Should that be legalized as a "woman's right"?
And isn't it true that an Abortion stops a heartbeat, every single time?
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are making a false equivalence, and im not.
See.........John stated a prayer for someone, and Katy's song, is a prayer as lyrics, in a song.. stated to everyone who hears the song.
In both cases, we are not looking at a Theology Lesson., we are looking at a heartfelt prayer sent to the hearer.
John's prayer is sent to one person, and some Bibles translate it as sent to every born again Christian, but not to any unbeliever.
John's Prayer.... is not used as a song, (that i know of)... but, it could be......and would become a lovely God praising song as a Prayer...., same as Katy's song.
However, Katy's Song, is sent to anyone......and not just to the Body of Christ, so its a bit more evangelistic, which appeals to me very much.
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Yes, I'm quite aware of the topic of the thread. But within the discussion of the thread's main topic other sub-topics have been broached. So, I just wanted to be clear on which topic you meant. Why, the sarcasm?
I haven't been contending in this thread over a particular sort of music that's godly but over what constitutes "worship music" - in particular whether or not modern "worship songs" actually worship God. On this question, God's word is very helpful, offering very clear criteria by which to assess if modern "worship songs" are what they claim to be. Is this, though, what you're wanting to discuss? It seems to me you've shifted from this question to a broader one about music generally.
VictoryinJesus
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How is “womb” defined below?
Galatians 1:11-16 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [13] For you have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: [14] And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. [15] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, [16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
What “mothers womb” did Paul speak of when the time came, when it pleased God, who separated Paul from his mothers womb? What mother?
Point is “before you were born” could be …before you were born from above, I (God) knew you in the womb. We desire it to be when that born of flesh is flesh. What of but when the time came God separated flesh and spirit? By the circumcision of Christ(what is separated) in the putting off of? This is the circumcision made without hands, not a cut made by that doctors that sits there to cut the umbilical cord. When God says “I knew you before you were born” we can’t overlook Romans 5:6-8 For when we were yet without strength, in due time(just like Paul said in: But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, [16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Christ died for the ungodly(before they were born, while they were yet still in their mothers womb). [7] For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. [8] But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners(not yet born, still in our mothers womb), Christ died for us.
: "before you were born, I (God) knew you in the womb".
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