The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric

[Matthias]

Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - the living God, everything else is idols in scripture - is the Messiah’s God.

It was the living God himself, the Father, who revealed to Peter that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16).

 

[Matthias]

Stick with the Messiah’s genuine pearls, not what someone holds out to us saying it is the Messiah’s pearls.

We should all be searching the scriptures daily to see if what we are being told is true (Acts 17:11).

 

[Matthias]

Why are you not ashamed of the anathemas in your creeds?

He won’t tell you so I will. Because - sincerely believing them to be true - he / they affirm them and revel in them. He / they are acting as they are expected to act, and should; having the courage of their conviction, living their faith.

A word of advice to non-trinitarian Christians: Let them.

***

The constraints of history:

The anathemas in their creeds are post-biblical, just as their creeds are.

Primitive Christianity -> biblical time frame.

Nicene Christianity -> post-biblical time frame; Council of Nicaea (AD 325) / Council of Constantinople (AD 381) / Council of Chalcedon (AD 451).

Another word of advice to non-trinitarian Christians: Do not fear or be intimidated by the anathemas contained in the creeds of Nicene Christianity.

Carefully and calmly, not under duress, examine in depth what their creeds teach us and then decide whether or not they are persuasive. If you find that they are, join them.

P.S.

I didn’t have all non-trinitarians in mind when I posted this message. I primarily taught trinitarian and non-trinitarian Christian college students, but I also taught college students who weren’t Christian. My advice to non-trinitarians who don’t identify as Christian is the same advice that I offered to non-trinitarian Christians in this post.

Among other things, I’m an educator. In other threads (and on other forums over the years) I’ve publicly advocated - with virtually no support from those who affirm the creeds of Nicene Christianity, nor from those who do not - for church history to be taught in all churches, and privately in homes.

 

[Matthias]

What gets me, is that in the last 30 years or so, many 'Christians' have made Jesus the center of the universe and left his father behind as the back up bass player in the band. It is a trend that should be alarming to the well-informed Christian today, who actually cares. I think they need to reexamine the many 'limitations' the Son has as compared with his Father....

To your point, from my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning -

“Love Jesus more than you love anyone else.”

(Pastor Scott Roberts)

https://x.com/scottroberts/status/1911946276582605284?s=61

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning:

”The Apostles’ Creed gets you to the hero in history, but the Nicene Creed tells you exactly who this hero is from eternity. Your Bible reading skills need both.”

(Dr. Fred Sanders)

https://x.com/credomagazine/status/1918116246786134231?s=61

 

[Matthias]

Another example from my “For you” feed on X / Twitter this afternoon:

”At the same moment Christ is sleeping among donkeys, he is filling the heavens.”

(Dr. Gavin Ortlund)

https://x.com/credomagazine/status/1918396443469000805?s=61

 

[Helen]

What gets me, is that in the last 30 years or so, many 'Christians' have made Jesus the center of the universe and left his father behind as the back up bass player in the band. It is a trend that should be alarming to the well-informed Christian today, who actually cares. I think they need to reexamine the many 'limitations' the Son has as compared with his Father....

Sorry , I find this a bit silly and ‘over the top’ . As if Father God would be sad or upset , and the Holy Spirit sits in the corner because He doesn’t get mentioned as much as the Fat her or Son!!

Jesus Christ came to reveal the Father , He is the reflection of the Father , He is One with the Father . ….” and The Word was God “

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

The Christian apologetic should be reaffirming and defending his beliefs and faith to others by arguing for a doctrine(s) with a Father centric message(s) of hope and salvation rather than wrapped neatly in a Christocentric message(s). If not understood and believed that scripture reaffirms a Father-to-Son relationship first, then even the most simple and common Christocentric message eventually unravels and becomes chaotic and confused. This is my premise and personal belief.

As one source puts it...Albert Emanuel 2017...

"The Bible is Father-Centric, not Christocentric. The entire bible revolves around the central role of God the
Father in the plan of salvation. God the Father is the God of Israel, the God of Jesus, and the God of
Christians. It was God the Father who sent His Son, sacrificed His Son, and resurrected His Son. The Bible is primarily about God the Father and secondarily about Christ the Son. The biblical emphasis is upon God the Father. Jesus constantly and continuously emphasized God the Father. The Lord's prayer is entirely about God the Father. The kingdom and the power and the glory belong to God the Father. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of God the Father, not the kingdom of Christ. The time has come for the theological restoration of God the Father to His rightful place as the one ultimate and absolute God of Gods....."

Albert Emanuel commits the error many do in arriving at an abstract sophist conclusion.

God and Immanuel,Jesus,are synonymous. Ergo, God out Father and Jesus,Immanuel (God with us) our Savior are one in the Kingdom.

Isaiah 43
I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me. ... I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. ... I alone am the LORD; only I can rescue you.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

He won’t tell you so I will. Because - sincerely believing them to be true - he / they affirm them and revel in them. He / they are acting as they are expected to act, and should; having the courage of their conviction, living their faith.

A word of advice to non-trinitarian Christians: Let them.

***

The constraints of history:

The anathemas in their creeds are post-biblical, just as their creeds are.

Primitive Christianity -> biblical time frame.

Nicene Christianity -> post-biblical time frame; Council of Nicaea (AD 325) / Council of Constantinople (AD 381) / Council of Chalcedon (AD 451).

Another word of advice to non-trinitarian Christians: Do not fear or be intimidated by the anathemas contained in the creeds of Nicene Christianity.

Carefully and calmly, not under duress, examine in depth what their creeds teach us and then decide whether or not they are persuasive. If you find that they are, join them.

P.S.

I didn’t have all non-trinitarians in mind when I posted this message. I primarily taught trinitarian and non-trinitarian Christian college students, but I also taught college students who weren’t Christian. My advice to non-trinitarians who don’t identify as Christian is the same advice that I offered to non-trinitarian Christians in this post.

Among other things, I’m an educator. In other threads (and on other forums over the years) I’ve publicly advocated - with virtually no support from those who affirm the creeds of Nicene Christianity, nor from those who do not - for church history to be taught in all churches, and privately in homes.

Ii had to go back to see to whom you addressed your charge of anathema,curse.

Refuting scripture is blasphemy.

Jesus is God.

Any who teach that is not true are cursed.

 

[quietthinker]

Sure, that does make a lot of sense.

Yes, the God-centric Bible is of the real Jews of the OT, although the early Christians would have still used this Father God-centric approach as their basis in understanding Christ and the new age of grace for salvation. This would be a natural logical step, and progression in understanding.

What gets me, is that in the last 30 years or so, many 'Christians' have made Jesus the center of the universe and left his father behind as the back up bass player in the band. It is a trend that should be alarming to the well-informed Christian today, who actually cares. I think they need to reexamine the many 'limitations' the Son has as compared with his Father....

Remove the Son and the Father is obscured.

 

[Matthias]

Ii had to go back to see to whom you addressed your charge of anathema,curse.

See the creeds of the trinitarians.

Refuting scripture is blasphemy.

Scripture cannot be refuted.

Jesus is God.

The one God himself identifies Jesus as elohim / theos. That presents no problem to Jewish monotheism.

Any who teach that is not true are cursed.

I wouldn’t go that far.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

See the creeds of the trinitarians.

I know them.

Scripture cannot be refuted.

And yet that occurs quite often.

The one God himself identifies Jesus as elohim / theos. That presents no problem to Jewish monotheism.

True.

I wouldn’t go that far.

The Bible does.

2 Timothy 2
“If we deny Him, He also will deny us”

Matthew 10
“Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." 1 Corinthians 16:22

 

[Matthias]

I know them.

Everyone should but not everyone does. That is why for decades I’ve called for them to be taught in all churches and privately in homes.

And yet that occurs quite often.

Whether maliciously or out of ignorance, scripture cannot be broken.

The Bible does.

2 Timothy 2
“If we deny Him, He also will deny us”

Matthew 10
“Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." 1 Corinthians 16:22

Do you then anathematize the trinitarians? The binitarians? The unitarians? The Jewish monotheists?

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Do you then anathematize the trinitarians? The binitarians? The unitarians? The Jewish monotheists?

Off topic.

 

[Matthias]

Off topic.

Not at all. The topic we were discussing was specifically anathematizing. Are you afraid of the trinitarians? The binitarians? The unitarians? Me, a Jewish monotheist?

Off topic? No.

You’d prefer not to say? That’s fine.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Not at all. The topic we were discussing was anathematizing.

No,that's not the topic in my post. Your detail is not my topic.

I asked if you agree Jesus is God made flesh. You took a long trek to answer what turned out to be,yes.

Then you tried to expand your detail by asking about anatha izing other topics.
.

Are you afraid of the trinitarians?

See forum rules related to that close handed issue.

 

[Helen]

Remove the Son and the Father is obscured.

Short , but profound ! Agree.

 

[Matthias]

Any who teach that is not true are cursed.

I wouldn’t go that far, and I don’t anathematize anyone.

 

[Matthias]

No,that's not the topic in my post. Your detail is not my topic.

You asked me about it. The topic of the thread is stated in the OP.

I asked if you agree Jesus is God made flesh. You took a long trek to answer what turned out to be,yes.

I don’t believe Jesus is God in the same way that you believe Jesus is God.

Then you tried to expand your detail by asking about anatha izing other topics.

See above.

See forum rules related to that close handed issue.

I’m registered “Other Faith”. I’m a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

I wouldn’t go that far, and I don’t anathematize anyone.

We're not talking about you. This is about what God says.

And I'm finding there are a few here who don't like that at all. (What God says) Which is why they change things.