He doesn’t say what the creeds of the trinitarians say.
Cursed for not affirming the doctrine of the Trinity? That’s the 4th century church, not God.
The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric
- Thread starter Mindcruiser
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He doesn’t say what the creeds of the trinitarians say.
Cursed for not affirming the doctrine of the Trinity? That’s the 4th century church, not God.
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
I'm aware of the thread topic.
I was,as you know,referring to the topic you interjected in your reply to my post that you quoted.
Well,if you know the meaning of logos , and read scripture, there's only one way to know Jesus is God.
The close handed policy stands regardless of registration.
If you are a Jewish monotheist then you have no issue with someone recognizing Jesus was God,The Word,made flesh. That's scripture.
It’s how someone recognizes that Jesus was / is God that I have an issue with.
Of course the Board policy stands. As someone who is registered “Christian” you aren’t allowed to express disagreement with the doctrine of the Trinity. As someone who is registered “Other Faith” I am allowed to express disagreement with the doctrine of the Trinity.
For “Christian” members it is affirmation of Nicene Christianity or keep your mouth closed.
Sigh .
Our OP @Mindcruiser has done an Elvis on us , he has left the building , seemly the same day he left on errands .
Be that as it may he did not answer my question in post #82 , life on the a forum is sometimes short .
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Our OP @Mindcruiser has done an Elvis on us , he has left the building , seemly the same day he left on errands .
Be that as it may he did not answer my question in post #82 , life on the a forum is sometimes short .
The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric
Where do you place the Holy Spirit in your personal belief ? I found your source I think , but it said 2007 . https://www.yahowah.net/fathercentric-christianity Yes, you found the source, although I may have put in the wrong date on it or this was a revised later edition. Thx.. That other...
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Since Jesus is God this tomato versus tomahto.Offered in support of the OP:
”In the New Testament gospels, Jesus presents himself as being primarily God-centered, not self-centered thus Christ-centered. Jesus is very clear about this, that to come to God one must go through Jesus. Thus, for Jesus, God is the ultimate destiny, the ultimate authority, the source of all things, the main one with whom we must have to do, and God has made Jesus the conduit through whom we approach God.”
(Kermit Zarley, “The Bible Is Primarily God-Centered, Not Christ-Centered”)
The Bible Is Primarily God-Centered, Not Christ-Centered
So many Christians get this wrong. They are taught that the Bible is primarily Christ-centered and that a person's faith should be judged accordingly. Iwww.patheos.com
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A word to my readers. I seldom quote non-trinitarian sources. For that reason I want to alert readers that I am doing so now: This is a non-trinitarian source.
History shows us that it isn’t.
An example will help illustrate the point: trinitarianism (“Jesus is God”) and modalism (“Jesus is God”) are like oil and water. The trinitarian creeds affirm the former and anathematize the latter.
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
I appreciate that you took the time to let me know. I’m talking about church history.
Behold
Well-Known Member
When Thomas the Apostle told Jesus......>"my Lord and my God".......the "Nicene council" didnt exist.
Now, what is unique about that verse, regariding "Trinity Doctrine"....is that it was given before any of that doctrine was created.
Also......notice that when Thomas bowed before the Risen Christ, and said "my Lord and My God".....>He understood the Trinity, and Jesus understood it also, as Jesus didnt correct Thomas.........and why would The God-man correct the Truth? He wouldn't.... He didnt.
Sister-n-Christ
Well-Known Member
Modalism is considered a heresy by most Christian denominations. It teaches that God appears in three modes.
FYI, Jewish Monotheism is Judaism. Because Judaism is monotheistic.
As you know Judaism does not recognize Jesus is Messiah.Much less that Jesus is also God,The Word,made flesh. John 1.
That's why Jews are not allowed on the Christians Only boards.
Trinitarian creeds:
Here's a more detailed look at each:
- Apostles' Creed:
This creed is a foundational summary of Christian beliefs, including statements about God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. It's a short and widely used creed, often used in baptismal services.
- Nicene Creed:
This creed was developed at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. It specifically addresses the nature of Christ and His relationship to the Father, affirming His divinity and co-equality with the Father. It also affirms the Holy Spirit's role as God.
- Athanasian Creed:
This creed, also known as the Quicunque Vult, focuses on the Trinity and the dual nature of Christ (both fully divine and fully human). It explicitly states the equality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and condemns those who disagree with its statements.
- Nicene Creed:
Basic history. Nicene Christianity came on the scene a few centuries later.
Again, basic history. The doctrine was created by the church in post-biblical times.
What he understood is that when he saw and heard the lord Jesus Messiah (Psalm 110:1) he saw and heard his God (Yahweh) in him. This is primitive Christianity.
Jesus himself, like Thomas himself, is a Jewish monotheist. You know that Jewish monotheists aren’t trinitarians. For a Jewish monotheist to become trinitarian he or she must renounce Jewish monotheism.
Jesus didn’t correct Thomas because what Thomas said is true.
The term “God-man” comes to us from Origen (in the 3rd century). Jesus, who is both God and man, - as understood in the context of his own Jewish monotheism - is the truth.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Thomas and Jesus predate anything Catholic or anything similar.
What Thomas said to Jesus, was stated before there was a Nicene statement or doctrine. or Origin.
Just pay attention to what He Said about Jesus.
"Lord.. and GOD"...
There was no Trinity Doctrine or Nicene statement........around at that time.
So, How did Thomas know that Jesus is God?
It because He is, and Thomas knew it, and so did the rest of the Apostles.
John 1 is really clear and so is Paul.
Thomas would have known that God the Father is God......and He just told you in the verse that Jesus is "God".
1+1 = 2
Yes, Jesus is God.
Correct.
As Thomas said to Jesus.
Does that matter?
As we know that Jesus is a virgin born human......and Thomas understood he was God in the Flesh.
Paul teaches the same Truth.
And? Jesus is God. Period.
I get that but Jesus is God.
John 8:28
Therefore Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM, that I do nothing on my own authority and I say nothing except what the Father has taught me." Who is I AM?
John 14:9
Jesus answered, "Have I been with you all this time Philip and you still don't know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the father'?
Jesus is God
Yes it does matter. The early church fathers you're Catholic. Oops.
Behold
Well-Known Member
And Thomas said to Jesus.....>>"My Lord and my God"......before the CULT OF MARY< existed.
Thomas proclaimed that Jesus is God......in an Apostles Letter, that was written before a MaryCult or a Catholic Church Father was created., or before a Koine Greek Text existed or a Latin Vulgate.
"but behold, Peter is the first Pope">. "and Mary tells Jesus what we Pray".
Uh huh, and Loch Ness is real and UFOs are going to collect millions of people and that is the "Rapture".
Right.
That’s right. They are Jewish, not “Catholic or anything similar”.
As I noted, by several hundred years.
I’m paying close attention to what one Jewish monotheist (Thomas) said to another Jewish monotheist (Jesus of Nazareth) and I understand them in terms of Jewish monotheism. You aren’t and you don’t. That is why we don’t believe the same.
Again, as I noted, this is an elementary historical fact; a constraint of history.
That’s a point of agreement.
So is the entire witness of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.
Certainly. That is the basic tenet of Jewish monotheism.
He just told us in the verse that he sees and hears God in Jesus. Jesus is the exact image of God.
A basic fact of arithmatic.
Primitive Christianity is simple.
Yes. Origen rejected Jewish monotheism.
That’s fine, but I understand that within the boundary of Jewish monotheism. You don’t. (See above.)
Jesus - whom we have been able to agree is in some sense God - himself has a God. He is the Son of his God.
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