Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

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Dash RipRock

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It's amazing that people say God is going to torture people in hell forever and ever, when they die. That's not true

That's not what Jesus said about it. He wouldn't lie about this would He?

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus must have been on vacation when God sent out the memo that He was going to annihilate people in hell so they cease to exist.

Those teaching annihilationism are helping the devil trick people in to not getting born again so they can enjoy continuing to live in sin as they think they'll cease to exist one day and never suffer everlasting punishment that Jesus talked about

So ultimately the annihilationism folks are servants of the devil by spreading teaching that claims Jesus lied about hell.
 

MatthewG

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That's not what Jesus said about it. He wouldn't lie about this would He?

Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment

Mark 9:43-44 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus must have been on vacation when God sent out the memo that He was going to annihilate people in hell so they cease to exist.

Those teaching annihilationism are helping the devil trick people in to not getting born again so they can enjoy continuing to live in sin as they think they'll cease to exist one day and never suffer everlasting punishment that Jesus talked about

So ultimately the annihilationism folks are servants of the devil by spreading teaching that claims Jesus lied about hell.
What Jesus said, sure it matters. However, what we find in Revelation is that Hell is done away with. This was at the white and great judgement it's called. I believe personally it happened, and the books were laid open and all were judged. Some co-signed to go through the lake of fire, however I consider the fire coming from God and something is of a healing nature, and not a harmful one. What may be harmful is the rejection of self in knowing of Yahavah, and his true love and nature for people.

So I don't believe in annihilationism. I believe reconciliations as I had posted using the notions of Pauls writings from Romans chapter 5. It still seems that there is a separation between faithless people and faithful people. Being them outside of the gates.
 

Dash RipRock

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However, what we find in Revelation is that Hell is done away with.

OK so you believe Jesus was wrong which makes Jesus a false teacher?

Jesus specifically said the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched

We can't have it both ways, so either Jesus is wrong, or the Holy Spirit who told John to write whatever you think claims hell is done away with was in error.

So Who is in error here? Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?

I believe reconciliations as I had posted using the notions of Pauls writings from Romans chapter 5.

So you are a universalist who believes everyone will be saved in the end and there's no need to get born again or live for the Lord and we can all go back to living in sin because in the end everyone will be saved?
 

MatthewG

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OK so you believe Jesus was wrong which makes Jesus a false teacher?
Where do you pull that from? Exactly show me? I believe in Jesus, who is my Lord and Saviour, who died for the entire world in order for it to be reconciled back to Yahavah, and in order for sin to be paid for all people.
Jesus specifically said the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched
The lake of fire is still on going today, in the heavenly realms. I believe that this is a healing property that comes from Yahavah. I believe there are people that may be going through that purifying fire today, and becoming to know whom the Lord Jesus is. Do I believe that there is some type of loss of not getting to know God now in this life and doing so in the next life, I do. But what do you think about those things, those things can be extremely personal, or they could be something completely different. How will I know unless you tell me. If you do not believe what Revelation says is true, it seems you have missed some of the bible narrative that helps to complete a whole.
We can't have it both ways, so either Jesus is wrong, or the Holy Spirit who told John to write whatever you think claims hell is done away with was in error.
Oh, I see, so do you see Revelation as a something that is not viable personally to you? I believe it's a letter to 7 Churches, and they suffered, and things occured which would never be so great again as Jesus said himself, on the mount olivet discourse as it is most famously known. You can assume whatever you want to. You can take Revelation out of the equation, and you can have whatever it is that you may believe concerning those matters because I don't know unless you actually tell me.
So Who is in error here? Jesus, or the Holy Spirit?
I don't understand where any of this come from, with conversing with you.
So you are a universalist who believes everyone will be saved in the end
In the end. Not everyone is going to be saved to the Kingdom of Heaven. Some people are going to be on the outside of the gates, as the bible proclaims to my best estimation. What that looks like. You tell me what that would look like. Cowards, murderers, those who love sexual things, all living outside of the Kingdom of Heaven in the Heavenly Realms?
and there's no need to get born again
I believe there is an importance in being born again, to a person who seeking after the Father in heaven, and therefore take a moment in their life to sit down and read the bible and learn about it for themselves. As the Holy Spirit which is given by God for those whom are seeking him in faith, and those are the ones whom are going to be blessed.
or live for the Lord
I don't see why there is no reason to have the desire in the heart to live for the Lord Jesus, and the Father in heaven at all.
and we can all go back to living in sin
I don't think anyone suggest that sinning is a good thing. There are consequences like being put in jail, and just the negatives of life coming at a person all the time, just like a viper strikes its victim. When will they learn, and did they have a heart for God? I can't read someones heart, can you read someones heart? At the end of life? One that wanted God, even through struggle. One that wanted God all through just propertity and false hopes or something. What can you think of?

All I can do is propose what the bible states concerning the end. And while here on this earth, it better to build up spiritually rather than materially though there is nothing wrong with having a job. Having a home, having a family, having transportation, etc... Living sin, what does that mean to you? I believe sin has been taken care of. All things are lawful, but not all things benefical, and some things land you in jail or in a group home, or etc...

Go back to living in sin? What does that mean to a person?
because in the end everyone will be saved?
Again, not everyone is going to be saved to the Kingdom of Heaven, in the end. I don't believe it's good to go around and do negative things which takes life from others at all, but to live a life, faithfully towards Yahavah, and believing on the name of his Son, and loving ones neighbor as their self.

If a person doesn't care for God, therefore so there it is from the heart a person says so.
 
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Dash RipRock

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Where do you pull that from? Exactly show me? I believe in Jesus, who is my Lord and Saviour, who died for the entire world in order for it to be reconciled back to Yahavah, and in order for sin to be paid for all people.

Jesus specifically said the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched

Did He get it wrong???

If you do not believe what Revelation says is true, it seems you have missed some of the bible narrative that helps to complete a whole.

Either Jesus told us wrong, the Book of Revelation is wrong - OR you are misunderstanding something.

Jesus is responsible for the content of God's Word so God's Word cannot contradict itself.

Anytime it appears to different parts of the Word of God is in contradiction - that mans one of the parts means something different than what it appears to mean, since we know God cannot lie or make mistakes.

You can assume whatever you want to.

I'm going to assume Jesus spoke truthfully and the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched

I don't understand where any of this come from, with conversing with you.

You are saying the Book of Revelation is saying something different than what Jesus said.

If that were actually true then God made an error.

I'm on the side of God could not possibly make any errors much less speak anything that is not true.

Some people are going to be on the outside of the gates

Those not admitted in to God's Kingdom will be in hell, that's what outside of the gates means.

It does not mean up in Heaven there are people milling around outside of the Great City of God kinda in some sort of purgatory or something. There is no purgatory

I believe there is an importance in being born again

To the sinner out in the world reading all this, why would they bother to get born again?

Universalists are telling them everyone will be saved in the end and there is no suffering in hell.

These are false teachings the devil has brought forth and it tricks people in to ending up suffering in hell for eternity.

Those spreading these false doctrines need to ask for forgiveness because heresy is on God's list of things that cause people go to hell.

I don't see why there is no reason to have the desire in the heart to live for the Lord Jesus, and the Father in heaven at all.

If sinners out there are being told they will be saved in the end, then why wouldn't they want to just keep living in sin and ignore the Lord?

They are hearing false teaching from people claiming to be Christians so they think it's all good they can keep living in sin and be saved in the end too!

All I can do is propose what the bible states concerning the end.

Universalism and annihilationism is false doctrine and NOT what God's Word teaches

Again, not everyone is going to be saved to the Kingdom of Heaven

Those not saved entering in to God's Kingdom will spend eternity in hell where punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched - according to Jesus!

Mark 9:43-44 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I sure hope you get delivered from this false doctrine stuff!
 

MatthewG

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Jesus specifically said the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched

Did He get it wrong???



Either Jesus told us wrong, the Book of Revelation is wrong - OR you are misunderstanding something.

Jesus is responsible for the content of God's Word so God's Word cannot contradict itself.

Anytime it appears to different parts of the Word of God is in contradiction - that mans one of the parts means something different than what it appears to mean, since we know God cannot lie or make mistakes.



I'm going to assume Jesus spoke truthfully and the punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched



You are saying the Book of Revelation is saying something different than what Jesus said.

If that were actually true then God made an error.

I'm on the side of God could not possibly make any errors much less speak anything that is not true.



Those not admitted in to God's Kingdom will be in hell, that's what outside of the gates means.

It does not mean up in Heaven there are people milling around outside of the Great City of God kinda in some sort of purgatory or something. There is no purgatory



To the sinner out in the world reading all this, why would they bother to get born again?

Universalists are telling them everyone will be saved in the end and there is no suffering in hell.

These are false teachings the devil has brought forth and it tricks people in to ending up suffering in hell for eternity.

Those spreading these false doctrines need to ask for forgiveness because heresy is on God's list of things that cause people go to hell.



If sinners out there are being told they will be saved in the end, then why wouldn't they want to just keep living in sin and ignore the Lord?

They are hearing false teaching from people claiming to be Christians so they think it's all good they can keep living in sin and be saved in the end too!



Universalism and annihilationism is false doctrine and NOT what God's Word teaches



Those not saved entering in to God's Kingdom will spend eternity in hell where punishment is everlasting and the fire in hell is never quenched - according to Jesus!

Mark 9:43-44 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I sure hope you get delivered from this false doctrine stuff!

Alright. Good luck to you. :waves:


I know it's hard to believe that hell is over with. Especially if Jesus never came back. If Jesus never came back, then what where the people waiting for?

If there are any other people whom would like to share, please feel free to do so.
 

MatthewG

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Thank you for contributing to the thread, for people to come by and check out the thread, @Dash RipRock, all the best to you in Christ. There are people whom tend to show patterns and you remind me a lot of Jack. All the best to you friend! I'll have you on ignore though because it will always be this in the end.

I love you, and I do sincerely ask anyone else who would like to explain why there are faithless people outside of the gates, and what that may mean to you, please feel free to take time to write, and state what might strike your mind.

It's very contrary to some doctrines which may be taught today, however you gotta understand that Revelation was one of the Lord Yeshua, and all of it has to come together in some form or fashion and may the Holy Spirit of Yahavah, guide.
 

MatthewG

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He was annoying, lol. :) I am sure I was annoying to him. Whatever you gonna believe, have it. Riding on my tail will only give me more exposure. To a view that is not commonly noted in the world of "Christianity."
 

MatthewG

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Nah, just not looking too foolish on the internet. You may know a lot of things, that is all well and great. I'm happy for you. You can continue to bout about ideas yourself now though, @Dash RipRock