Is it possible to lose salvation?

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Kokyu

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Actually, in Acts 15, Paul taught the other Apostles, who learned his Doctrine.

Paul's Doctrine, came from Jesus, so, no other apostle was going to "check this" or "correct this", as Paul's Doctrine was given to Him by Jesus., personally., including THE Gospel.


Galatians 2:1-2
1 Then after an interval of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along also.
2 It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.


Paul here indicates that he submitted the Gospel he was preaching to the Elders/Apostles at Jerusalem for inspection. His concern, as he says plainly, was that he feared he had "been running in vain," or had been preaching a false Gospel. And so, he offered to the apostles what he understood of the Gospel and the doctrines of the faith so that they could set him right on these things, if that was needed.

Galatians 2:7-9
7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.


After getting a good idea of what Paul was preaching and convinced it was of God, James, Peter and John extended to Paul the "right hand of fellowship," formally sending Paul as a minister to the Gentiles, as they were ministers to the Jews.

Acts 15:2
2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue.


In order to settle the debate between Paul and Barnabas, the brethren sent the two men to the apostles (James, John, Peter) at Jerusalem. They did this, of course, because these apostles held high authority in the Early Church, "first among equals" you might say, and were recognized by the Early Church to possess such authority - even over Paul and Barnabas.

Acts 15:4
4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them.


Paul and Barnabas gave a report of their doings to the apostles and elders at Jerusalem, suggesting that Paul and Barnabas were, in some measure, under the spiritual authority of the apostles at Jerusalem. And in Acts 15, only statements by Peter and James during the council are recorded (none by Paul), both of a directive sort, and Paul is given a letter from James to deliver to the Gentile Christians at Antioch stipulating things the Gentile believers were not to do (fornication, eating things offered to idols, blood, or animals that had been strangled to death). All of this is strongly indicative of Paul being under the spiritual aegis of the apostles at Jerusalem, in particular, as the Early Church, in general, seemed to be.

In light of all this, I wonder at your statements in the quotation above.

In Galatians.......... Paul speak about the other Apostles, and their knowledge and said this.. about them all...

""""""As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message."""""""

And in 2nd Peter, .. it was Peter himself who said that Paul's letters were "Scripture"......equal to the Torah.
Later these same became the doctrine for the Church, and THE Gospel, and they make up MOST of the New Testament Epistles.

Yes, I've already noted in an earlier post that Peter referred to Paul's writings as "Scripture," but the things you point out here don't somehow dissolve all that I pointed out above. You can be sure that if Paul had diverged from what Peter, James and John understood and taught of the Gospel and they had rejected Paul as a fellow apostle, Paul would have been rejected by the entire Early Church, too.

As Paul demonstrated, the sinful partiality he saw among the Jewish believers he was right to challenge, even when it meant challenging Peter directly. But, in general, Paul operated in deference to the apostles (and elders) at Jerusalem, as the scripture I cited above reveals.
 

Behold

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2 peter is heavily disputed and may not be scripture after all, research this topic and see. ig you remove 2 peter , paul's doctrines fall flat ot it's face.


Im a Bible believer so, i dont waste time with scholarship commentaries or with people who write them.... who want to try to sit in authority over the word of God.
Im also seminary trained, and im also trained in manuscript evidence.....so, what this led me to do.. is TRUST THE BIBLE...... (a real one) even more and more and more.

What i do, is study it, as it requires, .. 2 Tim 2:15.... and believe it, and watch it perform its Grace as it enligtens those who trust it, and diminsh those who never will.
The thing about "bible correctors" and similar, is that they are ALL going to die as they have for the last 500 yrs, and the Bible never will., as God will preserve His word, "forever".

Also,
Paul's doctrine is THE "Doctrine for the Church"..... and His Gospel, is THE Gospel, and He recieved all this from Jesus, not from any of the 11.

Paul wrote most of the NT epistles, so thats a : CLUE

also what you mentionned about """"""""As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; ""

is clearly indicative of the tension and between the original 11 and paul,

The "original 11" met Paul in Acts 15, and learned His Theology., as His came specifically from Jesus, and is designed specificially for the "body of Christ" as found right now as : "the time of the Gentiles' which started with Christ's death on The Cross that Birthed the NT Church.
So, Paul was chosen to be THE "apostle to the GENTILES".. and most of the "body of Christ" are GENTILES..

The 11, were not specifically chosen for this.....as they had been given the previous joy of being Christ's disciples/apostles, who spent their time in HIS Ministry to the JEWS. (House of Israel).
Paul is not that one.......and that ministry was not related to the Body of Christ..... or the NT Church.
Paul's ministy is "the Apostle to the GENTILES"... who make up most of the New Covenant -NT Church, and no other Apostle has this specific ministry.
 

Behold

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Paul here indicates that he submitted the Gospel he was preaching to the Elders/Apostles at Jerusalem for inspection.

They were in no postition to "inspect".
In fact they were afraid of Paul, as "the one who was previously helping to murder Christians, was coming to them.and they were nervous.

And once he had delivered to them what Jesus delivered to Paul....they understood that His Doctrine became paramount.
This is why Peter said that Paul's letters were TORAH, and this is why Paul's Epistles make up most of the NT Epistles.

In order to settle the debate between Paul and Barnabas, the brethren sent the two men to the apostles (James, John, Peter) at Jerusalem. They did this, of course, because these apostles held high authority in the Early Church,

The "early Church" is every born again believer.
There is no such thing as "one church" that is some type of Authority, as the MaryCult pretends as its false doctrine.

Paul and Barnabas gave a report of their doings to the apostles and elders at Jerusalem, suggesting that Paul and Barnabas were, in some measure, under the spiritual authority of the apostles at Jerusalem.

Paul literally did more for Christ, then all the other apostles combined., and thats a NT verse, and you are welcome to find it.
So, there is your "Head".........and the NT concludes this by stating that THE Gospel, is Paul's , and all the Church Doctrine, came from Paul.
The other Apostles learned it, from Paul, and a real student of the bible, will also learn Paul's doctrine or they will never know the correct doctrine given to the body of Christ, and they will "fall from Grace'" and end up in a cult , teaching their theology.
 

Behold

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We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ

The born are predestined for that ""conforming""", after they are "in Christ".....so, that means that after the believer is born again........God has a "Pre-destined" subsequent "conforming".....and that includes getting the "new body".

People that know the Lord have a direct relationship with Him so I recommend

So, you want to just set the New Testament on the shelf and talk about your oh so "spiritual" relationship with God that has not lead you to do what the Bible told you to do....which is Paul's Verse....that told YOU.....to "study to show yourself approved unto God"? @Big Boy Johnson .
So, Paul told you that, and if you had every started, you would have discovered that the Church doctrine that you should have learned, came from Jesus, to Paul.....in His Epistles.
 

Kokyu

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Since Christ lived during the Mosaic Dispensation. I pattern my life after the Apostle Paul. Remember, Paul said to imitate me (Paul) and Paul would follow Christ. The Mosaic Law that Christ followed is no longer in effect, it is obsolete since Christ fulfilled it.

I don't subscribe to Dispensationalism, so I don't acknowledge a "Mosaic Dispensation" as an actual thing in Scripture.

1 Corinthians 11:1
1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.


What Paul was saying here is that the Corinthians ought to do as Paul did himself and be an imitator of Christ. In other words, if they imitated Paul, they would be imitators of Jesus. So, then, Paul isn't actually recommending that the Corinthians make him their example, but, rather, Christ. Paul actually says this more directly in his letter to the believers at Ephesus:

Ephesians 5:1
1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;


Anyway, yes, Jesus did fulfill the Mosaic Law perfectly, atoning for sin at Calvary "once for all" and thus creating a "new and living way" (He. 10:19-22) a "New Covenant (not dispensation) in his blood" (1 Co. 11:25) by which we have direct access to God's throne of grace as adopted "joint-heirs with Christ" (Ro. 8:15, 17). Amazing, eh?

The laws of ceremony and separation delineated in the Mosaic Law are done away with, yes. But not, of course, the moral laws spelled out in the Mosaic Law. These laws remain in force for all.
 

Kokyu

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They were in no postition to "inspect".
In fact they were afraid of Paul, as "the one who was previously helping to murder Christians, was coming to them.and they were nervous.

Scripture, please. I know of no place in the NT where it's said that the apostles at Jerusalem feared Paul.

And once he had delivered to them what Jesus delivered to Paul....they understood that His Doctrine became paramount.
This is why Peter said that Paul's letters were TORAH, and this is why Paul's Epistles make up most of the NT Epistles.

Again, Scripture, please. As the passages I cited indicate, the apostles (and elders) at Jerusalem were the ones arbitrating Paul's dispute with Barnabas; they were the ones issuing decrees to the Gentile believers to whom Paul was sent with a letter; it was to them Paul went to determine if he had "run in vain." So, no, what you say above doesn't comport well with the facts of Scripture.

The "early Church" is every born again believer.
There is no such thing as "one church" that is some type of Authority, as the MaryCult pretends as its false doctrine.

??? Yes, the Early Church was the Church, the entire Body of Believers. I don't recall writing otherwise...

All throughout the NT, the apostles and elders within the Church acted as leaders of the Church. Do you deny this? If so, what of Paul's words to Timothy in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus in Titus 1:5-9, concerning elders/overseers and deacons? Peter writes the same sort of thing, too, in 1 Peter 5:1-5. What of the record of Acts showing the apostles and elders exerting spiritual authority over the rest of the Church, as in the examples I already gave you? There is nothing of a cult in this biblical arrangement.

Paul literally did more for Christ, then all the other apostles combined., and thats a NT verse, and you are welcome to find it.

You made this assertion, so you supply its basis. If you will not, then I've no reason to give your statement here any weight whatever.

So, there is your "Head".........and the NT concludes this by stating that THE Gospel, is Paul's , and all the Church Doctrine, came from Paul.

??? Yikes. The Gospel is God's. And all church doctrine did not "come from Paul." Recall the letter the apostles at Jerusalem sent to the Gentile Christians by Paul, directing them in various ways. Remember, also, that the Church among the Jews had been established for nearly twenty years before Paul appeared in any significant way upon the scene (Ga. 1:17-18; 2:1). Did it operate without doctrine in all that time? Obviously not.

The other Apostles learned it, from Paul, and a real student of the bible, will also learn Paul's doctrine or they will never know the correct doctrine given to the body of Christ, and they will "fall from Grace'" and end up in a cult , teaching their theology.

??? Do you know what "projection" is, psychologically-speaking? You appear to be doing it here...
 

Behold

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Scripture, please. I know of no place in the NT where it's said that the apostles at Jerusalem feared Paul.

What the verse says, is that they had heard that the one who was Killing Christians, was now become one.

So, they met Paul....14 yrs later.........so, in all that time......they wondered.
See, at this time you had Jewish spies who tried to destroy local churches.... and have the Christians captured and killed.
All the apostles were eventually murdered other then John, and being in ROME was basically asking for it.
So, when you have all the Apostles in one place, then they realize they are in jeapordy ....so, they were finally meeting Paul....the one who had been their murderous enemy.....and for 14 yrs.....they had wondered.

And notice this....... when Paul met them..... Galatians says that He gave them : THE Gospel.
What does that mean?
It means that those 11, that you claim are "pillars", didnt KNOW THE GOSPEL, yet........14 yrs, after Paul is preaching it.

So, they didnt know the Doctrine for the Church, or even THE Gospel Itself, until they met Paul.

Again, Scripture, please. As the passages I cited indicate, the apostles (and elders) at Jerusalem were the ones arbitrating Paul's dispute

You can read for yourself that these 11 Apostles were not walking in the Light of the True Gospel, as they tried to get Paul to let them circumcise Titus.
So, this is 14 Yrs after Paul is preaching the Gospel, that these 11 were still worried about Old Covenent Judaism Law.

And Paul is the one who is going to tell them.......>"you are not under the Law but under Grace".

Because..

"Christ is the end of the LAW for Righteousness for everyone who Believes"..

There are your "11 pillars" of the Church.
They knew nothing of the Church Doctrine yet.

You can read Acts 10, and find out that Peter didnt even know that Gentiles could be saved......and that is 10 yrs, after Jesus is back in Heaven.

The Gospel is God's. And all church doctrine did not "come from Paul.

Paul stated that Jesus gave Him the Gospel.........that is HIS Gospel.....and Paul stated 3x in the NT, that the Gospel He preaches is '""MY Gospel""..
You can locate that ........ and if you do, then read Galatians 1:8

So, you are not familar with any of this......and that is why you have no understanding of Paul's doctrine for the Church.



??? Do you know what "projection" is, psychologically-speaking? You appear to be doing it here...

People who can't do anything but pretend to be spiritual and "cut and paste"...always want to falsly accuse me of something on Forums.

See you there next time... @Kokyu
 

Behold

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I don't subscribe to Dispensationalism,

Paul describes that word, "dispensation"... that concept..... as "rightly dividing the word"............so once again, you're proving that your theology, is not connected to Paul's , and his is "church doctrine.
So, this means that yours isn't. @Kokyu
 

LoveYeshua

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God's Gifts, are "without repentance".

This means that God wont take them back and wont take them away............once they are bestowed.

So, Notice..

Its "The GIFT.......of Salvation'...............the "GIFT">... Of Salvation.

God's salvation is a """"GIFT"""", that God gives when a believer has given God their Faith.

So, look again, Reader...

A.) "THE GIFT... of Salvation.".. "THe GIFT of Righteousness". and "The GIFT of Eternal life".

See those 3 "GIFTs"?

AA.) "THe GIFTS of GOD, are without Repentance".. = God will never take back His Gifts or end them, for any reason.

AAA.) "God's GIFTS are =
Without REPENTANCE"......= never ending.

So, when you have "/The Gift of Salvation, and The Gift of Righteousness, and The Gift of Eternal Life"......then you will have them for as Long as the GIFT GIVER lives, and God is ETERNAL.

See it?

= Salvation is a GIFT, and if you have it, then you have it FOREVER....
why did jusus made his gospel about repentance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
 

Behold

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why did jusus made his gospel about repentance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?


That "kingdom of Heaven"... is what Jesus taught the JEWS.
See, John The Baptist came PREACHING to the JEWS>.........>"repent for the kingdom of Heaven, is at hand'""

And So He was...........as John was declaring Jesus as The Messiah come to them.....

So, you notice that there is no Cross of Christ....In "the baptist's" message......there is just repent and get wet.
Jesus gave this same, in Mark 16........as "go and make disciples..... and water baptise them>

And then..........in comes Paul....who was CALLED into the Ministry, by Jesus, when Jesus was back in Heaven.
As now the "Apostle to the gentiles" has been anointed, to Take THE GOSPEL........not just to the Jews, but to the GENTILES..

So, that is the REVELATION.....that The Cross of Christ has birthed the NT Church......that is the gentiles, mostly.

Paul is your "apostle to the gentiles"......and notice....

Paul's Gospel is not "the kingdom"......its "God's GRACE".........that is "The preaching of THE CROSS"...

This.. ......>Jesus died for our sins, and rose again on the 3rd day.....>He is our Propitiation, our Sanctification, our JUSTIFICATION... that is based on "FAITH"............not on "repent and get wet".

Paul gospel is "Justification by faith".....

So, now we are in "the time of the Gentiles".....and THE Gospel..is...>>"Grace through Faith", its God has offered Jesus on The Cross for everyone's sins.........and "all who call on the Name of Jesus, shall be saved".

"""""for THE GOSPEL is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth"""" Paul teaches us.

Which "Gospel"?

A.) Paul's. and he explains that any other is : Galatians 1:8
 
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