Interesting preterist argument

[claninja]

This is a false argument. Just because many people have made the same mistake does not mean that their written discourses are true.

My argument is not false as it’s not an appeal to popularity or tradition
—it’s an appeal to consistent, evidence-based linguistic analysis. It is a fact that the majority of dictionaries, lexicons, scholarly commentators, and English translations render genea as generation - a group of people living at the same time - , especially in Matthew 24:34. Preterism doesn’t “assume” this, as you incorrectly argued. Preterism “concludes” genea means generation based on the majority of critical and scholarly work.

Sadly, because the Israelites could not comprehend the extended timeframes, they reduced a "generation" down to a descendant generation.

Genesis 15:16 tells us that in the fourth generation/age that some of Abraham would return to the land of Canaan in their own strength. This prophecy was and is linked by many scholars today with the prophecy just above in verse Gen 15:13-14 but this is not true. This prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 when the nation of Israel was recognised, 4,000 years after the birth of Isac, as a nation once more.

This is the same fulfilled prophecy that Christ referenced in Mat 24:31 which He used as a signpost for when the sixth age would end and God would begin gathering Israel to Himself once more.

your argument here is classic eisegesis - By imposing a 4,000-year timeframe and connecting it to 1948, you are importing contemporary history into the text rather than allowing the text to speak for itself based on linguistic, historical, and literary evidence. This augments the meaning of words in order to fit your personal framework rather than deriving meaning from the text.

 

[Scott Downey]

'This generation'

When Jesus sad 'this generation' it was not referring to that generation of an average 40 years, but the one of unbelief, a wicked generation.
Seriously the people of the time of Noah lived many hundreds of years!
And the generation of unbelief God will destroy at Christ's return.
And the destruction is not yet, there is still this evil and wicked generation of unbelief on the earth to this very day.
But they will be destroyed at Christ's second coming. Then we will get new earth in which is only righteous people living.
There will be no more evil or death, for the former things will have passed away.

****************************************************
Genesis 7:1
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

Psalm 12
1 Help,[b] Lord, for the godly man ceases!
For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men.
2 They speak idly everyone with his neighbor;
With flattering lips and [c]a double heart they speak.
3 May the Lord [d]cut off all flattering lips,
And the tongue that speaks [e]proud things,
4 Who have said,
“With our tongue we will prevail;
Our lips are our own;
Who is lord over us?”
5 “For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy,
Now I will arise,” says the Lord;
“I will set him in the safety for which he yearns.”
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
8 The wicked prowl on every side,
When vileness is exalted among the sons of men.

Deuteronomy 1:35
‘Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers,

Matthew 11:16
“But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions,

Matthew 23
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood[n] of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 12:44-46
44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this (wicked) generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”


Mark 8:11-13

The Pharisees Seek a Sign
11 Then the Pharisees came out and began to dispute with Him, seeking from Him a sign from heaven, testing Him. 12 But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”

Luke 11:29
Seeking a Sign

And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.


Luke 11:30
For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation.

Luke 11:31
The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Luke 11:32
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 17:25
But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Luke 21:31-33
31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Acts 2:40
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

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I know someone will agree with the scripture!

 

[Freedm]

I am sorry but what you describe is not the resurrection!

The resurrection happens ON THE LAST DAY, to believe as you do you do not believe in the final judgment also, that there is an appointed DAY of Judgment, because I suppose to you there is nothing left to happen in the future.

1. John 6:39
   This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. John 6:40
   And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. John 6:44
   No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. John 6:54
   Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. John 11:24
   Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. John 12:48
   He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
   
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Yes, the last day. I really appreciate your post because I, myself, have posted the exact same thing several times in the past. There are a lot of examples that show the resurrection happens on the last day, and I argued that scripture does not specify the last day of something in particular, so it must be the last day of all days.

However, I've since come to realize that these verses all refer to the last day of the age, which was in 70 AD. Here's my logic:

1. The old covenant ended in 70 AD
2. The old covenant caused sin and sin caused death
3. There is now, no more death
4. If death has been destroyed, that requires all to have been resurrected

I don't think we can understate the importance of earth's transition from the old covenant to the new. It was our transition from night to day, from darkness to light, from death to life.

Revelation 22:5 says "there will be no more night". This was referring to death. There will be no more death. In the context of this analogy, we can understand that without night, we are now on the last day, because days only end when the night comes. And yes, Revelation 22:5 has already happened. We know this, because we know that death has been defeated, so there is no more "night".

 

[Davy]

Yes, the last day. I really appreciate your post because I, myself, have posted the exact same thing several times in the past. There are a lot of examples that show the resurrection happens on the last day, and I argued that scripture does not specify the last day of something in particular, so it must be the last day of all days.

However, I've since come to realize that these verses all refer to the last day of the age, which was in 70 AD. Here's my logic:

1. The old covenant ended in 70 AD
2. The old covenant caused sin and sin caused death
3. There is now, no more death
4. If death has been destroyed, that requires all to have been resurrected

I don't think we can understate the importance of earth's transition from the old covenant to the new. It was our transition from night to day, from darkness to light, from death to life.

Revelation 22:5 says "there will be no more night". This was referring to death. There will be no more death. In the context of this analogy, we can understand that without night, we are now on the last day, because days only end when the night comes. And yes, Revelation 22:5 has already happened. We know this, because we know that death has been defeated, so there is no more "night".

Your stated realization defies Biblical doctrine as written. Today, there still is... death, flesh death! So even the prophesied "second death" of Revelation 20 has yet to come still. Revelation 20 reveals death is only destroyed AFTER Christ's FUTURE "thousand years" that ONLY begins AFTER His future 2nd coming. That is how far in ERROR your theory is.

 

[claninja]

When Jesus sad 'this generation' it was not referring to that generation of an average 40 years,

In the context of the Olivet Discourse, the evidence indicates that the Greek word γένεα (genea) means “generation,” understood as a group of people living at the same time.

• Thayer’s Greek Lexicon defines genea as “the whole multitude of men living at the same time Matthew 24:34"
• BDAG (Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich) expands this definition as “The sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at the same time and freq. defined in terms of specific characteristics, generation, contemporaries; Jesus looks upon the whole contemporaneous generation of Israel as a generation confronting him; Mt 11:16, 12:41F, 23:36, 24:34"

 

[Davy]

In the context of the Olivet Discourse, the evidence indicates that the Greek word γένεα (genea) means “generation,” understood as a group of people living at the same time.

• Thayer’s Greek Lexicon defines genea as “the whole multitude of men living at the same time Matthew 24:34"
• BDAG (Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich) expands this definition as “The sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at the same time and freq. defined in terms of specific characteristics, generation, contemporaries; Jesus looks upon the whole contemporaneous generation of Israel as a generation confronting him; Mt 11:16, 12:41F, 23:36, 24:34"

But that is still... not how to interpret what Jesus said there. Whether a generation means to a certain age is not what that Olivet prophecy is about...

Matt 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

Jesus was NOT speaking of the generation at His 1st coming.

Jesus was speaking of the LAST generation that will "see all these things". So what's that about? See all what "things"?

Well, what things was Lord Jesus giving the Church there upon the Mount of Olives?

Jesus was giving the 7 main SIGNS of the end that are to happen leading up to His future 2nd coming. Those are actually the SEALS of Revelation 6.

The FINAL generation on earth will see all those SIGNS of the end. That is why He said that final generation will not pass until they see all these SIGNS of the end (verses 33 & 34).

Some try to change the timing about that final generation, attempting to falsely spread those SIGNS over a period of the Church era, especially when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D.

The destruction of the future 3rd temple today's Jews plan to build in Jerusalem will provide a DUAL FULFILLMENT of that not one stone atop another SIGN on the day of Christ's future 2nd coming. As of today, the Western Wall of huge stones still stand at the temple mount, along with the stones of the Dome of The Rock Muslim shrine on the temple mount.

The rest of the SIGNS Jesus gave there in Matthew 24 follow the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of His Book of Revelation, with Jesus' future return on the 7th Trumpet, 7th Seal, and 7th Vial.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes, the last day. I really appreciate your post because I, myself, have posted the exact same thing several times in the past. There are a lot of examples that show the resurrection happens on the last day, and I argued that scripture does not specify the last day of something in particular, so it must be the last day of all days.

However, I've since come to realize that these verses all refer to the last day of the age, which was in 70 AD. Here's my logic:

1. The old covenant ended in 70 AD
2. The old covenant caused sin and sin caused death
3. There is now, no more death
4. If death has been destroyed, that requires all to have been resurrected

I don't think we can understate the importance of earth's transition from the old covenant to the new. It was our transition from night to day, from darkness to light, from death to life.

Revelation 22:5 says "there will be no more night". This was referring to death. There will be no more death. In the context of this analogy, we can understand that without night, we are now on the last day, because days only end when the night comes. And yes, Revelation 22:5 has already happened. We know this, because we know that death has been defeated, so there is no more "night".

About death , people still die.
They die everyday, millions of people are born, live a while, but they all do die.
Death being no more is at the end as death is the last enemy to be destroyed.
Since people still die today, the last enemy death has not been destroyed, therefore it is not the end yet.

Christ is the first fruits of those who have 'fallen asleep' in the Lord
Christ died, God raised Him up in a bodily resurrection
Believers who die in the Lord, their life is hidden with Christ in God, we were raised spiritually so that our home is now in heaven, we are no longer of this earth.
When Christ appears (second coming) we will appear with Him in our own glorified body, one like He has,

This Christ as our risen hope, has to do with our own resurrection, being give a glorified body like He has.

1 Cor 15

The Risen Christ, Our Hope​

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

The Last Enemy Destroyed​

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

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Obviously, we have not appeared with Christ yet as we do not have glorified bodies yet as we are still Hidden with Christ.
Colossians 2
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

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Now about the glorious liberation of the creation, that has also not yet happened. But it will when God makes all things new, new earth, new heavens, at Christ's return
Right now, still, the creation is subjected to futility, it waits for the revealing of the glorified sons of God in the new earth.
Creation fell, creation will be fixed, it is still a fallen world today. Evil terrible things take place on the earth today.
We DO NOT SEE it today but we hope for it with perseverance.

Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, the last day. I really appreciate your post because I, myself, have posted the exact same thing several times in the past. There are a lot of examples that show the resurrection happens on the last day, and I argued that scripture does not specify the last day of something in particular, so it must be the last day of all days.

However, I've since come to realize that these verses all refer to the last day of the age, which was in 70 AD. Here's my logic:

1. The old covenant ended in 70 AD
2. The old covenant caused sin and sin caused death
3. There is now, no more death
4. If death has been destroyed, that requires all to have been resurrected

I don't think we can understate the importance of earth's transition from the old covenant to the new. It was our transition from night to day, from darkness to light, from death to life.

Revelation 22:5 says "there will be no more night". This was referring to death. There will be no more death. In the context of this analogy, we can understand that without night, we are now on the last day, because days only end when the night comes. And yes, Revelation 22:5 has already happened. We know this, because we know that death has been defeated, so there is no more "night".

People are still dying, so your view can't be taken seriously at all. Are you a full preterist?

 

[MatthewG]

I've found that a generation begin 40 years of time is simply based on this line.

“The LORD was angry with Israel and made them wander in the wilderness for forty years until the entire generation that sinned in the LORD’s sight had died.

Over time after Jesus Christ and his Ascension, John wrote concerning Jesus and his return, and Israel would become known as "Spiritually Egypt"