Spiritually called Sodom and Egypt?

[VictoryinJesus]

Sometimes I listen to atheist and christians debate. First, I want to hear what others think especially those who have grown up differently from me, but also, i think how would I respond. One questions posed was concerning the contradictions in the eye witness accounts.

Here are two accounts skeptics believe show a contradiction. They asked the question of whether Jesus was taken to Egypt or was he taken to the temple. They felt it’s a contradiction.

But to me…why can’t it be both, or the same in regards to Revelation 11:8 and “Egypt”

In Revelation 11:8, the Bible says, "the city that is figuratively called \"Sodom\" and \"Egypt\"" is Jerusalem. This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Matthew 2:15-18 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. [16] Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. [17] Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

How significant is “This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression”? Especially with
Luke 2:33-35 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. [34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Is there a contradiction, or are they the same with regards to the bondage of death “Egypt”, Sodom, or “Jerusalem” Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sometimes I listen to atheist and christians debate. First, I want to hear what others think especially those who have grown up differently from me, but also, i think how would I respond. One questions posed was concerning the contradictions in the eye witness accounts.

Here are two accounts skeptics believe show a contradiction. They asked the question of whether Jesus was taken to Egypt or was he taken to the temple. They felt it’s a contradiction.

But to me…why can’t it be both, or the same in regards to Revelation 11:8 and “Egypt”

In Revelation 11:8, the Bible says, "the city that is figuratively called \"Sodom\" and \"Egypt\"" is Jerusalem. This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Matthew 2:15-18 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. [16] Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. [17] Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

How significant is “This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression”? Especially with
Luke 2:33-35 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. [34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Is there a contradiction, or are they the same with regards to the bondage of death “Egypt”, Sodom, or “Jerusalem” Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Joesph took May and Jesus to Egypt and returned approx. 3 years later.

Jesus was presentedin teh temple on teh eigth day as was prescribed by the Mosaic Law. Literal, historical and reliable.

 

[Jay Ross]

Joesph took May and Jesus to Egypt and returned approx. 3 years later.

Jesus was presented in the temple on the eighth day as was prescribed by the Mosaic Law. Literal, historical and reliable.

You have never critically considered the chronology surrounding the Birth of Christ.

Jesus was only a few days old when Joseph took both Mary and Jesus down to Egypt and when he had heard that Herod had died, he returns to Bethlehem but decide to return to Nazareth instead. It is from Nazareth that Joseph and Mary go to the Temple in Jerusalem after waiting for the prescribed 40 days to pass as was required by the law for a woman who has had a male child. They then return to their city Nazareth.

If you want a chronological understanding of the event around Christ's birth, then PM me and tell me your email address and I will forward my chronological document of Christ's birth for you to read.

 

[quietthinker]

Sometimes I listen to atheist and christians debate. First, I want to hear what others think especially those who have grown up differently from me, but also, i think how would I respond. One questions posed was concerning the contradictions in the eye witness accounts.

Here are two accounts skeptics believe show a contradiction. They asked the question of whether Jesus was taken to Egypt or was he taken to the temple. They felt it’s a contradiction.

But to me…why can’t it be both, or the same in regards to Revelation 11:8 and “Egypt”

In Revelation 11:8, the Bible says, "the city that is figuratively called \"Sodom\" and \"Egypt\"" is Jerusalem. This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Matthew 2:15-18 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. [16] Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. [17] Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

How significant is “This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression”? Especially with
Luke 2:33-35 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. [34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Is there a contradiction, or are they the same with regards to the bondage of death “Egypt”, Sodom, or “Jerusalem” Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

It is not uncommon for the scriptures to apply literally and figuratively. The scriptures use a physical reality to highlight a spiritual reality.
Jesus' parables are cases in point.
Those who have seen Jesus, get it. Those who haven't and argue it, highlight their ignorance to their shame.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is not uncommon for the scriptures to apply literally and figuratively. The scriptures use a physical reality to highlight a spiritual reality.
Jesus' parables are cases in point.
Those who have seen Jesus, get it. Those who haven't and argue it, highlight their ignorance to their shame.

It’s sad though because I’ve been there too, right where they are.

 

[quietthinker]

It’s sad though because I’ve been there too, right where they are.

People make their choices at any given time VJ. Even Jesus was unable to bring them around.....because of their choices.....not because of the lack of evidence.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

People make their choices at any given time VJ. Even Jesus was unable to bring them around.....because of their choices.....not because of the lack of evidence.

That opens those debates over choice, free will, who chooses, and all those topics that there’s already a lot of threads already on. I would not say Jesus was unable to bring them around. But that he was able to bring them around. Even when he instructed this in Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

For me it all goes back to whether an understanding gives room for boasting in men where some men were good enough or willing to make the right choice. Some don’t.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Why is the word sometimes translated spiritual and sometimes it is mystical. What is the difference in Spiritual and mystical?

 

[quietthinker]

That opens those debates over choice, free will, who chooses, and all those topics that there’s already a lot of threads already on. I would not say Jesus was unable to bring them around. But that he was able to bring them around. Even when he instructed this in Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

For me it all goes back to whether an understanding gives room for boasting in men where some men were good enough or willing to make the right choice. Some don’t.

Here is an example of what Jesus wanted but was unable to achieve VJ.

Matthew 23:37
'O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate.'

 

[Scott Downey]

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Why is the word sometimes translated spiritual and sometimes it is mystical. What is the difference in Spiritual and mystical?

G4153 - pneumatikōs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

G4153 - πνευματικῶς pneumatikōs, pnyoo-mat-ik-oce'; adverb from ; non-physically, i.e. divinely, figuratively:—spiritually.

www.blueletterbible.org

STRONGS G4153:
πνευματικῶς, adverb, spiritually (Vulg. spiritaliter): i. e. by the aid of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 2:14 (1 Corinthians 2:13 WH marginal reading); in a sense apprehended only by the aid of the Divine Spirit, i. e. in a hidden or mystical sense, Revelation 11:8. Its opposite σαρκικῶς in the sense of literally is used by Justin Martyr, dialog contra Trypho, c. 14, p. 231 d.

 

[Scott Downey]

Calling the great city Egypt and Sodom is not a favorable attribution is it.
So spiritually an evil place.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

 

[Earburner]

Calling the great city Egypt and Sodom is not a favorable attribution is it.
So spiritually an evil place.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [d]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

Through the updated Ammillenial view, I love these scriptures, because it spiritually reveals the fulness of John the Baptist and Jesus in their Joint ministry for 3.5 years as the two witnesses of Zech. 4:14. John the Baptist for 6 mos. and Jesus for 3 years (1260 days). Together they literally are the fulfillment of Zech. 4:14.
Being the only two who were ever physically born with the Holy Spirit of God, there are none who were ever more anointed then those two.

7 When they [John and Jesus] finish their testimony [the witness of John- saying who Jesus is; the witness of Jesus- saying who God the Father is], the beast [satan's Roman Emp.] that ascends out of the bottomless pit [this present earth being satan's endless grave] will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street [all in Jerusalem will know of their death] of the great city [Jerusalem] which spiritually is called Sodom [symbolic of being in bondage to sin] and Egypt [symbolic of being held in captivity], where also OUR Lord was crucified [an interjection to clarify the name of the great city].

9 Then those [a general number at the location] from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.
[Those who were present at Jesus' crucifixion then fully understood his resurrection, whereby death could not hold them].

10 And those who dwell on the earth [who believe in Jesus] will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another [Christmas is celebrated around the world], because these two prophets tormented [called to repentance] those who dwell on the earth.

 

[ScottA]

Sometimes I listen to atheist and christians debate. First, I want to hear what others think especially those who have grown up differently from me, but also, i think how would I respond. One questions posed was concerning the contradictions in the eye witness accounts.

Here are two accounts skeptics believe show a contradiction. They asked the question of whether Jesus was taken to Egypt or was he taken to the temple. They felt it’s a contradiction.

But to me…why can’t it be both, or the same in regards to Revelation 11:8 and “Egypt”

In Revelation 11:8, the Bible says, "the city that is figuratively called \"Sodom\" and \"Egypt\"" is Jerusalem. This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Matthew 2:15-18 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. [16] Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. [17] Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

How significant is “This symbolic association with Sodom and Egypt is due to Jerusalem's perceived wickedness and the suffering it inflicted on God's people, echoing the themes of Sodom's destruction and Egypt's oppression”? Especially with
Luke 2:33-35 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. [34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Is there a contradiction, or are they the same with regards to the bondage of death “Egypt”, Sodom, or “Jerusalem” Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Those devils might just as well have sighted a contradiction of referring to Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God ("Is He then a lamb--a baby sheep?").

But no, God has rather revealed His hand, His method, or code of speaking in parables. Which the blind simply do not perceive.

 

[Earburner]

Revelation 11:8 Lexicon: And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Why is the word sometimes translated spiritual and sometimes it is mystical. What is the difference in Spiritual and mystical?

1. "Mystical" sounds like "magical" which can be related to the the speculative activities by "sooth-sayers" and the like.

2. "Spiritual" sounds like "Spirit", which can be related to the discerning activities by the "Holy Spirit".

Therefore the word "spiritually" is the correct word choice.
God would have us to remember and know that Jerusalem had become extremely sinful like Sodom, and also like Egypt it was making souls to be in bondage/captivity.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Mystical" sounds like "magical" which can be related to the the speculative activities by "sooth-sayers" and the like.

"Spiritual" sounds like "Spirit", which can be related to the discerning activities by the "Holy Spirit".

Agree when I think of mystical …I think of a magic.

Why can’t both be spiritual though …where one is false, for show, and without power? And One is with real power? Is mystical that which is of the spirit of the flesh? <for gain towards lust, greed, and notoriety? Not to be ugly but for example Kenneth Copeland speaking in tongues?

Yes, I see your point also in “sooth-sayers” traveling salesmen with snake remedies also? Rosary beads although I do realize they give people comfort. Just asking… I see that done by the spirit of the flesh as mystical. And that done by the Spirit of God is Life.